View Full Version : RTAF:New fighters
This rather explains what the Crown Prince was doing in Sweden a few months back when he was the subject of a number of rumors. What better way to cement a deal!? It was certainly known he was there on aviation business:
Thai Air force to buy Swedish fighters
17/10/2007 -- 12:30 PM
Bangkok (VNA) - The Thai air force is expected to pick Sweden’s 12 Gripen multi-role fighters in a 34.4 billion baht (or 1 billion USD) plan to replace its ageing F-5E fighters, Thailand’s English-language daily Bangkok Post reported.
The procurement plan was given the nod from the Thai cabinet on October 16 .
It is the second major arms procurement approved by the cabinet recently. On September 25, it endorsed the Defence Ministry's 7.7 billion baht plan to buy 96 armoured personnel carriers (APCs) from the Ukraine and 15,000 TAR-21 assault rifles from Israel for the army, C-802 surface-to-surface missiles and launch systems for the navy from China, and new avionics for the six C-130H aircraft operated by the air force.
According to an air force source, the Sweden’s purchase of the first six jets will be made in two batches, first batch to arrive in 2011, when a first group of F-5Es is due to be decommissioned.
Earlier, Thailand planned to use a barter trade deal to buy Russian-made SU-30 MKM fighters. The Bangkok Post newspaper added that the Swedish deal was sweetened with the offer of two radar surveillance planes for free.- Enditem
http://www.vnanet.vn/Home/EN/tabid/119/itemid/218478/Default.aspx
Compare with The Nation report:
Cabinet approves purchase of new fleet of jet fighters
The Cabinet Tuesday approved in principle the proposal of the Air Force to buy a new fleet of multi-purpose jet fighters to replace its F5E fighters, Government Spokesman Chaiya Yimwilai said.
The F5E fleet would be decommissioned in two years so the Air Force asked the Cabinet to approve its plan to buy a new fleet under commitment of several budget years, Chaiya said, adding that the Air Force would later announce more details.
The Nation
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30052662
I have been told that the Swedish government will almost certainly prevent its aviation industry from selling jet fighters to a country in the grip of a military junta. That said, it is only a short step in time until the 'democratic' ;) election of December 23. After that event, such measures are likely to immediately vaporize:
Air Force chief defends purchase of Swedish jet fighters
Air Force commander Air Chief Marshal Chalit Phukphasuk on Wednesday outlined four key reasons to justify spending Bt34.4 billion to buy 12 Swedish-made jet fighters for deployment in two batches, the first of which will comprise six JAS-39/CD Gripens in 2009.
"Thailand has an urgent need to replace our ageing F-5 fighters, which will be decommissioned by 2009 and the new fighters will be deployed in Surat Thani to protect the skies over the South, the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman Sea," he said.
Chalit said the aircraft's capability was the primary reason to award the procurement contract as Gripen fighters could match the military might in neighbouring countries.
Second, the aircraft was suitable for coastal defence of the southern shores. Third, the Swedish supplier agreed to a technology transfer by releasing the source code data of the aircraft and weaponry that would enable the Air Force to further develop its aviation capability.
Lastly, the fighters were compatible with existing command and control systems.
The Air Force started to review various fighters in 2003, before picking the Gripens over US-made F-16s and Russian SU-30s.
But Chulalongkorn University's Associated Professor Panitan Wattanayagorn, said the procurement of the Swedish fighters marked a "major departure" form the Airforce's standard practice of reducing the diversification of their hardware. Thailand has traditionally purchase fighters from the United States and suggested the armed forces might be better off with buying more F-16.
Chalit said the time consuming process was the main reason why he ruled out the F-16s and that Gripen fighters were designed to counter Russian jets deployed in the region.
"Aircraft purchase is very complicated, sometimes a supplier cannot sell or refuse the weaponry needed, even if you have the money, and it is not wise to deploy aircraft similar to your neighbours," he said.
Negotiations for F-16s would take at least four years, making it impossible for deployment in time for decommissioned F-5 fighters, he added.
Included in the Gripen deal are free one-year training for pilots, two-year's worth of spare parts, two air-borne early warning aircraft (AWACs) and air-launched missiles.
The Swedish government has also granted scholarships to train Air Force mechanics.
The payments for the first batch of six fighters will be spread over five years and coast Bt19 billion. The first payment of Bt7.3 billion will be made next year and the remainder is to be paid in instalments at Bt1.7 billion per year.
The negotiations for deployment of the second batch of fighters worth Bt15.4 billion will commence after completing the delivery of the first batch.
By Panya Thiewsangwan
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/10/17/politics/politics_30052838.php
The poor Swedish plane was in beginning called "flying excavator" due to its horrible track record in staying airborne. (From Finnish major news source)
I am guessing, trusting that Swedes won't engage in bribing, that the government is so desperate to save what is left of Swedish airplane industry that they have made everything to get this deal. This is shown by the "we'll throw in two planes for free" and "we give you the source codes" parts of the negotations...:rolleyes:
They really need any planes to get sold, so selling to military junta ruled country is no biggie after that. ;) (Ok, to be completly honest, these deals are not done in a year so my best guess is that the negotations started before the coup and indeed they trust return to normalcy so they can convince themselves why they are making deal under military installed government...:)
BUT THAT makes me start thinking about bribes too hmm, who is pulling money inbetween. Ah, cynicism.
(But Thailand really needs new planes, but I just wish that the deals would be not tainted and really they would buy what is suitable for their conditions. The armored truck deal has already been pointed out to contain both suspisions of bribes AND buying of equipment that is not really "competitive" in terms of functionality)
Actually seems Thailandjumpedtheshark is on to something while uncovering the "real" costs of the planes.
gosatta
20-10-07, 06:22 AM
well the reputation of the plane is not realy correct, every military plane craches numerous of times when it is TESTED, the problem with the JAS palane is that we flew it before it was done and crached it in the central of stockholm in an air show. but if you go to statistics its as safe / good as other planes. .
but that realy dosnt have anything to doo why Thailand wants it, there are probably alot of good "buy back" deals in the background that we dont realy know about yet. and here in Sweden nothing is officialy done.
The poor Swedish plane was in beginning called "flying excavator" due to its horrible track record in staying airborne. (From Finnish major news source)
............
Actually seems Thailandjumpedtheshark is on to something while uncovering the "real" costs of the planes.
Well, here's a quote from the last mentioned:
http://thailandjumpedtheshark.blogspot.com/2007/10/reuters-thailand-will-buy-swedish-made.html
This is very interesting.
Do the math: It comes out roughly to $90 million plus change a plane.
$90 million is a lot of money for one fighter craft.
According to Wikipedia, one Gripen jet should be $45-50 million.
Defense-Aerospace.com's July 2006 report attempting to estimate the true cost of western fighters placed the JAS-39C Gripen at over $68.9 million per plane based on the offer to Poland, and estimated the plane's program cost (R&D amotized) at $78.7 million. To give the reader a quick idea of how that benchmarks, costs for the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet were estimated at $ 78.4/ 95.3 million, the Eurofighter at $ 100-120/ 120-145 million, and the F-35 Lightning II at $ 115 LRIP / 112.5 million. Read the full report here. The report also noted Saab's official response of $35-40 million per plane flyaway costs, however, and acknowledged the problems involved in calculating per-plane figures based on foreign orders due to other costs and terms
The Saab JAS 39 "Gripen" has been plagued by corruption scandals in Hungary and the Czech Republic and South Africa. Each of these countries has its own particular Gripengate.
Knowing the Thai military and its procurement process, somebody at the top is getting paid.
Of course, the worthless Thai media will take the military's word as gold and won't do an independent analysis on its own concerning the procurement process.
Also, here is a link in the Swedish press to the story:
Thailand's air force confirmed on Wednesday that the country is preparing to buy six Swedish Gripen fighter planes in a deal worth 3.7 billion kronor ($560 million). Air force chief Chalit Phukphasuk also told reporters that a decision would be made after December's general election on whether to buy a second batch of six Saab Gripens.
Notice the discrepancy in the price from the other stories. In the top story, it say $574 million dollars, and in the Swedish story it says $560 million.
The head of one of Sweden's human rights groups regarding the sale:
Ola Mattsson, secretary general of the Swedish Peace and Arbitration Society (Svenska Freds), was considerable less enthusiastic.
"It should be completely out of the question for Sweden to sell Gripen planes to Thailand. It's a military dictatorship," he told TT.
By the way, I just remembered something. Wasn't the Crown Prince, an Air Chief Marshal in the Thai Air force, in Sweden just a few months ago? It was rumored that he was doing some flight training.
Maybe he collects jet fighters just like he collects antique cars.
Update:
This story has become a John LeCarre novel, and I am the only one to have picked up on it.
After further investigating, it seems the company responsible for marketing and exporting Gripen jet fighter abroad is none other than BAE Systems, a British arms dealer, notorious for its corrupt business practices all over the world. BAE is at the heart of Gripengate.
Air Force defends Gripen jet deal
Published on October 21, 2007
The Royal Thai Air Force has defended its decision to buy 12 Swedish-made Gripen fighter jets worth about Bt34 billion, following criticism that the price tag was inflated and the timing inappropriate.
Group Captain Monthon Satnukorn, the Air Force's deputy spokesman, declined to comment on the timing after an article in a US publication suggested there should not be an arms transaction while Thailand still has an unelected government.
However, Monthon said the multibillion-baht deal, approved by the interim Cabinet on October 16, was transparent and there was no inflated price tag as speculated.
"It's untrue that the price [for all 12 jets] was only about Bt20 billion. We've seconded senior officials to visit the manufacturer in Sweden and have had a thorough price comparison on various models," he said.
An Air Force source also said US-based Lockheed Martin, a major defence contractor and arms-maker, had recently asked in a letter to the Foreign Ministry why the Air Force had decided to buy Swedish jets.
"The letter, a copy of which was forwarded to the Air Force, noted that Thailand and the US had long been close military allies. At present, Thailand is also designated as the US's non-Nato ally," said the source.
"As a result, the US firm was wondering why the Air Force had not considered buying US-made jets, even though it previously acquired F-16A/B and F-5E aircraft from the US."
The source said the Air Force had earlier approached the United States, Russia and Sweden to purchase the new squadron to replace its ageing F-16E jets, which will be retired over the next two years.
However, Lockheed Martin appeared to be uninterested and inflexible on the pricing of its F16C/D jets. Later on, the Air Force decided to buy the Swedish JAS-39 Gripen jets, which are considered sophisticated and good value for money.
"I guess the US private sector has asked for the reasons because we are a long-time buyer of US-made jets," said the source.
"However, we're not worried, even though the US government might step up pressure on the Swedish government not to sell the jets to Thailand during this juncture due to last year's coup.
"At this stage, we plan to sign only a memorandum of understanding with the Swedish maker, while a contract will be signed later after the country has a new elected government.
"On the allegedly inflated price tag, I guess it's a misunderstanding because there is the basic price plus a wide range of sophisticated options, such as weapon or radar systems. It's like buying a car such as a Fortuner, which has so many options."
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/10/21/headlines/headlines_30053226.php
Gripen fully compatible with Thai systems: Swedish ambassador
Sweden ensured Friday that its Gripen jet fighters were compatible with existing Thai air defense systems which are mostly based on the American design.
The 12 Swedish-made Gripen jets plus two Saab Erieye AEW - Airborne Early Warning - aircraft are also compatible with NATO air defense systems.
"Since the aircraft is NATO compatible, the Gripen can carry a great variety of different weapons from different countries including America which Thai air force already has," Swedish Ambassador Lennart Linner said in a press briefing.
The package will also offer antiship missiles which the Swedish also use, he added.
The Nation
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30053908
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