Administrative History:Changwat Phra Nakhon

[GWR]

First Featured Frontpage.

The Min of Ed's own history page:-
http://www.moe.go.th/main2/article/e-hist01.htm

http://www.moe.go.th/main2/pic/e-sch02.gif

[GWR]

A list of former Thai Province names as compiled by a frequent contributor to this forum; Ahoerstemeier:-
http://www.historymania.com/american_history/User:Ahoerstemeier/Former_Thai_provinces

[Ahoerstemeier]

The page is actually at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ahoerstemeier/Former_Thai_provinces), where it is also open for others to edit - the link you found is just one of the many more-or-less good mirrors of Wikipedia.

That list is way from being complete, it's more a scrapebook of mine trying to collect the data - that's why it is a subpage of my Userpage on Wikipedia, and not a real article. Most of the entries are from the book by Tej Bunnag, "The Provincial Administration of Siam 1892-1915", and it contains the towns which previously had Mueang status, but were reduced in status during the reforms of Prince Damrong.

[waerth]

Might be time for me to buy this book ;)

Waerth

[Ahoerstemeier]

Might be time for me to buy this book ;)
If you can find it - tell me, then I will buy it as well. The book is out of print for a long time already, I only got it from an university library for some weeks - and of course I scanned it completely so I can still read in it after I had to return it. If you just want to read it - didn't you plan to visit the library of the Siam Society for a long time already? :D

[waerth]

Yep it is one of those things passing it regularly. Still need to walk in.

Waerth

[airlana]

Todays Bangkok Post story on Tak reminded me of something I've never quite worked out.

Was Raheng simply the old former name of Tak?

If so when was it changed and why

References to Raheng are common in books on the teak industry of bygone years and also the Japanese occupation of Thailand during WW2

I also seem to recall reading somewhere that Raheng was actually situated further northwest of present day Tak and that it was flooded with the construction of Bhumipol Dam. Fact or fiction?

airlana
.

[GWR]

Certainly are a lot of wartime refs to Raheng Airfield. Found this on:-

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/TH/8/Tak.html

Tak, Thailand Page.
Other names: Baheng,Tark, Rahaeng, Ban Raheang, Rahaong, Muang Tak, Muang Raheng, Raheng, Changwat Tak, Ban Rahaeng

Quick scans of local maps haven't produced this name at all, yet.

Ebay produced a letter with Chiangmai & Raheng postmarks from 1905, which presumably shows the mail route to Bangkok prior to railways:-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5593173809

http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/5e/bf/7b_1_b.JPG

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/5e/bf/7f_1_b.JPG

Many articles claim that Tak was formerly Raheng. Such as this interesting snippet from 'The Chiang-Mai Newsletter & Advertiser':-

http://www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/september03/p12_10years.php

• Roy Hudson reminded us, “when next you arrive at Chiang Mai airport having left Bangkok only an hour previously, you might spare a thought for the Rev. Dan McGilvary and his family, who in 1867 reached Chiang Mai from Bangkok after a journey by river (the normal way of travel in those days) that had lasted 90 days. … The McGilvarys took 4 weeks to reach Raheng (now called Tak), where they rested for 10 days. Continuing up the Mae Ping River they completed their journey on April 3 after another month, during which the boat crew had to negotiate 32 rapids.”
Ed. This journey was made 136 years ago.

This article is a bit more informative and seems to place yer actual Raheng somewhere in the Amphur of Ban Tak, where the Wang & Ping meet. It's difficult to see how the Bhumiphon Dam would flood this area, however:-

http://www.thailand-travelers.info/tak_north_thailand.htm

Tak- Gateway to the North

Tak is the gateway to Thailand's most scenic region: the North. This quiet town on the banks of the Ping River is but a ghost of its former brawling self. Once called Raheng, it was a logger's town. Just north of Tak was the confluence of the Wang and Ping, two of the four main tributaries of the Chao Phya River. Logs freed from the wild rapids on the upper Ping and those from the Wang were rafted and floated down river to Nakhon Sawan. The rapids have been buried under the Bhumibol Dam and, with them, the town's hurly burly reputation.

During the 19th century, Takwas also a provisioning center for journeys west into Burma and north to Chiang Mai. Until the railway was completed in the 1920s, the only way north was by boat propelled by "polers" who set stout poles into the riverbed and then "walked" the boat upstream against the swift current. As the rapids were the most formidable obstacle on the river, it was in Tak that food stocks were replenished, polers hired, and boats readied for the pounding they would take through the narrow canyons.

[airlana]

Great work GWR and thanks.

At least the first part is solved, ie; Raheng former name for Tak

Now to find out why and when the name change.

The fact that nearly all WW2 material refers to Raheng would suggest the
name change took place post war.

First came across the name Raheng in reading "Jungle Prison" by Leigh Williams which was originally published in 1941 under the title "Green Prison"

Williams spent many years in Northern Thailand in the teak industry, and gives a good account of the river journey from Bangkok to Chiang Mai.

airlana

[GWR]

This scan of a map of downtown Tak, Amphur Muang (from PN Maps, Tak - Mae Sot Map) indicates that it has a Tambon Rahaeng on the banks of the Ping River. The confluence on the opposite bank is with the Huai Mae Tho:-

http://tinypic.com/eg7mtx.jpg

[Ahoerstemeier]

The fact that nearly all WW2 material refers to Raheng would suggest the
name change took place post war.

However, King Taksin (ruled 1767-1782) got his name from the province, where he was deputy governour - combined from his name Sin and the province name. Thus maybe the province was renamed Rahaeng sometime in Bangkok period, and named back to its original name later. It's also possible that the center of Tak was previously at a different site, and moved to Rahaeng later, thus overwriting the original name of the town.

Tambon Rahaeng (ระแหง) is the first Tambon in Amphoe Mueang Tak, thus the actual center of the district and province.

[airlana]

It's also possible that the center of Tak was previously at a different site, and moved to Rahaeng later, thus overwriting the original name of the town.

Tambon Rahaeng (ระแหง) is the first Tambon in Amphoe Mueang Tak, thus the actual center of the district and province.

I've also come across this:

"Wat Phra Boromthat and Ancient Tak City is located north of the township area, 25 kms. upstream the Mae Ping River which is currently in the area of Amphoe Ban Tak. This area used to be the site of old Tak town. There are yet several ruins of town and monasteries in the area especially on top of a hill nearby Wat Phrathat a pagoda of Phum Khao Binth design is situated. From the legend this pagoda was constructed by the order of King Ramkhamhaeng attesting to his victory in the single hand combat on the elephant's back against King Khun Sam Chon the ruler of Muang Sot (currently Amphoe Mae Sot"

Although I've used the spelling Raheng, many references use Rahaeng including GRW's map above

Perhaps it's no more than coincidence, but could RAHAENG be some sort of abbreviation of Ramkhamhaeng ?

airlana

[Ahoerstemeier]

Perhaps it's no more than coincidence, but could RAHAENG be some sort of abbreviation of Ramkhamhaeng ?
No, that's just a conincidence in the English transcription. Ramkhamhaeng in Thai is รามคำแหง, while Rahaeng is ระแหง. The haeng part is same (แหง), but for Rahaeng it's a short "a" (ะ), while Ramkhamhaeng has a long one (า). And as Thai is more a syllable language, the "m" cannot be separated.

The only question we still need to answer - when was Tak moved to its new location? Was it really after WWII, or earlier, but the old name of the town stick longer. Same as Surat Thani is still sometimes referred as Bandon, even though the town was renamed in 1915 already.

[airlana]

Hi "Ahoerstemeier"

Thanks for the explanation.
I should have replied earlier, but somehow overlooked it

airlana

[GWR]

1886 Map of Burmah, Siam & Anam
Blackie & Son, Glasgow, Edinburgh and London 1886. 1Mb Slow download, but worth it. Click on the image for the larger version:-
http://www.dcothai.com/download/thai-map.jpg

Yaheing or Rahayng? Lots of different spellings here!

[airlana]

1886 Map of Burmah, Siam & Anam
Blackie & Son, Glasgow, Edinburgh and London 1886. 1Mb Slow download, but worth it. Click on the image for the larger version:-
http://www.dcothai.com/download/thai-map.jpg

Yaheing or Rahayng? Lots of different spellings here!

Thanks for the interesting map. Will give me a few more old names to follow up.

It complements the ones I have of India and Burma from 1893

http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~poyntz/India/maps.html#area



airlana

[Wisarut]

Rahaeng (or Rahayng) for Thai spelling and YahYaheing for Burmese Spelling since they tend to mix up R with Y:D

[dick]

On a map from 1945 I see close to Prathum-Thani the name Bang Kadi. This means?
East from bangkok, north from Lat Kabang the name from a station Huatakhe, one station more east: Preng. Are this names now unused?

[ncr]

Hua Takhe and Preng are still existing to this day. Hua Takhe is the end point of many local commuter trains from Hualamphong, I think.

See for example this timetable (http://www.railway.co.th/timetable/N_Eg.html). Hua Takhe is the 15th station from the top, Preng the 18th.

No idea about Bang Kadi. By the way, there is no "r" in the name Pathum Thani. Unfortunately, a common mistake on many maps. (Along with other atrocities like Nakon P"r"athom.) :eek:

[Wisarut]

That's "Bang Kadi" is now "Bang Kradee" -> a commune in Muang District of pathum Thani ... There is now an industrialestate at Bang Kradee though :p

[dick]

Until 1917 the flag of Siam was decorated with an elephant, in 1917 Siam had a nes flag for only one year with another design; after 1917, if I am good informed, the new flag was introduced with the red, white and blue colours. What colours had the flag of 1917.

[Ahoerstemeier]

The 1917 map was red-white-red-white-red - same design as the current flag, only the center bar was red instead of blue.

According to the most popular story, that flag was introduced when the King saw the old flag hanging upside-down, and then decided to change to flag which cannot be hung wrong way. The change of color in 1917 was made to show allegiance with the entente of World War I, as both France as well as Britain had these three colors in their flags. According to other sources the blue was chosen because it was the color of Friday, the birthday of the King.

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Thailand

[The Enforcer!]

To my knowledge there have been five Siamese/Thai flags ... see http://flagspot.net/flags/th_his.html.

The Enforcer!

[Ahoerstemeier]

To my knowledge there have been five Siamese/Thai flags ... see http://flagspot.net/flags/th_his.html.
Yes, there were earlier flags, but the history of the flags before the white elephant on red ground is a bit contradictory. What is rather sure is the plain red flag used at first. Whether the flags with the chakra ring, or the chakra ring and the elephant, or another one not listed at FOTW with a white disc and a sun inside that disc, were really official maps is unknown.

I have a Thai book named "Thong Thai Lem 1", which many of the flags used in Thailand. Sadly I cannot read it yet as my Thai is still too bad, but it also shows five flags - first the plain red one, then two versions with a white elephant - first a plain one, later one with a golden pedestal and some golden decorations on the elephant. And then of course the red-striped and the current one. Sadly that book does not cover the provincial flags, and I never saw "Lem 2" of that book.

[GWR]

This is a site I chanced upon looking for some info on another historical issue. I didn't really realise how stuffed full of modern Thai history it is until another poster read it in more detail and commented favorably. I've included the index page here, as just about every link on the site contains something of historical interest: -

http://thailand.prd.go.th/about_prd/

http://thailand.prd.go.th/about_prd/img_about/06228103522app.jpg

The interesting unit that played a significant role from the beginning was the Knowledge Dissemination Division, with the same structure as during the time of the Publicity Department. The book on the structure and operation of the Publicity Bureau defined the function of the division as:

“The Knowledge Dissemination Division has as its main function the propagation of democratic rule among the people, so that they have faith in the Constitution, be truly patriotic, loyal to the religion and the monarch, keeping firm in good morality and ethics, on par with all civilized nations, while maintaining certain Thai customs and traditions. The Division also gives advice and instructions to the people concerning various professions mainly pursued in Siam, and propagate the condition of Siam to create confidence in the international community.”

[GWR]

Absorbing insight into ancient times

A reissue of "Samut Ratchaburi", first published nearly a century ago, will give a glimpse of how Ratchaburi and five other provinces of the Ratchaburi Circle (Monthon Ratchaburi) were at the time.

Monthon Ratchaburi included the provinces of Ratchaburi, Phetchaburi, Prachuab Khiri Khan, Kanchanaburi and Samut Songkhram.

The Ratchaburi Circle at the time had a population of about 500,000.

The book gives details on geography and ethnography, as well as legends and the way of life in the provinces during the reign of King Vajiravudh (King Rama VI).

Chanwangtho Phraya Khatha-Tharabodi, the then governor of Monthon Ratchaburi wrote in the first issue, published in 1926, that the book was prepared for the Siamese Kingdom Exhibition and to celebrate the 15th anniversary of King Vajiravudh's coronation.

The Siamese Kingdom Exhibition was planned for January 23, 1926 at Lumpini Park but was cancelled because the monarch passed away a few months before.

A manuscript on Samut Ratchaburi, however, had been almost completed for print. Phraya Khatha-Tharabodi decided to continue the printing and launched the book to commemorate the late King Vajiravudh's birthday on January 1, 1926.

Unfortunately, the book was rarely seen by the public.

A copy kept in the Prince Damrong Rajanubhab Library had a handwritten message on the front page that read "Phraya Katha-Tharabodi brought [this book] to give [to ...] at Hua Hin Hotel on 27 January 1925."

"I had heard about Samut Ratchaburi for over 30 years but had never found it in the libraries of Chulalongkorn University or other libraries," said associate professor Chalong Soontravanich, head of the Department of History at Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Arts.

The historian recently obtained a copy of the first print of Samut Ratchaburi from a rare book collector, Thongchai Likitpornswan, who bought the copy 15 years ago at a rare books shop at Chatuchak Market.

Chalong, president of the Thai Club of Japan's Selection Committee on the Reprinting of Rare Books project, was quick to add the book to the list.

"I was interested in the local history in this book. It is important for historical studies of Thailand. In the past, our history relied on royal chronicles rather than local sources. The book also reflects the way of thinking of Thai rulers," he said.

"Samut Ratchaburi's" contents include: the legends of towns and administrations; occupations and important products of the Ratchaburi Circle; places to go and see for holidays; wars; miscellaneous stories told about the royal palaces the former kings of Siam built and visited in the provinces; a language of the "Krieng", an ethnic group living in the mountains along the Siam-Burma border; and wildlife and hunting.

The Krieng were described as a "special ethnic group" in the book's chapter on "Nation and Populations". About 100 members of the Krieng came from Baan Mekawa in Moulmein, Burma to settle in Huay Chonkalia in Kanchanaburi province. A Krieng leader was later appointed chief of Sangkhla Buri town.

"It can be said that their origin was ethnic-Thai (Laos owned the former land). But there were foreigners such as Khom [Khmer] and Khaek [people from South Asia] who came in and mixed [were married] with the locals," the Krieng chapter reads.

Monthon Ratchaburi was also home to Mon from Tavoy and Lao-Song and Lao-Vieng captives from Srisatanakonahut, now Luang Prabang.

Images of these people and their way of life were also published in the book, as well as photos of archaeological sites and popular tourist attractions at the time.

"Samut Ratchaburi isn't just a record of the period, it is also a body of knowledge for Thai historical studies, especially economic history, the history of tourism, and ethnography," said Chalong, who is editor of the "Samut Ratchaburi" reprint to be published by the Thai Club of Japan.

Samut Ratchaburi is the sixth rare book published in the Reprint of Rare Books Project. It contains 325 pages and 52 photos.

The reissue of "Samut Ratchaburi" is available from Original Press. Call 02 952 9203 for details.

Subhatra Bhumiprabhas


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/19/headlines/headlines_30037227.php

[Wisarut]

For the case of "Krieng", it is a reference ot Karen tribes alogn Siam - Burma Border ...

Well, I just purchased that Book (Samut Rajburi) though ....

[Ahoerstemeier]

Sadly that book is in Thai, isn't it? I love to read historic accounts on Thailand, but till I would be able to read such a text in Thai it will still take many years :-(

It'd be great if you'd post a personal review here when you have read it, so I can make up my mind if I should order it just to have it in my library as a constant reminder that I should work on my Thai :D I guess the price is not that high...

[FarangBha]

A Thai friend of mine is working on a book about the Khet Phranakong area (around sanam luang, china town fringes, I'm told).

Would greatly appreciate any references, pics, maps, histories, landmarks, characters and general stories.

Cheers.

[The Enforcer!]

Khet Phranakong area (around sanam luang, china town fringes, I'm told).

Yes, more usually spelt 'Khet Phra Nakhon'. Founded from the 12 original Amphoe of Bangkok I believe.

The Enforcer!

[Ahoerstemeier]

Yes, more usually spelt 'Khet Phra Nakhon'. Founded from the 12 original Amphoe of Bangkok I believe.

The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phra_Nakhon) states that Amphoe Phra Nakhon was created on 12 March 1928 out of 6 Amphoe which previously covered the area. It became a Khet in 1972, when Thonburi and Phra Nakhon province were merged to form Bangkok municipality.

That article should give a good starting point, as it mentions lots of places within that area, however as it's the historical center even travel guide books will have some valuable information about it.

[The Enforcer!]

out of 6 Amphoe
Opps, I got it the wrong way round ... it was formed from 6 Amphoes, but has 12 Kwaengs!

The Enforcer!

[FarangBha]

Thanks chaps, will keep ya's posted with what he comes up with.

[hdamm]

If your friend can read Thai, he might look for this book:
ศันสนีย์ วีระศิลป์ชัย "ชื่อบ้านนามเมืองในกรุงเทพฯ". มติชน กรุงเทพฯ (พิมพ์ครั้งที่ ๖ ๒๕๔๖)
Its about old names of streets, bridges, places etc. in Bangkok.
hd

[Ahoerstemeier]

I found a list of provinces and districts within the Monthon Krung Thep (see my blog (http://tambon.blogspot.com/2008/01/todo-amphoe-in-monthon-krung-thep.html)), which to my surprise lists provinces named Phra Nakhon Nuea, Klang and Tai (north, middle and south), and Thon Buri Nuea and Tai, whereas I before thought that there were only two provinces Phra Nakhon and Thon Buri until they were merged to become Bangkok in 1971. Can anyone help me to find the dates when these 5 provinces became 2, and when these 5 came into existence?

[Wisarut]

I found a list of provinces and districts within the Monthon Krung Thep (see my blog (http://tambon.blogspot.com/2008/01/todo-amphoe-in-monthon-krung-thep.html)), which to my surprise lists provinces named Phra Nakhon Nuea, Klang and Tai (north, middle and south), and Thon Buri Nuea and Tai, whereas I before thought that there were only two provinces Phra Nakhon and Thon Buri until they were merged to become Bangkok in 1971. Can anyone help me to find the dates when these 5 provinces became 2, and when these 5 came into existence?

In such a case, they are NOT the new provinces at all, it is just the way they clasified the types of districts (Amphoe) within BKK and Thonburi).

However, the usual way fo district classification for BKK and Thonburi with Amphoe chan Nai (Inner Districts) and Amphoe Chan Nok (Outer Districts).

[Ahoerstemeier]

That fits with what I noticed browsing through the Royal Gazette database yesterday. There are very few announcement which actually use one of these five names (found one in 1916, 1927 and 1929) - and all other announcements in that time period use just the plain names Thon Buri and Phra Nakhon.

If I am not totally wrong, then this (http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2459/A/116.PDF) is the announcement about the creation of Thon Buri Nuea and Tai, but my Thai is way to limited to get the explanation of what these entities actually are.

[Wisarut]

Khun Ahoerstemeier

After I read the Royal Garzette, I found that you have TOTALLY misunderstood the contents of the annoucenment from Ministry of Local Administration. Therefore, I've made English translaltion of both Royal Annoucement and the annoucenment from Ministry of Local Administration whcih can be described as follows:


Royal Garzette - Vol. 33, 30 July BE 2459 (1916) Page 116
Royal Announcement to Change the name of Districts

After the royal annoucement to dissolve 7 Inner districts
and create 25 inner districts for Bangkok Metropolitan on
15 October BE 2458 (1915), His Majesty has found that
the names of some districts were not in line with the historical
communes where the distric offices were situated.

Therefore, His majestry has made a royal annoucement
to change the names of inner districts as follows:

Old: New
1. Amarin District 1. Bangkok Noy District
2. Hongsaram District 2. Bangkok Yai District
3. Ratchakrue District 3. Bang Yee Ruea District
4. Bubpharam District 4. Klong Sarn District

Announced on 11 July BE 2458 (1915), the 2070th Day of Present Reign

// ------------------------------------------------------

Royal Garzette - Vol. 33, 30 July BE 2459 (1916) Page 117

Announcement from Ministry of Local Administration

Since Thonburi (the Western side of Bangkok metropolitan)
has 11 districts and it becomes too large to be handled by a single Metropolitan Police of Thonburi, Ministry of Local Administration has
decided to partition the jurisdiction for Metropolitan Police of Thonburi
into 2 Parts, the Northern Thonburi and the Southern Thonburi and
the jurisdiction area for Northern Thonburi Police district
and Northern Thonburi Police district can be described as follows:

[Ahoerstemeier]

Thanks a lot Khun Wisarut. I posted a slightly wrong URL, the interesting part began on page 117 (http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2459/A/117.PDF), but on page 118 it's just the list of the Amphoe. I don't speak much Thai yet, so I did not notice that the announcement was about police districts, and not about real provinces. It was just the first one of those few Gazette announcements which actually mention the Changwat Nuea/Tai. Maybe the one who wrote that posting where I found these changwat names misunderstood like that as well?

Anyway, thanks again for clarification.