DeepSouth:Chin Peng pines for Perak?

[GWR]

For visa chasers who go to Kota Bahru in Kelantan. If you can possibly manage it, take yourself over the river bridge to Wakaf Bahru and beyond a kilometer or two. You will begin to run into the Thai villages mentioned in this article, and some good restaurants. These villages feel very like Thailand, but their Thai sounds rather old-fashioned and their food is just a tad different from Thai food elsewhere. Kelantan Thai food is well-thought of by the other groups in the state; although of course, some of them aren't always officially sanctioned to eat it. Alcohol rules are a bit less strict in these areas too. I'm told that Kelantan folk of all groups are considered the hardest Malaysians to please in culinary matters.

http://www.cpamedia.com/articles/0107_01/

[GWR]

One of my local informants has worked in the border region and had considerable interaction with the Tak Bai Thais and the Malay neighbors. He confirms the sentiment that the two groups in Kelantan have found ways to live sensibly together (if slightly apart) in relatively close proximity.

Unfortunately, (for me) the following link is mainly in Bhasa Melayu. However, Manit clocks up some English language quotes half-way down the page; and there is a bibliography at page bottom with English language references.

I also get the impression we may have some posters here who are familiar with 'Malay':-

http://www.geocities.com/manitc6/mikro.html

I also hope to rediscover a link to an article about Kedah Thais. Those farmhouses and paddies you see alongside the Expressway in the Alor Star are often owned by people whoi might be labelled 'Kedah Thais'. They too have their own distinctive culinary style; and a form of Pasa Thai which is considered rather dated and formal by Thai Nationals.

[GWR]

This might provide some interesting background until I rediscover an interesting (mapped!) website on Thai Communities & temples in Kedah:-
http://www.myfareast.org/Malaysia/kedah/

[GWR]

And here's that research website on Thai Communities & Temples in Kedah State Malaysia. Maps & tabular data are page bottom. There also seems to be some information on the Siamese in Perlis State:-
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~rnishii/South_Thai/working_paper/kuroda001.html

http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~rnishii/South_Thai/working_paper/img/map1.gif

[GWR]

http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~rnishii/South_Thai/working_paper/nishii001.html
http://www.aa.tufs.ac.jp/~rnishii/South_Thai/working_paper/horstmann002.html

[GWR]

Asia Research Institute
Working Paper Series
No. 32
Origins of Malay Muslim “Separatism” in
Southern Thailand
Thanet Aphornsuvan
Assistant Professor; Director, Southeast Asian Studies Program,
Thammasat University, Bangkok
October 2004

http://www.ari.nus.edu.sg/docs/wps/wps04_032.pdf

[slim3811]

Does anyone have a copy of Teeuw and Wyatt's English translation of the Hikayat Patani that they would be willing to sell?

[GWR]

Know who Wyatt is; and know he has an interest in Pattani history. What is 'Hikayat Pattani', so I know what to look for? I'd like to read this myself. I'll let you know if I come across it.

[Ahoerstemeier]

Its this (http://www.anu.edu.au/asianstudies/proudfoot/MCP/N/PAT_bib.html) one. Seems like it is still available from the publisher in the Netherlands at http://www.iias.nl/cgi-bin/kitlv/web_store/web_store.cgi?page=asia-hikayatpatani2.html&cart_id=9277343_3728 - and with 25 Euro its even affordable. If you're in Bangkok, you can also try to look in the library of the Siam Society, there it should be available as well.

[slim3811]

Thanks for the website. I may order it.

Hikayat Patani is 'History of Patani'. David Wyatt and Teeuw did a translation some time ago.

Related reading is History of the Malay Kingdom of Patani by Ibrahim Syukri, also in translation. Last time I was in BKK, it was at Kinokuniya.

If anyone knows of any other books/articles on this region please post. Thanks.

[slim3811]

25 Euros is cheaper than on Amazon, who has it for US$150.00

[GWR]

It's on sale in one Hat-yai bookshop for under 400 Baht. I was tempted to buy it, but the backcover blurb kind of put me off; I'm not much taken with romanticised versions of history surrounding 'royalty'. However, I have to say that Bertil Lintner's review in 'The Irrawaddy' (showcased on today's frontpage of 2Bkk.com) may have changed my mind:-

http://www.irrawaddy.org/aviewer.asp?a=4902&z=106

http://www.irrawaddy.org/articlefiles/4902-PataniCover.gif

[slim3811]

Hello,

Thanks for keeping an eye out for the book. Unfortunately, I am no longer in Thailand (sigh), so I ordered it from the site you posted earlier.

By the way, the Hikayat Patani, while also very much concerned with 'myths', is not the book pictured in the posting. The one in the posting is a more recent translation of one guy's personal version of the history of Pattani. The author of the book in the picture is evidently a Malay of Thai nationality, a civil servant no less, who seems to want to get Malays in the region more conscious of their 'situation'. It is at times very 'propagandistic'.

Thanks. I really enjoy this site, by the way.

[slim3811]

Hello,

Does anyone have any information about pirates (real or mythological, but esp. Chinese) based in the south, say in about the 15th to 18th centuries? I am curious because I came across a story about a Hokkien pirate who later went on to become a ranking official of Pattani under the then Queen. This is related to the Lin Kun Tew legend of Pattani.

Thanks!

[numpty]

there is an interesting piece about pattani

http://www.the-spiceislands.com/News/051105.htm

the book mentioned earlier by syaurki is available on the web somewhere, i've lost the link though :( I think ity was on a .pdf

[GWR]

Given that Siam has collected 'tribute' from huge swathes of the Malay Peninsula over the centuries, it seems appropriate to include an overall link to an illustrated website:The History of the Malay Peninsula:-

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/

[GWR]

From the Online Original Encyclopaedia Brittannica of 1911:-

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SHA_SIV/SINGORA_or_SONGKLA_the_Sangore_.html

Unfortunately, some fancy 'Java' work on this site renders 'cut & pastes' unintelligible. Below is a brief quote. Presumably, 'Malay pirates' refers to the short seige by forces from Kedah & Pattani in 1838. The fortifications that ADMIN refers to are actually on the 'sandspit' bank of the lagoon estuary, at the end of the Tinsulanonda Bridge. I suppose it is just possible that this fortification was also completed around 1850, with a view to fending-off invaders (using boats on the lake) from the direction of Koh Yor. one should remember that the 1838 seige was lifted quite quickly by the arrival of stronger Siamese forces by ship. Their landfall might have taken place on the eastern shore of the lake estuary, so it was probably important to protect the western shore as well:-

Having been more than once sacked by Malay pirates, the town was encircled, about 1850, by a strong wall.

You may also find the entry for 'Siam' & 'Bangkok' interesting; although I note in the latter they have rather confused Thonburi with Bangkok in the wake of King Taksin:-

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SHA_SIV/SIAM_known_to_its_inhabitants_a.html

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/BAI_BAR/BANGKOK.html

[numpty]

interestin website that one.

[jpatokal]

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/SHA_SIV/SIAM_known_to_its_inhabitants_a.html

...but to meet the requirements of modern life, well-planned roads and streets have been constructed in all directions...
:eek: :) :D

[onslaught]

Well, well, makes me wonder some times, if Thailand is not too satisfied with the reduction in national income due to modernization

[GWR]

From the same website as the 'History of the Malay Peninsula':-

http://www.sabrizain.demon.co.uk/malaya/kedah3.htm

Also a WIKI article on the Cannons outside the Defense Ministry in Bangkok:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Patani

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Bangkok_Ministry_of_Defence_Cannon.jpg/200px-Bangkok_Ministry_of_Defence_Cannon.jpg

[Ahoerstemeier]

I just hope that photo actually show the Sri Patani - when I took that photo years ago I wasn't able to read Thai letters yet. I just photographed what looked like the largest one :-)

[Wisarut]

You Said Sri Patani Cannon .... I said "Phraya Tani Cannon" :rolleyes:

[GWR]

I saw the cannon over a year ago when going to the Royal Thai Survey Department close by. Of hand, I think you've got the right one. I seem to remember seeing some English on a sign about Sri Pattani, so maybe that's a fairly new sign.

I'm not too surprised that's one of your pictures. How many articles have contributed to WIKI? Are they paying you?:)

[Ahoerstemeier]

I'm not too surprised that's one of your pictures. How many articles have contributed to WIKI? Are they paying you?:)
I'd love to do paid field trips to Thailand to research for articles and to take photos - but it's all just for my fun. When I discovered Wikipedia years ago Thailand was so badly covered, so I kind of adopted the topic. But luckily there are now several Wikipedian from Thailand as well as some more Farang active, it's much more fun to work together.

I cannot remember if it had an english sign on that cannon - at least it did not have one which told the history of the cannon. I just knew it had that important cannon from Pattani there, but didn't had the name memorized then, and wasn't able to identify the right one with that information alone. And since then I haven't come to the Ministry of Defence anymore, had to do fieldtrips to other places with articles without photo instead :D

BTW: There was no political statement intented by calling that cannon by its Malay name Sri Patani and not the Thai name Phaya Thai :eek:

[Wisarut]

BTW, Now, the Thai translation of "History of Pattani" has becoem avaialble by instructoprs of PSU, Pattani campus. It is now available at Chula Bookstore ;)

[GWR]

Having read Ibrahim Syukri's 'The Malay Kingdom of Patani', I can see that he must have based a lot of it on 'Hikayat Patani'. So it's next on the list to read. Here's some detail about the English translation, although I have a feeling that I've seen a version in local shops from one of the Thai English publishers [Lotus, Orchid, River or Silkworm]. I guess this is the same 'History of Pattani' that Khun Wisaruth is refering to. I'll keep looking for links or local copies of the book in English:-

Teeuw, A. and David K. Wyatt . 1970. Hikayat Patani: The Story of Patani . 2 vols. The Hague : Martinus Nijhoff.

Think you might also enjoy Farish Noor's (;) Wiz, you can always print it off and throw darts at it!) reflections on the historical role of the 'Kris' in the culture of the Malay Peninsula. Follow links at the bottom of the target page to the other two parts of the article:-

http://home.pacbell.net/sika/krisevo1.html

They have a great collection of Kris at 'The Southern Folklore Centre' on Koh Yor Island near Songkhla. Of course, it would be wrong to only associate Kris with Malays. 'Er Indoors' father (a die-hard Buddhist) used to have a really neat 'crinkley' kris until some relative decided to half-inch it.

[goldbug]

Anyone know good sources - people or written work - for this?

Cheers,
goldbug