Old pictures & postcards etc.

[ncr]

Anyone know what that rather big colonial-style building behind (north of) the bridge was? (It doesn't exist anymore.)

(http://www.hdamm.de/reise/rtt1-31.php)

Apart from that, Heinrich's excellent virtual walk has some more old aerial photos:

*National Gallery, http://www.hdamm.de/reise/rtt2-01.php
*Democracy Monument, http://www.hdamm.de/reise/rtt2-06.php
*Golden Mount, http://www.hdamm.de/reise/rtt3-21.php
*and, maybe most interesting, Phan Fa Lilat Bridge seen from the northeast (Lan Luang/Nakhon Sawan Rd), with the Sala Chalerm Thai Theater in front of Wat Ratchanadda/Lohaprasat that was torn down in 1990 to make place for the little Rama III Park.

http://www.hdamm.de/reise/rtt3-20.php

By the way, the "John Sampson Shop House" (the one with the little tower) has recently been made into a museum depicting the interesting life of King Prajadhipok (Rama VII), Thailand's first constitutional monarch.

*also nice: photo from around 1903 showing the 'dense traffic' at Sanam Luang (Note the absence of the Mae Thorani Fountain which was erected here on the site of a former prison in 1905 according to Heinrich's information.)

http://www.hdamm.de/bkkab/brck-a01.php

[admin]

That's the old Public Relations Department building. At some point a new building was built to replace it, although I do not know the year. The new building was burned during the 1973 protests and then all the buildings on that corner were gutted during the protests in 1992. Then the intersection was reconfigured once again.

Just wait til you see the collection of photos we will soon post of that intersection over the years...

[hdamm]

According to the book "Bangkok now & then" by Steve Van Beek (which was a valuable source for some of my researches) this builing was at the turn of the last century the "Badman's Department Store". (I wonder if they sold anything - with that name? ;) )
In the 1920s there was a Legal College. On 3rd May 1933 it became the government's public relation office. The building was finally torn down and replaced by a new building for the public relation office. Later it was, like Ron said above, ...
... burned during the 1973 protests and then all the buildings on that corner were gutted during the protests in 1992. Then the intersection was reconfigured once again...

[ncr]

This (http://www.geh.org/ne/str105/htmlsrc3/m198412070011_ful.html#topofimage) seems to be King Mongkut (Rama IV) and family - though the estimated date is "ca. 1870s" and Mongkut died 1868, but it's definitely not King Chulalongkorn. Also compare this painting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongkut). Therefore, probably a very rare item, or when did photography first come to Siam?

What we can also see in the collection is "the brother of the King of Siam with a minion and two slaves" (http://www.geh.org/ne/str105/htmlsrc3/m198412070013_ful.html#topofimage) and more slaves (http://www.geh.org/ne/str105/htmlsrc3/m198412070014_ful.html#topofimage) at the feet of a minister's wife.

[Pas]

Thanks for the photos Nil. That's definitely King Mongkut ... though he has many more children?
I remember reading that King Chulalongkorn abolished slavery.

[ncr]

Pas,
They are not "my" photos, though; this link (http://www.geh.org/ne/str105/htmlsrc3/iagor_sum00001.html) was posted on the 2B main page on 19 April. I just wanted to make a comment on some of them.

[ttaaee]

This (http://www.geh.org/ne/str105/htmlsrc3/m198412070011_ful.html#topofimage) seems to be King Mongkut (Rama IV) and family...

It looks like a set of stereo images. Compare the bottom left corner of the window frame right behind the head of the royal child sitting in the back row next to King Mongkut in both images.

[ncr]

It looks like a set of stereo images. Compare the bottom left corner of the window frame right behind the head of the royal child sitting in the back row next to King Mongkut in both images.Good observation, Rapee! Yes, that seems possible. And I was wondering why the heck all those photos are double, and didn't get it..... So, maybe if you print it out and try to look at it with your left and right eye separated, you can see the scene in 3-D.

By the way, any chance you'll join one of the upcoming 2B metings?

[ttaaee]

So, maybe if you print it out and try to look at it with your left and right eye separated, you can see the scene in 3-D.

Khun NCR,

I think you might need a pair of these (http://www.berezin.com/3d/images/pentaxonprint.jpg) to get the 3d effect. But you can always try without using them. You might not want to expect a dramatic 3d effect like those from computer generated 3d images that look like they are popping out of the backgrounds.

Of course, I would love to come to one of the meetings if I can manage my super tight schedule. No, I'm no CEO. Never been too busy for a daily dose of 2bkk.com, though. ;)

[GWR]

http://www.siam-cigarettecard.com/

http://www.siam-cigarettecard.com/images/1109520899/Resize%20of%20DSCN6354.JPG

[ncr]

Oh yes, she was on the way to Thailand (as "American Star"), but never arrived.......

Found her on Google Maps (fortunately high-res coverage):

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.346039,-14.180399&spn=0.003427,0.005402&t=k&hl=en

Been to Lanzarote (the neighboring island to the north) and Fuerteventura in 1995 and passed through/stopped in Betancuria, Pajara and Tuineje (see the map (http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/dgriff/images/location.jpg)) on a bus tour, and I remember the guide mentioning the wreck (just one year old then), but of course we didn't get down to the beach.......

Quite a lot of information and a nice image gallery (at the bottom) in the German Wikipedia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_America).

[ncr]

Maybe it's worthwhile to add the following to highlight the remoteness of the wreck's location: Fuerteventura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuerteventura) (possibly from "fuerte aventura" = strong adventure), of volcanic origin like all the Canaries, is a real desert island with extensive dune fields, and the least densely populated part of Spain, if I am not mistaken.

The main town, Puerto de Cabras (which translates as "goat harbour", hinting at the populations traditional source of livelihood), was only recently (early 1980s?) renamed to the religiously inspired, but still somewhat more fashionable Puerto del Rosario (=rosary).

The west coast is especially rugged, with strong winds and currents and high cliffs. Nowadays a paradise for wind surfers, but not without dangers.

Around the 1920s to 1930s, the island served as a penal colony / place of forced exile for regime critics, similar to Ko Tarutao in Southern Thailand. Most famous prisoner: writer Miguel de Unamuno.

[ncr]

More SS America links:

http://www.flare.net/users/e9ee52a/S.S.%20America.htm
- with this (http://www.flare.net/users/e9ee52a/American38.1.jpg) great image of the ship breaking in two (1994). Not to mention this (http://www.flare.net/users/e9ee52a/RPD2.htm) and this (http://www.flare.net/users/e9ee52a/RPD3.htm).

http://www.ss-australis.com/
- with this (http://www.ss-australis.com/rolled.jpg) recent shot (early November 2005?, "the day after the port side collapsed"), showing that the end seems to be drawing near for the once proud wreck. (From here (http://www.ss-australis.com/enter.htm), then click "Australis Today".)

[ncr]

(From here (http://www.ss-australis.com/enter.htm), then click "Australis Today".)Updated images from late November are now available on the same page. Including this (http://www.ss-australis.com/fertmedia3.jpg), this (http://www.ss-australis.com/fertmedia2.jpg), and this magnificent shot (http://www.ss-australis.com/lopez1.jpg).

She's finally succumbing to nature's force after 12 years. And it's only the beginning of the winter storms.....

[airlana]

Passport Stamp?

Think the seller has got things a bit mixed up. Perhaps the wrong photo.

The stamp shown is a Registration Stamp from the post office

airlana

[GWR]

This stamp looks remarkably similar to stamps still being used up to about twelve months ago:The arrival of postal stickers. Apart from the fact that it is labelled 'Siam',and so probably pre-1939.

http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/22/7f/16_1_b.JPG.

[GWR]

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/1953/1953-31.jpg

Note the presence on the list of Dr Samak Viravaithaya & Dr Ella Viravaithaya (His Scottish Wife). The mother and father of Meechai Viravaidya (more common modern spelling of surname). Khun Meechai is currently a senator and has been a minister on several occasions. His high profile condom & HIV campaigns have made his first name the local nickname for a condom. He also owns the Cabbages & Condoms restaurants, resorts and convenience stores. His brother also runs the Pattaya Clinic.

Dr Ella survived World War Two without detention by the Japanese, by not leaving the family compound in a then remote Sukhumvit soi.

Check out the authorised biography 'From Cabbages to Condoms' by Thomas D'Agnes (Post Books). D'Agnes worked with Meechai on family-planning programs at the Cambodian refugee camps in Chonburi's Panat Nikhom District. The cover features Meechai in his mother's clan tartan. He looks every bit the balding middle-aged Scot.

I believe Ron interviewed Meechai a few years back, so I'll try and find a link.

It's in German, but I think I've seen an English version somewhere:-

http://www.morgenwelt.de/kultur/010521-marathonmann.htm

I guess I have a bit of a special interest in this guy. I once recommended an ex-boss (who didn't know the name) to meet Meechai. Having come up with the idea, I was pissed to be denied the op to meet him:-

http://www.pda.or.th/eng/

http://www.pda.or.th/c%26c/

[BangkokPundit]

I have also read 'From Cabbages to Condoms'. A fascinating book.

[ncr]

Here (http://www.pda.or.th/eng/images/pic_back_mc.gif) is the Thai Scotsman.... (From the PDA website.) So how old was he in 1953?

[GWR]

12-13. He was sent to Geelong Grammar in Australia in Jan, 1954 at the age of 13.

[GWR]

Featured Frontpage yesterday.

That ticket doesn't look very old. Seven baht would probably take you quite a long way on the canal, even in this day and age. And probably the big give away here is the fact that two of the destinations on the outside of the ticket are 'The Mall' branches. One says 'The Mall, Bangkapi'. How old is that place?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6625212438&fromMakeTrack=true

[ncr]

Yeah, that's a recent canal boat ticket like I used today, nothing special at all.........

[ncr]

......that is, unless you regard it as a collector's item from an 'exotic' location (or unusual means of transport) for someone who is unable/unwilling to travel to Thailand.

[GWR]

We seem to have lost the grey Austin A40 van in this one. ;)

Stating the obvious to most folk who have lived in Bangkok more than 5 minutes, that is obviously Sao Ching Chaa (the Giant Swing) at the end of the street.

I don't get to the Big Mango very often, so I'm not sure how SCC is currently orientated. There are aslo two other possibilities: -

(1) That SCC might have been reorientated since 1902, to better facilitate either spiritual matters or traffic flows. Note that the structure is currently under renovation, and I imagine it has been renovated more than once since 1902.

(2) That we can't automatically assume the street pattern is exactly the same as 1902, although we can see reasonably bespoke residences that might be expected to stand the test of time.

So we really have no idea of the bearing of this photo. I suspect there's a street sign over on the left on the corner house wall. I magnified it and couldn't make head or tail of it, but got the impression it might also include a 'Khet' (district) name.

Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to what street this is? The 'tram tracks' might help.

[admin]

i just posted a googleearth kmz file showing the place where the photo was taken...

[GWR]

I just saw that and came to the conclusion that I hadn't been very observant the first time I looked at it. However, that link gave me a lot of garbled characters that seemed to include Chinese, but Bamrung Muang Road was readable.

[Wisarut]

Street Scene 1902 -> It is Unmistakenbly Bumrung Muang road headign to Sao Chhing Cha (Giant Swing) ... taken a photo from Si kak sao Chong Cha

The tram line You can see is definitely City Pllar - Thanon Tok (bang Kho laem line) ... :)

[Wisarut]

http://www.2bangkok.com/06/newroad.jpg
After takign a look at this p[ostcard, i can point out that it was taken at Karachi lane so it show the Phrom Photo shop (the Oriental Lane) ... Phro Photo Shop was run by Japanese Photographer whcih was revealed later on as a Major of Intelleigence Section, IJA who perform ESPONAGE in Siam for Many years :eek:

[Pas]

^^^the centre of spy activity? I wouldn't have guessed it :eek:

[ncr]

These 3 pictures: 11 (http://www.2bangkok.com/06/s-s-ryndam11.shtml)- 12 (http://www.2bangkok.com/06/s-s-ryndam12.shtml) - 15 (http://www.2bangkok.com/06/s-s-ryndam15.shtml) must surely be of the phra prang sam yot in Lopburi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lopburi)? (Wikipedia photo by our forum member Ahoerstemeier, btw.) I don't know of any other similar Khmer structure (with 3 prangs in a row) in Thailand. Interesting to see those statues outside... whatever happened to them? Moved into a museum? Sold off by art thieves? (Also, that's of course not a particularly respectful behaviour by those gentlemen in pics 12/15.)

[Wisarut]

These stucco Buddha Images may goto the Museums in Lopburi though

[Wisarut]

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/old01.jpg

This old Photo from National Archives is showing Siamese gamblers playing local kinds of gambling (Tua Poh) ... before the abolish of local gambling dens in 1916 ... making a guess how many seeds of tamarinds kept inside .... with a fraction divided by 4 ....

[admin]

Wat Rajanada long ago
How old is this photo: http://www.2bangkok.com/07/rajanada.jpg

Jinjok notes: Since there is no sign of the Rajadamnoen Ave in the right background of the photo, it might been taken before 1899 King Rama V. has built this avenue. Latest chance for this unspoiled outlook might have been given before Field Marshall Pibul Songkram cut alle trees on this avenue in 1939 and let the houses build, but the sot was taken surely before 1899.

And here's an aerial shot showing where the photo was taken from:
http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r126/Jinjok/Thailand/?action=view&current=PhuKhaoThong.jpg

[Wisarut]

After takign a look at this photo (http://www.2bangkok.com/07/rajanada.jpg),
I even contemplate that it must be either during the time of King Mongkut
(1860's) if this photo was taken by Mr. Francis Chit (the very first local Siamese Professional Photographer) or even early days of King Chulalongkorn
(1870's)

[Wisarut]

After taking a look at these 2 photos (http://www.2bangkok.com/07/siamese-man2.jpg, http://www.2bangkok.com/07/siamese-man.jpg), he is unmistakenly PrinceBowornwichaicharn ... the last Deputy King (Wang Nah) of Siam. He took this title from 1868 to 1885 ...

After he passed away in 1885, Wang Nah (Frotn Palace) was abolished and replaced by Crown Prince in 1886.

[Wisarut]

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/oldphoto.jpg

Photo from National Archives is Another Gambling at local casino durign the Reign of King Chulalongkorn ... with Cowrie Shells as primitive chips .... However, ther were lots of boys playing this kind of gambling :eek:

[Wisarut]

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/1912-Bangkok-Thailand.jpg

This must be Ministry of Palace within Grand Palace Complex - the Chedi and Prang of Wat Prakaeo is an evidence

[Wisarut]

After taking a look at these 2 photos:

(http://www.2bangkok.com/07/siamese-man2.jpg

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/siamese-man2.jpg

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/siamese-man.jpg)

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/siamese-man.jpg

He is unmistakenly PrinceBowornwichaicharn ... the last Deputy King (Wang Nah) of Siam. He took this title from 1868 to 1885 ...

After he passed away in 1885, Wang Nah (Front Palace) was abolished and replaced by Crown Prince in 1886.

Nevertheless, one of his children (Prince Phitthayalongkorn -> 1876 - 1945) had become a great poet/writer/editor durign the reign of King Vajiravut until the WWII :)

[Wisarut]

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/Ta-Ruang-Irrigation-Rock.jpg

This one is Tha Luang Irrigation Lock (AKA Phra Ram 6 Dam) , the first part of SOuthern Pasak Irrigation Scheme at Tambon Tha Luang, Tharua district of Ayutthaya. Rama 6 Dam was constructed in 1915 and opened for irrigation in 1924 by King Vajiravut.


http://www.2bangkok.com/07/TRAIN-to-PAKNAI-BANGKOK.jpg
More likely, it is a pier near Paknam railway station.

[Wisarut]

The database of Photographs of Siamese Noble Persons alogn with Princes and Princesses who had been grant Royal Titles

http://www.siamimage.net/Imagebase_page/Oldpict.htm

[ncr]

Scans of historical and current Thai banknotes (http://www.banknoteworld.com/countries/thailand.html). (And also here (http://www.worldpapermoney.org/thailand.htm).)

Also interesting: military issues (in Dollar currency) from the 70s (example (http://www.banknoteworld.com/banknotes/thailand/ThailandPM23-10Dollars-(1970s)-donatedowl_f.jpg)) - anyone got any background information on that?

On the note(s) it says "Thai soldiers help Vietnam", "Only for Thai soldiers in the Republic of Vietnam" and "Royal Thai Forces Vietnam".

[Wisarut]

Example of Thai MPCs in US Dollar Denomination is for RTA who fought in South Vietnam (AKA Royal Thai Army Volunteer Force - the Black Panther Division)

These MPCs are more like coupons though

http://www.army.mil/cmh/books/Vietnam/allied/ch02.htm

[ttaaee]

I think it is the stupa in Wat Rajaburana Rajaworawihara (http://members.thai.net/bird/documents/1-2-18.htm) near the Memorial Bridge (Rama I Bridge). :)

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/wh/wh23.jpghttp://members.thai.net/bird/images/1_2_18/1.jpg

[Wisarut]

Yah, I DOD belive that this stupa is at Wat Liab (Wat Ratchaboorana) even thoug my second though said Stopa at Wat Sampluem (Wat Chakkrawat Rachawart) is a possible choice sicne these 2 temples are nto far away ... but Stupa at Wat Sam Pluem is bigger and taller though ....

[admin]

From a reader: The Photo you published from Wally Higgens is probably the Prang outside the Wat Ratchaburana in the corner of Thanon Chak Phet near the Phra Buddha Yodfa Bridge (District Pahurat).

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/x.jpg

I took a picture of my own in my pre-digital time of 2001 from the Phra Buddha Yodfa Memorial.

With kind regards
from Dortmund (Germany)
Jinjok

[admin]

From a reader: On today's page of 2bangkok.com there is a picture of an old prang
entitled

Past Thailand: "Near Chao Phraya Bridge - 2-22-1959"

You were asking about the location of tis prang?

It belongs to Wat Rajaburana, which is next to Phra Puttha Yodfa
Bridge over the Chao Phraya.

On the bottom of my humble (German) page about "Virtual Rattanakosin
Walks" I put a quite recent photo of the same prang:
http://www.hdamm.de/reise/rtrg5/rtt5-03.php

Regards

Heinrich

[Nomsen]

It must be Wat Liab. You see the fence in front of the Prang, which both fences at the corners of Tripetch Rd. are the same, Wat Liab and Suankularb Wittayalai School on another side. I just wonder were these fences designed and built together with Memorial Bridge 75 years ago?

[ttaaee]

http://www.2bangkok.com/07/Koi-chang-1905.jpg

Can it be "Koh-Si-Chang"? :confused:

[ncr]

Well spotted! I am rather sure it is Ko Si Chang (Chonburi), not Ko Chang (Trat).

[dick]

On stamps of Malacca (1867, 1868-1882) there were in 1882 and 1883 overprints with a "B" of BANGKOK. I have some in my stamp collection Thailand; what is the story behind these issues?
On July 1. 1885 al these stamps were replaced by Thai issues.

[Wisarut]

Oh, From 1865 or so to 1 July 1885, Siamese government had to rely on the Straite Settlemetn Stamps from Singapore ..... They have to couterstamp "B" as a reference to "Bangkok" ... before sending those letter and parcel via British Consul in Bangkok
http://www.siamstamp.com/history/images/eastindia.jpg
REF: http://www.siamstamp.com/history/index.php

[dick]

Thanks, Khun Wisarut,
Now on illustration, even 'B' with Crown, that's new to me.
The information about these series is very poor unfortunately, even in an old Thai Stamp Catalogue (by P. Kovadhana) no singn of these stamps.