Bang Buathong Railway

[Wisarut]

Khun Reiner, beware when you are using map formk Krom Phaengthee Thaharn though ... Sometimes thye have kept the outdated data on the map -> e.g. when Bangbua Thong Rialway has removed the section from Bang Seethong to Wat Chaloem Phrakiat so as to construct the new line from Bang Seethong intersection to Bang Seethong Pier (the pier opposited to the Nonthaburi provincial hall) in 1930, the Military Survey has NOT corrected the route yet even though they CLIAMED that the data was collect in early 1931.

Even after BAngbuathong Railway was out of business in July 1942 and the rail have been removed shortly, the Military survey has only shoen ONLY the trace correspondent to the formaer Bang Buathong Railway but NOT the new road - even though the Highway Dept had constructed the new rroad to repace that railway ...

[admin]

Dick van der Spek is looking for info to make a map of the Bang Bua Thong Railway.

Do any 2B readers have details?

[Wisarut]

I have one in my hand from National Archieve pubished in 1930.

[pong]

this is just from curiosity: where did this line actually start in Thonburi? or was it just west from Nonthaburi/already in that province? in that case, it likely just followed the road where the 1001 BangBuaThongKonsong bus now runs, I think.

[Wisarut]

KHun Pong,

The line started near Wat boworn Mongkhon (Wat Lingkhob) ... The line has passed through the orchards, Bang Bumru station (then Bang Bumnru Stop) and then branched out to Bang Yai, Bang Bang Sithogn Pier (the pier to Nonthaburi)

You better folloign Bang Kruay - Sai Noy roasd whcih used be the trackbed of
Bang Buathogn railway.

[Wisarut]

Khun Hatyai Junction, you better dig up the concessions between the miner & timber companies and Railway Dept to find more information thsoe Industrial Railway whcih lead into the mines (tin mins or iron mines) as well as timber railways ....

BTW, the defunct Bang Buathogn railway also fucntion as the way to distribute sugar + rice from Lat Lum Kaeo to Bangbua thong, Nonthaburi, Thonburi and BKK in addtion to pasenger services ...
Same can be said to the defunct Phra Phutthabat railway ... carrying the timber, rock, motar from Phra Phutthabat to Tha ruea
in addtion to the seasonal passenger service to Phra Phutthabat.

[dick]

I start with making the map Bang Bua Thong in February. First I make the trackmap with stations as far I know. Where was (were) the depot(s)?

[Wisarut]

At Wat Ling Khob (Waty boworn Mongkhon) ...

[The Enforcer!]

Great map of the front page http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/MassTransit/map/BangBuathongRailway.jpg - any idea where the stayions wre located or indeed what stations there were?

The Enforcer!

[dick]

Dear members of the forum,
Making the maps of Ban Buathong Railway and trammap Bangkok (thai version) is delayed for about six weeks.
Apologize,
Dick

[dick]

Making the Ban Buathon Railway map.
Some Questions.
The mainline was from the station not far from Ban Mon Kon temple (km 0.0) to the station not far from Ra Haeng temple (= km 511) in Amphoe Lad Lum Kaeo. Then, there was a branche from km 25.5 (= Ban Bua Thong) crossing the Bang Kra Suayson Canal to a point just opposite Phatum Thani (Old); or was it n o t a branch but a proposed line? Somewhere we can read: "The junction which is cancelled by Royal permission from His Majesty the King"
If the line existed, even for a short period, was date I can give by the text "Line abandoned in ?" or "Line dismantled in ?" And date of opening of course. I like to mention the dates to make the map more complete.
If the branch never exist, than a correction on my map Greater Bangkok is necessary and also my source (an old 250000 scale map) is incorrect.

Then, there was a short branch to the river close to Nonthaburi (new), Bang Khwang. When was this opened? And still in exploitation until closing of the line?
Also there was a very short branch from the mainline to km. 11.0, opposite
Nonthaburi (Old)? Or was it just a plan?
Stations and stops? Of course, but what are the locations and the names? Bang Kuay (km. 5.8)? Bang Si Mueng? Bang Phla? Jumpi Canal? Ban Laem Canal? What are the dates of opening and closure for the branche to Bang Yai Canal (km.17.4)?
Last question for this time: where could we find the depot(s).
I hope some of the member can help me.
Dick

[Wisarut]

Khun Dick

Ban Mon Kon temple (km 0.0) -> Error It shoudl be called as
"Wat BowornMongkhon" (AKA Wat Ling khob)

The terminal (aswellasthe depot) is near Wat Rahaeng (the old name of LadLumkaeo district, pathum Thani).Beofre the extension I guess that teh depot is at Wat Boworn Mongkhon though

The initial contract with RSR in 1922 stated tat the line should be at
Bang Buathong, Wat Chaloem Phra Kiat (the pier opposite to the old Nonthaburi provincial Hall), and the pier opposite to the old Pathum Thani
provincial hall even though Phraya Woraphongphiphat (MR Yen Issarasena Na Ayutthaya) intended to extend the line to Rahaeng district of Pathum Thani.

The correction from the pier opposite to Pathum Thani Provincial Hall to Wat Rahaeng in Lad Lumkaeo District (the district name has been changed)
has been done in the new contract of 1930 which allowed Bang Buathong Railway Co.Ltd. to remove the track at Wat Chaloem Phrakiat to Bang Sithong Pier (the pier opposite to the NEW Nonthaburi Provincial Hall in Bang Kwang).

NOPE, the line opposte to Pathumthani Provincial hall did not exist in reality since Phraya Woraphongphiphat intended to extend the track to Lad Lumkaeowhen the district was "Rahaeng".

The line to the Old Nonthaburi provincial hall near Wat Chaloem Phrakiat DID opened since PhrayaWoraphongse has intended to serve both his relatives who live in Wat Chaloem Phrakiat area and those who worked in the oldNonthaburi provincial Hall.

The short Branch at Bang Yai (km 17.4 -> near Bang Yai canal) was for loading paddy from the rice barges and fruits from the orchards around
that area.

Bang Kruay Station (km 5.8) -> NOT Bang Kuay please.

Bang Si Muang, it is the pier opposite to the New Nonthaburi Provincial
Hall at Bang kwang.

Bang Ploo? -> near Bang Ploo canal of course.

Bang Phla? No so sure until I read the map
Jumpi canal? Not so sure about that canal
Ban Laem Canal? Not so sure abotu that.

I have NEVER seen the published annual reporton Bang Buathong
railway at all even though I DID dig up the source in National Archieves.

[dick]

Thanks Khun Wisarut for the additional information.
Allow me some more questions.
Wat Boworn Mongkhon is km. 0.0
Bang Kruay km.5.8
But, a little bit west from Bang Si Mueng, we see Km. 15.8, than Km 17.4 for the branch to Bang Yai. I wonder, the map is approx. 1 to 50.000, so the distance seems to me to short, but okay, I can live with. But just north of Mae Nam On Canal I see Km 39.19 and than, more north, Km 25.5 (=Ban Bua Thong close to Phra Pimon Canal.)
Can you help me with Km 39.19? Is Km 19.19 realistic?
Are you agree when I write in the legend for the line to Pathum Thani : an old branch?
The sources for the stations is in my opinion poor. I think we don't explane them in the legend. If we can discover later the correct places of stops and stations, we can still put them in the map, I think.

[Wisarut]

Well, Mae Nam Om canal -> NOT Mae Nam On Canal please
Not so sure if it is the type error or otherwise, but probably 19.19 km
but you needto record that the original data is 39.19 km

For the case of the branch line to the pier opposite to the old
Pathum Thani Provincial Hall, just record this branchas "proposed in 1922
but scrapped in 1930."

Well, I'll try digging up more data and I'll print the list of stations and
stops along Bang Buathong railway in addition to the terminals if I coudl find them all.

[ncr]

Khun Dick,

Another nice map. Thanks!

However, I'd like to suggest some corrections/additions:

1. Now you placed the star (indicating "proposed in 1922, but scrapped in 1930") on the wrong branch.... This applies to the Bang Bua Thong - Pathum Thani section in the north. Actually you could write that right into the map, there's enough space.
The branch to Wat Chalerm Phrakiat, on the other hand, did exist for some time before being dismantled in 1930 - it wasn't just proposed (see Khun Wisarut's explanations in this thread).

2. For the Bang Bua Thong - Wat Rahaeng section, "opened 1930" could be added.

3. "Bang Bum Lu" should be written as Bang Bamru.

4. Typo in the title: Bang (with "g") Bua Thong please. And maybe you could add the dates for the line: opened 1915 - closed 16 July 1942.

Apart from that, continue the good work! I know many people here enjoy your maps.

[dick]

Dear NCR,
Thanks for the suggestions and corrections. I wait until the end of this month, maybe there will be more corrections about this map. Than I will update it for a new version (and a new scan, Sorry Ron). It's still a pity that I cannot give stations and stops.
But also in the Netherlands there are still several companies with secrets.

[Wisarut]

Well, Khun Dick -> Wat Lamut (Wat Vimutayaram) NOT Wat Samut :)

[The Enforcer!]

Sorry to post a query but where were the stations?

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Sorry to post a query but where were the stations?

The Enforcer!Apparently it's very hard to find out for sure (as discussed in posts #3 and #4 above).....

[Wisarut]

Wat Lamut is in the western side of Rama 6 Bridge though :p

[Maverick]

There was an article about Ban Buathong railway history written in
the pocket book magazine so called ต่วยตูน

It explained who is the owner of this railway, its constrction, the accident and the end.

I have read it myself at my parents home, unfortunately I could not find this book again or even remember its issued number.
It took me the whole day at my parents home yesterday in upcountry just to find that book for everyboday here.

If anybody would have that pocket book please tell me the issued number
or very appreciate if I can get a scan copy.

[Wisarut]

I have one of that story about Bang Buathong railway in my home ... but I lost the other issue ... better look around though ;)

[dick]

I try to make the map so complete as possible. But the information about stops and stations is poor. I think better to give no stations than some we know by accident. Otherwise the map is out of balance.
Are there no schedules of this line? Mostly we can find most of the stations in. But I know that next question will be: stations by opening of the line or at the end of exploitation. Therefore I (we) had some difficulties by making the Pak Nam railroad map. And also I have this problem by writing an article about the old tramway companies in Brooklyn (New York) between 1870 and 1910.

As told before, at the end of this month I make an upgrade of the map according to the correction of the connoisseurs. But you will understand that it will give me (us) pleasure if we can fill in the names of the stations and stops!

P.S. It's always difficult for the Dutch, sometimes we see Ban, sometimes Bang.
I chanche the title in Bang.

[The Enforcer!]

It explained who is the owner of this railway, its constrction, the accident and the end.
The accident?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

The accident of Head-On Collision since there were to Telegraph system or
the semaphores at the passing loop ... so they have to use theri own instince to run into/rush out of the passing loop ...

After the head-on collision, the loco driver had manage to go back to the terminal... but DIED duye to the hemmorahge in the intergnal organs at that night. :(

[dick]

Sorry, I meant accidental, casual. Another possibility is that there were no stops en route. By some companies it was customary to stop by request in the prehistoric time of exploitation.

[von Hirschhorn]

:)

Unfortunate I do not have any additional information concerning the BBT but I do have a picture I presume is the BBT. A Baquely locomotive hauls coaches by cable to the other track – probably in order to reverse. This at an end station short after arriving. Which station unknown at least I don’t know.
After closure the Baquely’s moved to the sugar factories in the North. The one on plinth at the Wang Khapi factory resemble most this engine you can see here: http://tinypic.com/67pqhx.jpg

[dick]

Next week I will do the corrections on the B. Bua-map. But...is there maybe a schedule of this railwayline in an archive? It will give more satisfaction if we can show the stations and stops on the map. Another possibility: the stations we know for sure I can put on the map; others with a remark. What do the members think about this?

[GWR]

Anyone able to identify this picture of a loco and where it might have been taken in the 1950s. It is simply entitled 'Railway Journey in the Jungle', and I haven't been able to locate the letter that describes it as yet:-

http://www.averin.btinternet.co.uk/large/Train.jpg

See this thread for further background:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=6358#post6358

[Wisarut]

That is probbaly Mae Klong Loco No. 7

[von Hirschhorn]

The latter again almost eight months ago and that’s a pity because this line is worth a visit all days year around. However, still there are missing links, especially good and nice pictures of the famous run in the middle of the Thanon Charoen Rat – the section from Wong Wian Yai station till Khlong San – and closed in the early sixties. I only know one picture out from a SRT brochure with a loco plus single coach and passenger boarding, just like a tram who accidentally by the time of taking this pictures did not longer operate.
http://i4.tinypic.com/25tunvq.jpg
The second picture shows the Khlong San station. (or I am mistaken) http://i2.tinypic.com/25tuu50.jpg
Here the overhead construction is still in place. Also see the fairly good looking steamer, this could be one of the two Henschels delivered as the last batch ever for the SRT in the early fifties. So the whole gives a rough idea what year the pictures was taking.
If my assumptions are fully wrong I like to hear corrections. Furthermore would it be marvelous if other pictures of the Charoen Rat Road were available for posting. Wally Higgins maybe?

[Wisarut]

Well, SRT has put SLM 651 into Maerklong Line since 1959-1960 and you see Teikoku Railway behidn SLM 651 ... So it is around 1959-1960 for sure

For the case of Klong Sarn station, yeah it is possible that this loco is Henschel 11-12 sicne it looks mcuh bigger than the olf tank locos in that line, so it must be some time aroudn 1952 (the first year of Henschel Pacific 11-12)

[GWR]

While looking at a website on the history of mapping in Thailand, I discovered this rather low resolution map scan with some portrayal of the Ban Buathong Railway:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=11627#post11627

http://rooneyarchive.net/lectures/lec-maps_intro/images/25.jpg

A detail of a town plan of Bangkok of 1931 is an example of full-fledged Thai cartography (Plate 25). It was printed in four colours which were used to depict symbols. Toponyms on this map are in English. It identifies wooden buildings, railway tracks, dykes, boundaries, and even foot paths. Aerial photography for maps was introduced later in the twentieth century.

[gwmss15]

some parts of the top end of the railway line can be traced out using google earth program as a narrow dirt strip that is dead stright to some where in pathum thani the line can be tracked from bua ba tong area to its northen most point

what i would like to know is it possiable for anyone who as a car to go and have a look along this narrow strip of dirt most of it is north of the western ring road

has anyone else seen this on google earth.

if someone goes there and maybe some of the older people in the area might know something about this train line.

when im in bangkok next may ill go an have a look my self too.