View Full Version : Skytrain Oddities
1. Did you ever notice the following strange thing between Siam and Ratchathewi Stations?
On a stretch of about 150-200 metres, they have installed (metal?) plates of about 1x1m size on top of the concrete segments of the track, and only on the eastern side (i.e. left, if going towards Siam/On Nut), beginning right after the crossing of Khlong Saen Saep and obstructing the view towards Sra Pathum Palace.
It seems indeed to be a screen to protect the palace from the curious views of passengers, or does anyone have another explanation?
2. Also, anyone knows what the third rail between Asoke and Phrom Phong is for? (In case you didn't notice, in the middle of the section, the track widens and a third rail branches off in between the two normal ones, ending after about 200m.) Sure it looks like a holding track, but why should anyone want to park rolling stock there???
Wisarut
03-09-03, 06:43 PM
Khun NCR,
For the case of thsoe steel plates on the section form Ratchathewee to Siam, it is due to security reason.
YOU should NEVER forget that Princess Sirindhorn is
now living at Sra Pathum Palace, thus the supreme
security measures have to be applied!
Even Saen Saeb Commuter Boats have to slow down
their engines when they pass Sra Pathum Palace.
For the 3rd track at Asoke and Phrom Phong (as well as other places, it for moving the rolling stock into different tracks.
There are 10 places of such 3rd tracks such as:
1) Mochit Terminal
2) Onnut Terminal
3) National Stadium Terminal
4) Surasak-Saphan Taksin
5) Asok-Phrom Phong
6) Ratchdamri - Saladaeng
7) Chong Nonsee - Surasak
8) Ari-Sanam Pao
9) Phyathai - Ratchathewee
10) Chitlom - Ploenchit
Khun Wisarut,
Thanks for the info. Well, if the princess lives there, that's of course worth a consideration.
Though the whole thing still doesn't sound very reasonable to me.
How would anyone try to attack the palace from the Skytrain? Carry a small gun (a big one wouldn't be possible, obviously) and fire through the windows while passing by? Very unlikely..... And then, the palace must be visible from other locations as well, I guess. What about Siam Discovery Center/Siam Carpark? Is there any protection against snipers there? (Not that I seriously think anyone could want to harm the Thai royal family, anyway! As everybody knows, they are so much respected, loved and revered here.)
Or do you mean it's just to prevent people from taking photos? But again, there are probably other vantage points and means (aerial photos/high-resolution satellite imagery) for evil people intending to spy. Would be rather suspicious and unpractical to do it from a moving train, in public, right inside a crowd of other passengers.
And by the way, yes I have noticed that the khlong boats slow down to sub-walking speed when passing this area. But what is the rationale behind it? How does that increase the security of the palace???
Maybe it's just so that the princess isn't disturbed by the noise of the engines?
And for the second issue I raised - it still doesn't make sense to me. Of course you need to have facilities to move the rolling stock between the tracks and the two lines. But why do you need an additional blind track for that? A switch alone would suffice.
Wisarut
05-09-03, 12:17 PM
Khun NCR,
If the boat along Klong Saensaeb runs very fast, ti will cause
lots of noise and the wave from the running boat will cause
the soil erosion whcih has plagues the communities along the canals .... Think about it!
Sorry, even though there is not possible to make a direct fire into
Sra Pathum Palace from Skytrain, but the information from the area could be used as te way to infiltrate into the palace ... find
the right target ... Therfore the obstacle has to be erected ....
Well, if you go to Chitlom Station, you'll see the barrier
at the siode of Matae Dei girl school. Thsi is due to the request from the School ... for security reason of course ...
Ironically, before Skytrain becomes a reality, there were
strong protests agiainst Skytrain project from that school.
However, once the project becomes a reality, those protesters
from the scholl have become loya customers of Skytrain ...
Well, those blind tracks are for the case when the rolling stock went out of order though ... moving thsoe out of order cars out of teh track to allow another car to pick up the stranded passengers.
jpatokal
14-09-03, 01:03 PM
Are there any plans at all to construct the Skytrain's missing stations at Senaruam and Suksawittaya? Are they awaiting the completion of something in the vicinity (the usual reason why Singapore leaves future stations on the MRT), or is it a question of lack of money, lack of interest, too many opposition party voters, ...?
Wisarut
14-09-03, 08:18 PM
Khun jpatokal,
NOT any time soon due to the fact that there are less people around Soi Senaruam (Phahol Yothin 11) and
Suksa Witthaya (On SOuth Sathon Road), even though the Government Saving Bank and Shinnawatra Building are
not far from Soi Senaruam, and Asia Bank PCL, ABNAmro,
Bank of China, and St. Louis Hospital are not far from
Suksa Witthaya ...
Wisarut
sabaisabai
28-09-03, 10:30 PM
It's good to see that the Skytrain has been designed to cater for the new stations; the tracks rise at the point of the missing stations and the pillars there are thicker to support the extra weight of stations.
The MRT in Singapore, on the other hand, doesn't seem to much such allowances. Dover station, added on after the line was already open, had to be built with the platforms on the either side of the train lines (as the BTS skytrain lines were built), which is inconsistent with all the other ordinary stations on the sytem. A station missing on the newly opened north-east underground line doesn't seem to make any allowance for future work. I'd imagine that would make adding on a new station quite a headache.
jpatokal
29-09-03, 11:37 AM
Actually, there are a couple of 'missing stations' in Singapore as well: if you look at a route map, you'll notice that numbers have been allocated for NS6 and NE2, both on long stretches of track that might need a station in the future. I'm not sure there's any physical infrastructure in place though yet. Dover, by contrast, was added as an afterthought to an older section of line.
In addition, the new North-East Line has definite plans to open station NE11 (Woodleigh) and the controversial NE15 (Buangkok). The latter of these has actually been completed, but is not open because SBS Transit calculated that ridership would not cover operation costs!
Interestingly enough, while the Skytrain has physically prepared for opening new stations, the route map doesn't take this into account and all the station numbers will have to be changed if a new station is inserted.
sabaisabai
29-09-03, 11:55 AM
I'm pretty sure that NE6 is in fact the Dhoby Ghaut interchange, and that NE2 is the only station that hasn't been built. I didn't notice any structures between NE1 and NE3 and was anticipating at least a cavernous space for a future station there. Therefore I wouldn't expect NE2 to be built for a long time yet. IMO Buangkok should be opened. It will push speedier development in the area, and besides, SBS should focus on the service to the public more than just station-by-station feasibility. I think Woodleigh has also been completed.
If I remember correctly the old numbering system of the MRT included space for Dover, although I could be wrong about this.
jpatokal
29-09-03, 01:07 PM
Yes, NE6 is Dhoby Ghaut, but the missing station is NS6, between Kranji and Yew Tee on the Woodlands extension of the North-South line. :D And I believe the current station numbering system is a rather recent development, so it would have been easy enough to accommodate Dover (opened 2001) in the plan.
I agree with you about Buangkok, but leave it to SBS to spend billions and then pinch pennies... and I believe that the actual station for Woodleigh has not been built yet, although the tunnel infrastructure is in place. Most estimates I've seen say that it won't be opened until 2010 or so.
sabaisabai
29-09-03, 01:19 PM
Time to move over to the Singapore forum for the Singapore MRT I reckon :)
jpatokal
03-10-03, 08:18 PM
There's a Finnish saying: "One fool can ask more than 7 wise men can answer." So here's proof. :D
1 -- Why are the Skytrain lines oriented west-south and north-east, instead of the more logical north-south and west-east? Or even south-east, which would allow a direct connection between the main arteries Silom and Sukhumvit?
2 -- Saphan Taksin station has been built on top of the second track, but there doesn't seem to be any room to free the 2nd track and expand the station southward, since car traffic to the bridge whizzes past on the same level a single meter away. How is this going to be handled when the extension is taken into use?
3 -- Why can't the ticketing machines accommodate bills? It seems ridiculous to use machines to issue tickets, and then employ humans to change bills into coins! And it would also be nice to top up Skytrain cards at the machines.
4 -- There are TV screens for playing advertisements in many stations, would it be too hard to copy Singapore and add a "Next train in X minutes" indicator to these?
Wisarut
06-10-03, 03:15 AM
Khun jpatokal,
It is due to the local traffic pattern -> most Bangkokians in the North (from Mochit [BKK Boundary Pole of 1966] and Northern Bangkok suburbs) usually going to the East (Sukhumvit to Onnnut -> BKK boundary pole of 1966 and Samut Prakarn) ... This is something beyond your control though ... You CANNOT change their habits to Fit Farang's taste, that's all.
Khun JPATOKAL, I'd like to remind YOU that the traffic exchange between Silom and Sukhumvit is MUCH less than the traffic exchange between Phaholyothin and Sukhumvit [the 2 Major Roads opened for service since 1936.]
For the case of Taksin Extension, the train will need to be arranged in such a way that it will allow those who reach Saphan Taksin before will go first and then the one who comes late will have to wait unti the train from Mochit reaching Charoen Nakhon or the Train from Taksin Interchange reaches Surasak Station.
This kind of arrangement will be applied untl the traffic has built
up into the level that Sapahn Taksin will have to be stacked like Silom Station of Subway ... Need more support pillars from Surasak stations to Charoen Nakhon.
Well, the first type of TVMs hasn't been designed for deal with the banknotes .... the TVMs which accepts Banknotes require more time to design and test to ensure that they can detect the counterfeits from the stacks of Banknotes ...
Furthermore, those who have cash in Banknotes -> at least more than 200 Baht are encouraged to used the stored value tickets and STRONGLY discourange from buying the sgnle trip ... so as to break the habits to make a one trip journey by compelling the passengers to save more cash to pay the stored value tickets ... those who save at least 300 Baht
are encouraged to trasfere to 30- Day passes [15 trips] as the economic way to travel ...
As far as I concern, those who use Skyrain as daily routine are engouraged to use 30-day pass ... after all, they
have to travel to travel at least 44 trips a month .... So, they need to buy 30-Day pass [30 Trips] once they receive the salary
and then buy the 30-day pass [15 trips] on the 16th Day of the month ....
Those who have a lots of cash in their saving will be encournaged to use 3 cards of 30-day pass [30 trips] ....
the firstone at the day they receive the slary, the second for the
20th-25ht day -> the msot diffcult part if they burnt their salary
to live in abject poverty justt befoe receiveing the salary ... and the 3rd card on the 10th-15th day of the 2nd month ....
HMM, better tell VGI Global and BTSC about this issue
so that they will add thin kind of thing into the LCD panels
for each station ....
yeha...I noticed those things.........but I also got a "BIG" question too...
What happened to that proposeed station between the Nonsri and Surasak Station?...If I'm not mistaken, They r not going to build that one soon...right?..:confused:
Wisarut
25-10-03, 11:51 PM
Khun Chad,
That's Suksawitthaya Station which should be named as Satho Station instead since most people would feel more familar with Sathon than Suksawitthaya (highschool near the proposed station) ....
Too bad ... The company considered that there are too few people woul are going to use this station, thus they are not going to buld the statin any time soon ... waiting until the traffic has been bult up to the level worthy to add more station.
Furthermore those who want to go to KMUTT, can go to Surasak station and picu up the taxi to drive across the expressway to Pracha Uthit Road to go to KMUTT ... Those who are not so well to do will go down to Sapha Taksin station and then picu up bus No 75 to go to KMUTT.
Originally posted by Wisarut
Khun Chad,
That's Suksawitthaya Station which should be named as Satho Station instead since most people would feel more familar with Sathon than Suksawitthaya (highschool near the proposed station) ....
Too bad ... The company considered that there are too few people woul are going to use this station, thus they are not going to buld the statin any time soon ... waiting until the traffic has been bult up to the level worthy to add more station.
Furthermore those who want to go to KMUTT, can go to Surasak station and picu up the taxi to drive across the expressway to Pracha Uthit Road to go to KMUTT ... Those who are not so well to do will go down to Sapha Taksin station and then picu up bus No 75 to go to KMUTT.
Whats KMUTT??:confused:
Wisarut
26-10-03, 01:13 AM
KMUTT -> King Mongkut's University of Technology Thonburi -> the new name for King Mongkut's Institue ofTechnology -> local version of MIT. Colloquially called as "Techno Bangmod" since
it is in Bang Mod area of Thonburi.
jpatokal
06-02-04, 05:59 PM
A post of mine from last October:
Originally posted by jpatokal
1 -- Why are the Skytrain lines oriented west-south and north-east, instead of the more logical north-south and west-east? Or even south-east, which would allow a direct connection between the main arteries Silom and Sukhumvit?
K. Wisarut thought I was silly to suggest this, but I guess this means Transport Minister Suriya is also silly since he wants to do the same thing:
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/MassTransit/mmnews06.shtml#17
BTW, the link to the above from this page (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Subway/MRTA02.shtml#future) is broken: it should be just .../MassTransit/..., not ..Subway/MassTransit/... .
Wisarut
06-02-04, 11:14 PM
Khun jpatokal,
For the case of Suriya, I think he has his own hidden agenda though so he has come up with such kind of route arrangements ...
For one sure thing If your try to implemente in North-South,
East -West route, I have no clue how coiuld they cume with convenient itnerchange as Siam Station .... Interchange for
the North-South, East-West arrangement would be look like Chatuchak-Mochit, Silom-Saladaeng, and Asok-Sukhumvit ->
The3 interchange which require stair climbing ... Even equipped with escalators and elevators, I still consider these 3 interchages as "Very Lousy designed Interchanges" ...
I still have no clue how MRTA is going to turn Thai Cultural Center, Wang Boorapha, Tha Phra, Bang Wah, and Mahai Sawan into interchanges with very well designed interchages as Siam Station?
Note Suriya has included the 8th line (Yellow line) along Sri Nakharin Road from Samrong to Bang Kapi -> wichih will ask BTSC
or the new company to implement. I agree that this route SHOULD be implemented as soon as possible to relieve the
traffiic jam around Happyland, Sri Nakharin, Seacon and Thepharak road ... I have been crushed in both vans and very long BMTA bus (Bus No. 145) which are packed up like sardine cans even with very long double cars .... Traffic jam at Lam Salee and Huamark-Phatthanakarn intersection (near Hua Mark railway station and Jusco Hua Mark) have frustrated those who
who have to throug this area for very long time ...
This Yellow route is actually thee first part of Samak's Ring Railway ... thus KrungThep Thanakhom just delivered this section to MOTC so that this exteionsion will be push forward .... whit full speed ahead ...
For Samrong terminal, BTSC will have to come up with very good design so that Samrong station will become a good interchange as Siam Station. However, the interchange at Lam Salee Intersection is another matter since Lam Salee has been forced to be underground by that goddamned Ramkhamhaeng Elevated way.
Even though this elevated way has helped to faclitate the traffic along Ram Khamhaeng road, it has forced MRTA to put the route from MRTA to bang Kapi underground which is not so good .... doubling the construction cost .... may force MRTA to come up with staggering station like Silom station.
Well, MTA should invie foreigners (such as Siemens, Hitachi 0r so)
to invest on the assembly line to produce the local-made rolling stocks to meet the surging demand for Subway-Skytrain ....
mrtfreak
12-07-04, 04:38 PM
khun wisarut,
i think that the metal plates are PRIMARILY for sound reduction. the royal family must not be disturbed at any time, and not due to safety reasons. firstly, who would be silly enough to shoot from a moving train, and even to verify the location from skytrain tracks would be impossible, as i am sure that people are always on the move.
let me highlight to you some support. there are, according to what i've read, other locales where the metal plating is erected. besides this, the boats also have to reduce speed. this is for sound reduction i am sure.
in KL, malaysia, the PUTRA LRT used to go nearby my aunt's house. i once stayed in it to look after her dogs while she went on holiday. the trains made a loud echo like noise, ever since they installed metal plates along the curve there, the sound has been blocked out. i am sure this is NOT to protect privacy, as they were never installed until a few years of operation (no doubt after complaints).
hope that this is useful.
Seen at Tesco Lotus Ratchada (Fortune) in January 2005 - battery powered toy Skytrain for 399 Baht.
pic1 (http://tinypic.com/4l65qq) - pic2 (http://tinypic.com/4l65ur) - pic3 (http://tinypic.com/4l65w6) - pic4 (http://tinypic.com/4l67g4)
Now come on you railway and mass transit enthusiasts, buy this! And don't let your children get into reach, it's far too precious for such profane use. :D (Actually a certain Mr. Morris told me he already owns one.....)
http://www.nowitz.com/image-pages-updated/CD3719/CD3719-0072.html
Here's another person who either can't count, has spent too much time looking at the top bollocks or hasn't looked up monorail in the dictionary yet.
On another note, am I right in thinking that BTS is essentially a heavy-rail rather than a light-rail? If so, is this a measurement of rail weight, gauge or rail profile?
And what gauge is BTS? I vaguely remember hearing somewhere it was 'standard', but I also didn't look too closely at the undercarriage.
BTS and Bangkok Subway are standard gauge and heavy-rail.
I think there is no clear-cut definition for 'heavy-rail', but it largely depends on weight, and maybe track layout. Light-rail usually refers to something like trams etc.
The Enforcer!
02-06-06, 09:42 AM
BTS and Bangkok Subway are standard gauge and heavy-rail.
I think there is no clear-cut definition for 'heavy-rail', but it largely depends on weight, and maybe track layout. Light-rail usually refers to something like trams etc.
What a weighty subject.
The Enforcer!
Thanks for that! Having posted this, I have found many webpages calling BTS a monorail. Could it be that an earlier plan called for an monorail? Or is it just that people see something that looks like it could be a monorail from street level, but fail to challenge their own assumption when they get to platform level?
jpatokal
02-06-06, 12:09 PM
Well, for non-geeks "elevated train" is the same as "monorail". They see one elevated "track" up in the sky, and aren't particularly concerned about whether the track has two or one rails inside.
Let's call it Skytrain. Why?
An elevated train is not always a monorail. Monorail is on 1 rail, not one track. So BTS is NOT a monorail, but a Light Rail. And now I have a problem, because a Light Rail (light train) in the States is not the same when we talking about Light Rail (light train) in Europe or Asia. In the USA a light train is what you see on a fancy fair. In Europe a light rail is what in the USA is an interurban, a tram who can over 110km/h! (in the States). Monorail is a system, Light rail a kind of exploitation. Monorail is also a kind of metro (only in cities on reserved track!). A really monorailmetro is Tokyo Tama intercity monorail.
All things have nothing to do with gauges. The term heavy rail is unknown to me (until I saw it on the forum).
The Enforcer!
03-06-06, 09:07 AM
calling BTS a monorail
It is (if you take away one of the tracks!).
The Enforcer!
jpatokal
03-06-06, 05:07 PM
It is (if you take away one of the tracks!).
So when you take away both tracks, like this (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/Skytrain/stop.jpg), it becomes a Thaksinrail? :p
Another fine project you've derailed Maew!
So when you take away both tracks, like this (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/Skytrain/stop.jpg), it becomes a Thaksinrail? :p
Not to bright please;) ;)
The Enforcer!
04-06-06, 09:47 AM
So when you take away both tracks, like this (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/Skytrain/stop.jpg), it becomes a Thaksinrail? :p
Absolutely!
The Enforcer!
And now I have a problem, because a Light Rail (light train) in the States is not the same when we talking about Light Rail (light train) in Europe or Asia. In the USA a light train is what you see on a fancy fair. In Europe a light rail is what in the USA is an interurban, a tram who can over 110km/h! (in the States). All things have nothing to do with gauges. The term heavy rail is unknown to me (until I saw it on the forum).
These terms are indeed confusing. It seems that LRT (Light Rail Transit) is generally contrasted with railbound Rapid Transit Systems, and maybe one could say that the term LRT is applied to modern tramways and similar systems, usually with non-exclusive rights-of-way. And yes, it has nothing to do with the rail gauge.
Let's have a look at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_rail_transit):
"Light rail is a relatively new term, as an outgrowth of trams/streetcars. Speeds are usually higher, and articulated vehicles may be used to increase capacity. Note that some systems called light rail have most or all of the characteristics of rapid transit (see below) and may be better placed in that category, while others are essentially trams referred to as light rail for political reasons.
Rapid transit typically runs grade-separated from all intersecting roads, in tunnels or on elevated structures, or in rail cuts in outlying areas. Trains typically run faster than light railways, and stops are less frequent. Platforms are usually level with the typically high floors of the trains, and trains can reach ten or more cars in length (with multiple-unit operation), providing more capacity than light rail at higher headways. Electricity is usually provided by a third rail, though overhead wires are sometimes used, particularly by systems such as the Tyne and Wear Metro which run extensively above ground. Fares are collected before boarding, and usually proof of payment is required to even enter a station's platforms. Systems of this type can be called metros, subways, undergrounds, elevated railways, or sometimes heavy rail, though this term is more commonly used to refer to mainline and regional railways [...]."
(Note: the Skytrain is an elevated railway with third-rail power supply where fares are collected before entering the platform level..... of course you could argue this way or the other, but for what? In the end it's somewhat irrelevant how we categorize it.)
Or in more detail:
Light rail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail)
Rapid transit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_transit#Similarities_to_light_rail)
I also think this kind of separation only exists in English. :confused: In German, for example, we simply refer to the exact type of railway, i.e. tramway, S-Bahn, U-Bahn, not a fuzzy category, and certainly not to "light" or "heavy" rail cars/systems.
Tettyan
07-06-06, 11:08 PM
Let's call it Skytrain. Why?
An elevated train is not always a monorail. Monorail is on 1 rail, not one track. So BTS is NOT a monorail, but a Light Rail. And now I have a problem, because a Light Rail (light train) in the States is not the same when we talking about Light Rail (light train) in Europe or Asia. In the USA a light train is what you see on a fancy fair. In Europe a light rail is what in the USA is an interurban, a tram who can over 110km/h! (in the States). Monorail is a system, Light rail a kind of exploitation. Monorail is also a kind of metro (only in cities on reserved track!). A really monorailmetro is Tokyo Tama intercity monorail.
All things have nothing to do with gauges. The term heavy rail is unknown to me (until I saw it on the forum).
The term "light" in light-rail has nothing to do with the weight of the cars, but the capacity of the system. In that sense, BTS is definitely heavy-rail, since the stations are designed for six-car trains, and with the system running at full capacity (which it probably never will for many years to come, esp as long as they're running 3-car trains), it could handle up to 1 million boardings a day.
As others have noted here, definitions can be pretty fluid. Generally, heavy-rail usually is fully grade-seperated and almost always runs on a dedicated right-of-way. The Skytrain definitely fits both these criteria. US tramway systems, which generally run at street level, but may or may not have a dedicated right-of-way, fall pretty clearly in the catagory of light rail. Of course, then you have the Green Line in Los Angeles, which uses light-rail cars (and can be considered to have "light-rail" capacity), but runs on an exclusive, grade-seperated right-of-way down the median of Interstate 105. You've also got Tokyo's Yurikamome, an elevated ATS line, which has far less capacity than the run-of-the-mill rapid transit system - I'd classify this as "light" rail as opposed to "heavy", but I'm sure not everyone would agree.
jpatokal
08-06-06, 10:41 AM
You've also got Tokyo's Yurikamome, an elevated ATS line, which has far less capacity than the run-of-the-mill rapid transit system - I'd classify this as "light" rail as opposed to "heavy", but I'm sure not everyone would agree.
'Ey, don't diss the seagull! Yurikamome carries 90,000 pax on a normal day and has a peak capacity of over 10,000 ppd/hr, with 6-car trains every 3 minutes at rush hour. It's not massive rail, but it compares pretty favorably with some "subway" systems out there...
Tettyan
08-06-06, 11:54 PM
'Ey, don't diss the seagull! Yurikamome carries 90,000 pax on a normal day and has a peak capacity of over 10,000 ppd/hr, with 6-car trains every 3 minutes at rush hour.
Yurikamome is great if you've got friends in town or time to kill. But if I had to commute to (or from) Odaiba, I'd go with the Rinkai Line instead. Sure, Yurikamome trains have six cars, but they're about 2/3 the length of a normal subway car. Not to mention the really cramped interior! Or the rather leisurly pace.
It's not massive rail, but it compares pretty favorably with some "subway" systems out there...
Well, I guess when you're comparing it to the likes of the Newark City 'Subway' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_City_Subway), it looks like heavy rail. To try to be more precise with our vaugely-defined classifications, we can call Yurikamome "significantly 'lighter' than 'heavy', but still slightly 'heavier' than 'light-rail' rail".
In the USA a light train is what you see on a fancy fair. In Europe a light rail is what in the USA is an interurban, a tram who can over 110km/h! (in the States).
I don't know if you could really make the distinction between the US and Europeand definition anymore, if there ever was one to begin with. Many US light rail systems, such as in Baltimore and St Louis, utilise the tracks of old interurban networks.
jpatokal
09-06-06, 10:53 AM
Actually, it's a little questionable whether Yurikamome is any type of rail at all -- it runs on rubber tyres directly on the concrete viaduct, and the only rail is a little guide rail thingy in the middle that doesn't support weight. So technically it's an Automated Guideway Transit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_mover) (AGT) system instead...
von Hirschhorn
09-06-06, 07:13 PM
The problem with definitions is that they fit for a purpose but not in general. On the other hand we want to have it clear, the world of (rail) transportation in one name, unfortunate this will not be the case. One thing is clear, elevated does not mean monorail at all however, this is explained before.
S-Bahn, U-Bahn, Subway, Underground, Tube, Metro, Tramway, Interurban, Light Rail, Mass Rapid Transit, Heavy and Mono Rail, Guided Bus Way (as I see it the reinvention of the tram without the car as such and rail) People Mover, Funicular, Rope Ways: a fancy fair of modes or systems with only one purpose: bringing people from point A to point B.
BTS is an ordinary ‘metro’ (short for chemin de fer metropolitan – French for metropolitan railway) riding under or above the ground in my opinion does not make any difference. The name ‘skytrain’ is a remain of the first attempt to built this system by the Canadian Lavalin International Group. In Vancouver a similar system runs before and was used as an example.
What’s in a name and how you name it if there exist a mix? For example look at Zwickau (East-Germany – Saxony) where a standard gauge train (‘light’ in characteristics (appearance) but although ‘heavy’) runs to the inner part of the city in co use with the tram tracks. (with third rail because the city tram was build on meter gauge)
Another name of none? A train behaves like a tram, a tram behaves like a train. For the latter look at Germany again, Karlruhe and the municipal tramway system extended to the suburbs part on closed railway lines.
What’s in a name? A linguistic matter and their limitations. There’s always more in reality than could be said or catches in words. As long as we understand what’s meant no severe problems. However, looking at old clips of the Bangkok Post (13.04.1992) concerning the building of the BTS I read: City signs contract for baht 18 billion tram lines By 1996 Bangkok is expected to have two elevated tram lines for city commuters. That, contrary to my plea above, is beside the truth!
Well here's a question about BTS that never occurred to me before. We know that the Taksin extension will be elevated too. And I suppose an system North of Morchit would be too. but what about their other planned extensions? Are any future BTS lines going to come down to street level?
And for that matter, is MRTS going to come up at some point, like it does in Singapore and London?
This thread actually got me thinking about trolley buses. I remember the trolley buses in Cardiff. If you got on at a terminal stop, the driver would sometimes pull a long piece of bamboo out from a rack under the bus and re-raise the pantograph to the overhead cables. Funny seeing the things going down the street with the occasional overhead sparks.
Can one of the forumfriends inform me: Schwebebahn, tram, lightrail....?;)
I ask this because the Topographic service will introduce the "Randstadrail" (a kind of lightrail system) between The Hague and Rotterdam and the The Hague suburb Zoetermeer as a new item on the map. That's the reason that all your opinions are so important to me.
Tettyan
10-06-06, 10:33 AM
Well here's a question about BTS that never occurred to me before. We know that the Taksin extension will be elevated too. And I suppose an system North of Morchit would be too. but what about their other planned extensions? Are any future BTS lines going to come down to street level?
And for that matter, is MRTS going to come up at some point, like it does in Singapore and London?
This thread actually got me thinking about trolley buses. I remember the trolley buses in Cardiff. If you got on at a terminal stop, the driver would sometimes pull a long piece of bamboo out from a rack under the bus and re-raise the pantograph to the overhead cables. Funny seeing the things going down the street with the occasional overhead sparks.
Well, as Wiz has een reporting, the indefinitely-delayed BTS Prannok extension from National Stadium through Rattanakosin is supposed to be underground. I don't think BTS trains will be running at surface level anytime soon, however, if that's what you're asking. There was talk a long while back about having the Taksin extension continue west using the right-of-way of the Maeklong Railway, but it seems pretty clear now that SRT will be handling this transit corridor.
As for MRTA, The Purple Line route from Bangsue to Bang Yai in Nonthaburi is supposed to be all elevated (a very controversial decision, as I understand). The Blue Line extension from Bangsue to Tha Phra (past the Dear Leader's palace at jang song lah) is also supposed to be elevated to save on costs, but I'm not sure how this is going to work.
von Hirschhorn
12-06-06, 08:15 PM
Do not bother about underground or elevated situated lines in concern their name, that’s not important unless you want to have things more complicated than they already are. Yes, just for the knowledge only or be surprised once the lines are open and you make the first ride. After Mo Chit the first meters have to be elevated anyway or descending to a tunnel. And for the matter of the MRTS (both are still ordinary metro’s – see my former reply) planning in Bangkok is always been a thing, what really came to existents another and so it will be in the foreseeable future I suppose. (not hope but that’s another thing)
We flying through the air (hanging on a monorail) in Wuppertal and Dortmund on the university compound. (Schwebebahn) And apart from the Guided Bus Way I did not mention them - the rubber tired counterpart of rail - there are many. First of all the ordinary diesel engine one, single or double deck. The trolley bus also single or double deck. The electro bus,
once or still in Düsseldorf. Hybrid busses both engine and batteries. Busses with a spinning wheel to power them by accelerations only and once on speed with normal engine.
And some others and more, even a small different approach in concept seems to deserve another name. Where the components of bus and rail mingled together, complete new type of systems emerge. People movers, elevated like the Singapore SMRT and three others there include the one between two terminals at Changi airport. A train, a tram or a bus or a wishful combination of all three: a brain. Someone really thought it over! :D
...past the Dear Leader's palace at jang song lah...You mean Kim Thak Sin? :D
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