Ayutthaya:Dutch account 1665

[Okya Senaphimuk]

Hi there. I am a historian researching on 17th c. Ayutthaya, in particular on the presence of the Japanese. Is anybody interested in discussing this topic?
Thank You!

[GWR]

I keep reading very brief references to the early Japanese presence in places like Singora & Pattani. Do you have any references, data or links on this or any of the other trading expats down south?

[numpty]

Hi

I've been doing some research on Ayuthya and have come up with some information regarding the Japanese.

I'm not sure how much I know compared to you but feel free to ask

Here's something about Phaulkon the Greek:-

http://www.the-spiceislands.com/Thailand/greek.htm

[numpty]

GWR

This is something I dug up about Pattani. Not started Songkla yet

http://www.the-spiceislands.com/Thailand/pattani.htm

[GWR]

I gather there is a certain body of opinion that the Phaulkon Constantine story may have a few mythical elements in it. That said, think of all those expats who get seconded into handling the special tasks of university International Affairs offices; only to be hacked down a few years later when they become a little too haughty for local comfort. ;)

Here's a timeframe article for quick reference purposes:-

http://marabu1.tripod.com/SIAM.HTM

Khun Numpty initiated this subject by providing us with the following link:-


I've been doing some research on Ayuthaya and have come up with some information regarding the Japanese.

Here's something about Phaulkon the Greek:-

http://www.the-spiceislands.com/Thailand/greek.htm

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=7874#post7874

There's also this:-

http://www.simply-thai.com/Thailand_History_Ayutthaya_Period_9.htm

And an article examining the 'myth or reality' thing[which I admit I have yet to read!]:-

http://www.hawaii.edu/cseas/pubs/explore/v4/strach.html

And some interesting contemporary comments on the myth elsewhere on 2BKK:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=7875&postcount=14

[GWR]

I've opened a special thread for 'Phaulkon Constantine', and taken the liberty of moving Numpty's link there too:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=7873#post7873

[Okya Senaphimuk]

GWR

This is something I dug up about Pattani. Not started Songkla yet

http://www.the-spiceislands.com/Thailand/pattani.htm

Thank you so much for all your answers and comments.

My attention was caught by this paragraph:

"At that time Japanese pirates were the scourge of the seas 'feared in all places where they come,' while highly prized as mercenaries. The first Dutch factory in Pattani was destroyed in 1605 by pirates, no doubt why Floris was so keen on acquiring a sturdy, permanent house. On at least one other occasion had they attacked and burned the town in recent years and with other more local dangers one can imagine hid desire for solid brick. "

First, according to my research, the Japanese Pirates, the "Wako," started their activities already in the 13th c. By the period we're discussing, 16th, 17th c., this group were a mixture of Japanese, Chinese, Korean with of course SE Asians and even Portuguese in their ranks.

I knew that in 1605 a British ship was sunk and the captain killed just off Pattani by wako pirates, and some of them were certainly Japanese. I did not know however about the Dutch factory... do you have any source to pass regarding this specific incident??

Finally, as you said, the Japanese were highly prized as mercenaries, so perhaps I won't state that they were not welcome in Thailand. The Royal Chronicles of Ayutthaya (translated by Cushman, published in 2000) report that there was a division of 500 Japanese "volunteers" who fought alongside the Thai against the Burmese since the 1590. So, I think it is important to specity "which" Japanese were welcome (pro-Thai warriors, merchants, etc.) and which were not (pirates and otehr troublemakers).

Thank you again for your input!!
Cesare

[GWR]

Ian Morson, 1999 - 'Four Hundred Years:Britain & Thailand: An Informal Presentation'

Available just about everywhere in Thailand that has even a few English language books. Not to be confused with 'Ian Nairne Morson', the UK-based novelist.

Truthfully, it's not the most academic volume; hence his own listing as 'an informal presentation'. Chapters 2 & 3 have quite a lot about the Ayutthaya Era, but not much about the Japanese. So you may find it a bit basic if you are already well involved in this topic. And Morson's style of writing is a bit unusual, to boot!

He certainly covers 'Floris' & friends, but the detail is quite similar to that in Khun Numpty's linker. No extra detail about the 'godown' in Pattani, I'm afraid!

[Okya Senaphimuk]

This is an "old" paper of mine on the topic...

http://www.samurai-archives.com/jia.html

At the bottom of the paper, you can find a list of most of the main sources. Anyway, I am working now on my MA thesis, which greatly expands this early research, and adds a lot of new material.

I hope you find it interesting. I still think is a quite good paper, even if there are a couple of mistakes. (No commerce in gunpowder, that was due to an error in a source; and the Spanish missionaries were actually... Portuguese.)

[GWR]

Imagine this may be of interest. It's a Siam Society Book list. At the bottom of this page, there is also a link to a second book page. There are several books on the Ayuttahya Era, but I note this particular book is not in your bibliography:-

http://www.siam-society.org/public/index.asp

http://www.siam-society.org/public/images/witness.gif

WITNESSES TO A REVOLUTION:
SIAM 1688

Edited and translated by Michael Smithies

Intrigue, mystery, murder, double-dealing, corruption, and deception are all found in the accounts of the twelve persons (three of whom are anonymous and hitherto unpublished) who describe here their roles in the dramatic events of 1688 in Siam surrounding the coup d’état of Phetracha and the death of King Narai.

The succession was complicated by the role of Constantine Phaulkon, a Greek adventurer who acted, without the title, as minister of foreign affairs and trade, and who cultivated the French presence in the country to support his own position. The French had stationed troops in Bangkok, “the key to the Kingdom” and Mergui, on the Bay of Bengal, and became hopelessly embroiled in events beyond their comprehension, leading to their retreat in November that year.

Professor Michael Smithies, Honorary Member of the Siam Society, has studied this period for several years. He has done a great service in bringing together and translating these texts. They give fascinating insights into the conspiracies, self-interest and betrayal that characterized so many of the participants. His book is a serious work of scholarship, but can also be read as an adventure

[Okya Senaphimuk]

Thanks very much for the books' suggestion. Since my research is for the most limited to the Japanese and Yamada Nagamasa, I am concerned especially with the years from 1580 to 1635. Few Japanese remained after these years, even thou some of them were involved in the coup of 1656, and Phalukon's wife happened to be Japanese (but perhaps at this point we should talk of Japanese-Thai). However, little by little I am expanding my horizons about Ayutthaya's history, so these extra sources are surely interesting. I am planning to buy A LOT of books when I will visit next May :)

Now, I would have a question I really hope some of you could answer:

"What is the mainstream opinion of today's Thai about Yamanda Nagamasa and the Japanese who lived in Ayutthaya in the early 17th c. ?"

The question, posed in this way sounds tricky, but perhaps there is a simple way to answer it, and maybe some of you could do that for me: just check your (Thai) Junior High School and High School textbooks. What do they say about Nagamasa and the Japanese? How much space they dedicate to them? Are there any adjectives to comment on the behaviors of the Japanese, or the simple, plain facts are reported? Are such eventual opinions somehow influenced by the good-relations between the Thai and Japanese governments today?

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

[rosmci]

Can anyone recommend any books in English about Ayutthaya in the period between Ma Huan's visit in 1433 and the visiting Iranian scribe who was on the Ship of Suliaman in 1687? These accounts are fascinating, and if there are other traveller's accounts from the intervening period I'd like read them too, especially any that shed more light on the massive changes that occurred between the Chinese and Persian visits. Thanks very much for any suggestions.

[Ahoerstemeier]

There's the quite detailed written account of Jeremias van Vliet, the director of the dutch trading post in Ayutthaya. It is only a bit before your final date, written in the years 1637-42, but definitely worth reading.

David K. Wyatt et.al. Van Vliet's Siam. Silkworm Books, Chiang Mai 2005, ISBN 974-9575-81-4

[rosmci]

Thanks very much for putting me on to Jeremias Van Vliet. When I "googled" him, to get the book, I discovered www.exlibron.com for the first time, and mention of another Hollander, Peter Williamson Floris.

Googling Floris turned up a free text in Project Gutenberg, a place I hadn't thought of searching. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/13366/13366-8.txt contains Floris's account of a "Voyage to Pullicatt, Patapilly, Bantam, Patane, and Siam" with the English East India Company around 1612-1613.

It is interesting reading, though Floris himself seems to have been dropped off in Pattani while the ship went on to Ayutthaya. The "first hand material" is about the Queen of Pattani. He also recounts "second hand" reports of a Japanese revolt in Ayutthaya, and an attempted siege of Ayutthaya by the King of Laos.

[GWR]

Three days in Old Siam
From the gossipy account of a Dutch traveller's trip to Ayutthaya in 1665 comes a detailed picture of 17th-century life in the Kingdom

Published on February 10, 2008

A Traveller in Siam in the Year 1655
By Gijsbert Heeck
Translated and introduced by Barend Jan Terwiel
Published by Silkworm Books, 2008
Available at Asia Books and Kinokuniya, Bt595
Reviewed by Michael Smithies

Special to The Nation
Gijsbert Heeck, sometimes spelt Heecq, is well-known to cognoscenti of 17th-century Siam for his detailed description of the Dutch "lodge" (warehouse, comptoir, go-down, office, call it what you will), the extent and rather luxurious nature of which were the envy of the other foreign communities in Ayutthaya, be they Portuguese, French, English or Japanese.

What is much less known is that his account of his stay in Siam extended far beyond the establishment of the Dutch East India Company on the east bank of the Chao Phya below Wat Phananchoeng.

Heeck, born in 1619 near Utrecht, a ship's surgeon, had twice travelled to the Indies before he returned to the Netherlands to settle down, but the death of two successive wives and one child caused him to change his plans and depart once more, in 1654, this time as chief medical surgeon for three years.

In Siam, 1655 was the last full year of the reign of King Prasat Thong, who came to the throne in 1629 after a messy power struggle and whose succession was in turn similarly disputed the year after Heeck's visit; Prasat Thong's tempestuous and volatile character is made clear in the works of that other VOC employee, Jeremias van Vliet.

Heeck points out that the court's relations with the Dutch were a little strained, but that did not stop him visiting Ayutthaya from September 9 to 12 and leaving a detailed and seemingly accurate account of the capital, noting the fast-flowing water in the straight canals that criss-crossed the city, and the empty elephant houses because the elephants were taking the air outside the city to escape decimation from an infectious disease.

Nor did it prevent the Siamese coming down on the side of the Dutch in a dispute with the Portuguese.

The book is divided into three parts: 19 pages of introduction, 48 pages of translated text, and 41 pages of the original Dutch. We are given for good measure several pages of colour illustrations, including two fold-out maps of the Chao Phya, one being the well-known Valentijn map of 1724-6, the other the much less known Siamese River manuscript map circa 1690 from the National Archives at The Hague.

Heeck in some ways is a bit of a gossip - thank goodness, for we learn a good deal about life in mid-17th-century Siam. One other aspect that comes out in this account is the constant desire of the Company to reduce costs (already seen in the sending of the first Siamese embassy to Holland earlier in the century) - to the point of pushing for a marriage to reduce office expenses and offload an employee to Batavia.

One section in the otherwise exemplary introduction is pretentiously if politically fashionably headed "Gender studies", when all it covers is the role of Siamese mistresses of the Dutch and their offspring.

But any quibbles are minor, and can be ironed out in a later edition. For now, we should be very thankful that a complete edition of Heeck's text has appeared in the original and in English translation, and this relatively slim volume should quickly find a place on the bookshelves of every person interested in 17th-century Siam.


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/02/10/book/book_30064837.php

[dick]

Thanks GWR for this interesting info. Not only trams and trains, but also the old dutch-siamese relations are on my list.