FutureLines in South

[Wisarut]

Hi Everybody

Now, I would like to aks you which route is an ideal route for the new Pak Bara Deep Sea port (Strategic port in Langoo district of Satun)

1) Hat Yai - Satun - La Ngoo - Pak Bara (130 km)
2) Trang - La Ngoo - Pak Bara (100 km)
3) Kuan Nian - La ngoo - Pak bara (110 km).

(Kuan Nian is the 3rd class station betwen Phatthalung and Hat Yai)

[Tower 43]

K. Wisarut,

While I am not entirely familiar with that part of Thailand in looking at the map it appears that coming out of Trang seems the most logical. There is no mountain to contend with which is not the case with Hat Yai and Kuan Nian. Maybe that is not a significant factor but it looks like it could be. The total kilometers (KM's) are also less.

It seems to me that construction should continue south from Pak Bara through Saturn and then to a connection with the KTM. However the port is serviced it would seem to me that a good connection with the KTM would be advantageous to the SRT. Hauling containers between Pak Bara and Hat Yai or Kuan Nian for movement to or from Malaysia and points in northern Thailand does not seem to be logical for the long term.

One could probably make a good case for this new railroad to be owned and operated by a public corporation. Now, how about a nice double track railroad handling 70-80 car trains with Centralized Traffic Control operated from one control location. Clearances for handling double stack containers would also seem advisable for the long term. It might even make sense to build a standard gauge railroad and transfer the containers to meter gauge equipment at Trang and at the KTM connection point.

[ncr]

Yeah, what Tower 43 wrote certainly makes sense...... and I agree that if they extend from Trang, then the line should not only go to Pak Bara, but on to Satun, and possibly connect to the KTM network via Kangar (capital of Perlis) and Arau (though you have another mountain range at the Thai-Malaysian border and probably need a tunnel).

On the other hand, connecting to Satun from Hat Yai would also be quite logical, for it is already an important rail junction, and this function could be further extended if the Hat Yai-Songkhla Line was really revived (as we read somewhere on 2Bangkok some days ago). Then you would also have a line from the Andaman Sea to the Gulf of Thailand..... However I am not sure whether it is more important for Satun/Pak Bara to connect with this southern (=regional) part of the SRT network, or more directly to the Central Region through Trang and Thung Song Jn?

But the big question is: how likely is it that these plans (rail to Satun and Songkhla) will be realized, and within what timeframe?

[Wisarut]

Note that there is Thale Ban National Park ath the border between Thailand and malaysia (in Satun) ... Same can be said to the Pak bara National Park whcih is in between Trang and la Ngoo District of Satun ....

Hope that the governemtn will tackle this environmental issue before implementing this plan ... since the pak bara Deep Sea Port is already in the NESDB Plan

[Hat-Yai Junc]

Note that there is Thale Ban National Park ath the border between Thailand and malaysia (in Satun) ... Same can be said to the Pak bara National Park whcih is in between Trang and la Ngoo District of Satun ....

Hope that the government will tackle this environmental issue before implementing this plan ... since the pak bara Deep Sea Port is already in the NESDB Plan
Some maps indicate Tale Ban wrongly as on the coast. It's a few kms inland from Satun and the terrain and National Park would probably rule out railway construction through there; particularly as the line would have to take a northward pointing hairpin bend to negotiate the valley route leading from Satun to Tale Ban. The lake itself seems to have formed after a seismic disturbance & landslip a few hundred years back. Perhaps another negative factor.
There has been some talk about building a road between Satun & Kangar in Perlis, Malaysia. The road route would be across the coastal strip; although my maps and visits to the area show that the mountains run almost into the sea there. Doubtless, there are some gaps the road could run through, and I suppose the railway would best follow a similar route.
Big question! What freight might pass thru Pak Bara? Is this yet another watered down version of the Kra Canal and/or the landbridge concept. It always amuses the hell out of me that anyone seriously believes they can compete with the Singapore route; especially since Singapore is undoubtedly an efficient port facility.

Why is another route into Malaysia strictly necessary. Why not improve the existing hugely neglected & criminally underused routes?

[Wisarut]

Well ther is ALREASDY the road form Thaleban to Kangar - havign a border checkpoint int Thale Ban National Park though ... Thaleben is in the Southeast of Satun

For the case of hat Yai to pak Bara, it will go from Hat Yai to Satun first and then go Northewest to La ngoo District before endign up at pak bara ... pak Bara National Park is bordred wit Trang.

[Wisarut]

Khun Hatyai Junction,

Tell this thing to those who run the trains to Port Klang and Singapore, they will tell you the woeful stories between Thai customers and Malaysian port workers & officers at Port Klang and Singaporean wrokers and officers at Singapore Port .... so they think they should NO longer rely on those SOBs at Port Klang and Singapore Port ....

[Hat-Yai Junc]

What market is this line planned to exploit? Cross-peninsula traffic to avoid round-peninsula travel, or something else? I can't imagine any real reason for a port at Pak Bara.

By the way, I've travelled a lot round Tale Ban. Yes, there is a useable road to Kangar; but Satun Province wants to build a more direct, wider coastal route. I think you too must be using maps that show Tale Ban National Park SE of Satun. The actual Tale Ban NP & border crossing is undoubtedly North East of Satun. There is a reason for this confusion. The national park stretches south as far as the sea. I believe that is confusing some map makers & newspaper reports.

[Hat-Yai Junc]

The Trang route to Pakbara is probably more direct, but it will also run into some quite hilly terrain with a very narrow margin between it and the mangroves between Palian (Trang) & Thung Wa (Satun). The road just about squeezes through in a few places.

[Hat-Yai Junc]

By the way, I've travelled a lot round Tale Ban. Yes, there is a useable road to Kangar; but the Jungwat want to build a more direct, wider coastal route. I think you too must be using maps that show Tale Ban National Park SE of Satun. The actual Tale Ban NP & border crossing is undoubtedly North East of Satun. There is a reason for this confusion. The national park stretches south as far as the sea. I believe that is confusing some map makers & newspaper reports.
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/nehtrawihr/detail?.dir=/c60b&.dnm=c308.jpg&.src=ph

This is a 1:250,000 scan on Yahoo. The Tale ban border is ringed in red. Note the map is so old, it doesn't show the road on the Malaysian side of the border, but it is there. The road both sides of the border is negotiable by trucks, but is a bit of a byway by the standards of both countries. The 'dogleg' that connects Amphur Muang Satun to the Tale Ban Border Post & national park(many call it Wang Prachan) is clearly visible. The Lake & NP HQ (very close to the border) are not marked. I recommend the NP. Must be among the most beautiful border crossings around Thailand. The National Park continues way to the north, and also almost to the sea on the mountains that run almost to the sea at the border.

I have also lined in blue a very very approximate route for the proposed coastal road to Kangar. My guess is that a railway could follow a similar route.

True to form, this map has some other unsolved mysteries. Does the Power Plant just East of Satun still exist? Does the airfield (slightly North)(probably military) still exist? The latter is marked on many atlases, but have yet to see any real indication of either.

[GWR]

On the other hand, connecting to Satun from Hat Yai would also be quite logical, for it is already an important rail junction, and this function could be further extended if the Hat Yai-Songkhla Line was really revived (as we read somewhere on 2Bangkok some days ago). Then you would also have a line from the Andaman Sea to the Gulf of Thailand..... However I am not sure whether it is more important for Satun/Pak Bara to connect with this southern (=regional) part of the SRT network, or more directly to the Central Region through Trang and Thung Song Jn?

But the big question is: how likely is it that these plans (rail to Satun and Songkhla) will be realized, and within what timeframe?

The most likely scenario is a Light Rail from Hat-Yai to Songkhla; probably using large swathes of new route due to the problems of moving people off the old track. I guess it might be technically possible to run heavy & light rail together; although common sense (not technical knowledge!) suggests it then might be better to just opt for heavy rail. I think heavy rail port connection at Songkhla is a tad unlikely anyway, as it would involve the construction of a fairly long & expensive bridge or tunnel under the lake estuary to the container feeder port at Singhanakorn. The present reconstruction of the Tinsulanond Bridge (intended for this port traffic) has probably dealt the idea of a freight link a fatal blow. But I guess the intention might be to use the port at Khanom, so the Trang route to Pak Bara might then be favored.
Instinct tells me a lot of this will probably never happen.

[Hat-Yai Junc]

Scans for this thread revisited. Download and view at natural size in your own graphics programmes. Yahoo Photos seems to reduce the resolution, so I'll probably scan at 180+ in future.
http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/nehtrawihr/album?.dir=c60b&.src=ph

[GWR]

http://www.biz-day.com/read/general_news/30_may_05/igajt-r/200m_baht_expand_ranong_port.htm

THE Ministry of Transport said it wants to spend 200 million baht on the planned expansion of Ranong Port into one of the country’s major export-oriented vehicle shipment hubs, while enabling the port to cope with 12,000-tonne freighters, up from the originally targeted 500-tonne freighters.

On its part, the State Railway of Thailand is studying the feasibility of extending the rail network from Chumporn province to Ranong province, given that rail network-based goods shipments connecting to Ranong Port are sure to enhance the country’s transportation-sector competitiveness, while helping to bring down their costs, said Wanchai.

Makes you wonder if SRT or the government are the landowners of the old military railway trackbed from Chumpon to KHAO Fachi.

[Wisarut]

SOmuchfor the provincial governemnts trying to lull the central governemnt to pick their provinces as apart of the governemnt prject so they canget mroe funds for theri provinces andbecome major cities .... :) :p

[Yappofloyd]

I seem to remember a few months ago there was an article (posted on the 2 bkk website?) about the Gov. of Surat Thani pushing for a link from ST to Phuket. Has this gone anywhere or is it the usual provincial ambit claim politics?

[rodfaithai]

K.Wisarut

Do you know the position of the new Songkhla sea port ?

I'm afraid of protesting of this project from someone who call themself NGO.

The problem of deep sea port is maintainance of the depth of the ship route.
Songkhla port's depth was 9 m and now only 6 m or less.


The new track to Satun
we should not only consider the shortest route (from the existing line) but also consider where the goods/products to export come from. And then find the shortest route from those we want to export to the existing track (and sea port).

One problem of Songkhla port is "the amount of export are more than the amount of import".
So we have to bring empty containers from somewhere else to pack our goods to export.

[GWR]

It appears the Pakbara Port Project is still being considered, although no comments on raillinks at the moment: -

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=12537&postcount=100

[Wisarut]

// ------------------------------------------
6 Andaman Chamber of Commerce Sending the Signal to Central Government
REF: Than Setthakij - 9-12 December 2007


Now, member of 6 Provincial Chamer of Commerces along Andaman Coast (AKA Monthon Phuket) have sent the folloiwng signals to the Central Government that:

1. Get the Loan to finance Surat Thani - Khirirat Nikhom - Phang Nga - Phuket railway line as soon as possible.

2. Massive Double tracking of the route from Nakhon Pathom to SUrat Thani via Chumporn to speed up both express and cargos.

3. Consider a rail line connecting Chumporn with Ranong Port.

4. Another Rehabilitation of Thung Song - Kantang line to allow cargo trains to use Kantang railway yard and revitalize Kantang Port.

They seem to be disdain on the central Government's Plan for Pak Bara Depp Sea Port whcih please the Ocean Liners .... Ocean Liners prefer pak bara over Phuket Port and Ranong Port.

[Wisarut]

Now, the enterpreneurs of hat Yai said that the government SHOULD focus on getting more locos avaialble .. by help SRT paying for new spare parts as well as and financing the purchases of New locos instead of advocating more double tracking and reguaging without the new locos avaialble.

REF: Manager Daily 23 May 2008