How many countries?
 

Sort of a continuation of this thread.

Notes:

1. Let's count only independent nations.

2. Always adhere to the current status (as of early 2005), e.g. -

*Supposed you have been to Slovenia and Croatia when they were still part of Yugoslavia, you may of course count them as two separate countries - whereas Yugoslavia itself has to be discarded, for it doesn't exist anymore.
*Hongkong and Macao count as China.
*If you visited Brunei or East Timor before they became independent, of course they still count.
*Countries that have ceased to exist, such as the German Democratic Republic, don't count.

Pretty simple and straightforward, eh?

3. In my personal opinion, just landing in a country for a connecting flight doesn't count; you have at least to pass through immigration.

Good idea Nil.. and hey what about big countries like US, Canada, Australia?
Should the individual State, province and territory in those countries count as well? ;)

No, sorry, Pas! I am afraid that's against common standards....... :)

I guess people from Europe (like myself) are at advantage here. We have so many tiny countries there, all of which are fully independent nations in their own right. And most citizens of Western European countries use to travel around a lot in those, starting from their childhood. And nowadays it's getting easier and easier - no more border controls in many cases, international high-speed rail connections, etc. So it's easy for us to 'collect' quite a lot of countries without too much of an effort!

An easy way to sum up your total:

http://www.world66.com/myworld66/visitedCountries

Although their rules aren't quite the same as ncr's. I get 54 countries by the World66 method of counting, but I have to substract 4 non-independent oddballs to get the ncr-style total of 50. I have to say I like World66's list more, surely visiting places like Bermuda or the Northern Mariana Islands deserves at least some points for effort...?

And yes, being from Europe sure helps rack up the countries, although South-East Asia ain't that bad for this either :D

Ah, Mr. Jpatokal again (I knew it!)....... *envy* :D

I have 33 so far...... Would at least like to visit 50 before I die. 17 short of the goal.....

A colleague of a friend of mine collects countries as a hobby -- and he's now been to every single one plus a few more, including not just Antarctica but the North Pole (I have a postcard!). I'm not sure how he does it, but I imagine having a diplomatic passport helps...

He's not alone: there's a whole Travelers Century Club for people who have racked up over a hundred. Their list is even more liberal than World66's though, just about every territory and island (except Phuket!) is separately listed.

Care to tell us the names of those?

Bermuda, Northern Mariana Islands and Palestinian Authority are not independent. South Korea I left out because changing planes twice at Incheon doesn't really count.

Personally, I'd add the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus -- any Greeks in the audience, please read that as The Area Illegally Occupied by the Turkish Army -- to this list, but World66 doesn't recognize it either...

And hey! Who's the other 46+'er?

Thanks for the links Jpat. I found another link from that site:
http://www.mosttraveledman.com/

and this:
At age 39, Charles Veley of San Francisco has visited 488, or 85% of the 570 countries, territories, autonomous regions, enclaves, geographically separated island groups, and major states and provinces of the world.

Based on this, he claims to be the world's Most Traveled Person. :eek: :eek:

I can more or less understand the rest, but how come you went to the Northern Marianas???

Khun NCR,

Nice hobby indeed, many years already I make my own list with more or less the same rules. 55 until today but just travelling to a new country for the sake of a list only, no!

55 means countries only, seperate parts / destinations e.g. Malasyia: Sabah / Sawarak or islands* e.g. Koh Samui, not include.

* What to do with islands connected by dam or bridge - e.g. Penang - to the main land.

You can? I didn't think Gaza and Northern Cyprus were among the tourism hotspots of the world... but anyway, Saipan (capital of the Northern Marianas) is the Japanese equivalent of the Canary Islands and a popular winter getaway.

Daily trivia: on entry into Saipan, you get a stamp in your passport that says simply "CNMI". I wonder how many people seeing that will recognize the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands by abbreviation alone :D

No, what sort of travelling experience is that anyway, when states and their cultures are reduced to mere numbers on a list......? Not in the true spirit of "visiting" a country.

Most traveled man
 

Interesting, Pas!

The story of his endeavour is here.

On the site Pas linked to, when you register, you can mark all the territories you have visited from their list. It has been substantially extended from the Travelers Century Club's 317 areas......... to a whopping 570! According to that one, I score a 40 after all (the ratio between visited and unvisited gets worse, though). It would also allow Jpatokal to count his 4 'oddballs' (plus a couple more).

As with any list, a few gripes remain, e.g.:
-Why should one still distinguish between North and South Vietnam?
-Or, if US/Canadian/Australian federal states count separately, why not also German Bundesländer and Swiss cantons (which also have a fair share of autonomy/their own legislation)?

Which only shows that it is virtually impossible to compile a definitive list of all separate sociocultural and geopolitical entities on the earth's surface. Hence, I'd rather stick with my 200 or so internationally recognized independent states. (Still certain problems: e.g. what about Taiwan?)

By the way, some fascinating stuff about exclaves and 'tripoints' (where borders of three countries meet) here:
the Great Central European Borderland Expedition.
Border Photos

^ There was a IHT article last year on the same global travel club, seems to be a few well funded and adventurous types with time to spare. Yes I also think large Federations (AUS, US, Can etc) have to be counted as one but a Quebecian, Hawaian may disagree with this as definately would have a Tajik or Urkrainian during the time of the USSR. And yes the Swiss canton system is much more autonomous argueably almost to the extent that effectively you should count then sperately.

For definitive definition on statehood and states one needs to look at International Court of Justice (ICJ) jurisprudence on the matter and relevant UN committee decisions. Obviously the whole problem is the political nature of the process and consequences that go with recognising statehood and new states.

I would include Palestine as a country, occupied at that, if one takes into account the numerous UN GA resolutions on the matter recognising the territorial integrity of Palestine. Similarly the Indo. invasion in late 74 and occupation of East Timor was never recognised by the UN and many resolutions in the late 70s/early 80s did not recognise it's incorporation into Indonesia by Presidential decree. Only a few countires, Aust. included, gave the incorporation limited recognition.

One does not need to have a functioning central authority for statehood to be maintained (look at previously collapsed states such as Somalia which have regional war-lord authorities but still administer territory) although it is one of the key elements that defines statehood. The case of Tibet is perhaps unfortunately different quite different from Palestine as there has been little in the form of UN resolutions on the matter for obvious reasons and the matter has little potential redress in world legal forae.

Also, it would not be unreasonable to argue that provinces such as West Papua (incorporated into Indo by a UN auspiced 'Act of Free Choice' in 67') or Karenni and Shan states in Burma have a strong legal basis under international law to be granted independence should the political opportunity arise.

The Shan and the Karen joined Burma only after signing terms for independence (Poylang (spelling?) Agreement ) with the British post WWII which was to follow a decolonisation process that was never fulfilled due to the Burmen independence war against the British. The West Papua incorporation is very dodgy under international law and regarded by many as a big mistake by the UN which requires rectification.


Anyway, I'm up to 44 but I am counting one country that I am going to in a few days....