Fuel Issues:LPG for diesel engines?

[blue]

Anyone know what day "Car Free Day" will be held on this year? It is usually held on September 20-21-22 around the world. Who is organizing it here?

[Gigabyte]

Hi!

Just wondering...

Am I wrong by thinking that closing down department stores early will badly affect traffic at the worst time of the day?

Am I the only one to think that closing down department stores early is a real bad pain that won't have any positive effects?

Am I the only frustrated driver who doesn't want the government to decide for me when to buy gas, because I already decided that it's OK to pay more for gas if I wish to use my car when I want?

Consumers aren't even given their basic right about freedom to chose; the government wants to restrict access to goods and control everybody. If someone wants to consume more and spend more (thus putting more money in the Thai economy), then what's wrong with that?

[The Enforcer!]

As a seasoned retailer, I can assure you that this action by Herr Taksinwill add 60,000 to 70,000 to the unemployed list, hit the profitability and hence sustainability of decent retails chains lke Central and The Mall but (of course, Loy Percent here) not affect non-gas station Convenience Stores as the majority are owned by a friend of said Herr Taksin!

I am hope that the honest side of Thai politics (Pee Prem and Pee Anand) decide to cease their silence and stop this guy.

Sorry if this upsets any Thai readers but I love this country too much so see it destroyed by such deplorable corruption.

The Enforcer!

[Nekochan]

No, no no what he is doing now does not make any difference!

Khun Enforcer, I think Thai may buy your comment as long as Thais finally realize whom they voted for!!

Another 4 more years and yes!, we are on the right track. It sounds familiar, isn't it?

To reduce oil consumption, Thailand needs long term strategy, not rush hour decision making. That is what Thailand is notorious for (lack of it). I do not think that closing malls or gas stations will reduce energy consumption that much.

Let alone ........ job losses for the working class people

How much can we save? They said 150 MB a year (If I am right).

And they plan to buy a fleet of 22 Boeing (Airbus?) for 150,000 Million Baht!! That's great!! A practical way to save your money.

[Gigabyte]

Thanks for the comments and input!

Funny, but I thought that I was on the right track to help save this country from an energy crisis...

My office work schedule (flexible, thanks to my boss) is designed to avoid morning and evening traffic jams. I really do prefer to go to the malls and super-stores late at night when there's no traffic on the roads so I save time + energy driving there and also avoid driving all over the parking lot in search of a decent spot...

So now I will have to finish work at the same time as thousands of other Bangkokian workers, join the traffic jams, and waste much more time and gas every day... Great!

[The Enforcer!]

You have hit the nail on the head Khun Gigabyte !

If you force more people to travel in less hours you increase congestion and thus increase fuel usage/costs (and polution!).

What ought to be done is a long term plan to shift school hours, bank hours and shopping hours such that traffic is eased, and remove from operation older fuel guzzling vehicles.

Also (and I am not a socialist!) I would BAN all kiddies being taken to school by car in urban areas - each morning I see (as an example) two to three hundred cars enter and exit Convent twice a day to deliver one child each to school!! Carefully co-ordinated this could mean 15 or so minibuses could save us 600 car journeys a day at one school alone!

Add to this an integrated fast bus/coach network - with dedicated roads or bus-lanes.

It could be done!!

But it will not be as long as long as Ministers have luxury driven cars!

The Enforcer!

[Nekochan]

A columnist from Matichon wrote about vehicle sale in Thailand last year. The total vehicles sold were more than 500,000! and that is 1% of vehicle manufactured globally. And he added Thailand spent 20-30% of GDP in transportation.

To cut fuel consumption, we cannot rely on closing malls or shopping centres. It is so short sighted. Alternative energy may be the best bet for now, just like they have wind farm or solar plant in Farangs' countries.

Long term planning, I can assure you.

To relief congestion, you need to travel less (by cars in particular). This is true when patrol is very expensive. If you check data from ETA ...... I can comfirm this trend. Shorter trips, less trips to save fuel. The situation forces people to rethink how to spend the money.

School bus works in some area only. There are a lot of places where people prefer to drive. If your kids study at Wat (something) school, they tend to take buses. If they are some schools with Farangs' name, you may see lots of German cars!!

Attitude! only attitude!

I can only see the (bumpy) road ahead. (Hey!, I am not working for that Seattle based company!)

[Gigabyte]

But it will not be as long as long as Ministers have luxury driven cars!
Not to mention the absolute priority they get on the roads when their luxury driven cars are in a motorcade! Of course they can't see the thousands of cars and extra traffic jams that they are causing... Do they care? Yes! But they punish everybody for their own abuse...

[White Nancy]

Can someone please tell me the price of petrol and diesel in Thailand?

Thanks,

White Nancy.

[White Nancy]

It's OK, I've found out. It's depressingly cheap for someone used to UK prices!

Thanks

[ncr]

Only saw these (http://tinypic.com/4j02ug) on Phetburi Rd so far - or did anyone happen to notice them elsewhere? (Well, that was actually back in February.) A government campaign, probably by the Ministry of Energy. It's a play on words, as the word for oil and petrol is the same in Thai (nam man).

"Nowadays Thai people are already able to produce oil/petrol by themselves!" Then the label on the bottle says nam man muay, "Thai boxing oil", or massage oil. And below, "If you could use this kind of oil to run your car, the nation wouldn't have to spend up to 300 billion Baht for oil imports every year." (Written as "300,000 million" in Thai.) And in yellow: "Thais help Thais to reduce energy consumption."

This green sign (http://tinypic.com/4j032t) is something I only spotted on Phetburi as well..... a royal advice/reminder. Not that easy to translate, but essentially: "Plants belong into the city / [also] have their place in the city. In the words of HM the Queen."

[admin]

these were all along Sukhumvit Road as well...

[The Other Mac]

Massage oil is usually made from coconut oil. As it happens, another use for coconut oil could be to make biodiesel. A rai or two of coconut plantation can provide enough diesel for a local family car, or a few more to power a trawler.

E.g. http://www.tve.org/ho/doc.cfm?aid=1431&lang=English

This Aussie company sell family-sized machinery to efficiently extract oil from coconuts:
http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au/

So Thailand could power itself...

[ooddy]

I'm wondering how much is the gas price in BKK now. In LA, it's about $3.00 per gallon.

I'm assuming in BKK, it's about the same, or almost. But, how can people in BKK afford it? I bet they don't make a lot of money like the US counterpart. But yet they all drive a big cars. And there are a lot of cars in the street of Bangkok. I'm not quite sure how they can afford it.

I was in BKK about 3 or 4 months ago. There are more cars that I can imagine. It's not real...

[GWR]

This article in yesterday's Bangkok Post Motoring Section made a refreshing change from the normal 'alien' run of Lamborghini reviews and other boring 'Boy Wonder' stuff lifted from UK motoring mags. It appears that Gasohol currently only makes sense if you want to support home industry :-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/091205_Motoring/09Dec2005_motor04.php

OFF THE BEATEN TRACK
Gasohol's not a simple cocktail to concoct

Jessada Tandhasettee
Ford Focus's engine is the only one around its makers claim is E20 capable.

Apparently, gasohol has achieved popularity among consumers, much to the delight of its local distributor, based on the assumption that it is 1.50 baht and 0.70 satang cheaper than octane 95 and octane 91 respectively.

But all this is being done without educating the general public and motorists on how much fuel consumption will decrease or increase as a result, and at what rate.

First, a basic understanding of ethyl alcohol is needed. Ethyl alcohol contains about half the amount of energy when compared to gasoline (petrol as it is called in the UK), which in official terms is its heating value.

Engines that use ethyl alcohol and can still deliver the same performance as a gasoline engine will have to use a fuel pipe that has a section area twice as large and fuel injectors that are twice as fast in order to maintain similar performance figures.

And the obvious thing is that fuel consumption will be twice that amount. If you want to compare it head-on, the price of ethyl alcohol per litre must be half that of gasoline.

Therefore, mixing 10% ethyl alcohol with 90% gasoline to make gasohol will result in an energy value of only 95%. When compared to the conventional gasoline engine, fuel consumption will increase by roughly 5% depending on size, condition and type of engine.

If you want to make up for any increase in fuel consumption, the price must be reduced. For example, gasoline 95, now at 25 baht per litre, must be 1.25 baht cheaper.

In reality motorists aren't saving on fuel costs based on distance travelled. But they are helping the economy and the agricultural sector.

I don't need to show you the calculations. Say, if it's gasoline 91 which is 0.70 satang cheaper, the consumer will have to pay more for fuel that will cover the same distance for sure.

In times like this, who will want to pay more for the country?

Gasohol isn't even the standard official name, but is the bringing together of benzine (called gasoline in the US) and alcohol. Hence, gasohol.

It doesn't even tell us whether gasohol uses ethyl or methyl alcohol and doesn't indicate the proportion of mixtures.

The US penned the gasohol moniker because it pioneered the 10% ethyl alcohol and 90% gasoline mixture. The 10% is only an approximate figure; the optimal rate might well be 7% or 8%.

I believe that 10% is too much. Readers please take note: politicians responsible for our country's energy issues were naive when they announced that they will eventually increase the alcohol content in gasohol to 30%.

This is ridiculous and will cause grave damage to the engine. Various components will suffer from wear and tear resulting therefrom.

And, most importantly, how will the engine management system be able to compute the fuel mixture ratio and maintain the same performance at the same time?

[The Other Mac]

"I don't need to show you the calculations."

How kind of you to do the thinking for us, K. Jessada. What happened to "educating the general public"? I wonder if perhaps your expertise derives from the U.S. manufacturers of MTBE gasoline additive, who made serious diplomatic threats in Thailand when they realised how much they would lose because Thailand didn't need them anymore...

Your article is riddled with factual errors. Let's just tackle the most foolish.

The current gasohol mix does not replace gasoline with partial alcohol. It replaces the additive MTBE with alcohol.

MTBE is less energy efficient than straight gasoline, but it burns faster, improving performance. Alcohol... does the same job, but costs less. Incidentally, although the US likes to claim to promote gasohol, in the past it has systematically blocked its introduction almost worldwide, through heavily biased "research" funded by petroleum majors, and through diplomatic and trade pressure.

One country that has succeeded despite this is Brasil, which has been producing its own gasohol for over 20 years. The majority of cars in Brasil now burn ethanol only, with the rest accepting dual fuel.

Virtually all cars manufactured worldwide in the last 6 years can burn at least 15% alcohol without adjustment. As a major auto manufacturer, Thailand is in an ideal position to produce vehicles suitable for phasing in its own national plans. As an agricultural country without relatively little dependence on artificial fertiliser, it is in an ideal position to produce its own fuel.

[GWR]

Thanks for that grounding, Mac!

It occurs to me that Khun Jessada is probably working in a university that derives a great deal of its funding from Japan, as that country has such an important stake in Thailand's auto industry.

I'm genuinely interested in this subject, because there is no open debate about it here. And of course it is a fact that the Thai government has a tendency (in decision-making) to confuse their 'incentives' with the long-term needs of the general populace. I certainly wouldn't take PTT's word on gasohol as granted.

I would like to support an initiative that could bring some benefit to farmers. It seems somewhat ironic that farmers from the NE so regularly end up working in the NE as servants to the oil-rich. Trouble is, as always, Thailand's rich will almost certainly muscle in on land capable of producing energy crops. One notes that Brazil is a country where poor peasants are goaded around by hacienda owners (& their hired guns).

I would question the following:-

As an agricultural country without relatively little dependence on artificial fertiliser, it is in an ideal position to produce its own fuel.

Some people would say that Thai farmers are actually heavily dependent on artificial fertilisers; and that there isn't much priority given to good soil management. To me, this could be a major problem with energy crops. Landowners will almost certainly maximise their profits through growing the same crop year after year until the land is exhausted. This has certainly happened in some areas of Brazil.

[The Other Mac]

Some people would say that Thai farmers are actually heavily dependent on artificial fertilisers; and that there isn't much priority given to good soil management. To me, this could be a major problem with energy crops. Landowners will almost certainly maximise their profits through growing the same crop year after year until the land is exhausted. This has certainly happened in some areas of Brazil.
You're right, but the key word is relatively :) ...compared to some western countries that treat soil as an empty sponge, and each year apply all the nutrients that will be required by that year's crop.

In Thailand, rice harvest per rai is actually one of the lowest in the world. (Even China manages around 2.5 times higher - and yet China still imports rice from Thailand.) It's fair to say that mismanangement is partly responsible for this, but the same mismanagement means that artificial fertiliser is diluted, under-applied, and mixed with kee kwai. I've been told that in this past year, many Isaan farmers couldn't afford the increase in fertilliser price (due to rise in oil/gas price), and have gone back to pure kee kwai. While they will feel poorer this year, I see this as a good thing in terms of their own economic stability. At least they still have the option of growing without fertiliser. In most of the world, farmers would go bankrupt at these output levels.

Going back to energy crops, Thailand's sugar has a naturally higher net energy output per rai than U.S. studies on corn; plus has the benefit that there's already an industry set up and plenty of land under sugar cane; plus it cushions against the danger of volatile market prices for sugar.

In the long run though, there are better options for tropical countries. The Jatropha plant can produce 3 times more energy than sugar; is nitrogen-fixing ("makes soil more fertile"); and is actually used in India to reclaim semi-desert land as it tolerates drought and salt. It would be ideal for much of Isaan. (However a Thai study of one species suggests there would be a health risk requiring protective gear while in the field - something to watch out for.) A London listed company, D1 Oils, is trying to corner the world market in Jatropha ahead of EU bio-energy regulations in the next few years, so it's clear there will be a big market for it. Last year they claimed to be in discussions with the Thai govt. over the reduction of subsidies - since those subsidies have now gone, presumably that plan is quietly going ahead.

[GWR]

Are you involved in this project or an agriculturalist, OM?

It has certainly occurred to me that it would be comparatively easy to adapt sugar refineries to this purpose;and indeed run dual function plants that adapt their product to market circumstances. As an ex-agriculturalist/lumberjack, I find the whole idea of biomass rather fascinating. I can envisage local small-scale power plants that are able to deal with more than one kind of crop residue,sawdust or timber sneddings. I can imagine some of the larger para-rubber furniture plants in this area burning their worst offcuts; although I imagine good flue-gas scrubbers would be necessary, given the resinous nature of rubberwood.

;) On a somewhat comic sidetrack, I'll draw your attention to how one Sino-Thai entrepreneur kept vehicles running in occupied WW2 Southern Thailand & Malaysia. (You will have to scroll down thru' the linked post below to find the quote):-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4709&postcount=7

World War II saw major fuel shortages for autos in the entire South-East Asian region. In 1943, after six months of experimentation, Khun Niphat opened a small refinery where locally-produced latex was converted into an auto fuel. This was produced in sufficient quantities to be exported down most of the length of the East-Coast Peninsular Malay States. [I suspect latex 'sweepings' were actually used; as the Japanese undoubtedly coverted South East Asia's Rubber for their war machine & economic development.]

And a Khun Wisaruth reply:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4714&postcount=9

Well, there was INDEED a refinery that turned para rubber latex into automobile fuel ... it was used for the automobiles of the nationalized mine companies in Songkhla, Pattani, Yala, Narathiwat, Kelantan & Trungganu.

However, the fuel from pararubber latex has very bad smell though.
You will get a whitened nose if you inhale that para rubber latex
too much or for too long.

And a further post by me:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4806&postcount=19

Long-term Hat-Yai residents still refer to Khun Niphat as Tao-Gae Gi; a combination of the Chinese word for ‘merchant’ and his original Chinese name, Jia Gi Si. It seems that his trade in the somewhat smelly latex-derived car-fuel lasted until the 1960s, as a person of my own age can remember seeing it on a stand in a local trade exhibition. The same person told me that Nipat had learned how to make the fuel from experiments by the Japanese occupation force.

[The Other Mac]

I'm neither involved, nor have any professional knowledge or experience. Pure armchair (internet) expert :)

I started looking at this sort of stuff about 18 months ago, when I first heard the concept of peak oil explained properly (and a few months before oil prices went through the roof). I worried about Thailand's dependence, but came to the conclusion that it would be able to move to self-sufficiency without too much difficulty, if it acted quickly.

It certainly acted quickly. Other countries are barely swinging around to setting targets many years in the future that Thailand has achieved in a single year.

It's not very often that Thailand can be described as moving quickly. In the case of biofuels, research into the possibilty of producing gasohol and biodiesel has "coincidentally" been ongoing since the 80s, mainly due to the efforts of one person. He also, er, mentioned the subject in his last birthday speech...

[mdechgan]

Actually I like gasohol.
I have been saving up to aroung 10% every month on fuel bills for six months since I have been switching to gasohol.

I used to average Bt6,600-Bt7,000 per month using 95 octane. Now I only average slight less than Bt5,800-Bt6,000

No change is driving style, no major engine modifications. Don't know why.

Physically gasohol has about 5% less btu per litre than regular 95 octane fuel. So if the price of gasohol is less than 95% of regular 95 octane fuel, gasohol does have an advantage.

95 octane fuel = 100% fuel
gasohol = 90% fuel
10% alcohol, methonal or equivalent

95 octane = 100% fuel x 100% btu energy = 100% btu energy
gasohol = 90% fuel x 100% btu energy = 90% btu energy
10% gasohol x 50% btu energy = 5% btu energy
90% + 5% btu energy = 95% total btu energy

Simply gasohol is 95% of 95 octane fuel. If the savings is not equivalent of 5% compared to 95 octane fuel then it is not worth the cost.
But if compared to 91 octane fuel, I don't think gasohol is worth the savings.
Better to just use 91 octane fuel. 91 or 95 depends on your car.

Gasohol has much better anti knocking properties and burns cleaner, but less power or potential energy.

So one does save money using gasohol, but one also loses power by 5%.
I can't really notice 5% reduction in horsepower, especially while my car is sitting in BKK traffic, but in the end I do save money.

[GWR]

Here's an indication of what's happening in the life of Thailand's Condom & Family-Planning King, Meechai Viravaidya. He's also known for running restaurants, village mom & pop stores and resorts under the name 'Cabbages & Condoms': -

POLYMER ENERGY
Firms bid to make fuel from plastic

Crude oil imports 'could be cut by 12%'

Single Point Energy and Environment has successfully courted PTT and Bangchak Petroleum to join its quest to churn out crude oil from plastic waste.

The three companies yesterday signed a memorandum of understanding to study polymer energy technology jointly and explore possible marketing means to sell the crude oil.

Single Point chairman Meechai Viravaidya said if polymer energy technology, which is imported from Poland, were successfully implemented in Thailand, it could help eliminate the Kingdom's plastic waste, which is estimated to be about 7.5 million tonnes at the moment.

"We estimate that plastic waste could churn out sufficient crude oil to reduce imports 12 per cent and help the country save more than Bt87 billion a year," he said.

Single Point managing director Santivipha Panichkul said the machinery involved was imported from Poland for Bt65 million. It has the capacity to produce 4,500 litres of crude oil from 6 tonnes of plastic waste a day.

The company expects to break even within four years.

She said many garbage-collecting groups had shown interest in joining the programme, including Group 15 Co - a subsidiary of Group 79 Co, which has the concession to handle waste in Bangkok. The Pattaya municipality has also shown interest.

"Right now, the volume of waste has been on the rise and it has become a big problem everywhere. Thus, to turn plastic waste - which would take more than 500 years to degrade - into crude oil would benefit all parties," she said.

Group 79 now handles 10,000 tonnes of waste a day, while about 30 million tonnes of waste have already been buried, said Group 15 managing director Varavit Sasomsap.

PTT senior executive vice president Chaiwat Choorit said his company's research centre would lend assistance with the research.

"It will take a while before we can tell how the crude oil will be purchased and at what price," he said, adding it remained unclear whether the output could be used as fuel or needed to be refined.

He said the project was attractive, because half of the crude oil could be turned into diesel, 20 per cent into petrol and 30 per cent into bunker oil.

Energy Reporters
The Nation


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/07/business/business_30018247.php

[Scuba22]

I wasn't sure where to put this, so if it's more appropriate in another section, please feel free to move it - Thanks, Scuba

From The Economist, 3 May 2007:

"In Bangkok, though, a group of city officials, with notably little support from a succession of ephemeral governments, has reduced the air-pollution levels by 20-50%, depending on the measure, despite an increase in vehicles of 40% in the past ten years alone. They have done so by imposing fiercer pollution controls on cars, raising taxes on two-stroke motorbikes and making all taxis run on (subsidised) liquefied natural gas."

I find this very hard to believe. Is this real? How is this measured? What are these "fiercier controls on cars"? I don't recall anyone fiercely controlling my wife's car.

Any thoughts?

Scuba

[mdechgan]

For every 10 taxis that run on LPG and 20 2 stroke motocycles removed there is atleast 1 city bus that spits out black soot.

First of all taxis choose to run LPG not because it is environmentally friendly but because they are cheaper to run per kilometer.

Second 2 stroke motorcycles are almost obselete being replaced by 4 stokers.

[GWR]

One is left wondering how the pollution from such a conversion process measures up against other methods of energy production. One suspects that there is some problem here that stops the proponents of such a project using it as a selling point. Certainly anything that tries to rid the country of plastic litter is welcome, but the pollution issue should be open to public scrutiny:

Bt65m project to turn waste into oil

The Energy Ministry yesterday unveiled a pilot project to turn plastic waste into crude oil, expecting the Bt65-million investment to offer an alternative way of reducing pollution.

After launching the "polymer energy" project in Samut Prakan, Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand said that of the total investment, Bt35 million would come from Samut Prakan provincial authorities, Bt15 million from the Energy Conservation Fund and Bt15 million from Single Point Energy Environment, which imports the technology needed for the scheme.

"We expect the output will come on to the market by the end of this year," Piyasvasti said, adding that the ministry is looking to promote similar projects in Prachuap Khiri Khan and Rayong provinces.

Samut Prakan Governor Anuwat Methwibunwut said Bangchak Petroleum had been contracted to buy the crude oil.

"From our estimate, we can produce 28 barrels a day at a cost of Bt11 a litre. Then we can sell the oil to Bangchak at Bt15 a litre," he said.

Samut Prakan was picked for the pilot due to the availability of plastic waste. Waste will be smelted and the molecules realigned to be close to those of crude oil. The technology is widely used in Europe.

Thailand handles 16 million tonnes of waste each year, of which 7.2 million tonnes are plastic. If all the plastic waste could be turned into crude oil, imports of crude could be reduced by 5-7 per cent.


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/14/business/business_30036798.php

[GWR]

Thailand's Energy And Money From Waste Water

By D. Arul Rajoo

KRABI, June 27 (Bernama) -- As demand for renewable energy continues to rise, a palm oil company in the southern Thai province of Krabi has been turning pollution into profit.

Asian Palm Oil Co Ltd, one of the biggest palm-oil producers in the province known more for its tourism products, is producing biogas from waste-water that can be used to produce electricity for own consumption and sold for commercial purposes.

Besides reducing pollution, the company is also saving on energy cost and making money by selling its extra energy.

Its managing director Nipon Udompholkul noted that the old method of open ponds to store and treat waste water from the palm oil mills gave rise to unpleasant odour or in another words air pollution.

"After four years, it has been proven that it's a reliable method and now adopted by at least three other mills," he told Bangkok-based media during a visit to the factory located 45km from Krabi town.

BIOGAS FROM WATER PROJECT

Nipon said the "Biogas from Waste-water in Palm Oil Mill" project carried out with the assistance of Thammasat University and sponsored by the National Energy Policy Office, is the first such project in Thailand.

It has managed to cut the pollution caused by the mills by as much as 80 percent.

Under the system, the waste-water treatment using Complete Stirred Tank Reactor (CSTR) is capable of reducing up to 90 percent of BOD and produces biogas which can fuel the boiler or the biogas engine to generate electricity.

Project consultant Prawat Leetanakul said the biogas not only produce energy after burning but takes away the unpleasant odour that the neighbourhood once had to bear.

Now, there are 40 such mills in the Kingdom, almost half of them in Krabi.

Asian Palm Oil had spent Bt40 million installing the system and hopes to recoup its investment within five years.

PROFIT FROM ELECTRICITY

For the whole of 2006, the company generated 2.197 million kWh and sold 1.739 million kWh to the state-owned Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (Egat). This generated an income of Bt4.9 million.

"Most of the power that we generate is used for our mill and the extra sold to Egat. The remaining water is used for watering the trees," said Prawat.

Prawat sees bright future for such venture in the Kingdom, saying that with more than three million hectares of oil palm land in the country that produces 5.6 ton of Fresh Fruit Bunch (FFb) and 3.36 million cubic metres of waste-water, there is a big potential for the undertaking.

Based on his rough estimate, the nation can produce 67.2 million cubic metres of biogas that can generate 134.4 million kWh of power.

Thailand's venture into renewable energy from palm oil can be credited to King Bhumipol Adulyadej who initiated the production of bio-diesel in 1985 and his majesty's innovation won the Gold Medal at Brussels Eurela 2001 in Belgium.

THERE ARE SETBACKS

But bio-diesel production from palm oil has its own limitations due to limited supply as only 800,000 metric tonnes of raw palm oil are produced a year, forcing the government to promote the expansion of oil palm plantation to more than four million hectares by 2023.

Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand said Thailand, which last year spent Bt1.4 trillion on energy, with Bt500 billion to Bt600 billion spent on fuel oil, is pushing for more renewable energy from the abundant agricultural bi-products.

He said Thailand plans to replace 20 percent of vehicle fuel consumption with renewable energy such as bio-diesel and ethanol in the next five years.

Last year, 64.83 percent of electricity was generated using natural gas and only 5.37 percent from renewable energy, such as paddy husk and palm oil.

A survey carried out by the ministry shows 74 million litres of used vegetable oil is available each year in Thailand, out of which only 25 million litres are being used to produce bio-diesel.

If all the cooking oil is turned into bio-diesel, the country could save Bt1.6 billion in diesel imports.

The Thai Government is promoting the use of ethanol as gasoline supplement (Premium 95) up to 1 million liter/day.

Piyasvasti said cassava and sugarcane are being considered the most important crop for economical ethanol production while oil palm is important for bio-diesel production.

"And this agricultural bi-products are fetching good prices in the market providing extra income for farmers," he said.

Now, officials are looking at such technology for other products like tapioca starch, frozen seafood, concentrated latex and municipal waste-water, as well as turning plastic waste into crude oil.

-- BERNAMA

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=269835

Related post that describes the production of fuel from latex in the past:

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=7498&postcount=5

[GWR]

Clean or Not - Thailand Sees Dollars in Palm Oil
By Marwaan Macan-Markar

KRABI, Jul 4 (IPS) - The new governor of this southern province has set his sights on another prize to add to its list of unique features. ‘’We are aiming to be the palm oil capital of Thailand,’’ says Siwa Sirisoawaluk who has been Krabi’s chief administrator for nine months.

He shares his ambition, standing within easy view of a grove of tall palm trees that produce the kind of bio-fuel that is increasingly in demand globally. These trees, locals say, were introduced some three decades ago and are found by roadsides along with the rubber trees that produce another valuable cash crop.

In the main, however, the area that Siwa presides over, is widely known for such attractive features as wide beaches washed by the Andaman Sea, spectacular limestone cliffs and nature trails through tropical forests.

Krabi’s oil palm plantations account for nearly 40 percent of the 320,000 hectares in Thailand where these trees are grown. Bangkok is hoping to have 1.6 million hectares under oil palm cultivation in the next two decades.

Krabi is expected to take the lead in the country’s oil palm expansion drive, adds Siwa. ‘’The supply here is not enough to cater to future demand. We want to remain the province having the largest oil palm plantations in Thailand.’’

It is a vision being advanced by officials at the ministry of energy, too. ‘’You save on oil imports, you help the local farmers growing the oil palm to get a better income and you help to improve the environment,’’ Panich Pongpirodom, director-general of the department of alternative energy development and efficiency, told IPS.

To make this case for the environment, the energy ministry confirmed that the estimated 10,000 petrol stations across the country have to convert by April next year for supplying bio-diesel for which palm oil is pivotal. Major car manufacturers such as Toyota, Honda and Mitsubishi ‘’have accepted our policy’’ to have regular fuel mixed with two percent of ‘’renewable fuel,’’ adds Panich.

Yet, as Thailand looks to the fortunes that palm oil offers other South-east Asian countries that are bigger players in the palm oil trade find themselves caught in an escalating debate.

Countries like Indonesia and Malaysia, two of the world’s leading producers of palm oil, are grappling with the question of exactly how green palm oil is. Environmentalists and grassroots groups are taking on governments in the developed and developing world and the private sector on this score.

Friends of the Earth International (FoEI), a global environmental lobby group, drove home this point Tuesday in a critical report about the devastating impact of palm oil plantations in Indonesia, where the government is planning to convert 20 million more hectares into palm oil plantations.

‘’Wilmar, the world’s biggest trader in palm oil, is illegally logging rainforests, setting forests on fire and violating the rights of local communities in Indonesia,’’ charged the FoEI report.

And it pointed an accusing finger at European countries for contributing to such havoc on the Indonesian environment, since Europe has emerged as ‘’one of the world’s biggest oil importers, with palm oil used as an ingredient in many food products and cosmetics, and increasingly as a bio-fuel.’’

‘’Europe’s growing demand for palm oil is leading to environmental and social devastation,’’ says Rully Syumanda, forest campaigner at FoEI’s Indonesia office.

Wilmar, the multinational company under fire, is based in Singapore. ‘’Wilmar has violated an Indonesian law that requires approval of the Environmental Impact Assessment before palm oil development begins,’’ FoEI researchers reveal after having studied three plantations owned by Wilmar International Ltd in West Kalimantan on the island of Borneo.

Malaysia-based environmentalist Jennifer Mourin is hardly surprised by the intensifying debate over palm oil and its global links. ‘’We cannot have a polluting industry like palm oil go on,’’ says Mourin, deputy executive director of the Pesticide Action Network (PAN), a non-governmental group that champions biodiversity across the world.

‘’There are a lot of concerns about the expansion of the palm oil business in this area. Some of the oldest jungles and places of biodiversity are being hit,’’ she said during a telephone interview from Penang. ‘’We are also worried about the acres of land being reduced to a monoculture.’’

Her group, in fact, was part of a broader coalition of 30 groups from across the world that called for a moratorium on the European Union’s ‘’rush for bio-fuels’’ by offering ‘’incentives for agro-fuels and agro-energy from large-scale monocultures.’’ This initiative, launched in the last week of June, warned that ‘’agro-fuel production for EU markets will accelerate climate change, destroy biodiversity and uproot local communities.’’

In Thailand, which is on the periphery of this debate and is far from being an exporter of palm oil, the environmental cost of palm oil production has still to sink in, particularly among the local communities. Those IPS spoke with are drawn by the financial gains they stand to make with expanded plantations.

‘’We can get a steady income from palm oil because we can work throughout the year, unlike rubber tapping which cannot be done during the rainy season,’’ says Wattana Rerngsamut, who also makes a living as a tour guide. ‘’We can work twice a month, every 15 days, with the palm oil tree.’’

The only concern is the investment palm oil groves require. ‘’We have to buy a lot of fertilizer; it is expensive,’’ he explained. ‘’This is a big problem.’’

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38415

[GWR]

The false promise of biofuels
Philip Bowring
16 July 2007
The idea that plant-based fuel will save the planet is silly, dangerous and expensive.

Evidence continues to mount that the world’s growing appetite for energy produced from agricultural products is having a serious impact on food and other commodity prices as farmers, particularly in the United States, convert cropland from food production. Over time the impact will be large and mostly detrimental on income distribution around the world. It will probably be abandoned within a decade.

Fidel Castro, the octogenarian Cuban caudillo, roused himself in late June from the autumn of his patriarchy to denounce US support for the use of food crops in fuel production, saying support for such uses could cause huge numbers of deaths from hunger. Last week Achim Steiner, the head of the U.N. Environment Program echoed Castro’s concerns, saying there is serious reason for concern about the potential for ethanol production to threaten food supplies for the poor.

With its astonishing ability to convert sunlight and rain into energy, Asia’s tropical belt is at the epicenter of this new environmental chimera. But across the planet, while weather and other supply factors have been at work for some crops and in some locations, they are only a small part of the explanation for food prices.

Wheat, for instance, has risen from US$325 a ton to US$620 over the past 12 months, soybeans from US$675 to US$875, corn from US$225 to US$375, rice from US$7 a bushel to US$10. Indeed of the most-traded basic foodstuffs, only sugar is about where it was a year ago, at 10 US cents a pound, and even hit 20 cents in between.

Of industrial crops, cotton has been erratic but is back at 60 cents a pound compared with 50 cents a year ago and there are growing indications that a shift in land from cotton to corn and other bio-fuel crops in China and the US will lead to supply shortfalls in the not too distant future. Even rubber output may be squeezed if the palm oil boom, resulting from its appeal as a source of bio-diesel, leads to further conversion of rubber plantations to palm oil.

Much of the marginal demand for the food crops is directly attributable to the rush to make ethanol and bio-diesel in the name of reducing carbon emissions, whether or not the substitution is justified on economic grounds, let alone environmental ones.

That is not to condemn bio-fuels out of hand. Brazil has been producing ethanol from sugar cane since the first oil crisis and now does so very profitably. But Brazil already has the world’s lowest production costs for sugar. Sugar’s international price has long been depressed by subsidies elsewhere – notably the EU’s sugar beet subsidy and US domestic support prices for sugar. It is possible that Thailand can get a net benefit from turning both sugar cane and tapioca (otherwise a low-value crop grown on marginal land) into ethanol. In the short run at least, Malaysia and Indonesia are benefiting from a rise in palm oil prices, which they hope will be underwritten for the longer term by investing in bio-diesel plants which will sustain demand.

Almost everywhere, from the US to the EU to Malaysia, rules and tax breaks have been created to push bio-fuel output and usage. The additional demand for feedstock for the multiple bio-fuel plants now under construction or planned is hard to estimate. However, even if oil prices collapse and many plants never get built, government regulations and existing installed capacity are likely to ensure that crop prices remain high for the foreseeable future. Indeed the price rises of the past year may be just the beginning.

Yet even on the most optimistic estimates bio-fuels can have no more than a marginal impact on carbon emissions.

While the West basks in the idea that bio-fuel is cleaning up the planet, additional carbon releases are being created by the clearance of tropical forests for oil palm in Southeast Asia and soybeans in Brazil. Inefficiencies are rising from US and EU agricultural policies, with the US subsidizing corn producers by subjecting Brazil’s sugar-based ethanol to prohibitive tariffs and the EU’s ethanol policy absorbing surplus food and thereby delaying the reform of its agricultural policy, which has disrupted world markets for decades. In addition, chemical inputs and fossil-fuel burning machinery are needed to bring marginal land into production.

There will also be a major global impact on income distribution. Farmers generally will benefit from a rise in product prices, which is a plus. In most countries farmers have suffered from a decline in the terms of trade relative to their urban compatriots. However, much of the benefit will go to the largest farmers in rich and middle income countries with large agricultural surpluses – US, Canada, Argentina, Malaysia, Australia etc – and to corporate agriculture.

Populous countries such as India, China and Vietnam, with a high proportion of their population still rural, face a dilemma. Higher farm prices are good but they must also take into account the needs of the majority, whether urban or rural, who are not farmers. That means either suppressing farm gate prices by one means or another, or using central government funds that should be allocated to education or health, to subsidize basic foods.

The bottom line is that the poorer a person or family, the higher the proportion of income that is spent on food. A rise in food prices relative to other goods necessarily shifts income from the poor to the relatively rich, whether the car-owning majority in rich countries or the car-owning minority in poor ones. It could also lead to a reversal of the tendency towards improving diet. Producers of animal pigs, chickens, farmed fish, and egg all turn crops into animal protein and hence their prices will rise almost as fast as those of the inputs. Even the cost of simple cotton clothing may rise as a result of a shift of land into other uses.

Bio-fuels may salve the consciences of energy-intensive rich countries and benefit the few poorer ones that have an abundance of useful ingredients such as palm oil. But a few years from now the notion that enforced use of bio-fuels could be good for the planet will be see as one of the sillier ideas to have gripped the world at the beginning of the 21st century.



http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=581&Itemid=32

[GWR]

I see some benefit in projects such as this which do not take land out of food production, and which exploit and clean up previously unwanted by-products:

August 27, 2007 09:54 AM

CPF To Produce, Sell Bio-Diesel From Recycled Cooking Oil

BANGKOK, Aug 27 (Bernama) -- Charoen Pokphand Foods (CPF), a subsidiary of Thailand's market leading conglomerate Charoen Pokphand Group, plans to produce bio-diesel fuel from recycled vegetable oil for use in Thailand and for export, a senior CPF executive said Sunday.

CPF senior vice president Choosak Lertamornpitti said his company is producing high quality bio-diesel, which has been certified by the Ministry of Energy. It can be used with both passenger vehicles and farm trucks.

After a two-year test in making bio-diesel from used vegetable oil, CPF is now able to produce between 500,000-600,000 litres of bio-diesel monthly, the Thailand news agency said in its report.

The bio-diesel is now being used with cars belonging to the company, Choosak said, adding that the company could save about Bt60 million a month by not using conventional diesel.

Meanwhile, Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amaranand said Thailand had achieved a great success in developing alternative energy and energy conservation, as the country received 10 out of 24 prizes during last week's ASEAN Energy Ministers meeting in Singapore. One of the 10 prizes went to CPF.

Piyasvasti said earlier that energy ministry policy encourages local production of bio-diesel from used vegetable oil, after it was found that only one-third of the country's 74 million litres of vegetable cooking oil was recycled.

If the nation's entire annual volume of cooking oil was processed and recycled as bio-diesel fuel, he said, Thailand could save about Bt1.57 billion yearly on imports of diesel oil.

Initially, the ministry targeted encouraging local production of such bio-diesel in 400 communities nationwide by year end, with each community making between 100-150 litres of bio-diesel daily.

-- BERNAMA

http://www.bernama.com.my/

[GWR]

Truthfully, I was more struck by the picture than the report. An interesting variant of Amphetamine Alphabet Art::) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Car Free Day in Thailand to save energy, cut pollution

http://etna.mcot.net/newsimages/p31809.jpg
[Photo: TNA]

BANGKOK, Sept 22 (TNA) - Over 1,200 bicyclists Saturday joined in festivities organised by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) as part of its campaign to observe 'Car Free Day', aimed at saving energy and reducing air pollution, Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin said Saturday.

Wearing yellow shirts to signify and celebrate His Majesty the King's birthday (the monarch was born on a Monday, and yellow is the colour associated with Monday for Thai people) 1,221 bicyclists rode in a pattern of the map of Thailand, sang the national anthem at the Supachalasai National Stadium and then rode to Bangkok City Hall as enthusiastic people watched on both sides of their route.

More than 2,000 people, including movie stars, also joined the event, presided over by Mr. Apirak who said that the campaign was held simultaneously in every major city worldwide. The campaign was organised in an attempt to reduce global warming and activities would continue to be held throughout this year and next intended to cut carbon dioxide by 15 per cent in the capital.

During the event, Bung-earn Sri-intarasut rode a bicycle with wheels measuring 2.5-metres in height, believed to be the largest in Thailand, to join the event. A number of people had tried to ride the bicycle which Mr. Bung-earn said took him about seven months to build, and which was only completed last week.

Five campaigns will be held during the rest of the year: reducing the use of cars, using compact fluorescent lamps instead of standard incandescent lamps, using alternative energy, reducing and separating garbage, and planting trees, Mr. Apirak said.

In the northern Chiang Mai province, some 1,000 cyclists participated in a 'Car Free Day' event. Participating cyclists rode their bicycles to San Kamphaeng district and visited several interesting places on the way. They also plan to ride and visit other exciting destinations in the city on Sunday.

Events were organised in Chiang Mai after it was found that it is one of the five top Thai provinces which consumed oil most at 500 million litres annually. Last year, some 83,000 new cars were registered in the city. (TNA)

Last Update : 2007-09-22 / 14:57:06 (GMT+7:00)
http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=31809

Related thread on bike lanes:

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=17216#post17216

http://www.bangkokpost.com/230907_front.jpg
[Photo: Bangkok Post]

[GWR]

I note that no one seems to have mentioned the known problems with such projects here. How do you ensure that ordinary farmers do actually benefit in the long-term from energy crop projects? As with almost all agriculture/horticulture in Thailand, the system is almost always skewed towards benefitting further those who are already rich. And how do you prevent massive energy crop acreages endangering the nation's food security? Indeed, even if you were to concentrate on energy production from crop residues, there is a strong possibility that you will be robbing low-organic matter tropical soils still further:

November 02, 2007 12:41 PM

Use Abundance Of Crops As New Energy Source, Says Thai PM

By D.Arul Rajoo

BANGKOK, Nov 2 (Bernama) -- Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said today Asean and its three dialogue partners should take advantage of the abundance of agricultural crops and the technological know-how in the region to transform them into energy sources.

He said crops such as sugar cane, cassava, coconut and oil palm could be readily converted into bio-fuel.

"Bio-energy has already generated enormous public interest and debate within the international arena. Given our current dependence on fossil fuels within Asia, we need to make this potential a reality," he said when opening the Seventh Asean Plus Three Agriculture and Forestry Ministers Meeting here.

Agriculture and Agro-Based Industry Minister Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin is representing Malaysia at the meeting.

Surayud said that in view of the importance of energy to continued economic growth and poverty reduction, the region's crop options needed to be explored to improve access to energy alongside ensuring food security.

"As part of this exercise, we need to enhance exchanges on crop development and farm management to ensure optimum yields. And I would like to urge efforts to speed up the development of efficient bio-fuel technologies," he added.

He said that as each country developed production capacities, and Thailand alone expected to triple output of ethanol from sugarcane next year, member countries also needed to cooperate on common standards and creating an adequate market for bio-fuels to make the switch from fossil fuels as smooth as possible.

Only through concerted efforts could countries drastically reduce the use of fossil fuels, effectively contribute to climate change mitigation and adaptation and ensure sustainable common future, he said.

On cooperation among member countries in the agricultural sector, Surayud said agriculture had gained much impetus from the various initiatives but the reality remained that while farmers in some countries might be better off than others, many of the farmers were still living in the poverty trap.

"We see them continuing to suffer from uncertainty and governments' inadequate support, particularly rural farmers, coastal and indigenous communities. This meeting, therefore, gives us hope that we can take forward our co-operation on agriculture as part of the war against poverty."

Surayud also said that as climate change affected weather patterns and the prevalence of disease, capacity building on livestock health, animal disease control and addressing the threat of avian flu also demanded ongoing attention and the application of appropriate technology.

-- BERNAMA
Non-specific link:
http://www.bernama.com.my/

See also this thread for details of the PTT/EGAT agreement on NG supplies to Chana Power Station - which will come online in May 2008:
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=17973&postcount=167

[GWR]

18 November 2007
Land oil fields discovered in Phetchabun province
The Department of Mineral Fuels (DMF) reports that oil fields have been discovered in Phetchabun province; moreover, the fields can produce 5,000 barrels of crude oil per day. In this regard, DMF is expediting their approval to initiate its 20th contract bidding process.

The Director General of the Department of Mineral Fuels, Mr. Krairit Nilkuha (ไกรฤทธิ์ นิลคูหา), revealed that the land oil fields in Nasanun (นาสนุ่น) area have been found by a Canadian company ‘Pan Orient Ltd,' which has rights to produce petroleum and is currently positioned in Wichian Buri district (วิเชียรบุรี) in Phetchabun province.

The discovery will will alleviate the oil crisis in Thailand as the kingdom will be able to produce more crude oil in compliance with the market's demand. It will also help reduce cost of oil imports.
Reporter : RTI-Reporter02
http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/previewnews.php?news_id=255011180009

[mdechgan]

Thailand has 7 oil refineries with capacity of something likw 860,000 barrels per day.

I don't think an extra 5,000 barrels would help alleviate the oil crisis that much.

[Wisarut]

That crude oil must go to either Bueng Phra (the Oil Depot in Phitsanuloke Suburb for Larn Krabue Oil in Kamphaeng Phet) or Taphan Hin (the dropping point for Phetchabun. :rolleyes:

[waerth]

Thailand has 7 oil refineries with capacity of something likw 860,000 barrels per day.

I don't think an extra 5,000 barrels would help alleviate the oil crisis that much.

Were do you get that number from. I am reading here: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071116/opec_brazil.html?.v=1 that Brazil has discovered a huge oilfield and that that will produce 100.000 barrels a day (so a huge oilfield only produces 1/8th of Thailands refining capacity?). It also says: ''OPEC member Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil exporter, produces nearly 10.4 million barrels of oil per day'' ..... so Thailands refining capacity is nearly 10% of Saudi's oil output?? I really question these figures. I always thought Thailand had only 2 oil refineries btw, but am not sure about that.

Waerth

[mdechgan]

Were do you get that number from. I am reading here: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071116/opec_brazil.html?.v=1 that Brazil has discovered a huge oilfield and that that will produce 100.000 barrels a day (so a huge oilfield only produces 1/8th of Thailands refining capacity?). It also says: ''OPEC member Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil exporter, produces nearly 10.4 million barrels of oil per day'' ..... so Thailands refining capacity is nearly 10% of Saudi's oil output?? I really question these figures. I always thought Thailand had only 2 oil refineries btw, but am not sure about that.

Waerth

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Asia-and-Oceania/Thailand-INDUSTRY.html

"The four largest refineries are run by Shell Company of Thailand Ltd. at Rayong (275,000 barrels per day capacity), Thai Oil Company Ltd. at Sriracha (185,000 barrels per day), Esso Standard Thailand Ltd., at Sriracha (160,000 barrels per day) and Star Petroleum Refining Company at Rayong (130,000 barrels per day), respectively, accounting for over 87% of total refining capacity."

The remaining 13% are by 3 other smaller refineries.
These figures are from 2002, so they are not up to date.
However only something like 1/5th of the capacity is for gasoline.
another 20% is for jet fuel and LPG gas. The rest is mainly for lower grade fuels for industry like power plants and plastics, etc.

5,000 barrels roughly equals to about 155,000 gallons of oil. Only about 9-10% is actually refined and converted to jet fuel. So it measures to be about 15,000 gallons of Jet A fuel per day. Just enough to fill up a mid sized airliner such as an Airbus A300 or Boeing 767 once per day. 5,000 barrels per day can supply about 15 gas stations per day or 1 station for 2 weeks.

5,000 barrels per day does help, but not significantly enough.

[waerth]

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Asia-and-Oceania/Thailand-INDUSTRY.html

"The four largest refineries are run by Shell Company of Thailand Ltd. at Rayong (275,000 barrels per day capacity), Thai Oil Company Ltd. at Sriracha (185,000 barrels per day), Esso Standard Thailand Ltd., at Sriracha (160,000 barrels per day) and Star Petroleum Refining Company at Rayong (130,000 barrels per day), respectively, accounting for over 87% of total refining capacity."

The remaining 13% are by 3 other smaller refineries.
These figures are from 2002, so they are not up to date.
However only something like 1/5th of the capacity is for gasoline.
another 20% is for jet fuel and LPG gas. The rest is mainly for lower grade fuels for industry like power plants and plastics, etc.

5,000 barrels roughly equals to about 155,000 gallons of oil. Only about 9-10% is actually refined and converted to jet fuel. So it measures to be about 15,000 gallons of Jet A fuel per day. Just enough to fill up a mid sized airliner such as an Airbus A300 or Boeing 767 once per day. 5,000 barrels per day can supply about 15 gas stations per day or 1 station for 2 weeks.

5,000 barrels per day does help, but not significantly enough.

Hmmmm ok point taken. But why do they call the find in Brazil a monsterfind if it wouldn't even produce enough to fill the capacity of one oilrefinery.

Waerth

[jpatokal]

Hmmmm ok point taken. But why do they call the find in Brazil a monsterfind if it wouldn't even produce enough to fill the capacity of one oilrefinery.
100,000 bpd in Brazil is just the initial production. The big news there is the size of the field: estimated at 8 billion barrels, they could pump a million bpd out of that one for over twenty years.

[doseiai]

Brazil is way better off in the energy front than Thailand. Most people don't realize they are a technological superpower, and have used ethanol from sugar cane since 1970's. They have the capacity to produce nuclear weapons in a week if threatened, if they don't already have them (and have nuclear power plants), and Brazilian coders have hacked into the Pentagon. They manufacture passenger aircraft nearly the size of a 737, yet maneuverable like fighter jets. Feel much safer in an Embraer E-jet than a A320 or 737. That's why they call Airbus, Air-bus. It's reaction time is like a big fat bus.

Most cars in brazil now are flex fuel...can handle either just as easy without hurting the engine. I've been to Sao Paulo...the air pollution has a sweet odor to it. Brazil is a country that doesn't really need that oil...they have vast hydropower reserves, vast land for more sugar cane, and a ethanol system already in place. (Tho nothing is w/o its drawbacks)

As for Thailand, its real gold mine oil finds are off its southern coast near Cambodia. The problem is, both countries are bickering over who gets the oil...I think Camby needs it more badly than Thailand, but thats a whole other topic...

Thailand would be smart to convert most of its vehicle fleet to natural gas...and put rail construction into high gear. BUS BRT (another Brazilian invention) is a good idea...if Jakarta, Beijing, Sao Paulo, and LA can make it work, it can work in Bangkok. I've seen it...rode it daily, it's cool, it's very popular and high capacity (Wilshire BRT and Orange Line are the shining examples, called Metro Rapid in LA) though can't compete with a crowded subway. You can make all lights as they turn green by following a BRT bus in LA!:cool:

Really neat pics of the pioneering BRT in Curitiba, Brazil, with stylish semi-transparent circular tubes for shelters and orange elongated buses:

http://www.kakura.jp/hw/photos/251/251_2006-11_photos_curitiba.html#08676

[Wisarut]

Brazil is way better off in the energy front than Thailand. Most people don't realize they are a technological superpower, and have used ethanol from sugar cane since 1970's. They have the capacity to produce nuclear weapons in a week if threatened, if they don't already have them (and have nuclear power plants), and Brazilian coders have hacked into the Pentagon. They manufacture passenger aircraft nearly the size of a 737, yet maneuverable like fighter jets. Feel much safer in an Embraer E-jet than a A320 or 737. That's why they call Airbus, Air-bus. It's reaction time is like a big fat bus.

Most cars in brazil now are flex fuel...can handle either just as easy without hurting the engine. I've been to Sao Paulo...the air pollution has a sweet odor to it. Brazil is a country that doesn't really need that oil...they have vast hydropower reserves, vast land for more sugar cane, and a ethanol system already in place. (Tho nothing is w/o its drawbacks)

As for Thailand, its real gold mine oil finds are off its southern coast near Cambodia. The problem is, both countries are bickering over who gets the oil...I think Camby needs it more badly than Thailand, but thats a whole other topic...

Thailand would be smart to convert most of its vehicle fleet to natural gas...and put rail construction into high gear. BUS BRT (another Brazilian invention) is a good idea...if Jakarta, Beijing, Sao Paulo, and LA can make it work, it can work in Bangkok. I've seen it...rode it daily, it's cool, it's very popular and high capacity (Wilshire BRT and Orange Line are the shining examples, called Metro Rapid in LA) though can't compete with a crowded subway. You can make all lights as they turn green by following a BRT bus in LA!:cool:

Really neat pics of the pioneering BRT in Curitiba, Brazil, with stylish semi-transparent circular tubes for shelters and orange elongated buses:

http://www.kakura.jp/hw/photos/251/251_2006-11_photos_curitiba.html#08676


Now, even Natural Gas is in short supply ... long lien for refuelign NGV is a norm .... as it happed in every mornign and evening

[mdechgan]

The fields in the Gulf of Thailand.
I'm not sure if they are gas field or oil fields.
Belonging to Thailand or Cambodia, I think it depends on who finds it and develops it first than who needs it most.

Thailand is a mainly diesel economy. So many diesel pickup trucks, buses, 10 wheelers, I think we use diesel for our power plants if I'm not mistaken.

It would be much help if Thailand were to shift many of these needs to alternative fuels. Passenger cars are another matter. Benzene is still number 1. Although taxis using LPG NGV does help.

It would really help if there was a proper rail network or transportation system to deliver goods cross country. Usually if someone wants to deliver some goods down south usually it is delivered by pickup trucks or 10 wheelers. Ever been to the Phutthamonthon area? So many pickup trucks.
If they was only an infrastructure to put these goods into a cargo container and put on the rail more efficiently. There is only 1 road to the south and that is PetchKasem. The traffic bottleneck in Petchburi, ohh my. Passenger cars, trucks, pickups, buses all jockying position on a two lane road. I think it has been expanded a bit but still, it is a cheap fix.

[Wisarut]

The fields in the Gulf of Thailand.
I'm not sure if they are gas field or oil fields.
Belonging to Thailand or Cambodia, I think it depends on who finds it and develops it first than who needs it most.

Thailand is a mainly diesel economy. So many diesel pickup trucks, buses, 10 wheelers, I think we use diesel for our power plants if I'm not mistaken.

It would be much help if Thailand were to shift many of these needs to alternative fuels. Passenger cars are another matter. Benzene is still number 1. Although taxis using LPG NGV does help.

It would really help if there was a proper rail network or transportation system to deliver goods cross country. Usually if someone wants to deliver some goods down south usually it is delivered by pickup trucks or 10 wheelers. Ever been to the Phutthamonthon area? So many pickup trucks.
If they was only an infrastructure to put these goods into a cargo container and put on the rail more efficiently. There is only 1 road to the south and that is PetchKasem. The traffic bottleneck in Petchburi, ohh my. Passenger cars, trucks, pickups, buses all jockying position on a two lane road. I think it has been expanded a bit but still, it is a cheap fix.

So far, any vehicle can be use NGV ... but not the heavy duty locomotives ...

There was an experiment on NGV fuel on GEA loco ... but it FAILED due to the overheating problems whcih cause loco engines to break down often. ...

This pet project had remiend abotu the old project of lignite burnign steam locomotives in 1950's ... It was canceled after Dr. Chao Na Silawat (The the cheif Engineer of Makkasan Workshop - Now Provy Council) have submitted the report in 1961 that

Lignite burnign steam loco is noth a worthy project ... Eben Australian Railways who have successfully come up with lignite burning steam loco lkhave promptly switch to Diesel Electric or Electric Loco ....

Even Prince Purajat Jaiyakorn (the first Siamese RSR Director) have warend that the lignite from Mae Mo had lower calories than evne firefood.


If Ministry of Energy still INSIST on the pet project of covertign Diesel Loco into NGV byurning, I think Ministery of Enegy better ask EGAT to set up the new poer plant for SRT to support electrification project ... by usign NGV from PTT of coruse!

[GWR]

Thailand's alternative energy use soars in first 10 months

http://enews.mcot.net/upfile/1196146683.jpg
[Photo: MCOT]

BANGKOK, Nov 27 (TNA) – Thailand's consumption of alternative energy has soared with bio-diesel use skyrocketing by over 1,000 per cent and natural gas for vehicles (NGV) more than doubling.

Mettha Bunthuengsuk, director-general of the Energy Business Department, conceded that NGV is now unavailable for sale in some areas since there is a shortage of gas cylinders.

Thailand's state-owned energy giant PTT Plc had already shifted a purchase order for the cylinders to companies in Brazil from South Korean companies in order to address the shortage.

It is expected the problem would be solved in a few months.

He said NGV had gained more popularity worldwide. In Thailand, the consumption of alternative energy including NGV, gasohol (a blend of 90 per cent gasoline and 10 per cent ethanol) and bio-diesel had increased considerably in the past several months.

Simultaneously, most oil traders affirmed they would stop distribution of premium gasoline after the New Year festival. Certain premium gasoline will be available only in major cities.

Mr. Mettha said the local consumption of fuel in the first 10 months of this year increased at a much slower pace than that in the same period last year.

The daily consumption of premium gasoline totalled 15.7 million litres, down 2.7 per cent, that of diesel 51.1 million litres, up 2.2 per cent, and that of gasohol 4.5 million litres, up 28.1 per cent.

The daily use of NGV totalled 21.2 million cubic feet, up 107.6 per cent, that of bio-diesel 1.34 million litres, up 1,393.9 per cent, that of cooking gas 9.9 million kilogrammes, up 13.2 per cent.

The daily crude oil imports totalled 814,000 barrels, down 3.3 per cent, and the value of oil imports totaled Bt576 billion, down 11.2 per cent. (TNA)-E005

Business News : Last Update : 13:51:22 27 November 2550 (GMT+7:00)
http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=1522

[doseiai]

Yeah, its a shame that there is a NG shortage, I'm thinking it may be a distribution problem. I guess piped natural gas into households and businesses would solve those problems, as PTT is pushing for, but according to BKK Post, it would take 15 years to implement. :(
Pakistan for some reason is the world leader in NG vehicles, and runs over a million cars on natural gas already. Why Pakistan, I don't know. :confused:

btw, this find seems to be in Petchabun, not the gulf.

NG, like oil, is subject to price increases too. Bush, big oil, and speculation have no limits it seems. :mad:
My prediction is when Bush is out, prices will get back to semi-normal. Besides, oil hit $16 per barrel in 2002, there is no justification (only manipulation) for it being $90, or even $60. If that happens, the NG push may come under scrutiny.

Brazil uses sugar cane, far more productive per sq m. and in energy content than corn ethanol, but I don't think Thailand has much spare land for it, as Thailand wants to maintain its position as rice and rubber exporter. Cellulosic ethanol technology...I think this would be the real boon, as cellulose, the main constituent of plant fiber, is unusable now, and just thrown away or burned. Japan has already demonstrable technology to make cellulosic ethanol on a small scale competitive with $100 oil. ;) I heard a lot of buzz from Silicon Valley, but little in the way of anything demonstrable for now.

[Wisarut]

Now, many people have started GRILLING AI Piyasawat and his wife as the one who act behind the scene for the liberalization of natural gas prices ... as the way to fill up theri coffers for theri own gas business ...

[GWR]

Has this project has been properly thought through?
Will it result in the shortages of other agro-industrial products that have been predicted by some experts?
And/or will we eventually end up finding - after everyone has jumped on the bandwagon - that it is no longer profitable?:


10 December 2007
Krabi to increase palm plantation in line with HM the King’s remark
Krabi province sets the target to increase palm plantation by 70,000 rai in preparation for the production of bio-diesel in line with His Majesty the King’s remark on alternative energies.

Krabi Governor Siwa Sirisaowalak (ศิวะ ศิริเสาวลักษณ์) discloses that at present the province covers more than 800,000 rai of palm plantation, yielding to about two million tonnes of palm oil each year. However, he says the plantation is still insufficient for demand of palm oil factories. The province has therefore set plans to expand palm plantation by instructing farmers in the agricultural reformed areas to grow more palms.

The governor adds that relevant units will also educate the farmers about palm growing in order to increase the amount of palm produce per rai.
http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/previewnews.php?news_id=255012100027

[GWR]

I have a great deal of suspicion of projects like the following. My information on tapioca farming is that it tends to result in empoverished soils that are good for little else after a few years of growing the same crop on the same field. Of course, the government's agriculture experts will probably tell you that they encourage rotation, but the reality is that most farmers tend to monocrop until a real problem sets in. Where's the 'sufficiency' in that?:

11 December 2007
New government should promote tapioca farming
The Thai Tapioca Trade Association President, Mr. Chen Wongboonsin(เจน วงศ์บุญสิน), calls for the next government to help promote tapioca farming, in a bid to raise its output to five million tons. The crops will be used for producing ethanol, and about three to four ethanol factories will be set up next year.

Mr. Chen says 22.6 million tons of tapioca will be produced next year, but the amount may be inadequate, as the demand in the market is expected to be around 30 million tons. Thus, Mr. Chen would like the new government to help encourage farmers to grow more tapioca to meet the rising demand, as prices of conventional fuels continue to increase. He says lower output of tapioca would directly impact the supply of animal feeds as well.
http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/previewnews.php?news_id=255012110018

[GWR]

One is left wondering how the pollution from such a conversion process measures up against other methods of energy production. One suspects that there is some problem here that stops the proponents of such a project using it as a selling point. Certainly anything that tries to rid the country of plastic litter is welcome, but the pollution issue should be open to public scrutiny:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/06/14/business/business_30036798.php

Converting plastic waste into energy
New technology improves conversion of industrial byproducts into fuel oil
Published on April 18, 2008
Pongpen Sutharoj

A new technology can turn waste into value. From being something that people throw away, waste such as plastic and byproducts from manufacturing plants can become a key raw material for the production of fuel oil and electricity.

In an attempt to offer a possible solution to the world's energy crisis, Prompt Mark, a local engineering company, has joined hands with Rajamangala University of Technology, Thonburi to develop the world's first ever "waste-to-energy" solution which combines the two techniques of pyrolysis and gasification into one system.

Prompt Mark president Sombat Teekasap said the indigenously developed system can turn plastic waste into fuel oil at a higher rate rather than with gasification alone - something that is already available in the market.

In a test, the new system converted one kilogram of plastic waste into 0.5 litre of fuel oil. The gasification system produces just 0.3 litre using the same amount of plastic waste. The fuel oil can be used to run a diesel engine.

Plastic waste, Sombat said, would go through the pyrolysis process to break down the carbon-rich matter into simpler molecules, at temperatures of about 400 degree Celsius to 500 C.

The resulting gas is sent for the gasification process which takes place at 1,000 C, this time to break down the residual hydrocarbons into a synthetic gas by introducing a controlled amount of oxygen. After the gasification process is complete, fuel oil is obtained.

Sombat said fuel oil derived from the process could be used with diesel engines that are typically used in agricultural machines, to run a motorcycle or to generate electricity.

"We have designed the system to be able to input 200 kg of plastic waste per hour. At this rate, the system can produce fuel oil at 120 litres an hour and generate 200 kilowatts of electricity," he said.

Two-hundred kilowatts of electricity can serve the needs of 800 households. Thus, the system can be put in use as an alternative energy source in a manufacturing plant or in a small community.

The company spent three years in co-developing the system along with a research team at Rajamangala University of Technology. The system is now available for commercial use.

Prompt Mark will join hands with Royal Motor Works, a local waste-management company, to market the new system.

Sombat said the system will be sold at around Bt35 million. By using waste to produce energy, it is estimated that companies who buy the system will be able to break even within six years.

Prompt Mark also plans to develop the second version of the waste-to-energy system.

Sombat said the new version would increase the fuel oil yield from 0.5 litre per one kilogram of plastic waste to 0.6 litre.

Apart from offering an alternative for the generation of energy, it is hoped the new development will also help the country reduce plastic waste.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/04/18/technology/technology_30070992.php

See also related thread on Condoms 2 Hydrocarbons:
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=12240&highlight=meechai#post12240

[GWR]

Verenium, Marubeni to pool resources on new plant
By The Nation
Published on July 19, 2008

Region in dire need of facility to convert sugar-cane residue into cellulosic ethanol, companies say

Verenium Corp and Marubeni Corp yesterday said that pursuant to the terms of their joint-development agreement they were continuing to advance the commercialisation of cellulosic-ethanol projects utilising Verenium's proprietary technology in Asia with the opening of a 3-million-litre-a-year plant in Saraburi.

Verenium is a leader in the development and commercialisation of next-generation cellulosic ethanol, an environmentally friendly and renewable transportation fuel.

The plant in Thailand is co-located with a facility that will produce ethanol from sugarcane-derived sucrose, which is abundant in the region.

Bagasse, the biomass residue from the sugarcane plant, will be the primary source of feedstock for the cellulosic facility, which will be converted into ethanol using Verenium's technology.

Marubeni and Tsukishima Kikai have already incorporated Verenium's technology into BioEthanol Japan's 1.4 million-litre-a-year cellulosic-ethanol plant in Osaka, which utilises construction-wood waste as a feedstock.

"We are very excited to see a second cellulosic-ethanol facility move forward, as alternative, cost-competitive and environmentally sound fuel sources are critically needed in Asia," said Toshiya Nagata, ethanol manager of Marubeni's industrial-machinery department.

"We expect that our learning from the Osaka facility, coupled with Verenium's experience in the US, will help to make this plant a rapid commercial success as we look to broaden the footprint and opportunity for cellulosic ethanol in key markets across Asia."

Carlos Riva, president and CEO of Verenium, said he was pleased to see his company's proprietary cellulosic technology continue to serve as a template for the commercialisation of next-generation ethanol in Asia.

"As in the US, we believe cellulosic ethanol derived from non-food biomass is going to play a critical role in the global energy mix, and we look forward to further partnering with Marubeni, as we continue to advance additional strategic corporate-partnership opportunities to expand our technology's reach and potential around the globe."

Marubeni is one of the biggest trading houses in Japan, with headquarters in Tokyo and 115 overseas offices in 70 countries and areas. It has 11 sales divisions in businesses such as energy, chemicals, food and machinery, with consolidated net income reaching 147.2 billion yen (Bt47 billion) for the last fiscal year.

US-based Verenium also develops high-performance specialty enzymes for applications within the alternative-fuel, specialty-industrial-process and animal-nutrition and health markets.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/07/19/business/business_30078468.php

[GWR]

Breakthrough made in Diesel-LPG Conversion
By Ekkaphong Praditphong,
Mayuree Sukyingcharoenwong
The Nation
Published on July 25, 2008
Northern garage claims success, but it's costly

For the first time diesel pickups can now be altered to run on liquid petroleum gas. A garage in Chiang Mai pioneered the technique.

Chiang Mai Yanyont Service can amend a vehicle's engine to run on gas. In the past, the engines had to be swapped for petrol-powered plants.

Ninety per cent of pickups sold are diesel driven. Only Toyota produces pickups and SUVs with petrol engines.

The garage's managing director Kiaittisak Singkhra says petrol engines need to be modified to make them work at lower stresses - at 110psi - instead of the factory specified 250psi.

Some engine parts need to be altered, including spark plugs and distributors, to accommodate lower stresses. He says LPG powered diesel engines experience no mechanical or technical problems.

However, it's not cheap. Compared with Bt18,000 to Bt20,000 to install LPG systems in a petrol-engine vehicle, diesel modification costs Bt55,000 for older models and Bt85,000 for newer ones.

Kiaittisak says his garage handles about five vehicles a day. There are 150 on the waiting list.

It's been installing LPG systems in petrol engines for 20 years and started with diesels last year.

More than 100 diesel conversions have been completed and no problems have been reported beyond the need for a little fine tuning.

Anuchit Klabprasit of the Don Muang Technical College questions the conversions, though. He says engines will wear out faster than usual and replacement of diesel engines with petrol ones is a "waste".

He adds fuel consumption rates of converted diesels will be much higher than petrol conversions.

Nevertheless, he concedes it's a "good investment in times of high petrol prices".

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/07/25/politics/politics_30078932.php

[Wisarut]

They Ignor to advocate Bio Diesel whcih are more practical for heavy duty engines than LPG is due to the fact that it pleases the intersts of PTT shareholders (most are politicians of PPP/TRT).

They have tried to use NGV for Diesel Electric Locomotives ... without success ... It would be better and more practical for massive electrification thatn NGV Locos.

[jerryfin]

Ever since I rode in a Prius a few weeks back in UK, I have tried to find out if they are available here in Thailand. It had appeared that they are not available but there are plans to make the Camry hybrid next year in Rayong. I want to buy a Prius.
Today, while waiting for a bus at Chamchuri Square on Rama 4, I spotted a new Prius with red plates and large "Toyota Prius - 37kms/litre" signs on the side. This looked like a demonstration car...so if they demonstrate it, maybe we can buy it? But where? Previous inquiries at Toyota dealers had drawn very negative responses.