your favourite rail line/system in the world.?

[mrtfreak]

what's your favourite rail line or system in the world?
for me it would be PUTRA LRT in KL and NEL in singapore.
PUTRA has very nice views and the NEL offers a very smooth ride.

[jpatokal]

Shanghai maglev monorail. It's almost completely pointless and a huge waste of money for a poor country, but hot damn it's cool. :D No picture of the gf in my wallet, instead I'm still carrying my maglev ticket :D :D

To make it usable in addition to cool, they should build a new station in West Shanghai and extend the line to Hangzhou as originally planned, but doesn't look like this will happen very soon :mad:

[ncr]

Not sure, but the Tube in London is certainly cool, despite (or rather because of) its age.......

"Please Mind The Gap"..... (and they really have one, especially in those ancient stations with curved platforms)!

Unlike that negligible (<1 cm?) slit in case of the Bangkok subway, which doesn't really deserve the name 'gap', much less playing the recorded warning message at every stop. The recent crash also showed that this is far from being the main safety issue of concern for the MRT..... :eek:

Apart from that, the Moscow Metro is also nice, of course.

[Pas]

Moscow's subway is my favourite too. The design of the stations (that I've seen in pictures) are simply amazing :cool:

I also like Tokyo's metropolitan rail lines. Everything are colour coded, very user friendly ticketing machines and excellent signage at every stations. The whole system is very easy to figure out.

Then I have to say our skytrain system (eventhough it's not a very extensive network).. it really beats the traffic jam ;)

[mrtfreak]

Not sure, but the Tube in London is certainly cool, despite (or rather because of) its age.......

"Please Mind The Gap"..... (and they really have one, especially in those ancient stations with curved platforms)!

Unlike that negligible (<1 cm?) slit in case of the Bangkok subway, which doesn't really deserve the name 'gap', much less playing the recorded warning message at every stop. The recent crash also showed that this is far from being the main safety issue of concern for the MRT..... :eek:

Apart from that, the Moscow Metro is also nice, of course.
the NEL platrom-train gap is 8cm ;) and so when they announce the station names it goes (for example) little india station.... little india station.... please mind the gap. the best annoucnements are going to be at harbourfront terminal and punggol terminal. they have so much things to say!

it goes like, harbourfront terminal..... harbourfront terminal..... all passengers, please alight at this platform... please mind the gap.... thank you for travelling with SBS Transit! (when upgraded to interchange status, they're gonna add another line to that) :p

[ncr]

Thanks for these insights, mrtfreak. I have travelled on the SMRT, but cannot remember any of the announcements.

Well, for Bangkok the sound preserve goes, "xxxxx Station. Please mind the gap between train and platform." The statement in Thai language is rather different, though: khor chai kwaam ramat rawang khana gao ork jaak rot, which translates to "Please be careful when stepping out of the car." (If I got that correctly.)

Which is not a very precise statement, but makes more sense to me, as the gap is actually so small.

[mrtfreak]

at least they do care about the commuter's safety (not talking about collision wise here). the SMRT (different from SBS Transit) announcements are bland. nest stop, _____. or station name . after SBS Transit came onto the rail operator's board and started the "thank you for traveling with SBS Transit" line, SMRT too started their own thank you line (only after what? 15 years?)

[ncr]

So which parts of the network is SBS running (only the NEL)? Didn't know about that.

Another question: why do they have an 8 cm gap on a new line like that?

[mrtfreak]

i have no idea why its is 8 cm. but i think it has to do with the new trains. these new alstom trains are automatic and travel faster than SMRT's current fleet (90kmph compared to 80kmph). so i tthink they wouldn't want anything to scrape the train or something to that extent. SBS Transit (formerly Singapore Bus Services) runs the North-east line, Sengkang LRT and Punggol LRT lines. SMRT runs the east-west and north-south lines and the bukit panjang LRT (a total waste! what a trun-off system!).

[Yappofloyd]

Getting back to mrtfreak's original query....

Favourite systems travelled;

1) Tokyo - coverage, efficiency and LCD real time info on some new rolling stock. But expensive.
2) Paris - intergration, coverage and neighbourly ..some stns 500-800m. Well priced and generally realiable.
3) Barcelona - well because it is Barca.
4) Lyon - a small network but very efficient and two interconnected funiculars. Well priced.
5) HK - MTR is great.
6) Beunos Aires - very ecceltic atmosphere and lots of buskers and roving sellers of odds and ends

Would love to travel;

1) Moscow - like ncr and pas, station design.
2) Stockholm - takes artistic station design to another level.

Most disliked;

1) London - the tube is overpriced and highly unrealable but improved from 10 yrs ago.
2) Mumbai suburban network - if your feeling highly adventurous and slightly suicidal try getting on/off a packed peak hour Mumbau train.

Favourite Line travelled;

1) Milano to Lyon - great views,
2) Tokyo to Osaka - a quick jaunt, every 20 mins and comfortable,
3) Sydney to Perth (Indian Pacific)- 4 days on a train with mountains, desert and spectacular mesas from one ocean to another.

My wishes;

1) Trans Siberian
2) BKK to Mandalay (perhaps in 20yrs!)

[mrtfreak]

i hear the paris metro is very modern. what is the supplier of the trains there? alstom supplied our NEl trains, and i'm very impressed with them.

[jpatokal]

To make it usable in addition to cool, they should build a new station in West Shanghai and extend the line to Hangzhou as originally planned, but doesn't look like this will happen very soon :mad:

Speaking of maglev extensions ... woohoo (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-01/26/content_2510397.htm)! Err, no wait, oops (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-01/27/content_2513136.htm). So I'll stop holding my breath again. :confused:

[Yappofloyd]

Actually, Paris is obviously a mixture of old and new (L14 - driverless, being the most recent line basically running along the Seine, opened in 98'). Not sure of manufacturer but I like the rolling stock. The M89 design, which you may have heard about, use rubber wheels (L1 & L14) and the new MF2000 to come out this year looks quite good

See , http://www.metro-paris.net/metro.html, for more details.

On the Maglev, I read in Railwayjournal.com last year , 02/12/04, that the Beijing-Shanghai (1300km) Maglev proposal was costed at nearly US$50 Billion so it was obviously canned. However, I do recall recently reading that Shanghai City have approved ext. of the Shanghai airport line closer to the inner city.

[mrtfreak]

thanks for that. an obviously different system from NEL.
www.sbstransit.com.sg
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/sing-ne/

[Yappofloyd]

mrtfreak,

Yes I have used the EW & NS MRT lines but not the NE line. The airport link was most welcome and probably the cheapest in the world for only S$1.20.

Didn't the LRT's in the NE area just open. Have you taken a look at them yet?

[jpatokal]

Didn't the LRT's in the NE area just open. Have you taken a look at them yet?
But of course! See thread here (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=523).

[mrtfreak]

mrtfreak,

Yes I have used the EW & NS MRT lines but not the NE line. The airport link was most welcome and probably the cheapest in the world for only S$1.20.

Didn't the LRT's in the NE area just open. Have you taken a look at them yet?
yeah, the LRT lines in the NE area have had a recent opening.
sengkang phase I (east loop) sengkang station and east loop stations opened on 18 january 2003 (2 years ago)

sengkang phase II (additional 5 stations on west loop) SW4 to SW8 stations opened on 29 january 2005

punggol phase I (5 east loop stations) punggol and PE1 to PE5 stations opened on 29 january 2005 as well.

trains run on AGT system which is different from BP lrt's APM system. trains are much nicer as well. BP's looks like airport shuttles. stations (with exception of SW5 Fernvale) are all of island type, which results in less confusion of which train to take. the lines operate in complete circuits, so that shouldn't be a problem either.

the only exception is when the punggol northern spur line is constructed (future middle line at punggol station currently covered by platform).

there was a bit of confusion at sengkang with the opening of the west loop (which currently operates in a single direction at different times of the day) when they switched travel direction at 3pm.

with regards to airport link, definitely by far the longest travel-time-wise link. ever. and to make things worse, no through service which involves a lot of transfering. cheap, but i suppose that's what you get for cheap. *shrugs*

[jpatokal]

(Somebody move these posts to the Singapore forum...!)

trains run on AGT system which is different from BP lrt's APM system. trains are much nicer as well. BP's looks like airport shuttles. stations (with exception of SW5 Fernvale) are all of island type, which results in less confusion of which train to take.
Why is SW5 dual-platform in the first place? The location doesn't seem any different from the other stations to me.

with regards to airport link, definitely by far the longest travel-time-wise link. ever. and to make things worse, no through service which involves a lot of transfering. cheap, but i suppose that's what you get for cheap. *shrugs*
Needing to change trains three times to get from Terminal 1 to Orchard is really pretty intolerable for an airport link. And it's slooooooow: I tried taking the MRT all the way to Changi a few times back when I lived in Jurong and 60 minutes of bibibibi-zoom-chunk-bibibibi-zoom-chunk is just way too long. :( I once even wrote a letter (and got it published!) in the Straits Times complaining about the termination of through service and stating that this will just reduce ridership further, and that the way to fix it would be to run express trains. I'm quite glad Bangkok is taking a more sensible approach with separate airport express and commuter trains.

And as for cheap, the S$1.20 fare may be cheap, but the S$750 million (that's S$117m/km!) of taxpayer money used to build it certainly was not. Hopefully ridership will go up a bit when T3 opens next door...

[mrtfreak]

(Somebody move these posts to the Singapore forum...!)


Why is SW5 dual-platform in the first place? The location doesn't seem any different from the other stations to me.


Needing to change trains three times to get from Terminal 1 to Orchard is really pretty intolerable for an airport link. And it's slooooooow: I tried taking the MRT all the way to Changi a few times back when I lived in Jurong and 60 minutes of bibibibi-zoom-chunk-bibibibi-zoom-chunk is just way too long. :( I once even wrote a letter (and got it published!) in the Straits Times complaining about the termination of through service and stating that this will just reduce ridership further, and that the way to fix it would be to run express trains. I'm quite glad Bangkok is taking a more sensible approach with separate airport express and commuter trains.

And as for cheap, the S$1.20 fare may be cheap, but the S$750 million (that's S$117m/km!) of taxpayer money used to build it certainly was not. Hopefully ridership will go up a bit when T3 opens next door...
SW5 is a special station. it has side platform so that when the HDbs are built around the station, there will be a link bridge connecting directly to the station on the side of route A (clockwise direction). there will be the entry machines and ticket machines on the bridge as well. if you noticed, there are shutters on the side and the markers to help the visually handicapped have a space that is used for the entry machines. uh, i'll try get something up sometime.

CGA link. i know, my friend had to get to pending station in BP once, after sending a friend off at CGA. so imagine, change once at tanah merah, change again at jurong east, and another time at cck!!!! :mad: it took 11/2 hours at least! and i accompanied her all the way because she didn't know how to get there. gdness! even malaysia is better at this! and what happened to their baggage system thingy there were supposed to have? even the trains don't have luggage racks! and those that do don't serve the line any more! SMRT.... SMRT.... out to make money only. :mad:

[ncr]

CGA link. i know, my friend had to get to pending station in BP once, after sending a friend off at CGA. so imagine, change once at tanah merah, change again at jurong east, and another time at cck!!!! :mad: it took 11/2 hours at least! and i accompanied her all the way because she didn't know how to get there. gdness! even malaysia is better at this! and what happened to their baggage system thingy there were supposed to have? even the trains don't have luggage racks! and those that do don't serve the line any more! SMRT.... SMRT.... out to make money only. :mad:Who says Singapore is small? You can travel through it for hours and hours by train! :p

On another note,...... so that means they separated the spur line from Tanah Merah to the airport from the East-West Line and you have to change trains there in any case? There are no more through trains to/from the city? Crazy! Didn't realize that until reading your latest post, though you and jpatokal had already alluded to this earlier (in this thread and another one).

When I travelled there the last time (March 2003) one could still take a direct train. When did they change that?

[Yappofloyd]

Ok I am going to attempt to keep the relevance of this thread to the title whilst also posting a comment on singapore MRT issues raised...

My favourite airport link is by far MTR in HK!

Now, to Singapore again...

I also didn't know that they had changed the airport line and that there is no longer a through service (Last travelled Feb 2004). This is crazy! Already it was (yes jpatokal) slow when it should have been semi-express but just having to change at Tenah Merah is silly.

As ncr asks when did they change that?

[jpatokal]

I also didn't know that they had changed the airport line and that there is no longer a through service (Last travelled Feb 2004). This is crazy! Already it was (yes jpatokal) slow when it should have been semi-express but just having to change at Tenah Merah is silly.

As ncr asks when did they change that?
22 July 2003, says Urbanrail.net.

In SMRT's favor, the transfer at Tanah Merah is fairly painless: just cross the platform and get onto a waiting train, the shuttle schedules are fairly well synced to main line service.

My second pet peeve, which I alluded to in my previous post, is that the MRT only connects to Terminal 2, instead of adding another stop 500m down at Terminal 1. This means you have to get off and lug your stuff through half of T2 to get to the Skytrain (yes, that's what they call it!) to T1. I'm not sure how this will change once the new Mitsubishi Skytrain replacement (already well under construction) takes over in a few years though.

[Yappofloyd]

Urbanrail is a good site so the date must be correct (I was overtired so perhaps I changed trains without realising it!).

I don't mind the T1 distance. T3 will have a station though? Yes?

So your favourite rail airport link?

[mrtfreak]

the CGA station is situated between T2 and the future T3. they canceled the through train service as passenger loads were not very heavy towards CGA. and how could they? its rather inconvenient! thank goodness i live along the east west line and have only got to change once to go to the airport. taking a bus is just as bad. taxis are the only faster alternative (i can't drive yet).

getting back to the point of favourite rail service, etc. airport link=KLIA ekspres.
partly due to my uncle's involvement and partly due to it being the fastest train i've ever ridden on. also, they have a direct service instead of stopping at intermediate stations. they have the transit servcie for that. also, this is the only other airport link i've used with the exception of SMRT that is.

[jpatokal]

I think the Germans are the only ones who really do airport links right: for example, at Frankfurt, you can board a high-speed ICE train right at the airport. There are also cheap, direct connections by various regional trains to central Frankfurt Hbf and beyond.

The Hong Kong MTR Airport Link is often taken as an example of a good airport link, but I don't like the fact that you have no choice: there's no commuter service, so it's either 50 HKD for the express or a bus to the nearest commuter station. Connectivity from Kowloon station is also pretty much nonexistent... although the planned extension of the KCRC West Line (http://www.kcrc.com.hk/eng/corporate/project/index.asp?page=KSL) should improve this.

I took the MRT to Changi Airport & back yesterday (seeing off a friend, so no bags to worry about), and now I have one more gripe: the signage on the shuttle is pretty poor. Both ways, when the shuttle arrives at Tanah Merah and doors on both sides open, there were confused-looking people wondering which way to go to get to the city. The announcement before arrival says "go left for City Hall, or right for Tampines, Simei, Paris Ris", but there isn't a single sign or announcement saying "to the City" like there are at the airport. One more reason to dislike the shuttle :(

[mrtfreak]

i myself have seen confused chinese tourists. they assumed that the train would travel city-wards as the CGA spur and PSR spur are of the same colour. they had to go back to expo and change to another train bound for tanah merah. lots of gripes. change the line colour if you operate CGA line as another line and give tanah merah a destination number then!

[Yappofloyd]

There seems to be a reticence by other members to disclose their favourite rail systems so I encourage anyone to post their prefs.

Jpatokal, I haven't exited Frankfurt airport but have heard the station links there are great and the German airport/rail links are said to be well linked into the network. (Although the main int. airport in Berlin at Tegal doesn't the new main berlin airport, being moved to an upgraded Schoenefeld, when finished will have a link from an S line to Bradenburg).

I also like CDG in Paris as you can jump on a TGV to anywhere in France and catch the suburban line easily once you finally get from the whichever terminal you are to the train station by shuttle.

I agree that HK MTR Airport Link Kowloon station is poorly linked.

mrtfreak, from what you posted it seems that MRT cancelled the thru service due to poor patronage as which was most likely due to the lack of an express or semi-express service to CBD. Perhaps they should try again with a new timetable.

KL, yes well built it seems but so far away (like Narita)......and too expensive, I think.

[ncr]

I haven't exited Frankfurt airport but have heard the station links there are great and the German airport/rail links are said to be well linked into the network.Well, in comparison to many other countries, probably yes. Though German people will still complain about the connections.... ;) And I think Frankfurt might be the only airport with really good rail links in Germany. But then it is by far the biggest and most important one.

It always had the covenient underground station frequented by S-Bahn and long-distance trains, and a few years ago they added the new glass & steel ICE station above ground. So passengers have a couple of options for public transportation......

But my experience is limited, as I only ever used the airports in Frankfurt, Düsseldorf, Köln/Bonn and Schönefeld. (And only in case of FRA used the railway to get there.) What has my compatriot Reiner Zimmermann to say about this topic?

[mrtfreak]

talking about airport links, do any of these trains have stations within the airport terminal itself? i know the KLIA ekspres station is on the first floor of the Main Terminal Building. the transit staion, however, is athe the other end which is a bit far from the international departure side.

the singapore MRT link does not stop within the terminal but between two terminals.

[Yappofloyd]

Mmmm,

Depending on the technical definition of 'within the airport terminal'....

Places I can immediately think of where I have caught a train to airport and the station seems to be under or immediately adjacent would be; HK and Osaka (part of terminal design), Sydney and Madrid (both under terminal area but built later), LHR (adjacent but depending on what terminal), Narita (I think it was built when the terminal was built but maybe not?).

Anyway, of course the ideal would be a train station immediately in-between gates where you can do all your check in/security before you board the train and then exit the train and enter the gate from the station.........

[jpatokal]

Places I can immediately think of where I have caught a train to airport and the station seems to be under or immediately adjacent would be; HK and Osaka (part of terminal design), Sydney and Madrid (both under terminal area but built later), LHR (adjacent but depending on what terminal), Narita (I think it was built when the terminal was built but maybe not?).
Narita's current train station was retrofitted later. According to the Japanese Wikipedia, there was a Keisei shuttle service running nearby immediately after opening (current Higashi-Narita stn), but it took until 1991 to build and open the current two-line JR/Keisei station under the terminals.

On second thought, I'll have to nominate Sapporo's Chitose airport here: it's built atop the main Sapporo-Hakodate line, so you have excellent connections throughout the island.

An interesting JRTR issue on airport rail links: Issue 39, July 2004 (http://www.jrtr.net/).

[Yappofloyd]

jpatokal,

Thanks for the clarificationa and info on Narita rail connect.s

A VERY Big thanks for JRTR issues website link which I had not seen before and which is very detailed.

[BangkokBlues]

I have had the grand fortune of riding it many times at all hours of the day & night. Great system, beautiful stations, some of the most astounding people watching experiences of my life. Once I stayed in Moscow for 2 months in December and January and rode the MM everyday to Red Square.

[von Hirschhorn]

Quote:

I think the Germans are the only ones who really do airport links right: for example, at Frankfurt, you can board a high-speed ICE train right at the airport. There are also cheap, direct connections by various regional trains to central Frankfurt Hbf and beyond.

Amsterdam – Schiphol will do as well, all sorts of rail connection from underneath. The TGV to Paris will follow soon. But this is far from my favorite system, to common, to often seen, nothing to dream about let alone ride for pleasure.
Since this thread is about favorite systems and I hardly can believe these are airport connections and subways (metro systems) only, my favorites are in Southeast-Asia although the mainland of Europe does have a few good ones from the past in mind.
The interurban tramways of Belgium (SNCV) for example or any German rural line and riding behind the driver in a ‘schienenbus’ (rail bus).
Talking about subways, do not forget Berlin but during the days of ‘the wall’. Two West lines passing the East sector. After the immortal words: “Zurück bleiben” (stay behind) a ‘geisterfahrt’ (ghost ride) along closed and dim lighted stations occupied by trigger-happy Vopo’s only (East-German – DDR - boarder soldiers)
North Borneo, the state of Sabah and a wonderful but nowadays a bit neglected rail system from Tanjong Aru to Tenom.
Second best, although here is nothing to compare, the railway line between the Vietnamese harbor Haiphong and the capital of the Chinese province Yunnan; Kunming.
Two countries, two systems but once one, the C.I.Y. (Chemin de fer de l'Indochine et du Yunnan)
Actually you cannot ask a fan for his favorite, there are many. Count your blessings and go there, there is so much to see.

[jpatokal]

North Borneo, the state of Sabah and a wonderful but nowadays a bit neglected rail system from Tanjong Aru to Tenom.
Second best, although here is nothing to compare, the railway line between the Vietnamese harbor Haiphong and the capital of the Chinese province Yunnan; Kunming.
Hmm... I though the Sabah system has been recently renovated (a bit), as documented here (http://www.sabah.gov.my/railway/), but the Kunming-Vietnam line remains shut until further notice after a few nasty landslides.

[von Hirschhorn]

After many years of doing nothing and let the train run by and for them self it seems there is a lot of good will to refurbish the business and bring the infrastructure more up to date. That’s why I said a bit neglected because still you can not compare this North Borneo Railway enterprise with oiled systems elsewhere on earth. It’s not negative mend and for the sake of a favorite no wish for streamlining. Take a bumpy ride between Beaufort and Tanjong Aru and you know what I mean.
And yeh, my second best seems to be almost deceased, how you cope with a loss like that. In the thread: China – The Yunnan meter gauge lines you can read more about this line. Still other / new information than stated already is mostly welcome but appaerently not many of us walk, ore walked, around in Mengzi or Shiping. All the times I have been there I did not see a single white face.

[dick]

Tja, the problem is that my favourite railway system(s) does not exist anymore. Its the heavy interurban railway between Amsterdam and The Hague in the beautiful country called The Netherlands. By tramfans better known as "The Blue tram (De blauwe tram)" and...the elevated railways (The El) of New York city. And more to present times: the trams of the Hague and Amsterdam and the subway of New York and the Metro of Paris are my favourites to, not only the history but also to travel with. The Blue tram is a childhood reminiscences, to travel by NY subway a youthful dream. And now I write articles about this system.