Political History

[GWR]

http://www.colley.co.uk/garethjones/images/gareth2.jpg
Very taken with this website about the Welsh Newspaper Correspondent, Gareth Jones. It's a curious mixture of 'Late Empire' Brit outlook and the sort of radical fervor that had gotten South Wales by the short-&-curlies in the 20s & 30s. Gareth Jones was at one point, PM David Lloyd George's Secretary. In fairness, Jones was the first western correspondent to recognise that collectivisation had created famine in Soviet Russia. Jones was killed by bandits whilst he was reporting from China in 1935.

What can you say about a man who on visiting Hawaii decided that Barry Dock (urghh!) had a nicer beach? He also had some notions that Japan was not necessarily a huge threat to the West & its Far-Eastern colonies. That said, Jones seems to have had a talent for bringing news alive.

You'll have to scroll down to find the specific Thai content, but its all interesting in a rather quaint bygone era way:-

http://www.colley.co.uk/garethjones/articles_far_east/contents.htm

But here's one for starters. 'APRIL & MAY, 1935. Interview with Luang Pradit. Pridi Panomyong (Luang Pradit) was a law graduate who became leader of a group of idealists dissatisfied with the arrogance of the Royal Princes. In 1932 Pradit was involved in a coup d'etat to overthrow the Princes':-

http://www.colley.co.uk/garethjones/articles_far_east/luang_pradit.htm

Interview With Luang Pradit
(Pridi Panomyong)
Interviewed by Gareth Jones on May 6th 1935

Gareth had a long talk with the Luang Pradit who had been the chief revolutionary, but who was now in the Government on the causes of the revolution. He was a youngster and muddled in his ideas and he was terrified of “hurting the King’s feelings” as he said. It’s the funniest revolution Gareth had ever heard. He described him as a very young man, with black hair, going brushlike upwards, a round face like the moon and looked very boyish.

“There was a coup d'etat on 24th June 1932, but before this there was an absolute monarchy. The absolute monarchy had lead to favouritism and to abuse. It was considered that that an absolute monarchy was doing nothing for the development of the country at a time of economic depression. A little before the coup it was felt that the intellectual class were demanding reforms.

“The expectations of the absolute monarchy were very high. The advantages were if they had a good King as Chulalongkorn, then things went well, but the previous king was weak and relied on his valet and father-in-law.

“The state must help private enterprise, but we do not want to go further than co-operatives. I have made a progression of co-operatives and they accused me of being a Communist.

“After the coup d'etat on June 24th, 1932, the King signed a provisional constitution and in December 1932, he gave a definite constitution, and in March 1933, I presented to the council of state my economic plan. The partisans of the king with the Council of State profited by this occasion and accused me of being a Communist. I was the Minister with Portfolio. The King signed a decree dissolving the National Assembly and suspended the Constitution. The latter told the sortie that it was the King and Council of State, chosen by the old officials that governed the country, a step towards an anarchist regime of absolute power. I was exiled to Europe.

“A few months later on the 24th of June 1933, my friends made another coup d'etat reopening the National Assembly and applied the conditions and the King consented to them. The new government recalled me from Europe, but in October of the same year, there was a counter-revolution led by Prince Bovaradet, cousin of the King and his former tutor. Before fighting the counter-revolution movement, we asked the King to return to the capital. The King refused. (A few months before the King went to the seaside at Hualin) and he escaped by a small boat to the South of Siam and it was said he was going to Singapore. The father-in-law took part in the counter-revolution.

“After suppressing the revolt we sent delegate to ask the King to return to the capital. At first he refused, but on the insistence of the delegate he returned for a few days for the ceremonial celebration of the constitution. A few days later he went to Europe on the pretext of having his eyes seen to. He abdicated and Council of Regency was set up with Prince Ananta Mahidon being proclaimed King. People remain faithful to the monarchy, but only to the constitutional monarchy. Please do be careful. I do not want to hurt the King,” said Luang Pradit.
Liberty of the Press.

“We’ve established a censorship. If a paper publishes false news or any article susceptible of troubling, then we can apply censor. They must send articles to be censored for a period of time, say the week, the month. We cannot accord full liberty, because of the level of culture of the people.

[GWR]

Found the link to this on the Pakistan Airforce site of all places; whre it was billed as 'Thailand's Working Class History' in the 'People's History' database. Having long labored under the impression that there really was no such thing as a working class &/or working class history in Thailand, I felt compelled to check it out. Inevitably, it was penned by Ji Unghapakorn; a commentator of some renown on all left-field matters in Siam/Thailand:-

http://www.libcom.org/history/articles/thailand/

http://www.libcom.org/history/images/title.gif

[GWR]

Another list of PMs etc, except that this one has a 'head' shot of each:-

http://www.terra.es/personal2/monolith/thailand.htm

http://usuarios.lycos.es/alpheratz/plus/aphaiwong.jpghttp://usuarios.lycos.es/alpheratz/plus/suchinda.jpghttp://usuarios.lycos.es/alpheratz/plus/pibul.jpg

Indeed it has a whole host of world 'heads':-

http://www.terra.es/personal2/monolith/00index.htm

Such as the Uk's Harold Wilson; unfortunately without his 'signature' pipe (& slippers):-

http://usuarios.lycos.es/alpheratz/plus/wilson.jpg

[Stephen Cleary]

Giles Ji Ungpakorn of Chulalongkorn University and leader of the 1976 Fact Finding Mission has compiled a whole load of very insightful essays. Much of work concerns the 1976 bloodbath and the consequencies.

Reading through most of his articles, i was surprised by his frankness and startled at his words about Thailand's elitist system. I wonder whether Paul Handley been reading some of this guy's work?!

What he says must be within the law and order as he has never been 'censored' and he is often named in the English dailies as one of Thailand's top intellectuals.

Have a read:
http://www.pcpthai.org/Page5.htm

And :

http://www.2519.net/autopage/print.php?t=4&s_id=2&d_id=2&page=1

[Pkv]

It's been widely reported that Thailand's had a total of 18 coups. Somehow I've never been able to identify them all - so here's a listing composed right off the top of my head. Please complete the list.

1. The 1932 one.
2. Phraya Phahol's coup.
3. The coup against Luang Thamrong's government.
4. The "Palace" coup attempt.
5. The Manhattan Coup attempt.
6. Sarit's coup against Phibun.
7. Thanom's little coup against his own government(!)
8. Gen. Krit's coup against Thanom (Oct. 14)
9. The 1976 one.
10. The one that brought down Thanin.
11. The Young Turks coup.
12. The other coup against Prem.
13. Suchinda's coup against Chatichai.
14. The recent one.

Two questions:
The fall of Phibun's wartime Government - could you consider it a coup?

Phibun's return - did the military launch a coup against Khuang's interim government?

[Wisarut]

Fro the case of the Downfall fo the Leader in 1944, it is through the Parliamentary process ... He failed to get the Phetchabun Municiple Act of BE2487 and Phutthaburi Monthon Sanctuary Act pof BE 2487 APPROIVED by the parliament ... Even his friends voted AGAINST Him .... :eek:

The Yong Turk failed coup in 1981 and 1985 should bve recorded as "failed coup"

[The Enforcer!]

My database has 21 coups...

>COUPS
1. 24.06.32
Khana Ratsadorn (People's Party coup) -Successful against Absolute monarchy
2. 20.06.33
Khana Ratapraharn (Military coup) -Successful against Civilian government of Phya Manopakorn Nitithada
3. 11-27.10.33 -Kabot Boworadet -Failed against Military regime
4. 03.08.35
Kabot Naisib (sergeant attempted coup) -Failed against Military regime
5. 29.01.38
Kabot Praya Song Suradet (Song Suradet attempted coup) -Failed against Military regime
6. 08.11.47
"Grand Palace Coup" Khana Taharn Khong Chart (National Military Coup) -Successful against Military-Civilian government
7. 08.04.48
Khana Ratapraharn (Military Group coup) Successful against Civilian government
8. 01.10.48
Kabot Senathikarn (general Staff attempted coup) Failed against Military regime (Counter coup)
9. 26.02.49
Failed Military Group counter-coup against Military regime (Phibul)
10. 29.06.51
Kabot Manhattan (Manhattan attempted coup) -Failed against Military regime
11. 20.11.51
Khana Ratapraharn (Military Group coup) -Successful against National Assembly (Phibul's self-imposed coup)
12. 16.09.57
Khana Taharn (Military Group Coup) -Successful against Military regime
13. 20.10.58
Khana Patiwat (Revolutionary Group Coup) -Successful against Military regime
14. 17.11.71
Khana Patiwat (Revolutionary Group Coup) -Successful against National Assembly (Thanom's self-imposed coup)
15. 06.10.76
Khana Pati-roop Karn Pokb Krong Pan Din (National Administrative Reform Council) -Successful against Civilian government (Sanya Thammasak)
16. 26.03.77
Kabot Yee Sib Hok Meena (March 26th attempted coup) -Failed against -Civilian government
17. 20.10.77
Khana Patiwat (Revolutionary Council) -Successful against Civilian government (Thanin)
18. 01.04.81
Kabot Neung Mea-Sa (April 1, 1981 attempted coup) -Failed against Military regime
19. 09.09.85
Kabot Kao Ganya (September 9th attempted coup) - Failed against Military regime (Prem) (Counter coup)
20. 23.02.91
Khana Rak-Sa Kruam Sa-Ngob Reun Roi Hang Chart (National Peace Keeping Council) - Successful against Military-Civilian government
21. 19.09.06
Council of Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy - Successful against corrupt Civilian government

The Enforcer!

[Pkv]

Thank you for the quick replies.

You are again correct, Khun Wisarut - coup attempts they were. ;)

The Enforcer - that's a great list, as it includes ones I've never heard of before. This too is also the first time I've seen the Bovoradej Revolt branded as a coup attempt.

I take it that Sarit staged a coup first against Phibun ('57) and then Phot Sarasin ('58)?

Did Phraya Song actually staged a coup attempt (as opposed to planning one) though? I know that his clique did some intense lobbying for power during the period when Phraya Phahon was in power (they were constantly at odds with the junior faction), but I don't recall him actually mobilising any troops to overthrow the government - IIRC, he was merely arrested, stripped of his ranks, and forced into exile on charges of conspiring to overthrow the government. It's been a while since I've done any reading on the subject though, so I could be completely wrong.

[Wisarut]

Nope for the case fo the coup on October 20, 1958, it is going AGAINST Gen. Thanom Kittikajorn.

Oddly, Sarit DID put Gen. Thanom as his Deputy Prime Minister ... Therefore, it was a staged coup whcih Thanom had acknowledged before. This coup was to wipe those wayward MPs out of the parliament, includign Democrat party of Kuang Abhaiwognse ... and the Constitution Drafting Council had function as a rubber stamp for Sarit ... and later on for Thanom.


Nope, Col Phraya SOngsuradej was NOT stagign the coup at all. It was a political purge staged by Col. Plaek to frame and wipe out Co. Phraya Sognsuradej along with his disciples ... either going to live in exile ofr facign firing squards ... in the same way Stalin had purge Tratsky and Red Army generals at the same period.

[Pkv]

Nope, Col Phraya SOngsuradej was NOT stagign the coup at all. It was a political purge staged by Col. Plaek to frame and wipe out Co. Phraya Sognsuradej along with his disciples ... either going to live in exile ofr facign firing squards ... in the same way Stalin had purge Tratsky and Red Army generals at the same period.

That's exactly what I thought. So we can probably cross that one out of the list.

Nope for the case fo the coup on October 20, 1958, it is going AGAINST Gen. Thanom Kittikajorn.

Oddly, Sarit DID put Gen. Thanom as his Deputy Prime Minister ... Therefore, it was a staged coup whcih Thanom had acknowledged before. This coup was to wipe those wayward MPs out of the parliament, includign Democrat party of Kuang Abhaiwognse ... and the Constitution Drafting Council had function as a rubber stamp for Sarit ... and later on for Thanom.

Ah, I see. Now that explains why the description says "Successful against Military regime."

[Pkv]

Well, today marks the 30th Anniversary of the October 6 Massacre.

Wonder if the papers will commemorate the event.

[GWR]

It's worth noting that the instigators of this savagery can not even begin to face up to the fact that they made it happen. If anyone thinks that they demonstrate the need for constant 'strong man' tactics in Thai politics, we might want to reflect on the fact that their main legacy will almost certainly be crappy TV cooking programs and downright nasty provocative political gossip shows. Where's the manliness in that? And, indeed, where have YOU been lately?: -

OCTOBER 6, 1976
'Hard to remember, yet difficult to forget'

The bloody military crackdown on students 30 years ago remains 'a thorn in the side of Thai history'

On the morning of October 6, exactly 30 years ago today, pro-democracy students staged a protest against the return of a military junta leader who had been overthrown by people power. Many would die on that day, lynched by right-wing pro-monarchist forces.

This evening, a new generation of student activists will stage its first major anti-coup protest at the very same spot where dozens of their parents' generation were killed.

While there's an appearance of political history repeating itself at Thammasat University (TU)'s Tha Phrachan campus, historians doubt whether many people remember what happened there three decades ago, and - even if they do remember - what their memories tell them.

What really happened on October 6, 1976?

Today, memories of the incident remain problematic. Historian Charnvit Kasetsiri, who was then vice rector of Thammasat, points out that oral history can only be partially relied upon because of its inconsistency.

Charnvit has his own version of the incident: On October 6, 1976, students from schools and universities led people to protest against the return of Field Marshal Thanom Kitikhachorn, the military junta leader who was ordained as a novice monk and returned from exile in Singapore.

The military group then staged a coup d'etat, seizing power from a civilian government and launching a bloody assault on the student protesters at Thammasat University, who they accused of being communists, aliens and of defaming the Crown Prince.

Officials reported that 41 people died in the crackdown and 3,154 protesters were arrested.

Charnvit said, however, that much cross-checking about the incident has found that people's memories are fleeting.

"No Thai historians took the responsibility of working on it," he said. "History needs historians [to write it]."

Charnvit said that, as a historian, he has already done his job by writing "The Status of the 6th October 1976 in History". It was written 10 years ago, on the 20th anniversary of the incident.

"I won't do anything more [about the history of the October 6 massacre] because it is too painful [a task]," he said.

A lost history for the losers

Thai society lives with [mainstream] history written by the winners [of the incidents], so there is no space left for the history of the losers, Charnvit said.

Moreover, historian Thanet Apornsuwan believes any effort to make space for the October 6, 1976 incident in mainstream history may risk reducing the incident to a mere historical footnote. "Because it needs answers such as -who were the murderers? There were a lot of people from all social sectors who got involved in the massacres."

Thanet, who is director of the Southeast Asian studies programme at TU, said most mainstream history is created by later generations, after the key actors are dead.

"The difficult part about writing the history of October 6 is how the incident should be described. The history of October 6 alone cannot be categorised as anything but a massacre," he said.

Another historian, Thongchai Winichakul said those who engaged in the orgy of killing claimed to be doing it for the country. How, he asked, could such an act be of benefit to Thailand? What could the country gain, or stand to lose, and who was seen as the country's enemy?

There are many questions that Thai society has been avoiding for the past 30 years, he said.

Thongchai witnessed the brutal scenes at first hand. He is now a professor in the history department of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, but 30 years ago he was a student leader. He was arrested and detained for two years.

Ten years ago, at the 20th anniversary of the incident, Thongchai tried to create an opportunity for people of his generation to reconstruct the event. It didn't matter to him that many people considered it a history of losers.

This year, however, he has changed his mind, saying that if people cannot deal with it, the memories of October 6 should be left as a thorn in the side of Thai history.

"The power of the incident is not in making it a positive part of Thai history, its strength lies in its ability to raise questions. Why don't we simply leave it as a thorn in the side of history?" Thongchai asked.

An embarrassing past

If history is written by the winners, then why do members of the younger generation, like Phansat Jenraumjit, wonder who were the winners of October 6, 1976, and who the losers? And whydo neither winners nor losers want to recall that historical episode?

"Why don't [the winners] want to talk about it?" Phansat, who is a third-year student at TU's political science faculty, asks.

Many other questions have also lain without answers for three decades.

Thongchai offers this answer: "Because, for Thai society, the October 6 incident is murky and hard to swallow. It's a past that's hard to remember, yet difficult to forget."

Charnvit suggests that although the winners achieved their goal in seizing power, the repercussions went far beyond their anticipation. "The history of the Octobers, both 1973 and 1976, doesn't fit with conventional history that propagates harmony, stability and order," he said.

Although three decades have passed, the incident gets only a brief mention in history textbooks. The voices of the losers can still be heard on a website, <http://www.2519.net>, created by a group of people calling themselves the "Tula-tham Group". They say the website is a "museum of information" for younger generations.

"Time and history are always cruel. And they are consistent. Human beings are supposed to be kind. But they are inconsistent. Being far away and far removed is probably a better way of remembering this blank page of the past," said Thongchai, a "loser" who has been working on the history of the incident. He has been organising meetings and interviewing many people who were involved in the "embarrassing past".

A history of violence

The return of military rule on the night of September 19 led to protests staged by a new generation of pro-democracy student activists. They gathered together in the name of the Anti-19 September Coup Network. Their struggle is a lonely one.

While some point to the coup as bloodless, and many former student activists have accepted it as the only solution to the country's political ills, the new protesters say that, discounting the lack of graphic physical violence, the coup is no different from those of the past.

But Chaiwat Satha-anan, an exponent of non-violence, remains optimistic.

"One group of people feels that the coup is like [the Star Wars movie] "The Empire Strikes Back". I think Thai society has changed. Many sectors are trying their best not to allow violence to occur. When the state answers by not resorting to violence, it is playing a game that it did not dictate, but was determined by society.

"Three decades ago, we learnt that Thai society has its dark side. The fact that the October 6 incident took place tells us that people in our society can hate one another and badly harm each other. So we must not throw away the history of October 6. We must try to make it part of our social consciousness so it will never happen again."

Chaiwat Satha-anan will be a keynote speaker at Thammasat University's October memorial lawn at 9.15am today. He will speak on "Time and Violence", to commemorate October 6, 1976.

Subhatra Bhumiprabhas

The Nation


http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/10/06/politics/politics_30015512.php

[GWR]

http://www.19sep.org/

There were reports on 22/09 that this forum had been blocked. Seems to be operative now. I wonder if any concessions or grovellings were necessary?

[Wisarut]

http://www.2bangkok.com/06/oldnews01.jpg
This cartoon by Ngau Ngae (a cartoonist who used to worked at Siamrat before Ajarn prayoon Chanyawongse) is refering to the Article 17 of provisional Constitution of BE 2502 and the scandal aroudn the Asset of the Latee Field Marshall Sarit ... the dispute of the Inherit of Sarit's Asset betwen the late Khunying Vijitra Thanarat and the relative of Field marshall Sarit.

This happed in 1964 ... right after Sarit was in the Royal Urn ... just before the cremation at march 17, 1964.

[Jromerz]

2Bangkok front page of Thursday, December 14: "Red Tank Monument"

This refers to the killings over 30 years ago of suspected CPT members in military camps in Patthalung province, during the time of Thanom's government. Over 3000 people are reported to have died in this manner over the course of 4 years.

[Jromerz]

Here is a detailed report from a Bangkok Post special publication magazine "Oct 14, 1973 - People's Progress, 30 years on" dated 14 October 2003 which gives a history of the democracy movement since the 1970s until the present:

Excesses in paranoia
Just as the victims suffered, memories of the Red Drum massacres remain painful

Prapaiparn Rathamarit and Onnucha Hutasingh
Phatthalung


The Red Drum massacres of 30 years ago represent excesses in counter insurgency that no-one wants to revisit. But memories die hard and a healthy way of living with the horrors is to admit them.

About 3,008 people – accused of being communist suspects – are believed to have died after being pushed down 200-litre red drums alive or semi-conscious and incinerated. The atrocities began in military camps in a small village in Phatthalung about two years before the events of October 14, 1973, and continued through 1975, according to a former special branch police officer.

To put to rest the souls of the villagers, thousands of people from the southern provinces of Phatthalung, Surat Thani, Songkhla, Trang and Nakhon Si Thammarat converged for religious rites at a rubber plantation in Ban Kho Lung, in Phatthalung's Sri Nakarin sub-district on April 10 this year.

The plantation housed two companies of soldiers, one from the Senanarong barracks in Songkhla, and another from the Ingkayuth Boriharn barracks in Pattani.

"It was the policy of the Thanom Kittikachorn government to decisively flush out communist insurgents," said the former special branch police officer.

But the government never specified what "decisively" meant. While the soldiers at Ban Kho Lung resorted to pushing suspects down red drums before burning them, forces in Nakhon Si Thammarat killed entire households and left the bodies right there, he added.

"As subordinates, the officials merely followed orders. Mistakes were inevitable."

Police also played their part in the drastic suppression, killing suspects based on lists sent from intelligence units, he confirmed. They sent on some of the suspects to the military camps at Ban Kho Lung. But the officer emphasized he never witnessed any of the red drum executions.

The suppression waged by the police and the military drove thousands of villagers into the arms of the outlawed Communist Party of Thailand.

Fon Silamul, now a provincial councilor, was one of them, his operational patch the Phu Banthad mountain range. He remembers how fear convinced him to join the party after soldiers and police visited the homes of his relatives and took all the men for questioning at Ban Kho Lung camp.

When relatives went to visit the men at the camp two days later, they were told some had been released but others were now dead. Not one ever returned home.

Mr. Fon said he could not remember a single man – "old or young" – remaining at home in the villages of Ban Na, Lamsin, Khao Khram, Ban Tone, Ban Loh Kwai, Ban Lam Nai, Ban Na Wong, Ban Rai Nua and Ban Kongla after news began to spread of the people accused of helping the CPT being burnt alive.

"What can villagers like us do when we are sandwiched between the government officials and the CPT? If we refused to cooperate with either side we would be in great danger.

"Taking sides with the CPT seemed the best way to survive in the circumstances when the police and security officers could not provide us with protection and everything was in a real mess."

Mr. Fon remembers the hooligans and thieves from other areas who came to steal cattle most nights until there was not a single animal left in his village. The police feared for their own safety because they were outnumbered by these gangs. They refused to respond to calls to root out the thieves.

When people could not rely on government officials, they turned to members of the CPT united front who had settled in the area about "nine years earlier" (or in the early 1960s). These men and women promised to save them from the military atrocities and maintain law and order.

Things were made worse for many villagers as the lists of CPT members and hooligans prepared by the village headmen often contained the names of those with whom the headmen was in conflict. These people were arrested but none were executed before 1970. Most underwent "re-education".

The mass killings reportedly began in 1970, when rangers with the Special Task Forces in Lop Buri and troops from Ingkayuth Boriharn barracks were sent to crush the communist insurgents.

When Mr. Fon and other villagers living near the Ban Kho Lung camp were asked how they knew those arrested later became victims of the flaming red drums, they said they could hear the roar of military trucks – used to drown out the screams of those being burnt alive – throughout the evenings after communist suspects were taken to the camp. The villagers would smell human flesh burning and see the fumes rise into the night sky.

"At the same time, some arrested villagers from Surat Thani were thrown from helicopters over the Phu Banthad mountain range," Mr. Fon alleges.

Asked if they had proof of the mass killing, Mr. Fon and other villagers said they found human skulls and bones scattered along Klong Muay, adjacent to Ban Kho Lung camp, after it was closed in late 1975.

[Jromerz]

"Many children used the skulls to play football and we were told that ash and other remains were dumped in Lampham, a part of Thalae Luang in Phatthalung."

The people of Phatthalung did not know much about the Red Drum atrocities. All they knew was that soldiers were killing communists because they were at war with government troops.

He said that the figure of 3,008 people killed in Red Drum cases was compiled by a committee attached to the pro-democracy Student Federation of Thailand in 1975 who were went to visit the area to collect information on the victims. There are no known copies of this report available now.

The villagers said they bore no grudges against those who had brought such terror to their lives. They had no desire to take revenge against police and the military.

"Let bygones be bygones, and let us patch up our differences of ideology," Mr. Fon said. "I fully understand that the troops involved in the Red Drum case had to follow orders and the villagers thought they were fighting for their survival and for a better life. No-one was really at fault as it was very common to see losses on both sides when each side claimed to fight for a better ruling system."

For the former special branch police officer, the events of 30 years ago may be seen as a case of over-reaction by the state. But for state officials then, danger lurked in every corner, especially in Kong La district, which they could not penetrate, not even when the deaths started mounting.

The Red Drum massacres ended in 1975, two years after the fall of the Thanom regime, and when Thailand established diplomatic relations with China, the officer said.

Though memories of the evens at Ban Kho Lung are fading, most villagers who survived the horrors still refuse to talk about it.

Their only desire, they say, is to make merit in honour of those who perished in the red drums because "when those people were killed, they had no chance to see the monks for their last blessing".

"We want the Red Drum case to be a lesson and not forgotten by our next generation that their ancestors sacrificed their lives for today's democracy," one said.

A group of villagers has already bought a piece of land for 450,000 baht to build an information centre and monument to those killed, a plan that apparently has run into opposition from state authorities, the former special branch officer among them.

But how else to repose the ghosts of the Red Drum?

[GWR]

http://www.2bangkok.com

To put this thread in a bit more perspective, the previous posts were triggered by this on today's frontpage: -

Red Tank Monument - December 14, 2006
Mr. John reports on a historic poster (right) in a pub in the south:The poster says, "Who kill people? Meet Pattalung Resident and join to analyze. 'Spurn down the mountain, burn in the red tank' at Sanam Luang on February 14".

http://www.2bangkok.com/06/leaflet03.gif

This is a poster to persuade people to protest the dictatorial power especially the case of arresting suspected communists and throwing them out of helicopters over the mountains in Nakorn Srithammarat and Surat Thani. Moreover, people are arrested and put in a tank with 200 liters of oil and burnt. People died from that event and every April 10, there will have a memorial ceremony at the Red Tank Monument in Pattalung province.

Apparently this happening during the time of PM Seni Pramoj. Does anyone have more details about this?

[ncr]

The suppression waged by the police and the military drove thousands of villagers into the arms of the outlawed Communist Party of Thailand. [...]

"What can villagers like us do when we are sandwiched between the government officials and the CPT? IF we refused to cooperate with either side we would be in great danger.

"Taking sides with the CPT seemed the best was to survive in the circumstances when the police and security officers could not provide us with protection and everything was in a real mess."Strongly reminds of the current situation in the South... you just have to substitute "CPT" with "Muslim separatists" (or whatever they are). I guess many villagers in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat feel very much the same.

[ncr]

According to the Thai Wikipedia (http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%81%E0%B 8%B2%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%93%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A4% E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%A0%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8 %B4%E0%B8%AC), the Black May is not called "black", but พฤษภาทมิฬ (phruetsapha thamin) in Thai language - which led me to look up that adjective, thamin:

Longdo Dictionary (http://dict.longdo.com/?sourceid=Mozilla-search&search=%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%AC)
ทมิฬ (1) [N] Tamil
ทมิฬ (2) [ADJ] cruel, See also: savage; ruthless; vicious; fierce; wicked; heartless

Which begs the questions: how did the word for Tamil (ethnicity, language) acquire this other meaning? (Doesn't exactly seem like political correctness at work... :eek: )

[Wisarut]

This is due to the fact that we got the word "Tamil" via Singhalese Monks ... hundreds years ago ... and Singhalese had NOTHING good to say about Tamil people ... even though They had been ruled under Tamil Kings ... They had invited Tamil kings to rule the country sicne their Singahelse kigns married with Tamil princesses .... and there were lots of bloody feuds amongue Singhalese princes .... You know the rest of story, don't you? :eek:

[ncr]

Thanks for the answer, Khun Wisarut. Very interesting, from a cultural / socio-linguistic point of view.
.... You know the rest of story, don't you? :eek:Yeah, we have all heard about LTTE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTTE), etc......

[Mangoboy]

Is it possible that the words might just be a homograph/homophone? That is to say a word that is spelt and that sounds the same as another but which means something different.

For example rose = the flower, and rose = the past tense of rise. Or in Thai chan = the female personal pronoun and chan = the verb to eat used for a monk.

Maybe I'm being over optimistic, but it'd be nice to think that at not all contemporary pejorative or negative words come from a racial prejudice.

q.v. kaek, dutch courage, american share, putting english on your pool shot etc.

[Ibro]

Could you please tell me which post seized(in THAI-romanized)Phibun Songgram as the military dictator?

[Wisarut]

What do you mean? Please explain ...

[FarangBha]

he was variously PM and vice before during and after WW2, sided with the Japanese, but big conflicts with a certain big family, and arch rival of Pridi.

...correct me if I'm wrong.

[FarangBha]

Field Marshal Plaek Pibulsonggram (Thai แปลก พิบูลสงคราม or ป. พิบูลสงคราม, lastname sometimes spelled Phibunsongkhram, Phibul Songkhram or Pibul Songgram) (July 14, 1897–June 11, 1964) was Prime Minister and military dictator of Thailand from 1938 to 1944 and 1948 to 1957.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phibun_Songkhram

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/Plaek.jpg

[Ibro]

This is my a new question as an explanation to Mr.Wisarut:
Would you please tell me WHICH OFFICIAL TITLE(in THAI-romanized)Phibun Songgram took when he established an authoritarian regime in 1938?Did he govern the country from 1938 to 1944 as PRIME MINISTER,or as DICTATOR,or as CHAIRMAN OF SOME COUNCIL?Which official post did he have during that time?
I'm obliged to you.

[Pkv]

Prime Minister - Nayok Ratthamontri.

During the war years he was better known to the public as Than Phu Nam (The Leader, as per Il Duce, der Führer, Conducător, Poglavnik, etc.), although of course this was never an official title.

Note that he additionally held the interior, defence, and foreign minister portfolios at various times during his period in office, and was also Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces from 1940 to early 1941 and again from late 1941 to July 1944.

[Ibro]

Can you please tell me what posts(or titles) Field marshalls Sarit Dhanarajata and Thanom Kittikachorn,and General Sonthi Boonyaratglin took as dictators,and what these posts(titles) are in The THAI LANGUAGE(ROMANIZED)?
I'm very much obliged to you.

[Parinand]

Sarit and Thanom were both Leaders of the Revolutionary Council (Hua Na Khana Patiwat) and Prime Ministers (Nayok Ratthamontri) during their time as dictators.

Sarit was a key member in the Coup d'Etat Council (Khana Ratthaprahan), which overthrew a post-war Free Thai civilian government on November 8, 1947. This was the first successful attempt by the old regime to restore the role of monarchy in Thai political arena after the end of absolute monarchy in 1932. Having his power strengthened over a decade, Sarit staged his own coup in 1957 to overthrow Prime Minister Field Marshall P. Pibulsonggram, the last member of the 1932 promoters in power. He initially didn't assume the post of prime minister himself, but let General Thanom, his proxy, to assume the post for one year before Sarit took the post as a totalitarian prime minister in 1958. After the death of Sarit in 1965, Thanom took over the post of "Hua Na Khana Patiwat" and "Nayok Ratthamontri" before he was overthrown by the people in a mass uprising of October 14, 1973--the event that ended an era of totalitarian military dictatorship.

Gen. Sonthi was first the Leader of the Council for Democratic Reform (Hua Na Khana Patirup Karn Pokkhrong nai Rabob Prachathippatai an mi Phra Maha Kasat Song Pen Pramukh). After appointing an interim government under leadership of Prime Minister Surayud Chulanond, he took the title of Chairman of the Council of National Security (Prathan Khana Montri Khwam Mankhong haeng Chat).

By the way, the ranks of Field Marshall is called "Chom Phol" in Thai. The rank of General is called "Phol Ek". The granting of the rank of field marshall discontinued after the October 14, 1973 People's Revolution.

[Wisarut]

Now, ther is a publication of the book abotu the second era of Field Marshall Plaek -> Phaen ching Chart Thai -> the state and anti state movemnet during The Second era of Field Marshall Plaek Phibun Songgram (1948 - 1957)

http://www.chulabook.com/images/books/9789747216691.gif

This books is considred the most comprehensive historical record about the origin of the 8 Nov 1947 coup until the Final downfall of Field Marshall Plaek on 16 Sept 1957.

Furthermore, it is the reflection of Thai Politcal struggling along with the hidden truths such as

1. the Assasination of King Anadamahidol which lead to the execution of 3 royal pages,
2. the origin of Democrat Party as the royalists' politcal measures AGAINST People Party (Khanarat)
3. the otehr ad hoc parties by Army ,
4. the coup of 8 Nov 1947,
5. the accusation plan for republican regime,
6. Series of the failed Wang Luang coup, Manhattan failed coup by the young Navy men which caused the downfall of Royal Thai Navy as well as other failed coups,
7. Political mudslidings
8. Political assasinations
9. Socialist & Communist movements in Thailand
10. Press and labor Movement
11. the dirty election of 26 feb 1957
12. the series of insulting His Majesty including:
12.1 accusign of 700,000 Baht donation to Democrat Party,
12.2 the accusing His Majesty as the mastermind of King Anadamahidol's assasination,
12.3 Smear campaigns by Ai Phao Sriyanone against His Majesty after his Majesty refused to participated Year 2500 Buddhist anniversary) ....
12.4 Donation of 100,000 Baht to Sarit.

The series of insulting His Majesty had brought the final downfall of Field Marshall Plaek Phibun Songgram.