HatYai/SongkhlaHistory:BoonDunn [Archive]

rodfaithai

27-09-04, 10:34 PM

Utapao? Where was that?

Utapao is the main (natural) canal of Hatyai, it is located on the west of Hatyai. The upstream of this canal in Sadao District and downstream is in Songkhla Lake.

here is Hatyai map
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/HDYMap.gif
Klong Utapao (Utapao canal) is on the left.

Zoom in

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/452CBDnew.jpg

A bridge cross Klong Utapao is near point P
Point A is where the line to Bkk (nearly) meet the line to Songkhla
Hatyai Junction located between point N and Point O

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/2%20km%20north/L2582.jpg
the straight rail is Hatyai-Songkhla line (looking to Hatyai Junction)
on the right is the line to Bkk.

The Enforcer!

28-09-04, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Wisarut
Khun NCR,

U Tapao is the place where the Rail to Songkla and Rail to Padang besar were connected. However, U Tapao (literally mean Chinese Junk Dock) was very flood proned, so RSR (Royal Siamese Railway) decided to move the Junction to the present Hatyai (3 km Southern to Utapao) and downgaded Utapao to the Stop for the Railroad to Songkla.

After Songkla - Hatyai ceased to exist on July 1, 1978, Utapao Stop CEASED to exist ....

When did the junction move to Had Yai?

The Enforcer!

Wisarut

28-09-04, 08:59 AM

Circa 1914-15 or 1917-18

rodfaithai

09-10-04, 04:27 PM

When did the junction move to Had Yai?

The first train from Bkk to Haadyai is on April 1st, 1917
so I think the junction moving is around this trip.

The steam locomotive which pulling this train is Number 32 see it here...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Steam%20Locomotive/1708SoongNern.jpg

ncr

08-01-05, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Hat-Yai Junc
maps are my displacement activity, by the way! I also find industrial history fascinating. Any other such nutcases living in this area?Plenty of them - you can find them on this forum..... :D

Unfortunately, I have no idea about that railway line you mentioned. Will be interesting to see a map. Maybe (probably) Khun Wisarut will be able to give you an answer, or find something out in the national Archives or whereever.

Thanks for the Hat Yai to Songkhla map - where did you take that from? It's obviously some RTSD topo maps. What edition (I mean year)?

Hat-Yai Junc

08-01-05, 09:38 PM

Two aerial photos taken May & June 1989, with map information from 1990. 1 to 50,000. The line is detailed as 'dismantled', but as afar as I know nothing substantial has been dismantled. Indeed, I believe there has never been an official closure order.

Back in about 1996, some of the larger bridges were repainted. I was informed by some locals that this was because some powers envisaged the line reopening one day, but I've no idea who instigated the repainting.

The first two kilometres of the line were used for cement bulk delivery traffic until not long after the 2000 Hat-Yai flood. The rails have since been tarmaced over on the road to Big C.

Rot Fai Thai has also taken to renting out a lot of property adjacent to the track running north of Hat-Yai. I believe they did this to try and tempt squatters off their land adjacent to the fresh market.

Hat-Yai Junc

08-01-05, 10:10 PM

http://hatyaisongkhla.bravehost.com

You will now find the Sichon Image on the same page. The line appears to run to the foot of 'Ant-Shit Mountain'. Connecting tracks suggest it may have once gone further.

Wisarut

09-01-05, 04:01 PM

Khun Hatyai Junction,

You better store your scanned map on otehr webhosts since I cannot make an exteern link to your pictures ... I need to compress them before posting on Rotfaithai Webboard ... Seriously ...

I guess it must be industrial railway though

rodfaithai

10-01-05, 06:49 PM

Glad to know Hadyai have another Railfan I never heard before.
My name is mink also stay in Hadyai just about 100 m from Haadyai Junction Station.

GWR

20-03-05, 10:41 PM

Abandoned without an official order in the 1970s. 1:50,000 Scan saved from Khun Hat-Yai Junction's contributions. Suggest you save & view at normal size in your desktop graphics programme:-
http://www.mapstar.bravehost.com/
SCROLL DOWN
Also saved from Khun HYJ's collection, a scan of a proposed project for Hat-Yai to Songkhla Light Rail and a Hat-Yai monorail that would employ part of the old line. There is no evidence on who created this plan, however. Anyone want to own up? I suspect it might have something to do with the Hat-Yai Chapter of the Thai Railfan club, but it should be added that Hat-Yai's current Lord Mayor Prai Pattano was elected on a monorail platform. Indeed, his two predecessors also had plans for a light rail link.

GWR

06-04-05, 10:22 PM

See also the thread on Hat-Yai's new 'Northern Flood Alleviation Canal':-
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4090&postcount=19
The first picture is from the old railway bridge over Khlong Toei, facing East.
http://pub8.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?img=74415&usernum=633867102
It empties into Khlong Toei just north of the existing floodgates, and goes to Koh Mee in the opposite direction. It'll be interesting to see if they extend it to the wetland at Nam Noi as well. There are also some south-heading branches off this canal. The object seems to be to collect flashflood water from Khor Hong Mountain and divert it away from built-up areas. The bank on the right is actually the trackbed of the old railway, as the canal runs parallel to this for two or three kilometers. The construction work has eaten into the bank somewhat, but I suspect they will restore it in some form, as the trackbed will assist in stopping floodwater flowing back into built-up areas. This section of trackbed might be used for the future light rail project from Hat-Yai to Songkhla. (Other sections will probably follow a new course.) The laterite quarry at Koh Mee Market is just visible on the horizon.

The second picture shows the Khlong Toei railway bridge itself, looking north from the flood gates. http://pub8.bravenet.com/photocenter/album.php?img=74416&usernum=633867102 You can just see the mouth of the new canal (still under construction) on the far side of the bridge.

If you want to look at this site for yourself, my directions are from Big C. Head south into town (on the road that leads to Suwannawong Stadium) until you pass over the old cement terminal level-crossing (used until after the 2000 flood). Turn left at the immediate intersection and follow the road that runs parallel (& south) of the old tracks. Note the land that SRT have rented out for house construction to try & encourage people to move off their land in the market. This wide road peters out after one kilometer, where another local road cuts across the old railway to Tambon Khlong Toei. A gravelled road continues past some pig farms & slum dwellings to a riverside bungalow resort. (Sounds romantic, but the canal most definitely ain't. This is almost certainly a Mia Noi liaison & weekend-wifing joint for Malaysians & Singaporeans). Cut down the track that runs along the northern boundary of the resort and you are there. Turn left for the bridge and right for the floodgates.

Incidently, some anonymous group painted this bridge (& others) about 10 years back. Probably wanted to maintain them for future light-rail use.
Map of Old Hat-Yai to Songkhla line; scroll down for map of a tentatively projected light rail on this route. (http://www.mapstar.bravehost.com/)

GWR

07-04-05, 11:51 PM

Got some facts wrong in the previous post. The first photo was taken about two kilometers east of the Khlong Toei Bridge, where there is a left turn off the backroad from Carrefour to the Public Park over an old level crossing into Ban Pa Kan. This latter village used to have access from a left fork (off the same road) under a railway bridge about 100+ meters nearer Hat-Yai. Canal excavation has bloocked off this access point.
The stadium mentioned is the Jiranakorn stadium; the namesake of a deceased mayor. Khun Kreng Suwannawong is an ex-Mayor who is still very much alive & kicking.
Incidentally, the Khlong Toei Bridge lies right next to Ban Khlong Hae: the home village of Khun Chuwit.

GWR

29-04-05, 08:16 PM

Thanks for that!
Some wierd spelling is in evidence. In fact, obvious mistakes on a brief look thru'.
Naadyai = Hat-Yai
San-Sen = Samsen (And the Thai script Station Board says 'Samsen'; hardly a typical rural station, even in those days.

'Surashtra Dhani' is obviously just a translation by someone who believed that it was vital to indicate all the unsounded Thai characters.

I keep wondering when 'Singora' stopped being commonly used. It was certainly used in World War II histories.

I guess we'd like to see a few more pages of this one. Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam? :)

GWR

05-05-05, 12:50 AM

GWR

05-05-05, 01:32 PM

I may have named this operation wrongly. If so, I'll update you if I find out differently. Here's a 1:250,000 map scan of the railway from just south of Hat-Yai (it's also a map junction) to Padang Besar. It might also contribute to other threads in this 'lively' forum:-
http://tinypic.com/view.html?pic=4uvxbm

GWR

05-05-05, 10:27 PM

The following string suggests that one of the bridges at Khlong Ngae was blown up by Indian Army Sappers.

And for those of you perhaps a little less concerned with 'cold steel rail' matters, it also suggests that the Japanese advance column met ran into a British Army harassing attack on the road to Hat-Yai just North of Sadao; perhaps in the vicinity of the current Safeskin II Factory:-
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4529&postcount=5

GWR

12-05-05, 11:32 PM

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/ktmmap.gif

Interestingly,the map below gives Hat-Yai Junction as the alternative name for a station mistakenly called 'Dutapao'. Well, the original junction was near Khlong Utapao, but it was eventually moved a short ways to avoid the flood problem at that site. Confusing stuff in a place some people then called 'Khok Sa-Met Choon'.

http://www.timlight.uni.cc/A%20Brief%20History.html
http://www.timlight.uni.cc/images/map.jpg

Wisarut

13-05-05, 10:02 AM

Well, the has made a mistake, UTAPAO -> NOT that Dutapao.

Utapao used to be ajunction 3 kmnorht of Hat Yai ... but Utapao area is flood prone area so they decided to move the junction to Hat Yai instead by upgrading Hat Yai Junction Class 3 station while downgrading Utapao to
Class 5 station (AKA Utapao Stop).

Khokl Samet Chum is the old name of Hat Yai though :D

ncr

14-05-05, 03:03 AM

...what happened to it? (Not profitable, I assume?)

ncr

16-05-05, 10:24 AM

Utapao used to be ajunction 3 kmnorht of Hat Yai ... but Utapao area is flood prone area so they decided to move the junction to Hat Yai instead by upgrading Hat Yai Junction Class 3 station while downgrading Utapao to Class 5 station (AKA Utapao Stop). Khok Samet Chum is the old name of Hat Yai though :DBy the way, did Hat Yai only become so big and important because of the railway (I certainly think so)? Is it true that it only was some insignificant village before? When did the boom start - after the relocation of the junction from Utapao?

And where does the name Hat Yai come from? I mean, it translates as 'big beach', isn't that a bit strange for a place 25 km from the coast?

Wisarut

16-05-05, 12:00 PM

Hat Yai is derived from the giant Ma Hat trees ...and Southern dialect always shortens mahat trre into Hat ... :p

Utapao area is flood prone area so RSR decided to move the junction to
Hat Yai and upgradign to 3rd level station in 1922 while downgrading
Utapao to 5th level station.

Look at the Biography of Khun Niphatchinnkhon (October 31,1886 -
Decemebr 10, 1972), the developper of Hat Yai who also worked as the contractorfor Southern Railway Construction.

http://www.khlong-u-taphao.com/index.php?file=whatnew&file=forum&obj=forum.view(cat_id=hy2,id=5)

The Cemetery of Khun Niphatchinnkhon is near the defuct NamNoy station (Hat Yai - Sonkla line)

GWR

16-05-05, 09:53 PM

It seems to me that Khun Niphat's History is probably going to interfere with the main purpose of this thread or forum, so I've moved & quoted some of the relevant posts in a new thread on 'Hat-Yai History' in the 'Thai History Subforum'.

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=4699#post4699

Hat-Yai's history as a junction, drawn on Malayan maps, makes it relevant here; but I think Khun Niphat's total history is not relevant to a thread on Malayan Railway Maps.

GWR

16-05-05, 10:48 PM

Now resited in 'Thai History' Subforum in a thread on 'Hat-Yai History':-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=4699#post4699

ncr

18-05-05, 01:58 AM

Interesting!

So what was Hat Yai Station originally called then?

Khok Samet Chum Junction?

GWR

19-05-05, 02:39 PM

As documented in 'Hat-Yai History':-
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4709&postcount=7
After selling them the land for the Railway Quarter', Khun Niphat convinced the powers-that-be to call it Hat-Yai Junction, as this was less of a mouthful for foreign passengers & would-be entrepreneurs. This happened in 1918, which was also the year the southern line opened. By some accounts, the Government organised a competition to name the Junction, which Niphat won by using the address he already preferred to use in his business correspondence.

That said, the accounts are not yet detailed enough to know whether or not it was called 'Khok Su-Met Choon' Junction' for a shortwhile, or not. It's possible that 'KSMCJ' is what the construction teams called it, for example. We only know that the original Junction was called 'Uttapao' before it was washed-out by floods and moved to its present location.

I half suspect from the difficult angles involved that Uttapao Junction had a 'down-facing' branchline to Songkhla, rather than the existing 'up-facer'. That would mean that there might be some relic of an old bifurcation lying just south-East of Uttapao Bridge. I'll check this out sometime!

But I'm sure Khun Wisaruth is far more knowledgeable about this than I am. My posting strategy tends to be 'if in doubt, state it; because someone is sure to correct you that way'.

GWR

02-06-05, 01:45 PM

On Thanon Sripoovanart in Hat-Yai, there is a Livestock Import Quarantine Center. There also used to be a spur just south of the railway overpass on ‘Sripoo’, to facilitate livestock import to this center by rail.

One wonders when this traffic started & finished.

Thung Song Junction had a whole trainload of very derelict-looking roofed wagons (with slatted sides) in its ‘railway graveyard’ (North of the Station) until recent years. These looked like cattle wagons to me.

GWR

08-09-05, 01:00 AM

Series of pictures of old bridges and other features of the Hat-Yai-Songkhla Branch by Rodfaithai:-

http://photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Bridge/

Early land clearance for the Flood Prevention Canal now running parallel to the old railway in the Khlong Hae area of Hat-Yai:-

http://photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Cut-Off/?action=view&current=3590Canal.jpg

This picture probably indicates the location of the original 'Uttapao' Junction. West is Up, North is Right:-

http://photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/?action=view&current=2318U-Tapao.jpg

GWR

08-09-05, 09:58 AM

I really am guessing here, but it seems to me that the line of the original branch to Songkhla may be visible here as a result of houses (shacks if I remember rightly) being built on the old line course. The present junction is 'image bottom' with the two bifurcating lines heading roughly North (right). If the original Uttapao Junction Station was centred just South-East of the Khlong Uttapao Bridge (as circled), the actual bifurcation may have pointed in the opposite direction. There's an area of habitation near No.2 that is probably built on the old trackbed
This picture probably indicates the location of the original 'Uttapao' Junction. West is Up, North is Left:-

http://photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/?action=view&current=2318U-Tapao.jpg

1 = Line to Bangkok
2 = The now completely disused Songkhla branch (although the first kilometer was used as a bulk cement delivery spur until approx 2000/2001).
3 = Khlong Uttapao
5 = the North End of Thanon Rajuthit, home of the famed Hansa's Cafe.
6 = A flyover.
7 = Hat-Yai's Northern Bypass. It's possible that this picture was taken some time in the late 1980s, as the whole road still has the look of being 'under construction'; especially at 'Image Bottom'.

ncr

08-09-05, 10:01 AM

This picture probably indicates the location of the original 'Uttapao' Junction. West is Up, North is Left:-

http://photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/?action=view&current=2318U-Tapao.jpgSmall correction: If West is Up (which I believe is correct), then North is Right......

And what did he mark there: apparently 1 is the main line, 2 the line to Songkhla, but what's that spur in the red circle? Probably not a railway track, but a road?

And what's his "Utapao II" (http://photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/U-Tapao%20II/) gallery? Beautiful pics! This is really the old line? Looks like it's in very good condition in that area!

GWR

08-09-05, 10:23 AM

Yes. a midnight mistake!

I had a feeling someone would point out that road in the circle, because it looks so like another branch. I can tell you that it is now a road. Note that it also runs parallel to the tracks further South. I doubt that it indicates an old branch, as there are no obvious reasons for a branch in this direction. I suspect this road was built (since WW2- its shown on some maps) to help the construction of flood alleviation measures and perhaps to help reinforce the railway in an area where it is vulnerable to embankment collapses.

The (surmised) old junction allignment is lower than the existing track, but I imagine that the flood washouts of Uttapao Junction (soon after the line was built) made it necessary to embank the mainline and the new branch at a higher level. And the potential cost of embankment for the whole railyard made it easier to move the junction to its present slightly higher site.

Having had a quick look at the Uttapao 2 pictures last night, I reckon (from local explorations) that some of that 'nice' track is actually the present mainline near Khlong Uttapao.

Wisarut

08-09-05, 06:18 PM

Khun Rotfaithai (AKA khun Ming) is a member of Rotfaithai.com who is NOW living in Hat Yai :p :D ... Too bad, he did not post in Rotfaithai.com so much as he used to be :( However, he sems be reactivated right now

GWR

14-09-05, 02:49 PM

The 'Northern' flood alleviation canal in the Klong Toei/Ban Phakan area of Hat-Yai looks as if it is practically finished; although it isn't entirely obvious whether they intend to surface the peripheral roads.

I inspected this area this morning and found some evidence that the Royal Irrigation Department & other agencies seem intent on not destroying the course of the Old Hat-Yai to Songkhla Railway Branchline. The canal runs parallel to the old railway; to the North of it. It looks as if their plan is to use the embankment as a flood barrier, in addition to the canal. 'Yah Fet' (Vetifer embankment reinforcing grass) has been planted along some stretches of the railway embankment recently; especially in some areas where the railway embankment has been added to with dredged soil. This seems sensible, as this material obviously erodes very quickly. Flags along the route probably indicated that this project will receive some kind of royal visit in the next few days. The old track rails are still visible along this stretch:-

http://tinypic.com/dokqy8.jpg

The railway bridge over the Khlong Toey has also been provided with some concrete buttressing to prevent its foundations being undercut by water erosion:-

http://tinypic.com/doknpv.jpg

Further North-East in the Ban Phakan area, the canal meets another canal coming North from the Wat Khor Hong area. A sluicegate has been added just North of this canal junction.The combined canals then veer away from the railway line at a more northerly angle, in the direction of the Nam Noi wetland. The railway line was breeched at this point to allow canal construction. However, it now appears that the railway embakment has been reinstated (along with 'Yah Fet' plantings) with the Khor Hong canal passing underneath by culvert:-

http://tinypic.com/dokr5k.jpg

The primary intention here is almost certainly for the old railway embankment to continue to act as a flood barrier. The fact that the line was embanked at this point suggests that it has always been flood-prone. Indeed, the original junction had to be moved from Khlong Uttapao (to its existing Hat-Yai site) for this very same reason. However, local authorities (such as Tessabahn Nakorn Hat-Yai) have probably asked that this line be left reasonably intact, so that it may be more easily employed for a future transit system.

GWR

14-09-05, 03:17 PM

The Royal Irrigation Dept do seem to be making some effort not to destroy the old Hat-Yai - Songkhla Railway. Follow this link to get the grass ;) :-
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=6222&postcount=40

GWR

03-10-05, 11:08 AM

These pics were photo contest entries from the recent EASTS conference in Bangkok on Sustainable transport. Details:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=6475#post6475

The following were entries of interest on the railways in-&-around Hat-Yai:-

http://www.easts2005.info/photovoting.htm

http://www.easts2005.info/images/photosubmit_clip_image018.jpg

Name: Paemit Bunnjaweht
e-mail: paemit@gmail.com
Title: The green train.
Description: This DMU is running from Hatyai Junction
to Su-Ngai-Ko-Lok with bio-diesel fuel.

This train is the Rapid Train number 175, bio-diesel
is a product of Department of Chemical Engineering
Prince of Songkla University. After using bio-diesel
for years the railway technician found no problem but
the engine is cleaner than before.

http://www.easts2005.info/images/photosubmit_clip_image019.jpg

Title: “It's time to renew”
Description: These track and bridge are part of Hatyai – Songkhla
rail line which was dismiss since 1978.

Now, the traffic in Hatyai City area and highway
number 407 the main artery of Hatyai and Songkhla
become more congested. One of the way to solve this
problem is providing a high efficiency mass transit
system such as commuter train.

Just reconstruction these track and maintenance the
bridges this system is ready to service.

http://www.easts2005.info/images/photosubmit_clip_image020.jpg

Title: “Full loaded”
Description: All cars of this train are loaded with structural
steel from Bangkok heading to Malaysia.

As we know, shipping by train is more cost effective
than truck. It is reasonable to do seriously promotion
of this mode of transportation.

Not just a campaign, but providing more and more,
container yard and truck terminal for mode changing
from rail to road.

For example, the intersection of southern rail line
and highway number 414 is one of the most high
potential site for doing this job.

Reduction of truck trip is a reduction of roads
maintenance cost and may be a reduction of emergency
care service cost for road accident.

http://www.easts2005.info/images/photosubmit_clip_image021.JPG

Title:"Back to the temple"
Description: A lot of man made vehicles were invented and then disappeared, from
steam locomotive to supersonic aircraft. Only walking is lasting
together with mankind.

No matter how expensive fossil fuels are, these 2 legs still keep on walking.

It is reasonable to us to pay more attention on walking, by providing
more and more walking friendly foot path and pedestrian crossing
facilities for all people, children, elderly people, eyesight
deficiency people and people with physical disabilities.

The earth is warming, so please let's go walking.

http://www.easts2005.info/images/photosubmit_clip_image022.jpg

Title: "Gone with the wind?"
Description: Two decades ago, the long distance trains from Hatyai to Bangkok contain around 22 cars. Now these trains are shorter than those times, they are only 16 cars left.

This is a chain reaction, the train always late so people did not
relied on the service and then they change to other mode of
transportations.
Since it's income decrease, the state railway did not dare to invest
for service improvement. Since the quality of services are low, the
passenger become decrease again.

To brighten up the train journey era, the state railway have to build
the dual track to increase capacity of rail system, improvement of
car's condition and passenger service and solving the accidents around
at grade intersection to give more reliability to this mode of
transportation.

I believe these pictures were first shown on http://www.rotfaithai.com.

Khun Wisaruth, I'd particularly like to know where that picture of the monk was taken? Glad if you could help! :)

rodfaithai

06-10-05, 08:42 PM

I'd particularly like to know where that picture of the monk was taken?

At Hatyai Junction.
About 700 m from the Station Building,
walk to the South along the Hatyai-Padang-Besar line.
The monk's position is on the right of Hatyai-Padang-Besar line.

Thank you very much.

-rodfaithai-

PS : How can you find my photo ?

GWR

07-10-05, 11:56 AM

Found with a Copernic Search Engine; although I have seen your photos before on ROTFAITHAI. Interesting pics! I thought that might be where the picture was taken. I guess you are referring to the siding built into the Livestock Quarantine Center, as there is a temple in that area too. Do you know when that siding was last used? I'm a bit wary about poking around railway land too much. Thai citizens can get away with it. For example, I recently found myself on government land entirely by accident, and one official was rather unhappy about it.

rodfaithai

27-04-06, 04:15 PM

Dear all,

I'll try to read all reply very soon.
I'm still busy about my Thesis,
I wish I could finish my Thesis before the first of June.

There are 2 photos to show, they were taken long time ago.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Cut-Off/?action=view&current=3590Canal.jpg
On the right is a canal, I could not remember the number of this canal.(may be number 4th)

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Cut-Off/?action=view&current=3597Canal.jpg
And this canal direct hit to the line, you can see the telegraph pole on the left. (This may be the canal number 5th)

GWR

27-04-06, 07:47 PM

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9402&postcount=72

rodfaithai

28-04-06, 10:33 AM

I guess my photo
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Cut-Off/?action=view&current=3597Canal.jpg
is a before
and yours
http://tinypic.com/dokr5k.jpg
is after

When did you visit this canal ?

And sometime in the future, the trackbed might be used for a transit project

This is one of my dream.
I did presented this idea in many meetings (about road and traffic)
in Songkhla time after time.

----------------------------------------------------------
More information about
1 'Yah Fet'
http://www.chaipat.or.th/journal/dec00/thai/t_vetiver.html
2 Tessabahn Nakorn Hat-Yai
http://www.hatyaicity.go.th/

-----------------------------------------------------------

The latest photos of this route..

http://www.yimsiam.com/club/board/topicRead.asp?wbID=fanrotfaithai&id=001047

These photo had been taken around Songkran Festival 2006.

rodfaithai

28-04-06, 10:58 AM

but what's that spur in the red circle? Probably not a railway track, but a road?

Yes, it is "Choke-Sa-Marn 5" Road

that the line of the original branch to Songkhla may be visible

Yup,
Let's see number "2"
there is a "white band" from "2" to the north west,
and then become closer to the Northern Line.

(I wish someone could go and explore this route with me in the future.)

I guess
- people use this embankment as a road and built their houses near by.
- this aerial photo was taken around 1986-1990
- From
http://www.yimsiam.com/club/board/topicRead.asp?wbID=fanrotfaithai&id=001047
this photo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/00104710.jpg
was the rail to BKK
and
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/0010478.jpg
the front rail (which covered by alphaltic road surface) is the rail to Hatyai Junction.
And the rail (which I guess above) is behind in the bush

GWR

28-04-06, 12:57 PM

I guess my photo
http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Cut-Off/?action=view&current=3597Canal.jpg
is a before
and yours
http://tinypic.com/dokr5k.jpg
is after

When did you visit this canal ?

The picture above was a bit over six months ago. But the last picture in the 'Hat-Yai Megaprojects' string was also taken over Songkran. Yes, I'm sure your picture and mine are the location, as I go there quite often.

Great pictures! Thanks!

GWR

28-04-06, 01:03 PM

Incidentally, the Khlong Toei Bridge lies right next to Ban Khlong Hae: the home village of Khun Chuwit.

Wrong! I'm now told that Khun Chuwit came from Khlong Ngae, on the railway to Padang and the road to Sadao.

Wisarut

28-04-06, 02:05 PM

Klogn Ngae station has very strian schedule .. They would allow ONLY Train 345 stop ... but NOT train 36 :) Smuggling Prevention ...

Imagine, when Hat Yai - Padang Besar had a LOT more stations in yeteryears includign Klong Ram (the last station before reaching Padang Besar) .... and Hat Yai - Butterworth Railcar alogn with Smugglign Express (Padang Besar - Hat Yai - Sugei Golok) ... :p

ncr

01-05-06, 01:29 AM

this photo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/00104710.jpg
was the rail to BKK
and
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/0010478.jpg
the front rail (which covered by alphaltic road surface) is the rail to Hatyai Junction.
And the rail (which I guess above) is behind in the bushSo the second picture is at point number 2 in the airphoto, looking north, right? Songkhla-Hat Yai branch (curving southwest) at the front, Songkhla-Bangkok branch (curving northwest) behind the bush?

GWR

01-05-06, 11:13 AM

So the second picture is at point number 2 in the airphoto, looking north, right? Songkhla-Hat Yai branch (curving southwest) at the front, Songkhla-Bangkok branch (curving northwest) behind the bush?

No! Sorry!This picture was taken to the East of Point 2. Although, there is probably less than 0.5 Km between the two points.

I have to admit I haven't really been reading everything thoroughly, just enjoying the photos. I think it would be a good idea to put the aerial photo link here and then my original list of corresponding numbers. I'm fairly confident of this list, as I get around this area quite a lot. The right-hand side of the aerial is North. The old Uttapao Junction was somewhere with the circle. There is POSSIBLE aerial evidence of the old branch from Uttapao to Songkhla on the photo, although I wouldn't place money on that: -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/2318U-Tapao.jpg

1 = Line to Bangkok
2 = The now completely disused Songkhla branch (although the first two kilometers [approx] were used as a bulk cement delivery spur until approx 2000/2001).
3 = Khlong Uttapao
5 = the North End of Thanon Rajuthit, home of the famed Hansa's Cafe.
6 = A flyover.
7 = Hat-Yai's Northern Bypass. It's possible that this picture was taken some time in the late 1980s, as the whole road still has the look of being 'under construction'; especially at 'Image Bottom'.

Now for that second picture: -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/0010478.jpg

The location of this picture is not located on the aerial photo. It is located just off the bottom (East) of the aerial, where the old Hat-Yai to Songkhla railway has a level-crossing. At this point,the railway crosses the northbound road from the Fountain Circle to the Northern Bypass. Big C is about a Km North (Right) of this crossing. Khun Rodfaithai is obviously standing on the eastern side of the crossing, looking approx NE. The Builder's Merchant in the background had it's own cement terminal. I last saw the crossing and the terminal being used by a cement tanker train in about 2001. So, the track in the foreground is the 'mainline' over the level-crossing, while the line behind the bush is just the bufferstop of a cement siding in my opinion. I can see no evidence that this second line ever crossed the road, as the embankment on the western side of the road is only wide enough for one track.

I'll take another look at this location again sometime. I think you might be both (NCR & RodfaiThai) be suggesting that this crossing was the point where the original Uttapao bifurcation to Songkhla met the present Hat-Yai Junction bifurcation to Songkhla. I doubt it! The aerial photo SUGGESTS that the two bifurcations met further West than this picture.

Anyone who wants to explore this track might want to call me. ;-)

rodfaithai

01-05-06, 09:35 PM

So sorrry for confusion

- This pic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/0010478.jpg
had taken by Khun "TUM" his ID in Rotfaithai.com is "Out_Runner"

- "The right-hand side of the aerial is North"
That's Right

- "The old Uttapao Junction was somewhere with the circle"
That's Right

"The location of this picture is not located on the aerial photo"
That's Right

pic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/0010478.jpg
is at point "B"
in
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/?action=view&current=452CBDnew.jpg
and
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/?action=view&current=452Low.jpg
whole map
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/Map/?action=view&current=HDYMap.gif

- "while the line behind the bush is just the bufferstop "
Let's survey all over that area (to draw the "track map")
The line that cross the "Nipatsongkroh 1 Road" is a branch of the "buffer stop"
(the line from "buffer stop" is a straight line to Songkhla)

However, I'm still not sure.
I have to check my photo stock from my previous survey.
And may be we have to survey this area and draw track map again.

"the embankment on the western side of the road is only wide enough for one track"
That's right.

"Anyone who wants to explore this track might want to call me. ;-)"
me too
rodfaithai@yahoo.com

rodfaithai

01-05-06, 10:15 PM

I just check my photos stock

The aerial photo had taken on March 14th, 1990 by "561 Squadron" with 1 : 5,000 scale

ncr

01-05-06, 11:36 PM

...with 1 : 5,000 scaleSorry to disagree, but I think that must be 1:50,000 (1 cm = 500m). You can check it by measuring around on the image; comes pretty close.

Of course I have no idea whether the digital image was reduced in size from the original. But not 1:5,000, in any case. The RTAF doesn't have such airphotos. 1:20,000 at best.

GWR

02-05-06, 12:25 AM

"while the line behind the bush is just the bufferstop "
Let's survey all over that area (to draw the "track map")
The line that cross the "Nipatsongkroh 1 Road" is a branch of the "buffer stop"
(the line from "buffer stop" is a straight line to Songkhla)

You're probably right about the track layout. The trains used to end up over on that track so the cement could be pumped into the silos of Cementhai. I tend not to go poking around too much on these sites for fear of being accused of trespassing. For all I know its Cementhai private property. I seem to remember that until fairly recently there were still cement tankers parked on that stretch of track, seemingly marooned by the Highways Dept having tarmacked over the tracks. Maybe they are still there. I'll check it out.

rodfaithai

02-05-06, 10:07 PM

I'm still not sure about that track.

A photo in my stock shown that
"there are 3 track in that area"

However only site survey can solve this problem.

We can ask for allowance from the store manager.

"Sorry to disagree"

So sorry, the scale had changed because this is a copy photo.
The original photo is post on a board, and then I stand by side by side and press shutter.
The original photos stored at Hatyai City Municipality.

"The RTAF doesn't have such airphotos. 1:20,000 at best."
I thing so, the 1997 photos too blur to give any detail.

I've heard from insider that..
there is an airplane with a brand new Map drawing equipment
had sunk somewhere in Songkhla Lake.
The reason of this crash was this plane was overloaded.

GWR

03-05-06, 11:05 AM

I would certainly be interested in some kind of site survey of this and other sites on the track. Although there are obviously RTSD 1:50,000 maps that show the old trackbed, it might not be a bad idea to take some GPS readings for publication here.

Problem is, I don't have any days off work for a while. So, I guess we will have to discuss this by-and-by.

Khun Rodfaithai? Do you have any connection with Hat-Yai Tessabahn's intended city museum, which is projected for sometime this year? Methinks that a Hat-Yai City Museum without railway content would be to miss the point completely. There is no doubt in my mind that Hat-Yai would never have materialised without the plans for Uttapao Junction and Hat-Yai Junction. Especially since it was probably Khun Niphat who coined its current name.

Wisarut

03-05-06, 12:19 PM

Definitely, Hat Yai Museum MUTS have the railway Section as one of Major Part .... withotu Railway, Hatyai would Never Exist :p

GWR

03-05-06, 02:39 PM

Is there still talk of a regional railway museum in Yai Khun W? The city only has a philatelic museum at present?

rodfaithai

04-05-06, 03:45 PM

without Railway, Hatyai would Never Exist

I agree

Hatyai City Municipality's Consultant Team is collecting Hatyai History Data to write formal history.

I anyone have any data about Hatyai and Railway to add to the history, I'll bring to the writing team.

There is a library in the Municipality Park.
Last year there was a Songkhla old/ancient photo contest and exhibition.
But I was too busy to visit.
I think there are some photos still over there.

GWR

17-12-06, 08:49 PM

The terminus of the disused and partially dismantled Hat-Yai to Songkhla branchline. I'm told a formal closure notice was never issued: -

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=721926

Photographs of the old station: -

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/srt/songkhlastation.shtml

Wisarut

27-10-07, 08:24 PM

Now, I just take a trip to see the current condition of Songkla station

I've foudn that the good old cafe is still in service ... at least on weekends.

I have nto found the ticket counter of SRT whcih seel the ticket to take a train at hat Ya ... probably this section is OPENED on weekdays ... :rolleyes:

Whne I take Pho Thong bus (old route), I have spotted thew statrion buiuldign of Kuan Hin .... even though I could not spotted the iron bride at Nam Noy as Khun Ron has shown long time ago yet.
:rolleyes:

Wisarut

07-11-07, 07:57 AM

GWR

07-11-07, 08:31 AM

Bad New, the station sign of Singkla station is abotu to be Demolished to make the way for commercial area! :(

Look at this and you'll see:

http://portal.rotfaithai.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1970

Well, Khun Wisaruth! If someone got it in their mind to buy this sign, how would they deal with the necessary bureaucracy? Also, perhaps you already have this in mind yourself!? I'd be in favor of placing this in a local museum. But if not there, anywhere locally it can be protected and given the occasional paint job. Perhaps even at the railway cafe!? But ideally, I would like to see it preserved so that it can be re-erected at any future Songkhla rail/transit station.

Wisarut

07-11-07, 12:29 PM

Yeas, it is deserved a place in National museum in Songkla at any sense

GWR

07-11-07, 01:24 PM

But seriously! Is there a way to buy this sign or divert it to a new home? Or would it be better to just spirit it away on dark night and dump it on the doorstep of the museum?

GWR

19-11-07, 08:51 AM

You're probably right about the track layout. The trains used to end up over on that track so the cement could be pumped into the silos of Cementhai. I tend not to go poking around too much on these sites for fear of being accused of trespassing. For all I know its Cementhai private property. I seem to remember that until fairly recently there were still cement tankers parked on that stretch of track, seemingly marooned by the Highways Dept having tarmacked over the tracks. Maybe they are still there. I'll check it out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/rodfaithai/other%20photographer/Songkhla%20Line/0010478.jpg
[Photo: Taken over a year ago, at the site of this project. This view looking North.]

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4947&postcount=51

At the old railway crossing on Niphat Songkraw 1 (NS1) Road, the embankment on the Cementhai (East) side seems to be being bulldozed to make it easier for southbound traffic to turn left onto the Khlong Hae distributor road (Rattakarn Road). Anyone who has been shopping at Big C will know that there is a road that runs South out of their carpark and runs parallel to NS 1, and then joins it just North of the crossing. This road is being widened. The idea is probably to make exits from Big C quicker, and to serve a rapidly-developing residential area. The widened crossing would connect up with this parallel road to ease congestion on the intersection just South of the crossing.

Or is there more to it than that!? I'm also wondering if they are soon going to extend the Klong Hae distributor all the way to the park, as has long been envisaged.

See also related posts on the old Hat-Yai to Songkhla railway north of Hat-Yai:

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9572&postcount=195
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9566&postcount=192
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9560&postcount=191
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9555&postcount=190
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9529&postcount=187
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9528&postcount=186
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9527&postcount=185
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9402&postcount=72
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=9522&postcount=183

GWR

03-01-08, 02:24 PM

Yes, they are widening the road across this old level-crossing. Sensibly, they have obviously decided not to bulldoze the embankment. This is probably because it acts as a flood-dike, to protect the urban area::)

...........

At the old railway crossing on Niphat Songkraw 1 (NS1) Road, the embankment on the Cementhai (East) side seems to be being bulldozed to make it easier for southbound traffic to turn left onto the Khlong Hae distributor road (Rattakarn Road). Anyone who has been shopping at Big C will know that there is a road that runs South out of their carpark and runs parallel to NS 1, and then joins it just North of the crossing. This road is being widened. The idea is probably to make exits from Big C quicker, and to serve a rapidly-developing residential area. The widened crossing would connect up with this parallel road to ease congestion on the intersection just South of the crossing.

Or is there more to it than that!? I'm also wondering if they are soon going to extend the Klong Hae distributor all the way to the park, as has long been envisaged.

...........

GWR

16-02-08, 11:39 PM

See also two previous posts

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2443/dsc00004cm9.jpg?s=1

The wider level-crossing is now complete and in use. Picture from the North on the local frontage road side of the crossing. The rail tracks are still buried under the road surface just past the point where you see the car moving away from the camera. Interestingly, some road planner has been considerate enough to leave a special gap in the reservation between the main road and the frontage road that is wide enough for the reinstatement of a single track. This is probably not a fanciful notion. It has almost certainly designed in this manner at the behest of SRT and/or eager local planners.

Note also that no effort has been made to bulldoze the embankment for either road. SRT probably wouldn't give permission for that, and it is undoubtedly a flood barrier in its own right. Local flood alleviation work near this old railway (a few kms East), a few years back, involved the removal of a short stretch of the railway embankment. The bulldozed section was eventually reinstated - for both future rail use and flood protection purposes.

GWR

08-04-08, 11:06 PM

Or more precisely:Indian Troops crossed the border with an armoured train soon after the Japanese invasions at 'Singora' & Pattani.
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=4512#post4512
One Lieutenant-General Percival reported back to the British Govt (in 1946[POW?] that this detachment then proceeded to demolish a substantial railway bridge over a river on the Thai side.
I'd be interested to find out which bridge copped it (I explored the road running parallel to the railway from Padang to Khlong Ngae recently). And how long before it was pressed back into action?

A link & a quote from one of my posts in another subforum today. I suspect Khun Wisaruth might want to provide some input on this. (Khun Wiz - I think the gent in question would probably enjoy talking to someone with an intimate and detailed knowledge of Thai rail history. Let me know if you are at all interested!)

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=20634&postcount=7

Khlong Ngae Bridge & a whole lot more!
Sometimes the answers come looking for you.

Today I met an ex-railwayman by the name of Raluk Dunn (perhaps Dun) who was present in Hat-Yai during the WW2 era. (He must have been very young.) I asked him about the demolition of the bridge at Khlong Ngae and his comment was that the damage was so limited that trains were still able to pass over it.

Raluk had some other rather interesting things to tell me. His Scottish grandfather, W.N. Dunn (No one seems to know what the initials stood for), was the first British Consul in Songkhla. He married locally, and his son - Somboon Dunn - became a railway engineer at Kaeng Koi and some other places in the North-East before returning to work at Hat-Yai Junction. I was shown two pictures of Somboon: One as a boy in the compound of the British Consulate in Songkhla (He went to high school in Penang and Assumption College in Bangkok.) and a later one in a Thai Railway uniform.

Somboon later worked in Hat-Yai during WW2. Somboon was treated with suspicion by the Japanese, but his Thai railway uniform and engineer status was enough to protect him for the duration of the war.

Now, I didn't really have enough time to get the full story, but it appears that Somboon was eventually given some sort of honorary knighthood by Queen Elizabeth 2 for his assistance to POWs and expat internees.

I promised the family I would try and find some photos and extra information on W.N. Dunn and Somboon Dunn. So far I have found some internet evidence that a W.N. Dunn was at the Consulate in this approximate era, but no real detail. I am a bit hampered by the lack of a first and middle name. And because there were a lot of other subjects also to be talked about, I didn't get to ask that many questions.
Related topic:
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=20649#post20649

Jromerz

09-04-08, 12:53 AM

So where in Hat Yai was the British Consule located? Does it still exist?

GWR

09-04-08, 01:08 AM

Actually, Songkhla. The Malaysian Consulate now stands on the site. The original building no longer exists.

There are also Chinese and Indonesian Consulates with the future possibility of an Indian Consulate. The Chinese Consulate was the US Consulate until about 15 years back

GWR

20-04-08, 12:32 AM

A link & a quote from one of my posts in another subforum today. I suspect Khun Wisaruth might want to provide some input on this. (Khun Wiz - I think the gent in question would probably enjoy talking to someone with an intimate and detailed knowledge of Thai rail history. Let me know if you are at all interested!)

I'm looking for information on a railway engineer called Somboon Dunn.

He always signed himself บ. ดันน์, short for Bor. Dunn, short for Boon Dunn.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8084/somboondunnbl5.jpg
[Photo Scan courtesy of the Dunn family in Hat-Yai.]

Somboon Dunn
1908-1963

Pictured above in a about 1915 at the British Consulate in Songkhla, where his father William Norman (W.N.) Dunn was the Vice-Consul. The smaller picture is of Somboon in his Thai Railway uniform.

Somboon went to high school in Penang, and later Assumption College in Bangkok.

He worked as some kind of railway engineer at Kaeng-Koi and Korat. He witnessed some of the events of the Boworadet Rebellion, and had some knowledge of the infamous 'Hanomag Incident'.

He worked at Hat-Yai Junction during WW2. He was treated with some suspicion by the occupying Japanese, but his railway uniform and Thai nationality gave him a degree of protection from them.

One of his son's, Raluk also worked on the railways at Hat-Yai Junction. Indeed, Raluk's son still works in the local railway workshop.

It is said that Somboon received some sort of honorary knighthood from Queen Elizabeth 2 for helping POWs and internees of the Japanese. As an non-Brit, he would not have been able to use 'Sir'. I have some doubts about this claim. (I note that Khun Boonpong of Ban Pong & death railway fame received either a George Medal or an MBE from QE2.)

Somboon died in Bangkok in 1963. Probably in Prapadaeng, where some of his sons still live.

W.N. Dunn (Somboon's father) was born in the UK in 1873. Educated at Shrewsbury School and Trinity College Oxford. He came to Thailand in 1897 as a student translator at the British Consulate. He later became a Vice-Consul. He married a well-connected Mon woman called Sanor, who is thought to have never spoken English. He set up the British consulate in Songkhla and later became Vice-Consul and Consul in places like Saigon, Batavia (Jakarta), Rotterdam & Cologne. His Thai wife chose not to follow him to these place. He retired in 1927 and it is thought he did not return to Thailand at that point. He died in 1961. Final resting place unknown.