View Full Version : Tram Queries & Comments
I wonder whatever happen to the Bangkok Tram project which was proposed by ex governor Bichit during his term in office. Some questions come to mind:
Has this project passed the feasibility study stage and gone through a formal Environmental Impact Assessment?
What is the likelihood of this project being revived soon given the changing economic climate and the government is now committing itself (at least the political platform it stands anyway) to further development of mass transit systems in Bangkok over the next 6 years?
Also, are there any other alternative mass transit schemes proposed to service the growing Rama III area?
Wisarut
28-12-03, 12:27 PM
Khun pas,
It seem to me that the Rama III extension (from Tawandaeng
Beer Hall) will become the SOutehrn Ring part of the Blue line
if MRTA want to turn the Blue line into the Ring Line along
Ratchadaphisek (almost) ... The otehr section (Sathon Thanee -
Tawandaeng Beer Hall will become a part of Airport Link accordign to the 2023 masterplan ... the section whcih needs a giant cable bridge to link from Tawandaeng Beer Hall to Bang Na Intersection via Bang Krachao.
EVEN though BA want the Airport link to go along Onnut Road
so as to ehad into the Northern Terminal .... The Masterplan states explicitly that "Skytrain Link to the Airport must go along Bangna Trat Highway and go to the SOuthern terminal FirST before endign up at the Northern Terminal." The link from Sathon to Bangna will enable Skytrin link to make a direct link with CBD area .... but BMA just concern about the voters in the suburbs than those businessmen as well as those foreigners within CBD area .... who cannot vote .....
I am interested in the tramway project proposed for Ratanakosin Island. I wonder if it follows the original tramline for this area.
Here's some more details (translated from an article in Siam Rath magazine 1998)
The Ratanakosin Tram project was mooted back in the days when Chamlong Srimuang was the governor of Bangkok (not sure if Bhichit's proposed tram include any part of the route). The tram route cover some 3km of tracks with 9 stops, the stops are numbered as follow:
1st Stop - Sao Ching Cha (Giant Swing).. tram running along Bamrungmuang Rod pass many important places like Giant Swing, Bangkok City Hall, Wat Suthat - there is a 380m interval to the next stop
2nd Stop - Interior Ministry
the line continues to 3rd Stop, pass Ministry of Defence, Saphan Chang Rong See (over Khlong Lod), then Rachinee Rd, Wat Rachapradit, Wat Rachabopit and end at Saphan Hok before continue to the next stop - this section is 560m long.
3rd Stop - Sararom Palace - the line continues along Bamrungmuang Rd then Sanam Chai Rd pass the Land Dept then "Clock Tower" - 300m interval
4th Stop - Wat Pho - continues to Tai Wng Rd, Pisalsima Fort - 180m interval
5th Stop - Ta Tien, running along Maharaj Rd, pass the Royal Grand Palace
6th Stop - Ta Chang Pier - tram continue pass the palace & Silpakorn University to Tha Prajan Pier - this section is 190m long
8th Stop - Ta Phrajan Pier - pass Thammasat Uni, Wat mahathat - this section is approx 450m
9th Stop - Sanam Luang - pass Royal Institute of Silpakorn Uni - this section cover some 240-300m
7th Stop - Grand Palace - continue along Na Phra Lan Rd, Lak Muang Rd, pass Visetchaisri Gate, Wat Phra Srirattana sassadaram, Civil Court, Ministry of Defence, 320m interval between the last stop.
Then the tram run the full loop, back to 2nd stop and then the 1st stop where it terminates.
Overall there are many historically important places covered along this route, however it's more a scenic tram route than anything else. And although it's a good idea to reduce vehicle presence in this important historical area I am quite sceptical that many people will use the system..
To reduce car dependency I think its necessary to introduce traffic restrictions to this area (either that or build more underground carparks) with traffic calming measures, upgrading of footpath and build more bicycle lanes :)
The 1996 proposal for tram-like busses is here:
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/routes.shtml#1996
The Enforcer!
21-08-04, 12:37 PM
Hey Guys,
Recall the original project but are you saying it has been revived?
The Enforcer!
Wisarut
23-08-04, 01:35 PM
Khun Pas,
Have you been to Archetecute Library of Chulalongkorn U. yet?
If so, you should be able to locate the book about Bangkok TYram around Rattanakosin Island project .... IN DETAILS!
Thanks Khun Wisarut. I'll have to check it out :)
Can someone on the forum translate the subject from Thai to English,
I would like to know more on the photos . I realise it was posted on another forum but linked to this one.
tram1 :confused:
It seems that some clips are from an early period like about 1910 as they are same ones on my film of Bangkok Tramways :confused:
Wisarut comments on the tram film: "For the case of the capture from "Take a ride on a tram through Bangkok in the 1920s", I could see the Shop "Rattana Mala" whcih now has becoem "The Old Siam Plaza" ...
For the Circle and tram, it is definitely at Talad Noy Circle ... and the towered building in Talad Noy Circle Photo is UNMISTAKEBLY "Nai Loed Building."
For the case of Japanese film of BKK Tram, It was certainly made in 1940."
When I got this clip from the film archives a couple years ago they told me they thought it was from the 1920s... I will have to check this again. I also have a tram film from a Swedish documentary in the 1920s (or so I have been told) which I will post soon.
In some views in a film I have seen some of a depot, I thougt Bankolem it was. Still made the trammap, but is there somewhere a trackmap of any depot?
;)
Only ever seen photos of depots, but I believe a saw one on a large map in the Electric Authory when I saw the General Manager some years ago and managed to obtain copys of some photos but not the map. :)
todays photos are again from 1910 film and was filmed by Denmark Company
my film showing same scene came from Denmark film archives :confused:
Is the David Bowie lookalike the tram controller?:-
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/docu/pdvd_014.jpg
Tram photos from 1962
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/photos1962.shtml
Wisarut comments: Photo "1962tram2.jpg" is at Saphan Siaw (Now Pinklao Bridge had eliminated Saphan Siaw across the old City Moat)
Photo "1962tram3.jpg" is the tram that come from Saphan Dam, heading to Wat Liab
Photo "1962tram4.jpg" is probably the tram at Praram 1 Road ...
thats great as I lost the details of these tram photos.
I have more I will send with locations
Ric:cool:
On this commercial page, there are three tram shots of date unknown. Unfortunately, they are watermarked when you 'zoom'. On the other hand, you might want to secure yourself an eight dollar print:-
http://www.tunkshop.com/oldbangkok.html
Prints of Old Temple Murals too:-
http://www.tunkshop.com/thaimural.html
Wisarut
20-01-06, 04:12 PM
Khun GWR,
http://www.tunkshop.com/images/large/obk006_large.jpg -> That's the New Road in Talad Noy area, circa 1920's -> now kept in National Archieves
http://www.tunkshop.com/images/large/obk008_large.jpg // Bangkho Laem Tram Line in front of Wat Sam Jin, Odean Circle, circa 1893-1894 -> now kept in the National Archieves
http://www.tunkshop.com/images/large/obk010_large.jpg // Actually, Chaloemburi Intersection, Yaowaraj Road taken by Khun Rabin Boonnag in 1950 -> now kept in the National Archieves
How easy is it for a non-Thai citizen to gain access to the National Archives, Khun W?
Wisarut
20-01-06, 10:07 PM
Thpose farang just simply scan thsoe photo from the photo books published by either PM office or even National Archieves ... :p
Jesper_Denmark
31-01-06, 04:30 PM
Dear all
Maybe you can help me - I hope so.
I'm a Danish journalist and Project Manager living in Denmark but going on holiday to Thailand next week (and have previously lived in Bangkok).
I'm looking for some old, Danish trams! The oldest Danish-owned trams were actually running in Thailand - not in Copenhagen!
According to The Nation there is a tram on display at Thammasat University’s Rangsit campus. Does anyone know if it's the originally Danish owned one or a later? And/or does anyone have a picture of the tram on display, you could send to me? I would be most grateful.
Best regards and thanks in advance
Jesper Kiby Denborg
--
Here is the story from The Nation:
100 FIRSTS: All aboard the tram
Published on Nov 21, 2004
Those wishing to navigate their way around Bangkok by rail can choose between the Skytrain and the subway, but earlier generations had an alternative choice: the tram.
Trams started puttering about the capital late in the reign of King Rama V and kept on going until 1968. They first went into operation in 1887 as part of a transportation business set up by a British man, Captain Alfred John Loftus, and a Dane, Andre du Plesis de Richelieu. Horses pulled the track-bound coaches from Bangkholaem in today’s Sathorn district to the Royal Palace.
The two entrepreneurs sold their company to a group of Danish investors in 1892, and within two years the trams were running on the new electricity grid hooked up across the country in 1890 under the supervision of Chaophraya Surasakmontri.
In 1900, the Bangkok tram company merged with America’s Electricity Company Limited, and a new tram line was built linking north Bangkok with Samsen.
The US firm kept running the trams until its concession expired on December 31, 1949 and the operation was handed over to the Interior Ministry.
Trams still received widespread popularity until 1957, when Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat unveiled his grand plan to reform Thailand’s “backward” habits and develop it as a country of high standing in the eyes of the world.
Among his many schemes, Sarit suggested that the tram was unsuited to “modern Bangkok” and encouraged the city’s residents to use cars, taxi cabs and buses instead.
The last trams trundled off Bangkok’s streets on October 11, 1968 – and made their final voyages into a few select museums. Among the surviving relics is the one on display at Thammasat University’s Rangsit campus, where it still manages to draw curious looks from the young students.
NITHINAND YORSAENGRAT
Wisarut
31-01-06, 05:27 PM
Khun Jesper,
For the case of Tramat Thammasart Rangsit, it is just a tramlike
bus ... NOT a true tram with electrical wires and motors ....
I dont' even think that there will be the tram of that old plinted in BKK.
So far, I suspected that even the "1892" tram in Thai Railway Hall Of Fame in Chatuchak park has use the old controller of 1892 imported by belgian firm after the Danish managers of Siam Electricity Co.Ltd. had sold some stocks to Belgian firm in 1912.
I'm not so sure about the actual age of the tram at MEA Yannawa Office (Thanon Tok) .... Now so sure with the old dilapidated tram at Sawangkhaniwat Sanatarium in Bang Poo, Samut Prakarn either.
Some time ago on the web I showed a tram slide from early days with very large number on apron ( Front ) of tram. they where the Danish ones,
Jesper_Denmark
01-02-06, 07:51 AM
Dear Wisarut and tram1
Thank you very much for your replies.
Tram1 - the pictures you are talking about. Is it the ones from the Swedish or Danish documantary: http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/swedish.shtml ?? They have quite large numbers on the front...
I' afraid I can't find the trams you, Wisarut, mention anywhere on this website. Neither the one at MEA Yannawa Office (Thanon Tok) nor the one at Sawangkhaniwat Sanatarium in Bang Poo, Samut Prakarn. But maybe it's just me...?!
According to the book "Scandinavians in Siam" (edited by Niels Lumholdt, published by Scandinavian Society Siam in the newest edition Aug. 2000) the Danes were involved in the tram company (The Siam Electricity Company Ltd.) in 49 years until it was finally taken over by the Thai government in 1950. I can't 100% clearify this information on this website, but consider it true...?
The opening for service as an electrified tramway in May 1894 in Bangkok took place years before Copenhagen saw its first electrified tramway. It happened in Sept 19 1899 in Frederiksberg - a neighbouring municipality to Copenhagen City. Electrified trams started in Copenhagen City August 1 1901. Before that time an electrified tram with batteries (in stead of with overhead wire) started in Copenhagen City Spring 1897, but soon it caused a lot of complaints from the passengers because of acid smell.
There has been many writings and books in Denmark about the history of the Danish trams but to my knowledge noone has yet mentioned that the first Danish-owned tram wasn't driven in Copenhagen, but in Bangkok. That is the interesting aspect I would like to write about.
Once again thank you very much for your help. I appreciate it a lot!
Best regards,
Jesper Kiby Denborg
PS! The article I quoted in my earlier post is found here: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/page.arcview.php?clid=26&id=109067&usrsess=
I' afraid I can't find the trams you, Wisarut, mention anywhere on this website. Neither the one at MEA Yannawa Office (Thanon Tok) nor the one at Sawangkhaniwat Sanatarium in Bang Poo, Samut Prakarn. But maybe it's just me...?!Well, the one at Thanon Tok is featured here (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/tram120/tram120.shtml). A real beauty, but inaccessible, though visible, behind a fence/wall (don't know how Ron got past the MEA office guards; I tried, but the guy just smiled and said no!)
I have never heard about that other one in Samut Prakan mentioned by Wisarut, either. But not to forget the poor old tram at the Ekkamai Museum (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/rust.shtml). And then there's one in Nonthaburi at Ministry of Public Health once mentioned on 2B (a link to a trip report with photos on the Thai Railfan forum). And two more here (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/photoscu.shtml). And the one in the Railway Hall of Fame.
Dear Jesper,
Maybe you know the story I've published in july and august 2005 in the dutch railfan magasin Op de Rails about the Bangkoktram? Now I'm preparing an english version with some "updates" about the tram history. Hope to find some additional info about this subject. I've just make some pictures off the poor old tram in Ekkamai, still in a situation to give him a new [/COLOR[COLOR="red"]]"Museum"-lstory, but action is need now!
http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=5629
TRAMWAY EXOTICA - NO 1 TRAMS OF VIETNAM & THAILAND
featuring Hanoi & Bangkok - February 2006
DVD Video DVD-R Video, PAL Format, 13.5cm x 19cm x 1.5cm Case 80 Minutes
Publisher: Online Video
Availability: In Stock
Price: £13.00
2Bangkok.com helped with that video... Some stills from it are here:
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/16mm.shtml
2Bangkok.com helped with that video... Some stills from it are here:
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/16mm.shtml
As humble as I am please do not forget my movie that was added to the great DVD
tram1
Wisarut
29-06-06, 12:14 AM
After reading the comment by Henrich about the tram and Saphan Charoenrat 31. If tram photo on September 8 and September 13 are at Saphan charoenrat 31, then the area must be in between Pakklong Talad and Satree Witthaya girl school (Sunantha Royal Serminary).
This is the comment being referred to:
Notes on the tram - June 22, 2006
Heinrich writes: While I was browsing today though your pages about Bangkok tram (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/index.shtml). I noticed the legend to the very first pic (Bangkok9.jpg?) on this page (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/photoscs.shtml). It reads: "Probably around Saphan dam area." I don't know, where Saphan Dam exactly is, but this photo is definitely at "Saphan Charoen Rat 31" over Khlong Lod, which is right next to Pak Khlong Talad.
I also found other pictures near that place on your "Daily Tram" pages (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/dailytram.shtml) - September 8, 2004 (Tram-05-mid-way-on-line.jpg?) and The daily tram - September 13, 2004 (Tram-06-crossing-bridge.jpg?) Compare the unique building on the corner behind the bridge. And compare the parapet with the pictures on my page (http://www.hdamm.de/bkkab/brck-a08.php).
Reading through my records, I noticed a report from 1930s that most of the system was to be made double track, but they discided not to do it cause some streets where two narrow for double track.
Also a model of a Bogie tram was built to show how the new trams where to look again without the double track the trams would be too long to use
The model was in the General Managers office ,DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT BECAME OF IT??
In 1959 a Rangoon newspaper ran a article on introducing trolleybuses to Bangkok and a Japenese firm was commissioned to look at it . ANYONE SEE THE ARTICLE ?
Ric
Ric Francis needs help in identifying the location in this photo taken in April 1963 ... it looks like it is Atsadang Road
http://www.2bangkok.com/07/BangkokTramApr63.JPG
Wisarut
09-04-07, 12:11 AM
If this is Asdang Road, it must be Samsen line just before it reach ban Moh area. Two-car tram is a testimony though
However, the statement of "April 1963" compelled me to think twice to make sure abotu this matter ... ;) :rolleyes:
Does anyone know of the location of the remaining trams around Bangkok?
I heard that there was some trams located at Pattaya.
Am looking for a single truck, for possible reconstructing a Penang tram for Georgetown if the Tram Project gets the go ahead . Better preserved than destroyed.
Ric
for starters:
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/photoscu.shtml
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/rust.shtml (Ekkamai Museum)
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/tram120/tram120.shtml (Thanon Tok)
...plus the one at the Railway Hall of Fame (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/trhf/index.shtml), of course.
Got your attention with bad spelling
The reply that went into syber space was
As a long standing forum member I have noted all these sites but are really interested in the three that was at Pattaya, I was told along time ago.
Also a Government official told me about a nother tram in Bangkok area owned by a lady
I need to tract down what is still around before Wally Higgins get together with the book I am preparing on Bangkok trams
Ric
Wisarut
19-06-07, 01:18 PM
Fro the casde of Prang photo taken on Feb 22, 1959, it is a Prang of Wat Liab ... even though it is possible a Prang (Stupa) of Wat Sam Pluem (Wat Chakkrawat) ...
The reason for Prang of Wat Liab is that it loos smaller than Prang of Wat Sam Pluem ....
http://www.2bangkok.com/07/wh/wh23.jpg
A reader asks: Can you please tell me the present location of Tram 120, as when we were last there 2 years ago we were unable to find it...
A reader asks: Recently I came across a query in the April edition of the Tramways & Urban Transit magazine. Someone asked if petrol-driven vehicles & trailers had ever worked on the Bangkok Tram system. Initially they had been ordered by the Siamese State Railways in 1922 but the writer wondered if they had ended up on the Bangkok Tram System. After I had contacted Ric Francis I maintained that Bangkok had never operated petrol driven trams & these vehicles would have probably gone to one or more of the minor railways in Thailand...
Anyone know about petrol-driven trams?
Tram 120 is the one at Thanon Tok (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/tram120/tram120.shtml), in the compound of MEA (Metropolitan Electricity Authority), behind a fence, but immediately adjacent to the street/sidewalk.
I don't think it's gone....? I was there myself 2 or 3 years ago.
And I think this information is not correct: "Tram at the Royal Theatre (no. 120)" (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/photoscu.shtml). Is there really a tram there? At least it's not no. 120. Or was it there before being moved to Th. Tok? (The plaque (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/tram120/tram120_03.jpg) says it was donated to MEA by a Mr. Suthin Tularak in BE 2532 (1989)). Which Royal Theatre, btw? Near the National Museum / Sanam Luang?
The Thanon Tok location is here (http://wikimapia.org/#y=13693524&x=100493081&z=18&l=0&m=a&v=2), opposite the driving range. (Follow Charoen Krung Rd down to Bang Kholaem, almost to the river.)
Tram 120 is the one at Thanon Tok (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/tram120/tram120.shtml), in the compound of MEA (Metropolitan Electricity Authority), behind a fence, but immediately adjacent to the street/sidewalk.
I don't think it's gone....? I was there myself 2 or 3 years ago.
And I think this information is not correct: "Tram at the Royal Theatre (no. 120)" (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/photoscu.shtml). Is there really a tram there? At least it's not no. 120. Or was it there before being moved to Th. Tok? (The plaque (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Tram/tram120/tram120_03.jpg) says it was donated to MEA by a Mr. Suthin Tularak in BE 2532 (1989)). Which Royal Theatre, btw? Near the National Museum / Sanam Luang?
Tram 120 was at Royal Theatre when I photoed it last time I was in Bangkok
The one at the Hospital is a rebuilt tram ( Later body ) have photo of that one.
Ric
Ric notes: Does anyone on the web in Bangkok know of the gentleman mentioned in letter at the Ekkamai Science centre, perhaps they can inform him of correct colour for the tram.
I am not sure where the tram ran in Bangkok or what colour it was ,or what number.
From a letter: However I had a most pleasant surprise at Ekkamai Science centre on 11/8. I arrived there expecting to see the tram in an even worse state than I had last seen it 2 years earlier. However, there it was with recently applied paint still gleaming on it. The underframe was black & the bodywork was in undercoat. The photos I took are still in my camera, but from memory the bodywork was a sort of reddish brown. There was also paint on the MRC loco. No. 2 & someone was working on the interior of the nearby railway passenger coach.
I then made the aquaintance of Mr. Somchai Panchawat, The Director of Academic Section, Science Centre for Education, 928 Sukhumvit Road, Bangkok 10110. He said that they had been given a grant of 60,000 Baht to assist in the upkeep of the 3 Rolling Stock items. At that date, he said that painting & renovation had been proceeding for one month. His one big query was what the original colour of the tram had been. Can you please assist in answering his query?
Wisarut
25-09-07, 10:19 AM
Khun Run ... better talk with thsoe staffs in rotfaithai doit com for this matter since Ekkamai Science Museum also has Meklong loco, Bogie Third class, C56 and Hanomag
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