Invasion possible?

[doseiai]

Could it happen again?

We all know that Thailand has been beefing up its arms lately. We all know that Burma is internationally isolated, and unpopular to its people. In 1941, Thailand invaded Burma's Shan State, on the basis it was "Thai" and with a Japanese approval.

http://www.cpamedia.com/history/thailand_in_shan_state/

Thailand has lost a lot of land, Laos, parts of Cambodia, Malaya, Shan in the last 200 years. Thais have not forgotten. Does Thailand have territorial designs on its neighbors?

Could it happen again? What would it take to happen again?

[Wisarut]

Could it happen again?

We all know that Thailand has been beefing up its arms lately. We all know that Burma is internationally isolated, and unpopular to its people. In 1941, Thailand invaded Burma's Shan State, on the basis it was "Thai" and with a Japanese approval.

http://www.cpamedia.com/history/thailand_in_shan_state/

Thailand has lost a lot of land, Laos, parts of Cambodia, Malaya, Shan in the last 200 years. Thais have not forgotten. Does Thailand have territorial designs on its neighbors?

Could it happen again? What would it take to happen again?


That invasion to Shan state was due to the agreements on military cooperation between Thai goverenment and IJA ... since Thailand Never want to put the Armed Forces down South to Singapore following IJA invasion of Malayu or havign direct encounter with British Army in Burma ... they decided to put almost all Army and Air Forces to eastern Shan state instead by forming "Phayap Army".

However, More Thai Armed Forces perished by Malaria than the Bullets of KMT whcih also goign to invade Shan state.

More details can be seen here:

http://www.lannaworld.com/cgi/lannaboard/reply_topic.php?id=9404

This details is dereived from the Book "Thai Armed Forces during WWII" Pubished by Supreme commmander HQ
http://www.tv5.co.th/service/mod/heritage/nation/military/war2/index3.htm
http://www.tv5.co.th/service/mod/heritage/nation/military/war2/index2.htm
http://topicstock.pantip.com/library/topicstock/2007/03/K5271214/K5271214.html

[doseiai]

Wisarut, thanks for those links...if only I could read Thai! sigh :(
Rather than visiting history, I would like to know how the Thai government sees Shan State today. Back then Phibun called it the "Original Thai State" according to the article in English. The operation seemed to be unpopular even during those days. If Burma were to collapse or have a revolution, would Thailand be interested in Shan State? I realize there are tons of poor people there and it would be a burden...but I wonder if in the minds of Thais is it still considered a homeland they want returned to Thailand?

[Wisarut]

Wisarut, thanks for those links...if only I could read Thai! sigh :(
Rather than visiting history, I would like to know how the Thai government sees Shan State today. Back then Phibun called it the "Original Thai State" according to the article in English. The operation seemed to be unpopular even during those days. If Burma were to collapse or have a revolution, would Thailand be interested in Shan State? I realize there are tons of poor people there and it would be a burden...but I wonder if in the minds of Thais is it still considered a homeland they want returned to Thailand?

It was initially popular ... until the war went on ... during the occupation, the supplied from Bangkok including Money to pay the daily allowance and anti-malaria drugs were rarely come on time .... RTA there had to come with improvised for jsut survivial ... need to use bullets as a payment for garments to make their own uniforms to replace the warned out ones .... Barefoot soldiers were a norm. ... need to rely on herbal medicines to cure Malaria ....

Sea salt or even rock salt from Yunnan was a rare commondity ... 1 sack of salt cost about 1 Kyat of Gold (about 15-16 gram of gold) -> a bride price for a virgin girl! Stealing the salt was the consequence .... RTA men had to work to get a sack of paddy whcih they had to remove the husk out by themselves ... using mortar or so

Virtually all armed forces got malaria .... and those who got a chance to go back to BKK or so ... go Syphilis from those whore cats ....

The daily allowance was 2 Baht a day but quinine pills was already shot up to 20 Baht a pills! :eek:

The worst of all were the demobilization while they were still at Shan State due to the poor communication between Battlefields and central Command in Bangkok. ... The results was that they have seen IJA riding Thai trains while RTA men had to walk barefeet across mountains and follow railway tracks from Kengtung to Phisanuloke. ... Worse still, they were INSULTED by their own fellow citizens since they considred thsoe Serithai as the liberators of the country ...

This wounded pride had been paid by the Coup on 8 Novembere 1947.

[Parinand]

The Thai occupation of Shan State during World War II is a part of Field Marshall P. Pibulsonggram's political ambition. Phibun regime steered the country form the path of democracy toward nationalism and militarism, having seen the early achievement of fascist regimes in Germany, Italy, and Japan. One of the most important figures in the People's Party, the group of revolutionists who brought about democracy and constitution, Phibun became Prime Minister for the first time in 1938, the year when Thailand regain "full independence" after the revolutionary government under Prime Minister Colonel Phahon Yothin (also known by his nobility title as Phraya Phahon) with Dr. Pridi Banomyong (also known by his nobility title as Luang Pradist Manudharm) as Foreign Minister succeeded in negotiation to abolish extra-territorial rights with the Great Powers. Although Phibun still valued democracy and constitution, he often exercised his power in an authoritarian fashion to protect the constitution and prevent the old regime to stage a counter-coup. This led to the conflict with Pridi Banomyong, leader of the civilian faction and co-founder of the People's Party, who believe in liberal democracy and social justice. In 1940 after the fall of Paris to the Nazi, the Thai government tried to negotiate with French Indochina on the border disputes. This finally led to an armed conflict, a short victory of the Thai armed forces against the French, and the return of northwestern Cambodian territory to Thailand after the French took it away decades ago. Thus, Phibun ordered the Victory Monument to be built as the memorial to this event. In the mean time, Pridi quietly opposed the military action by producing an English-speaking movie titled "King of the White Elephant" with theme that promoted peaceful resolution of conflicts.

After the Japanese invasion of Thailand, Phibun cooperated with the Japanese army and removed Pridi from his cabinet after Pridi as the Minister of Finance refused to let the Japanese army borrow the Thai government's money. A few days later, Pridi was appointed by the parliament to become a regent in the Regency Council of King Rama VIII and secretly organized an underground resistance movement called the "Free Thai" or "Seri Thai". Phibun, after leading the country into war by signing an alliance agreement with Japan, expanded his nationalist and militarist program by proposing the concept of "Pan-Thaiism", from which Thailand claimed to have a legitimacy in annexing the land where the Dai-Tai-Thai ethnic groups live, such as Shan State, Xihuangbanna in China, Laos, and parts of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Malaya. The occupation of Shan State was his symbolic success in promoting Pan-Thaiism.

His dream of expanding Thailand and integrating the Thai race came short of realization when the Axis lost the War. The parliament removed him from premiership in 1944 and replaced him with a civilian trusted by Pridi. By that time, the Seri Thai had taken control of the administration until the end of the war. But the political turmoil in the post-war years that spun out of control sadly led to the fall of Seri Thai government in the coup of 8 November 1947.

Pan-Thaiism is out of date, and I don't think any Thai leader is stupid enough to flirt with this worthless idea.

[Wisarut]

Wisarut, thanks for those links...if only I could read Thai! sigh :(
Rather than visiting history, I would like to know how the Thai government sees Shan State today. Back then Phibun called it the "Original Thai State" according to the article in English. The operation seemed to be unpopular even during those days. If Burma were to collapse or have a revolution, would Thailand be interested in Shan State? I realize there are tons of poor people there and it would be a burden...but I wonder if in the minds of Thais is it still considered a homeland they want returned to Thailand?

One sure thing, Shan people feel regret that they decided to joint with Burma instead of Thailand due to their own impulsive hostilities toward RTA and RTAF occupied eastern shan state -> First the blunt errors by both IJA and RTA of dropping bombs to the line of people on 14 April 1942 (Songkran festival) due to misunderstandings ... second the stealing of rice, salt or so by RTA ... since they have not recieved full paykment of salary ... ONLY daily allowance was paid to them .... and even allowance was rarely come on time.

[Pkv]

Here's my small contribution to the subject, one I hope people will find superior to the CPAmedia article.

http://www.geocities.com/thailandwwii/shans.html

Also, let me refer to the writings of Eiji Murashima, whose views on the (in)significance of the campaign in the Shan States are summed up in the following paragraphs:

The only argument that can logically explain Thailand’s actions
during the first half of 1942 which coincides with Thai documents
and Japanese primary sources is the pursuit of a ‘greater Thailand’.
Thailand wanted to take advantage of Japan’s ascending military
fortunes and help rid East Asia of Western colonial domination; but
at the same time it hoped to remain as independent as possible from
Japan as it pursued the building of a greater Thai nation centred
on Thailand that would encompass the whole of the region inhabited
by the Thai race. If the development of events during that period of
surging Thai nationalism had allowed the Thais to achieve this end,
Phibun and the Thai military would have won the highest of accolades.
Though not taken up here, this outcome could have brought to power a
Phibun imperial government, a possibility that was widely talked about
at the time. However, the quest for a greater Thailand, launched with
much ardor, soon lay in ruins in the mud and disease of the Shan
region.
Had Phibun and the Thai military succeeded in their grandiose plan
of building Thailand into a great power, it would have stood as the
grandest feat of Thai nationalism. Instead, it turned into a wretched
failure, bringing the country to the brink of defeat. Phibun and the
military leadership under him now sought to distance themselves
from their grand ideas and deny any intentions of trying to build a
greater Thailand. By the end of 1942, they had shifted toward an
anti-Japanese stance and stopped talking about their real motive for
declaring war on the Allied Powers and invading their territories which
was to build a greater Thailand and turn the nation into a great
power.

Personally I'm in full agreement with Parinand; dreams of a greater Thai empire have been long dead and are unlikely to be re-evoked, let alone realised, in the near future.

Added to post by GWR - Related history thread:
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=1876

[mdechgan]

We won't see an Thai invasion force anytime soon.

Internationally it is illegal and the U.N. will never allow it. The last thing we need is U.N forces siding with the Burmese Junta and invading Thailand like they did with the Iraq-Kuwait thing about decade ago.

Thailand does not have the forces or military power to fight a war with Burma. Driving tanks and attacking Rajdamnoen Avenue is one think but fight a war in the Burmese jungles are another. Most of the soldiers are still drunk from partying or too busy extorting money for their protection services.

Thailand doesn't have the budget or economy to wage a war. We barely have the resources to fix the roads and build the Bangkok mass transportation system.

Thailand does not have the resources to expand it borders. The government has trouble governing the available territory now. Heck in some places in Bangkok high speed internet is still unavailable. In some places running water is still unavailable.

Being a part of Thailand isn't all that it seems. The media and telecommunications is still quite censored. The media isn't 100% free. As in freedom of speech, etc., Thailand is only slighty better than Burma. Politically, some may say what's the point in having a democracy if the system isn't working yet. Some may even say that the government and economy has been much more stable since the coup.

Ask the three southern most provinces of Thailand. They don't want to be a part of Thailand. Heck, some wants in, some wants out.

[Ahoerstemeier]

I agree that anything with military action from Thailand is out of the question nowadays, at least for all sensible politicians. But what about the hypothetical situation that the regime in Myanmar breaks apart, and the country sees a similar fate like Yugoslavia, a civil war emerging which ends with several new ethnic states. Burma/Myanmar was mostly held together by force since its independence, so IMHO this situation is somewhat possible. But as Myanmar is already a very poor country, a landlocked independent Shan State would be even more economically challenged. Given the ethnic relationship between Shan and Thai, would a peaceful merge of these two countries after a really democratic referendum be thinkable? The Thais tried to make the Shan area part of their territory twice, once during WWII as mentioned, and the other time was IIRC under King Mongkut, so at least from heart they may be interested. It would of course be quite a challenge economically, much more than the German reunification, but maybe less than a reunification of the two Koreas.

[Parinand]

Thailand and ASEAN should play a more active role in pushing for peace and democracy in Burma. We should cooperate more with the West regarding this issue--just like in 1993 when Thailand invited Nobel peace laureates, including the Dalai Lama, to gather and call for the release of Aung San Sui Kyii.

[Pkv]

Thailand and ASEAN should play a more active role in pushing for peace and democracy in Burma.

Indeed they should. Alas, the rules of Realpolitik dictate that we be nice to the generals - if I'm not mistaken, most of our natural gas is supplied by Burma. Very much like aiding the murderous Khmer Rouge in return for the PRC's promise to stop supporting the CPT.

Call me a cynic if you must, but the creation of a free, united and efficiently democratic Burma is something Thailand probably wouldn't want to see. I seriously doubt this country's ability to compete with a nation as large and as resource-filled as Burma.

Given the ethnic relationship between Shan and Thai, would a peaceful merge of these two countries after a really democratic referendum be thinkable?

Personally the most I see Thailand doing in such a situation is to prop up a friendly puppet government.

Thailand is only slighty better than Burma

What an overstatement. While Thailand is miles behind the western democracies, the country is still a lot better than Burma. I don't see troops breaking up the PPP crowds that gather at Sanarm Luang (and how I wish they would - getting home would be a whole lot easier and peaceful that way), nor am I living in fear of being dragged away to a torture centre. Plus, certain high-ranking members of the TRT are still living the good life as they've always done. I don't think you can say the same for members of the Burmese opposition.

A bit off the topic I know, but let me rant about a case of embarrassing insensitivity that I find typical of my fellow countrymen: at Thammasat's October 6 commemoration ceremonies there hung posters bearing the grisly photos of the massacred students. Accompanying them were the words "Who was crueller, the soldiers in Burma or those responsible for the October 6 incident?" Now don't get me wrong, the Thammasat massacre was vicious and barbaric in a very medieval sort of way, not unlike the Rape of Nanking, but how could anyone say it was worse than the brutality that accompanied the Burmese junta's massive and systematic crushing of the monk-led protesters?

[Parinand]

What an overstatement. While Thailand is miles behind the western democracies, the country is still a lot better than Burma. I don't see troops breaking up the PPP crowds that gather at Sanarm Luang (and how I wish they would - getting home would be a whole lot easier and peaceful that way), nor am I living in fear of being dragged away to a torture centre. Plus, certain high-ranking members of the TRT are still living the good life as they've always done. I don't think you can say the same for members of the Burmese opposition.


I totally agree with this comment. Thailand is far more democratic than Burma.

[Parinand]

Regarding Shan State, I think Thailand should not turn a blind eye to the ethnic cleansing going on overthere. Besides humanitarian aid, we should secretly continue to back the Shan State Army by giving shelter and arm supply to them when needed. The same should be done for the Karen National Union and the Mon people's army.

[mdechgan]

I totally agree with this comment. Thailand is far more democratic than Burma.

In theory Thailand is supposedly supposed to be more democratic.
In practice democracy in Thailand isn't all that it seems.
In reality does being democratic actually make the country better? Better being subjective. You and me or a western educated person may say yes. To an average person living upcoutry, to a taxi driver, to a person struggling to make ends meat may say same same. To someone educated in China, Singapore, or Malaysia perhaps may say no.

In my ASEAN studies class we had a duscussion about about Burma, Singapore, Philippines, China and Malaysia. The guest speaker was an ethnic Burmese but very well educated. Singapore and Malaysia have democratic systems in place, yet they don't work. These countries are basically one party democracies. China is considered to be a communist country, the country is doing very well economically. Economically Malaysia, Singapore, China, some may even say Vietnam is doing very compared to Thailand. Censorship in Thailand has increased dramatically even to the point of bannning blogs and forums on the internet. 100% of the television stations have government influence. Newspaper writers fear repercussions writing articles that criticise the government. Rewind Thailand to about 20 years ago. How far off was Thailand 20 years ago compared to the current Burma of today. Thailand has come a long way, but you will still get dragged off to jail for criticing the monarchy. Freedom of speech, media Thailand still has a long way to go.

Thailand is a democracy yet there is a coup every now and then. Mr. Thaksin was elected with an overwhelming majority popular vote yet he was kicked out. Does Mr. Thaksin think Thailand is a democratic country?

Individual freedoms are a very subjective topic. Yes the Thai people have more individual freedoms than say a Singaporean or Chinese person, but is the average Thai person more better off than an average Singaporean or Chinese or Burmese? It depends on who you ask, if some rich guy in Burma is living the high life might have more freedoms than a lower class person living in Thailand.

Burma has major flaws, they practically outlawed universities to make the people less educated on purpose. The country is run by military cronies without opposition, yet how far is Thailand different. Yes Thailand is better in a sense. But how much better? Better being subjective again.

Ethnic cleansing should be irradicated and can be possible excuse for an invasion.

Many of my Thai elders said that the monks should never have been involved in the riots or demonstrations. But that is another arguement I have no idea to agree or not.

[Wisarut]

Censorship in Thailand has increased dramatically even to the point of bannning blogs and forums on the internet. 100% of the television stations have government influence. Newspaper writers fear repercussions writing articles that criticise the government. Rewind Thailand to about 20 years ago. How far off was Thailand 20 years ago compared to the current Burma of today. Thailand has come a long way, but you will still get dragged off to jail for criticing the monarchy. Freedom of speech, media Thailand still has a long way to go.

I afraid that it is NOT just the Authority who is goign to drag those who criticise the monarchy, you will get either TRASHED to LYNCHED by the inmates after they know the cause that put you into the prison cells. Furthermore, Layers would decline to handle a case involving with Lese Majeste ....

Many of my Thai elders said that the monks should never have been involved in the riots or demonstrations. But that is another arguement I have no idea to agree or not.

Probably, they still thnk thatr the M<onk should be Politcally Neutral ... NOT taking side at all .... even though they would like to allow those Monks to wire and make a speech criticising secular world.

[Wisarut]

For the case of getting dragged off to jail for criticing the monarchy, it is due to the Authority's mindsets whcih thought that such a criticism was a trace of CONSPIRACY to create Republican Regime in Thailand .... with the same violent birth as French Revolution or Russian Revolution ...

Even the first paragraphs of the book relating to National Security have give a derogatory reference toward French Revoltuoin as the fist step to put the country toward Chaos or evgen Communist regime. Advocating equal rights mean the first step toward Republcian regime of even communist regime!

Even today, Many of Members of Royal Family NEVER Forgive or Forget what Ajarn Pridi and People Party had done after the 1932 Revolution.

[Wisarut]

When are we going to be MATURE?
by Boonyakiat Cheewatragoongit
e-mail : bcheewatragoongit@yahoo.com
Matichon 7 Dec 2007

Did YOU notice that More and More Thai people have become immature? -> Nationwide Immaturity whcih I have found can be described as follows:


Immature Local Media: Less and Less Professional due to the fact that they are caring more about their own selfish interests than the public interests. They want to sell more News to the level of SHAMELESSNESS and Madness by deliberately taking the opinions of the one whom they have intereviewed to ask the public figures who are the rivals of the other public figure as the way to instigate the belligerent between 2 public figures.

This kind of action is just like those immiature kids who want to play fire by instigating the conflicts between 2 adults to fight ... It is just a matter of thim thsoe kids will get burnt alive.

Anotehr example of immature media is the askign BMA about the Money to finance flood control plan after recived the news from Mr. Smith Thammasaroj the upcomign flood in BKK.

This is the plan to protect BKK from flooding, NOT political campaigns that applied populist Politics ... Get serious about this - ! Are you goign to instigate the belligere3nts for your own selfish gains which violating His Majesty's wish for Peace? Definitely You ARE!


Politicians: Frightening Immature .... Plagiarize the politicies, Political Campaigns just like the Flunk in Primary school who copy homeworks from diligent peers and they they tried to modified the palgirized homeworks to FOOL teachers -> Burmese Ruby is the Best (Original) -> Burmese Ruby is the Best, very sweet and crispy! (Plagirized)

This ONLY make theri peers LOLs ...

If if Plagirizing the policies and political campaigns were not Bad enough, they have polirizerd the whole society by takign sides, creatign fractions, ... boasting in the way to not much different from bully kids ... Onbly Saddning His Majesty and other who worry abotu the future.

Immature Intellectual -> Firghteningly Sliding Downward ... by becoming apparatachiks for those power that be ... either takign side with CNS or PPP.
They just want to reap the benefits for themselves even though it will inflict mroe and more sufferings to those poor bumpkins and other people.

There are Too few professional intellegtuals, the rest are commedians who become apparatichiks and keeping themselves in public limelight by making monthly and quaterly opinions durign the interviews.

Goverment: The most immature of all ... due to the lack of Managament skills ... using Porvisional Government as a good execute. Any ADamages belogn to the old government ... The thing they CANNOt do will be thrown away to the Next government. They also afraid of issuing more Lottos due to the moral questionalble nature.

The weakest points for Our Thai people are the following mindsets

1) thiking that the State medding on the affairs of Merchants and Pirvate Sections is a CRIME due to the COnflicts of Interests. [E.G. Promoting NGV to boost more sell of Natural Gas for PTT]

2) thikinging that running the business to please private sectos as the "Mean Capitalism".

The New governemtn after Deceme3br 23 election will be OUT of TOUCh with the Private Sectors for sure sicne they don;t want to associates with them to avoid conflicts of interests despite of the fact that the adminsitation is just like runnign the business, but at Nationwide scale.

Enrich Business and Private Sectors mean More Prosperity due to the boost of purchasing Power whcih keep the coutnry strong. ANy thoghts that go AGAINST this principle mean they country will be immature.

Other members of Thai Societies: Students, celebrities, artists are also totally immature, keep doning shameful things to please their egos such as fighting in public for their boyfriends and girlfiends, becomign juvenile deliquences to commity crime of throwning stone on the cars and robs the dirvers and passengers -> becoem full brown felons.

Increasingly our society REFUSE to think by themselves.... asking thsoe charisima persons to recomment Bitchs and SOBs as good citizens instad of juding by themselves ... and people belive in Charisma persons ... going AGINSAT the Buddist Pinciple of Thinking by themselves.

These are my thoughts of Thai society whcih become rotten by Immaturities in 2005 - 2007 ... to be record for my children and grand children.

[mdechgan]

I
Probably, they still thnk thatr the M<onk should be Politcally Neutral ... NOT taking side at all .... even though they would like to allow those Monks to wire and make a speech criticising secular world.

Having been living, growing, and being educated in the western world I tend to favor the separation of church and state.
However using western idealism in Asia is one of the worst mistakes one can make.

Religion can unify people while at the same time separate them. One can unify a country under Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. but the minorities will be is grave trouble possibly towrads lynching. Just the past ten years look what has happened Kashmir, East Timor, even the southern provinces of Thailand.

Just look at Thailand's past elections. If one monk supports a democrat party candidate and another supports a PPP candidate what is a Buddhist supposed to do? Vote for an opposing candidate and risk losit merits and go to hell?

[Wisarut]

Having been living, growing, and being educated in the western world I tend to favor the separation of church and state.
However using western idealism in Asia is one of the worst mistakes one can make.

Religion can unify people while at the same time separate them. One can unify a country under Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, etc. but the minorities will be is grave trouble possibly towrads lynching. Just the past ten years look what has happened Kashmir, East Timor, even the southern provinces of Thailand.

Just look at Thailand's past elections. If one monk supports a democrat party candidate and another supports a PPP candidate what is a Buddhist supposed to do? Vote for an opposing candidate and risk losit merits and go to hell?

The problem is that Politicians have used monks as the manipulators of public opinion during election campaigns....

WOrse still is that many of thsoe bald head in saffron are power hungry wolves who had commit many CRIMEs whcih can be disrobes at ANY second - sleeps with women/girls, sodomized boys, murdering the rivals, using smear campaigns against the one they hate, lying the public about theri miracles, stealing monastery treasures to feed theri wifes, concubines, theri children or even boyfriends ...

Those kinds of thuggish monks would like to ask for State Religion status to shild them from public scrutinies ...

[Wisarut]

How long can we endure the scorndrels like Ai Samak?

http://www.oknation.net/blog/yong/2007/12/06/entry-1

[mdechgan]

I still can't believe the people still allow this double standard loud mouth to still be in politics.
Everyone knows he is just kissing up to the Thaksin supporters and his old regime.

Oh I can't imagine what would happen if he became PM of Thailand.
But I would bet on another coup or the junta stays in power calling the election invalid for some reason.
Oh please don't let this loud fat one embarass Thailand in world politics.
Thai demmocracy has come a long way and don't let one crook ruin it for all the Thai people that have fought with blood and tears for freedom and respectabilty.

[GWR]

Apparently one Mor Doo has already predicted that Samak will be the next PM, but that as a result there will be 'blood' in April:

PM: doesn't believe in astrologer’s prediction

(BangkokPost.com) - Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said he personally does not believe astrologers' prediction that there will be chaos after Dec 23 election.

Gen Surayud's statement came after several astrologers predicted on Thursday that unrest will occur after the election.

Gen Surayud said he sees things in a different light, explaining that the mistakes of yesterday are a lesson to fix things so tomorrow will be better.

He urged political parties to follow His Majesty the King's advice that they should think of the country before themselves.

"If we do good deeds today, there is no need to consult fortune-tellers," he said.


Link may expire:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=124293

[doseiai]

This topic is evolving so I have a few thoughts:

1. Burma. I don't really imagine Burma and Thailand having any war, but I can imagine Burma breaking up. A good swap would be to let Pattani go and take in Shan. :-) Thailand can't be compared to Burma, where they have forced labor without food until death. Besides...2bangkok isn't censored...that in itself means a lot.

2. Democracy. Democracy to me is a false sense of security, its a Western buzzword. Democracies are only as good as the people running them. I think some countries can be run well without them, and some with them aren't run well. When the Belarus president was elected, and Cheney criticised it, Russia for example, ridiculed the US because the popular vote does not directly choose the president, and in Belarus it does. Beyond that, the Bush administration has played tricks just as dirty or dirtier than anything I've seen in Thailand, despite the US being a "mature" democracy. Only difference is, outwardly, we try to maintain an image that we are "under control" and transitions are "smooth".

3. I didn't really know how politically involved monks are in Thailand. Thanks for enlightening me.

4. Next PM. This is probably the hardest thing. It's hard to choose when the choices are bad or worse. But Thailand needs to move on, and bad is better than worse. Corruption happens, its not unique to Thailand or poor nations. It can't be eradicated, every nation has it, even the nations everyone looks up to. I think a fundamental problem is how people view corruption. No doubt China is corrupt as hell, but their economy and living standards are racing forward. Corruption must be seen as a unwanted byproduct or an added cost, but not a reason to avoid pursuit of goals.

[Wisarut]

This topic is evolving so I have a few thoughts:

1. Burma. I don't really imagine Burma and Thailand having any war, but I can imagine Burma breaking up. A good swap would be to let Pattani go and take in Shan. :-) Thailand can't be compared to Burma, where they have forced labor without food until death. Besides...2bangkok isn't censored...that in itself means a lot.

Probabily, it will be in the case of PArtition of Shan State - Western side still belogns to Burma whiel the Eastern side (Eastern bank of Salawin) will belogn to Thailand. Thsi will compelll Thai government to speed up Denchai - Chaing rai Railway project ... with a link to Kengtung to tighten the grip on Eastern shan State

Probably, Thai govenremtn will turn theri own male citizens from cradle to grave (7-70 years) to be Soilders/hard laborors to secure both Eastern Shan state and patani circle while tutrning female citizens from cradle to grave (7-70 years) to be blue ants/workign bees into factories/apddy fields ... eitehr workign as either volunteers or wokling at gun points .... and may lull thsoe illegal immigrants with Thai citizenships to work on such drugery jobs ...

[mdechgan]

This topic is evolving so I have a few thoughts:
1. Burma. I don't really imagine Burma and Thailand having any war, but I can imagine Burma breaking up. A good swap would be to let Pattani go and take in Shan. :-)


I don't think the Burmese government would let the Shan state just leave.
If Pattani goes so will Yala and Narathiwat. But where will they go to? Malaysia? Will Satun and Songklha secede also? Some say secession isn't the main reason for the insurgency. It might be a good idea to just let them go. The Thai government has already closed all the schools and the government buildings have all been blown up. Maybe there should be an election if they want to secede or not. I think if improvments don't happen soon it might be time for the Thai government to tell all Thai people and Buddhist to just pull out.


2. Democracy. Democracy to me is a false sense of security, its a Western buzzword. Democracies are only as good as the people running them.

Couldn't have said it any better.