Changi IA:OpensT3, TalksT4

[Ijud]

Business Times Singapore: 20th. December 2004

SINGAPORE - The world's third largest cruise operator, Malaysia's Star Cruises, said on Monday it will buy a 'a little over' 20 per cent stake in Valuair, allowing it to offer packages with the airline's flights to help it expand in the region.

Valuair is a low-cost airline based in Singapore.

Star Cruises will also become Valuair's largest shareholder, the companies said, confirming earlier rumours that Star Cruises would be investing in the budget carrier.

Valuair currently operates flights to Bangkok, Hong Kong, Jakarta and Perth from Singapore.

Star Cruises, which is quoted on Clob International in Singapore, is controlled by Resorts World. Resorts World is a subsidiary of sole Malaysian casino group Genting.

[sabaisabai]

This is just a broad call-out to anybody that knows what's happening with Singapore's third runway. I've been quite interested in the huge area of reclaimed land by Changi Airport, and was very surprised to notice that there's a full runway finished on the land. I'm surprised because there isn't any sign of airport development connecting it to the existing terminals, and also because the earth is still very sandy. The tracks are too sandy to cycle easily on, and I would have expected a runway to need a much more stable land.

Does anybody know what the plan is with this runway? I haven't come across any good web-sites about it.

[edit]
After some more research this interesting bit turned up (http://www.dsta.gov.sg/home/DisplayPage/ContentPage10.asp?id=829). That explains why there's little information about it, and perhaps why in-flight announcements state that photography over Singapore is prohibited:

"Meanwhile, the air force has started building a third runway at Changi international airport purely for military use. This will be situated on reclaimed land east of the two current civilian runways, but its planned completion date is not known. The new runway will be relatively short; sources told Jane's Defence Weekly that it should be capable of handling fighters but probably not transport aircraft."

[jpatokal]

S$2000 and a 3G phone if you can find the name for Changi's budget airline terminal:

http://www.changiairport.com.sg/changi/feature_external.jsp;jsessionid=Ck11k8jsJ5ft5FU2lp Cjlbmmvc3t28A2SHxxQdf01mDISTs9djOg!760671611!-1062718459!7005!8005?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374 302023755&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181058&bmUID=1118060415359

I'll wager on "Sardine Can Factory", but let's see what 2B can come up with. :p Open to Singaporeans and residents only, but I'll be happy to submit any good ideas...

[MISTER B]

How about Cheap Changi.At least they are not following Europe's model and calling some airport in Sumatra - Singapore

[jpatokal]

How about Cheap Changi.At least they are not following Europe's model and calling some airport in Sumatra - Singapore
You only think you're joking -- Air Asia actually called Johor Bahru's Senai (http://www.senaiairport.com) airport "Johor Bahru (Singapore)" until they got to rights to fly there from Thailand.

And as for pioneering Singaporean innovations, see this thread (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=354): Malaysia's planning to build a bigger LCC terminal at KLIA and have it ready before Singapore does, neener neener!

[mrtfreak]

You only think you're joking -- Air Asia actually called Johor Bahru's Senai (http://www.senaiairport.com) airport "Johor Bahru (Singapore)" until they got to rights to fly there from Thailand.

And as for pioneering Singaporean innovations, see this thread (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=354): Malaysia's planning to build a bigger LCC terminal at KLIA and have it ready before Singapore does, neener neener!
well, JB was the gateway to singapore i guess...

anyway, imagien thsi. theye even have this promotion stuff, they send us poly students emails to participate in naming the terminal. are they that deseprate? :eek: :D

[Ganyc]

It is not easy to name Changi's low-cost terminal. Besides, i wonder whether Singaporeans will be used to walking to the low-fare jet without any roof above them since it can be quite far from Terminal 1. I hope Tiger Airways, JetStar Asia and Thai AirAsia can re-time departures by then.

I personally like the terminal bus shuttle at Don Muang. This bus shuttle brings the passengers of Thai AirAsia from the B737 to the entrance of the arrival hall.

Don Muang is by far the best low-cost airline hub that I have observed but to remember that Suvarnabhumi is far away from Don Muang, it hurts me.

Changi can't beat Don Muang !

[jpatokal]

It is not easy to name Changi's low-cost terminal. Besides, i wonder whether Singaporeans will be used to walking to the low-fare jet without any roof above them since it can be quite far from Terminal 1.
LCC flights are point-to-point, you're not supposed to connect to other flights.

Me, I think the biggest flaw in the new terminal's design is that there is no MRT access... although given the orientation of the station, it just might be possible to dig up a new exit at the south end? :confused:

[mrtfreak]

LCC flights are point-to-point, you're not supposed to connect to other flights.

Me, I think the biggest flaw in the new terminal's design is that there is no MRT access... although given the orientation of the station, it just might be possible to dig up a new exit at the south end? :confused:
at extra cost? maybe a sky tarin link? ah, they'll be very bad at linking this terminal cause its "BUDGET". :mad:

[jpatokal]

at extra cost? maybe a sky tarin link? ah, they'll be very bad at linking this terminal cause its "BUDGET". :mad:
They're already rebuilding the whole Skytrain to accommodate T3, see
here (http://www.changi.airport.com.sg/changi/level3.jsp?ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181062&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302023762&bmUID=1118675747310) (scroll down to get to it). However, the new design is a loop, which is very rapid and user-friendly for connecting T1->T2->T3->T1... but doesn't allow adding in the budget terminal to the left of T2 very easily -- you'd have to add a spur line and confuse people.

[ignoramus]

They're already rebuilding the whole Skytrain to accommodate T3, see
here (http://www.changi.airport.com.sg/changi/level3.jsp?ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181062&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302023762&bmUID=1118675747310) (scroll down to get to it). However, the new design is a loop, which is very rapid and user-friendly for connecting T1->T2->T3->T1... but doesn't allow adding in the budget terminal to the left of T2 very easily -- you'd have to add a spur line and confuse people.

For your information, the new design is NOT a loop. It consists of two separate sections, the North & the South section. Trains on the North section cannot travel to the South section because there is no track connecting the two sections.

The reason why the two sections were not designed to form a loop is because tracks would therefore have to either go above or below the terminals. That would cost lots of money and the tracks would block the terminal building's front. By coming up with 2 separate sections, commuters would still be able to access any terminal from the terminal they are at using the skytrain directly, like from T2 they can go to T1 & T3 directly, albeit if they are at the southern end of T2 they would have to walk the entire length of the terminal to reach the North section to board the train to T1 because trains at the southern section only serve T2 & T3, and are for airside passengers only.

[Ganyc]

i can only comment that passengers will be late for low-fare flights once the low-cost terminal opens, because it's further away from the MRT than are T2 and T1 from the MRT. This will cause the revenue of Tiger Airways and Thai AirAsia to fall.

[jpatokal]

For your information, the new design is NOT a loop. It consists of two separate sections, the North & the South section. Trains on the North section cannot travel to the South section because there is no track connecting the two sections.
After quizzically peering at the diagram I linked to earlier, it appears that you are indeed right. Kinda funky... how about the train depots and such, are they also duplicated?

[Clayton]

i can only comment that passengers will be late for low-fare flights once the low-cost terminal opens, because it's further away from the MRT than are T2 and T1 from the MRT. This will cause the revenue of Tiger Airways and Thai AirAsia to fall.

Anyone who fails to make allowance for this deserves to miss their flight. As I've already stated in another thread, you cannot expect the same service and convenience when using LCC's & I expect that other airports may well follow Changi's suit. Passengers in this part of the world (myself included), have had a much more convenient time of it than say LCC passengers in Europe, where LCC flights more often than not land at some obscure airport way out of town (in some cases in other countries) - I'm sure most passengers would prefer the Changi option.


The alternative to a little extra journey & walking time is to pay more money for a full service fare, so personally, I don't think it will cause a dramatic fall in revenue of LCC's - only time will tell.

Your whole argument seems to be based around passengers connecting from say Air Asia to Singapore Airlines, you have also made similar comments in the future of Don Muang thread. You claim to work in the tourist industry, yet you seem to condone and perhaps promote this practice. Again I will state that this is a risky practice, for the foolhardy. :rolleyes:

[Ganyc]

Just to inform you that LCCs in Southeast Asia are beginning to offer some frills.

Thai AirAsia and AirAsia are now offering unofficial inflight magazines, all published by other non-flight companies for passengers to read or take them away because many passengers request to read inflight magazines of the LCCs. Valuair, Tiger Airways, JetStar Asia, Lion Air and Batavia Air also have official inflight magazines. Soon to follow is Adam Air.

Besides, full-service airlines in Asia are also cutting fares to compete with LCCs and they behave like LCCs too. Examples are Shenzhen Airlines and Garuda Indonesia. So, i do not see why LCCs cannot land in a same airport as full-service airlines. JetStar Asia and Qantas will begin code-sharing soon.

[Clayton]

Just to inform you that LCCs in Southeast Asia are beginning to offer some frills.

Thai AirAsia and AirAsia are now offering unofficial inflight magazines, all published by other non-flight companies for passengers to read or take them away because many passengers request to read inflight magazines of the LCCs. Valuair, Tiger Airways, JetStar Asia, Lion Air and Batavia Air also have official inflight magazines. Soon to follow is Adam Air.

Besides, full-service airlines in Asia are also cutting fares to compete with LCCs and they behave like LCCs too. Examples are Shenzhen Airlines and Garuda Indonesia. So, i do not see why LCCs cannot land in a same airport as full-service airlines. JetStar Asia and Qantas will begin code-sharing soon.

I principal, there is no reason why LCC's cannot land at the same airports, but this still doesn't mean that you should plan to transfer directly to, or more especially from a LCC flight to a full service flight. I've been delayed on LCC's far too often to contemplate this.

One of the reasons why LCC's tend to land at other airports are the landing fees are often much lower. I have read that some airlines are concerned over the increased landing fees at the NBIA opposed to those currently at Don Muang? I wonder if that will have an impact on where LCC's chose to land?

[Ganyc]

I flew to Don Muang with Thai AirAsia, paid for a FSC ticket and flew to Lampang with PB Air the FSC a few months ago. Thai AirAsia has no flight delay. It shows it is possible for flight transfer from a LCC to a FSC at a same airport. Qantas has an arrangement with LCC JetStar Asia-- flight transfer. Eg. Passenger flying from SYD to CAL (Kolkata) with QF can do flight transfer at SIN onto a 3K flight.

Who says LCCs must land in an obscure airport ? I had only have one working day off overseas and if i wanted to see both cities, i rather pay for flight transfer. In Asia, we have no time to waste. Since Europe has many holidays, well it is more sensible to waste time to land at an obscure airport to start your un-stressful vacation.

[jpatokal]

I flew to Don Muang with Thai AirAsia, paid for a FSC ticket and flew to Lampang with PB Air the FSC a few months ago. Thai AirAsia has no flight delay. It shows it is possible for flight transfer from a LCC to a FSC at a same airport.
So you didn't have the FSC ticket booked when you arrive in Don Muang? :confused: That's certainly possible, but you'll pay full price if you buy the ticket at the counter, and if the flight is full you will be wasting a lot of your precious time!

Who says LCCs must land in an obscure airport ? I had only have one working day off overseas and if i wanted to see both cities, i rather pay for flight transfer. In Asia, we have no time to waste. Since Europe has many holidays, well it is more sensible to waste time to land at an obscure airport to start your un-stressful vacation.
Cheap, fast and good -- pick any two.

[Clayton]

I flew to Don Muang with Thai AirAsia, paid for a FSC ticket and flew to Lampang with PB Air the FSC a few months ago. Thai AirAsia has no flight delay. It shows it is possible for flight transfer from a LCC to a FSC at a same airport. Qantas has an arrangement with LCC JetStar Asia-- flight transfer. Eg. Passenger flying from SYD to CAL (Kolkata) with QF can do flight transfer at SIN onto a 3K flight.

Who says LCCs must land in an obscure airport ? I had only have one working day off overseas and if i wanted to see both cities, i rather pay for flight transfer. In Asia, we have no time to waste. Since Europe has many holidays, well it is more sensible to waste time to land at an obscure airport to start your un-stressful vacation.

Of course it's possible - just risky in most cases. I have been delayed by Thai AirAsia often enough to know this. It's up to the individual to decide if it's worth the risk - I would never contemplate LCC to FSC longhaul.

There's no reason why LCC's MUST land at obscure airports, but again I will state that landing fees are often lower, not to mention that additional flights between major hubs may not receive government approval from the respective countries concerned. I accept people in Europe have many holidays, but I'm sure they'd much rather be able to fly between major airports, but more often than not - it's not possible.

[jpatokal]

And the $2000 name of Changi's new budget terminal is... drumroll, please... Budget Terminal. :( Oh well, I suppose it beats "Funport" or "Seabreeze", which were some of the other suggestions...

The terminal building is now complete and should be ready to open on March 26, which, by remarkable coincidence, is just a few weeks before KLIA's budget terminal opens.

Article here: http://www.todayonline.com/articles/94278.asp

[ncr]

The terminal building is now complete and should be ready to open on March 26, which, by remarkable coincidence, is just a few weeks before KLIA's budget terminal opens.And, let us not forget, many many months before Suvarnabhumi phase 1 opens..... (just to rub some salt into the wounds; "Regional Hub" competition and all). :p

Apart from that, did anyone really expect an exciting or unconventional name to be chosen (or even suggested in the first place) in this process? (Remember, this is Singapore after all.) :D

[Wisarut]

That Budget terminal at Changi has mispelled many Thai words that make Thai workers LOL :p ;) :D

[jpatokal]

Here's a thread full of pictures:

http://skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=6942815&postcount=330

Not quite as ugly as I'd feared from the original renderings, but I don't think it will win any awards either.

[Ganyc]

Last week, I passed by the entrance to the Budget Terminal along the expressway to Changi Airport. The Budget Terminal is quite far. No public bus service has indicated willingness to operate to the Budget Terminal. Changi Airport staff, however, says there will be a shuttle bus service from the Terminal 2 public bus stop for Bus 36, that will connect to Tiger Airways' flights. Do you think this will be successful, given that costs of travel to Changi Airport to catch flights that depart between 5 am and 7 am (by taxi) are higher than the MRT and public bus rides in Singapore Dollars ?

[jpatokal]

As usual you're not making any sense. The shuttle buses from T2 to the Budget Terminal will be free, so there is no extra cost for getting there, just a bit of extra hassle.

(And I'm still wondering what "nosey-parkey" means...)

[Ganyc]

Come on, jpatokal ! I am talking about whether the Budget Terminal will achieve sustainable growth when it opens. Tiger Airways' flight schedules to such destinations like Padang and Phuket are too early and Tiger Airways has not re-timed the schedules. Thus, passengers may end up paying more on travel than previously desired, because MRT's first service to Changi Airport is around 5.30 am. So, passengers going to Phuket and Padang may not be able to catch the flights unless they are willing to waste S$30 over on mid-night one-way taxi fares or forfeit their payment to Tiger Airways.

Of course, hassles are there but I doubt many Singaporeans will want to go to that length. JetStar Asia and Thai AirAsia have these impressions on Singaporean budget travellers. That is why they are adopting "wait-and-see" attitude at Tiger Airways' move.

I would suggest Budget Terminal opened its gates later like Hang Nadim Airport of Batam centre.

And there is unconfirmed news that AirAsia's financial strength is weakening now.

[Clayton]

Come on, jpatokal ! I am talking about whether the Budget Terminal will achieve sustainable growth when it opens. Tiger Airways' flight schedules to such destinations like Padang and Phuket are too early and Tiger Airways has not re-timed the schedules. Thus, passengers may end up paying more on travel than previously desired, because MRT's first service to Changi Airport is around 5.30 am. So, passengers going to Phuket and Padang may not be able to catch the flights unless they are willing to waste S$30 over on mid-night one-way taxi fares or forfeit their payment to Tiger Airways.

Of course, hassles are there but I doubt many Singaporeans will want to go to that length. JetStar Asia and Thai AirAsia have these impressions on Singaporean budget travellers. That is why they are adopting "wait-and-see" attitude at Tiger Airways' move.

I would suggest Budget Terminal opened its gates later like Hang Nadim Airport of Batam centre.

And there is unconfirmed news that AirAsia's financial strength is weakening now.

You could always pay for a full service carrier!:p

[jpatokal]

I am talking about whether the Budget Terminal will achieve sustainable growth when it opens. Tiger Airways' flight schedules to such destinations like Padang and Phuket are too early and Tiger Airways has not re-timed the schedules.
This is Tiger's problem, not the Budget Terminal's.

[mrtfreak]

What's the difference of Tiger Airways having the flights at the same time but at the main air terminal? The MRT still operates at the same hour and it wouldn't make a difference, air passengers would still need to fork out money for the taxi fare.

Moving the flight to the budget terminal may in fact cheapen the air ticket since they no longer need to pay the same amount of air taxes, etc that would have been borne onto the passengers if they used the main air terminal. Increments in taxi fare would be a few cents, not dollars and hence negligible.

So, I think this thread is pointless.

[jpatokal]

Actually, there was an interesting letter in the Straits Jacket yesterday, asking why Tiger (Budget Terminal) is charging higher taxes+fees than JetStar Asia (T1) for a trip to Bangkok in April...

[jpatokal]

One of the reasons Bangkok has been so successful as a hub is Thailand's very liberal policy of handing out flight rights. Singapore and Malaysia have lagged behind for a while, but now there are rumors that the two may finally sign an open skies treaty (http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BT/Wednesday/Frontpage/BT579738.txt/Article/). It's about time: it costs ~S$400 to fly Singapore-KL return (35 minutes, 185 mi), while Singapore-Bangkok (2:20, 894 mi) fares even on mainline carriers are regularly under S$300 and promos like Tiger's deal right now go for S$2/one-way + taxes.

As aptly stated in the article, the problem hinges on Malaysia's ailing flag carrier MAS, as opening up the cozy SIN-KUL duopoly would hit their bottom line hard. SQ would also be affected, but is in a much stronger position to deal with the damage. Everybody else -- especially Air Asia and Tiger -- would benefit.

[jpatokal]

FYI, here's a trip report I wrote a while back about the Budget Terminal:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568664

All in all, it's quite OK and (importantly for Singapore's government :cool: ) better set up than the one in KL.

As for success or lack thereof, Tiger is happy, Cebu Pacific is starting flights on Aug 31st and the rumor mill says Air India Express is next in line, so they're not doing too badly.

[jpatokal]

Can't stand to rub shoulders with the unwashed hoi polloi when waiting for your flight? Have a few spare thousand dollars lying around? JetQuay is waiting for you:

http://jetquay.com.sg/

Memberships start at a mere S$2000. This, too, seems to be an increasing trend: Lufthansa opened a terminal for first-class pax only in Frankfurt last year.

Note that this is separate from the normal VIP terminal, which still exists, but is reserved for state guests and the type of seriously loaded passengers who have their own jets.

Update: Here (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/02/business/luxury.php)'s a good IHT article on the topic.

[jpatokal]

I had an hour to kill at the airport recently, so I decided to pay the upcoming Terminal 3 (http://www.changiairport.com/t3/) (officially opening Jan 9, 2008, but already running limited flights) a visit. For the past few weeks and until Dec. 9th, they've been running an Open House (http://www.changiairport.com/t3/openhouse/), with free entry and the Skytrains to both existing terminals running, making visits a snap.

And the terminal is, in a word, stunning. :eek: I'll let the pictures do the talking:

http://jpatokal.iki.fi/photo/travel/Singapore/Changi-T3

There are many more on Skyscrapercity:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15487996&postcount=499
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15488011&postcount=500
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15488022&postcount=501

Don't just look at the thumbnails, open 'em up! It's the first airport I've seen that manages to be simultaneously look super-modern and pleasant, with tons of greenery around. KLIA tried the same thing with their "airport in a jungle" thing, but there all the plants are safely encased in glass boxes; at T3, they're integrated into the building and you're got waterfalls in the baggage claim area and whatnot. The bizarre-looking roof tile system is amazing and the entry gate for Departures wouldn't look out of place in a science-fiction movie.

Integration to transport and existing terminals is also excellent: it's directly connected to the Changi Airport MRT station, and there are two separate Skytrain lines connecting directly to T1 and T2. (They weren't signposted though, and I took the wrong one back! I'm pretty sure this will be fixed soon enough...) I didn't venture beyond the Departures checkpoint (you're allowed to if you fork out S$1), but you could see inside from the public areas. The main complaint so far seems to be that views of the tarmac are largely obscured by some elements of the structure.

While I gather that T3 was originally supposed to be exclusively for Singapore Airlines, for some unfathomable reason SQ has decided to split operations between T3 and T2, with most longer-distance flights using T3 and most shorter-distance flights using T2. The split is pretty messy though: eg. flights to Thailand use T2, except those services continuing to Japan, which use T3. China Eastern, Jet, Qatar and United will also move to T3 once it opens -- and this, too, means that Star Alliance airlines will now be scattered across all three terminals.

[GWR]

Thursday, January 10, 2008

Singapore Opens New Airport Terminal

Singapore opened Wednesday a new state-of-the-art airport terminal, with features including an indoor garden and waterfalls, in a bid to strengthen the city-state's status as a regional air hub. Changi Airport Terminal 3, built at a cost of 1.75 billion Singapore dollars (US $1.22 billion), will expand the airport's annual capacity by 22 million to 70 million passengers a year. Terminal 3 started operations with its first arrival from San Francisco and first departure to London, both on Singapore Airlines. Arriving passengers were greeted with a traditional lion dance performance and adorned with orchid garlands.

The seven-story terminal has 28 aerobridge gates—eight of which are designed to handle a new generation of large, double-decker passenger jets like the Airbus A380. A vertical garden of climbing plants and four waterfalls spans 300 meters (984 feet) inside the main building, which also features a roof with over 900 skylights and reflector panels that automatically allow an optimum amount of natural light while keeping out the tropical heat. As a regional air transportation hub, Singapore's Changi Airport faces competition from neighbors such as Thailand and Malaysia. (AP)
http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?cat_id=1#100108_1

[GWR]

July 25, 2008 18:43 PM
Singapore Plans To Build Fourth Terminal At Changi

SINGAPORE, July 25 (Bernama) - Singapore is planning to build a fourth terminal at the Changi Airport which currently has a capacity of about 70 million passengers per year.

Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore had already started to prepare the master plan for the fourth terminal which would provide capacity for future growth beyond Changis current capacity.

Speaking at the official opening of Terminal 3 at Changi Airport here, Lee said the fourth terminal would not be needed for many more years but forward planning would ensure that Changi keeps its leadership position far into the future.

Terminal 3 which now caters more than 900 weekly scheduled flights has already handled more than five million passengers since it began operation on January 9 this year.

With the addition of Terminal 3, Changi Airports passenger movements for the first six months of 2008 continued to soar registering a 5.4 per cent year-on-year growth to hit 18.7 million passengers.

A total of 943,791 tonnes of airfreight were also processed in the same period representing a year-on-year growth of 3.6 per cent.

Looking ahead, Lee said Changi Airport faced new risks and challenges such as fuel price hike which was impacting the bottom line of every airline.

The Prime Minister said the uncertain economic climate had further pushed consumers to become more careful with their spending and trim back on travel.

In addition, Lee said competition among airports was growing more intense with many other airports, aspiring to be global and regional air hubs, building up their capabilities in order to attract more airlines and travellers.

Lee also announced that Singapore planned to corporatise Changi Airport and restructure the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore.

He said the Ministry of Transport had been working intensively with various stakeholders over the past year and would announce details of the corporatisation exercise soon.

As of this month, there are 79 airlines operating over 4,400 weekly scheduled flights at Changi Airport, connecting Singapore to 189 cities in 59 countries making it the sixth busiest airport in the world for international traffic.

-- BERNAMA
Non-specific link:
http://www.bernama.com.my/