Thai-BurmaLine:History & Heritage

[airlana]

"Railway Wonders of the World" volume 4 by Winchester & Allen, published 1936 has chapters for both Thailand and Burma.

Might be of interest for our rail fans.

Thailand
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/l...r/ThaiRail.htm
and Burma here
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/l.../BurmaRail.htm

airlana
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[airlana]

This is one of the better sites around for info on River Kwai WW2

Heaps of photos [some I've not seen before]

http://www.hellfirepass.com

and probably the best map of the Railway

http://www.hellfirepass.com/maps_his...h_railway.html

All in all, it's great stuff

airlana
.

[GWR]

Thanks to Robchina for this. To be honest, I haven't posted this for the experts; who've probably long known about this link. I was just very taken by the pictures of steam locos negotiating the bridge and the trestles, and think that occasional non-expert visitors to this forum would enjoy them. Note that you will have to scroll down quite a long way to the bottom of the reports to see the pics:-
http://www.steam.dial.pipex.com/trains/thai1.htm
And one taster pic:-
http://www.steam.dial.pipex.com/trai...pics/kwai5.jpg
Any chance of getting the [img] function turned on in this forum?

[dick]

Very good pictures.
If you collect pictures like this: I've made also "steam" foto's in november/december 1973, also some details of coaches during my trip along the Birma-Siam Railway. O.a. in Kanburi and Lum Sum and Wan Po of course.
Do you know why the place Wan Po sometimes is mentioned Tam Krasaer?

[GWR]

Originally Posted by dick

Do you know why the place Wan Po sometimes is mentioned Tam Krasaer?

Not familiar with the area, by it occurs to me that a 'Tham' (most usual English spelling) is a cave. That would figure, given that we know Kanchanaburi has many caves. So perhaps 'Krasaer Cave' or 'Krasae Cave'. 'Krasae' might mean something like 'stream'.

Hopefully Khun Wisaruth will come along and blow this primitive translation right out of the water.

On a related subject, I seem to remember talk a few years back that rail and cave explorers had found a cave near the Death Railway into which a temporary spur had been laid. Apparently, they there found a loco that had been placed there to protect it against bombing raids.

Or is this just an urban myth? I seem to remember hearing it on BBC World Service

[ncr]

Tham Krasae is indeed Krasae Cave - a fairly well-known one, right next to the famous wooden viaduct. Wang Po is the name of the nearest station (within walking distance, a mere 100-200m). The cave was used to accommodate POWs (or as a field hospital, I think) during the war.

Nowadays houses some Buddha images, and a visit to it is part of most Kanchanaburi package daytours involving waterfalls, a ride on a section of the Death Railway, and the like.

As for the story with the hidden loco, I never heard about anything like that and it seems like an urban myth to me..... But then I don't know. At least it was not found in Tham Krasae!

[von Hirschhorn]

Indeed; Tham Krasae, a lovely cave easily reached by walking over the trestle, an adventure on it self for a complete different perspective. Concerning the hidden loco lets wait until I have a look at my newspaper archive, there are a lot of myths about the Burma railway. On can certainly remember the hunt for hidden gold or other treasure left behind by the Japanese (also in a cave). A few years ago there was a lot of digging with no result.
Far from a rumor is the fact that during the daytime engines where hidden out of sight for the bombers, although I hardly can believe they left one behind without any notice?
On the other hand if it's an urban myth, leave it that way, fairytales keeps the spirit alive.

[airlana]

Some time ago Kasetsart University had an interesting article on their website

"Our First Engagement was in War: The Thai-Burma Railway"

A copy of the article is here

http://members.optusnet.com.au/airlana/Chapter3.htm

.

[qualtrough]

I drove Rob out to Kanchanburi in my old Land Rover on that 1999 trip to chase the loco from the city to the bridge, so it was at least partly my fault that we were unable to catch up to the loco as it made its way from the city to the end of the line.As we watched it negotiate the series of bridges I recall that the loco was making a very loud knock as if a bearing was bad or in severe need of lubrication. Rob now lives in China and is expanding into industrial steam (rice mills) as working rail steam declines.

John Baker

[GWR]

It appears that about 70,000 Malayans of all races were used to build the Death Railway from Thailand to Burma; and the lesser known Chumphon-Khao Fachi Railway. Of these about 40,000 perished. This link shows a 2002 project which is trying to get the present Malaysian Government to honor these victims and 'help' survivors who are still living in Thailand. This page has several scanned 'New Straits Times' articles based on interviews with Malayan survivors who were still living near the Death Railway in 2002. After following this link, further click the 'Press Coverage' link on the left.A series of links will appear for individual article and image scans:-
http://www.ourheroes.com.au/strutMedia_Web/master.asp

Perhaps someone can inform us if Malaysia has taken further steps to honor these victims since 2002.

[GWR]

Thai-Burma Railway - David Boggett - Faculty of Humanities, Kyoto Seika University
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Outdoors/...hai-burma.html

[GWR]

Asian Romusha: The Silenced Voice of History - David Boggett - Faculty of Humanities, Kyoto Seika University
http://www.kyoto-seika.ac.jp/johokan...no20/david.pdf

[Wisarut]

The Death Railway was originate as the logistic line for the JIA troops in Burma by Gen. Hiroike (the Staf of the Staffs of the 2nd Military Railway HQ), despite of the STRONG opposition from Supreme Commander HQ in Tokyo. Both Thai State Railway Dept
and IJA said even the British Railway Engineers had surveyed on that route via Kanchaburi ... but they
REFUSEDto work on that route due to the fact that thare are 2 mountain ranges impeding the construction

However, the IJA Southeast Asia Army Headquarter would pushthis project at all cost. They pointed out that there were 8 routes to go between BKk and Rangoon.

1. BKK - Chiang Mai - Kengtung - Mandalay
2. BKK - Chiang Mai - Mae Hong Son - Tongoo
3. BKK - Photsanuloke - Mae Sod - Maulalieng
[This is the route preferred by Royal Siamese Railway due to the ease of construction ... but
IJA want shorter routes ... but it was NOT approved by Prince Purajat when the route to Chiang Mai has not been DONE yet.]

4. Ban Pong - Kanchanaburi - 3 pagoda Pass - Thanbyusayat [the route preferred by IJA due to the shortest route]

5. Ban Pong - Kanchaburi - Bong Tee Checkpoint - Tavoy [this is the route recently preferred by Thai merchant after the controversial Ye- Tavoy has becomes a reality in 2000's ]

6. Prachuab Khirikhan - Tennissarim - Mergui
[the is the route preferred by Prince Purajat (the firstSimaese Director of Royal Siamese Railway -> 1917-1928) even though British governemtn rejected due to the fact that ther was NO rail link between Ye and Mergui]

7. Chumporn - Ranong - Rangoon [the route between rangoon and Ranogn willbe done by shipping]

8. [Sea route] Saigon - Shonan - Penang - Rangoon.

The sea Route between Rangoon to Saigon via Shonan
is the most dangerous route ... too many risks from submarines and bombs.

Route 1 is the longest land route ... Generally droppeddown at Lampang and then then a truck to Kengtung via Chiang Rai ... This route wasalso used by Thai Armed Forces which went to Shan State

Route 2 was not becoem a reality until Novemebr - December 1943 ... after the road from Chaing Maito Mae Hong Son was done by an engineering battalion from the 15th Division.

Route 3 has been used as a commercial route for a logn time ... but it is necesaary to pass through many gorges and mountains ... ONLY the dirt track between phisanuloke and Maesod via Tak and Sukhothai is needed despite of the APPEAL from Royal State Railway who wish to get the railway track from Phisanuloke to Maesod via Tak and Sukhothai.

Route 4 is the shortest route of all ... it has been strategic routes since the days of Ayutthya -> Ava Kingdom had used this 3 pagoda route to invade Ayutthaya at least 16 battles 2 rival kingdoms.

Route 6 was done as a dirt road by the detached the 161st Infantry Battalion in December 1944 as the escape route.... eventhoug it is antoehr wish list of Royal State Railway.

IJA has decided to construct the railway route from Ban Pong to Thanbyusayat via Kanchanaburi (route 4) as the main route for C56 locos while construct the route from Chumporn to Ranong with a terminal at La Un Canal as the provision railway route.

Ref: http://www.rotfaithai.com/modules.ph...ewtopic&t=2393

[GWR]

Route No 7 Chumphon - Ranong is further discussed in the following thread:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bang...=6300#post6300

Route No. 8 'Shonan' ('Light of the South') indicates the Japanese name imposed on Singapore during the IJA's World War II occupation. There is an interesting Museum on the Japanese occupation on Singapore's Sentosa Island. This museum completely dispels any myths that the Japanese were relatively benign occupiers. Worth a visit!:-
http://reference.allrefer.com/countr...ngapore27.html

[GWR]

Interesting Page on the Death Railway with a lot of old photos:-

http://www.2-26bn.org/pow.htm

And this map which shows that the railway actually crossed the border three times at 'Three Pagodas Pass:-

http://www.2-26bn.org/3-Crossings.jpg

In general, the railway follows the top of the mountain range between Thailand & Burma. However a special variation was made at The 3 Pagodas. The 3 Pagodas mark the scene of a battle between the Thais & Burmese hundred of years ago and as such hold special significance to the Thai.

For some political reason the Thais got the Japanese to build the railway up and over the hill beside the 3 Pagodas, rather than taking the sensible route following the contours around the hill.

Thanks to Rod Beattie for this information.

And a Map of the Death Railway with POW Camps, Cemeteries & Stations:-

http://www.2-26bn.org/TBRail.jpg