4 MassTransit bids b4 end 08

[Wisarut]

1) Light Green 24 km Charansnitwongse - Samut Prakarn
46.300 billion Baht. This line will add into the existing 10 km (National Stadium - Saim Onnut) whcih will go to Paknam via Sukhumvit Road at one end and go to Bobae market, Rattanakosin Island, Ratchadamnoen Avenue before crossing Chaophraya at Pinklao and then go to Bangkok Noy Railway Station before ending up at Charansanitwongse near Samyaek Faichai

// --------------------------------------------------------
2) Dark Green 19 km Saphan Mai [Donmuang] - Phetkasem
28.100 billion Baht. This line will add into existing 13.5 km (Mochit - Siam - Saladaeng - Saphan Taksin). This will go to Sapahan Mai via Phaholyothin Road at one end and go across Chaophraya to Phetkasem Road (Bang Wah) via New Sathon Road [Krung Thonburi, Taksin-Phetkasem road]
// -----------------------------------------------------------
3) Blue Ring 27 km Bangsue-Bang Kae 46.200 billion Baht
This will add into the upcoming 20 km Blue line to go to Rattakosin Islan via Charoen Krung Road and the ngo across Chao Phraya at Pakklogn Talad before heading to Bangkok Yai, Tha Phra and end up at Lak Song area (The Mall Bang Khae) at one end and the otehr end will be elevated and then go across Chaophraya at Bang Pho and then go to Charan Sanitwongse Road at Bang O ... The lend will end up at Tha Phra to be interchange station with the first end. This line wong go to Mahai Sawan and Rama III Road for now.

// ----------------------------------------------------------
4) Purple line 40 km Bangyai - Rat Boorana 74.9 billion Baht ...
This one will go from Bangyai and go across the river at Pha Nanklao before goign through Khae rai and interchange wiht Blue Ring at Bang Pho before diving down to go alogn Sam Sen Road to Bang Lamphu and hten go alogn City Moat to Memorai Bridge (station will be at Thonburi side to prevent damage on King Rama I Monument) before headign to Wongwian Yai and then go along Taksin-Suksawat Road untit the line elevate after reaching Mahaisawan before ending up at the Boundary Stone between Bangkok (Rat Boorana) and Samut Prakarn (Phra Padaeng)

// ------------------------------------------------------
5) Orange Line 24 km Bang Kapi - Bang Bumru 62.500 billion BahtThis is the lefetover orange line whcih has been cut aftr passing though Sang Hee Road. After that the line will go to Krung Thonburi Bridge and then go along Ratwithee Road before
endign up at Bang Bumru Railway Station.

// ------------------------------------------------------
6) Red Line commuter 65 km -> Rangsit - Mahachai 59.700 billion Baht - thhis will go alogn Northenr Zrailway to Hua Lamphogn before going along the New Bridge to Ladya andore heading to
Wongwian Yai station and then go along Mahachai Railway to Mahachai.

//-----------------------------------------------------
7) Pink Airport Line 50 km Talingchai - NBIA 46.300 billion Baht This will go along Souhtern line to Bangsue before sharing the trak with Red line commuter to Yommaraj before heading to
slong Rastern Railway to NBIA.

// ------------------------------------------------------------
8) Yellow Line - 22-km elavated line along Thepharak - Sri Nakharin Road to Bangkapai via Hua Mark station and Seacon Square. This is the first part of Governor Samak's 82.5-km
RIng Railway

//--------------------------------------------------------
Regret that those who live along Ram Indra Road and Lad Phrao road will be deprived from the mass transit system ... they will get the bus rapid traansit as substitute.

[The Enforcer!]

Yesterday the Government announced a full investment of 480 Bil Baht (US$ 12Bil) for seven lines to be completed over the next five years:

1. Prannock-Samut Prakarn
2. Bangwa-Saphan Mai
3. Outer Ring Road-Charansanitwong
4. Bangyai-Ratburana
5. Bangkapi-Bang Bamru
6. Rangsit-Mahachai
7. Talingchan-NBIA

I take this to be endorsement of the BANGKOK MASS RAPID TRANSIT proposals ...

1. Prannock-Samut Prakarn
This is the BTS Silom Line of the Skytrain from Central to National Stadium extended to Prannock (Samyaek Faichai) added to the Sukhumvit Line of the Skytrain from Central to On-Nut extended to Samrong thence Samut Prakarn. 33km in total with 14km of Skytrain existing.

2. Bangwa-Saphan Mai
This is the BTS Silom Line of the Skytrain from Central to Saphan taksin extended to Bangwa (Phetkasem) added to the Sukhumvit Line of the Skytrain from Central to Morchit extended to Saphan Mai. 31km in total with 16km of Skytrain existing.

3. Outer Ring Road-Charansanitwong
This is the MRTA Blue Line, linking both Bangsue and Hua Lampong with Tha Phra, and a spur running from Tha Phra to Bang Khae. 57km in total with 20km of Metro existing

4. Bangyai-Ratburana
This is the MRTA Purple Line, overground from Bang Yai to Bangsue then underground to Wongwian Yai and returning to overground to Ratburana. 40km - all new.

5. Bangkapi-Bang Bamru
This is the MRTA Purple Line, overground from Bangkapi to MRTA Depot then underground to Sanghee and returning to overground to Bang Bamru. 24km - all new.

6. Rangsit-Mahachai
This is the SRT Red Line, overground from Rangsit to Bangsue then elevated to Wongwian Yai and returning to overground to Mahachai. 65km in total with 31km existing of SRT.
>> However this fails to look at extensions either end to Ban Phachee and Pak Tho as announced on Monday!

7. Talingchan-NBIA
This is the SRT Pink Line, overground from Talingchan to Bangsue then elevated to NBIA. 50km in total with 23km existing of SRT.
>> However this also fails to look at extensions either end to Nakhon Pathom and Chachongsao as announced on Monday!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Khun Enforcer,

The extension to Nakhon Pathom (56 km form Hua Lamphong), Ban Phachee Junction (90 km from Hua Lamphong) and Chachongsao (61 km from Hua Lamphong) is STRICTLY the electrified meter guage tracks ....

On the other hand, the Airport Express (Phayathai - Makkasan - Lad Krabang NBIA) and the extension (Phayathai - Yommaraj - Bangsue - Donmuang) will be standard guage electrified track ....

Now, I would like to see how they are going to implement ....

[The Enforcer!]

Dear Khun Wisarut,

Are you saying that they are two different gauges thus need different track and trackbed?

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

Three months on - still no movement on BTS!!

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Governor Apirak comes up with BTS & BRT extensions - translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Manager Daily, January 31, 2005

1) The pending extensions (8.9 km Samrong Extension and 2.2 km Taksin Extension)
2) The proposed extensions [according to OTP Plan]
2.1) Paknam Extension (Samrong -Samut Prakarn - 7.9 km)
2.2) Phetkasem Extension (Taksin Intersection - Phetkasem - 4.5 km)
2.3) Phaholyothin Extension (Mochit - Saphan Mai - 12 km)
2.4) Rattnakosin Extension (National Stadium - Phrannok - 7.0 km)
Total 31.4 km
The results from studies will be submitted by the end of 2005.
2.5) Saphan Mai - Lum Lookka (14 km) -> under study

3) The first 2 BRT routes modified
3.1) Charakhae Bua (Ram Indra km8) - Nawamin - Kaset - Mochit [Linking Pink Monorail with Blue Line for those who live along Nawamin Road and Kaset-Nawamin]
3.2) Rajaphruek Road (Taksin - Phetkasem road) - Bangkok Bridge - Rama III Road - Chong Nonsee, Surawongse (Linking line to cover the track not covered by Silom line and extensions)

These 2 BRT lines will be constructed in October 2005
4) New BRT lines as replacements for Samak's pet projects
4.1) Suvannabhum BRT (Onnut - Lad Krabang - Suvannabhum Airport -> 20 km)
4.2) Bang Na BRT (Banna - Wat Sri Lam - Ramkhamhaeng 2 -> 8 km)

5) Improving the canal boat services to function as feeders
5.1) Improved Saensaeb line
5.2) Improved Phaseecharoen line
5.3) Revived Lad Phrao line
5.4) Revived Premprachakorn line
5.5) Revived Phadung Krungkaserm line

6) Other traffic accessories
6.1) 200 smart bus stop signs (done in July 2005)
6.2) 150 smart taxi stop signs (done in June 2005)
6.3) 40 smart traffic signs (done in October 2005)
6.4) 34 smart crossing lights (done in July 2005)

However, BMA needs government approval for modifying the conditions to allow BMA to bail BTSC out of trouble.


Well, honestly, what we've heard from the guy so far have only been good things. He for one is delivering on promises, or at least he tries. Coming up with initiatives and pushing them forward. What a contrast to Ai Samak. Just hope he can go on like this and his ideas get implemented some time.

I also like the proposal about the khlong boat improval/revival. Talk about integration of all imaginable modes of transport!

And then, can't wait to see all that 'smart' stuff on Bangkok's roads! ;) Anyone know what that means in detail? :confused:

[The Enforcer!]

Well, honestly, what we've heard from the guy so far have only been good things. He for one is delivering on promises, or at least he tries. Coming up with initiatives and pushing them forward. What a contrast to Ai Samak. Just hope he can go on like this and his ideas get implemented some time.
Sorry, Ideas? Implemented?

The most embarassing thing about Apirak IMHO is that he has failed to do a single thing since he was elected! We have had five months of virtual silence then this press release rehashing old stuff ... the first section of which (Skytrain) he has absolutely no power to deliver!

Very disapppinted with his performance,

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Khun Enforcer,

Wait until Khun Aphilux got the contractors for BRT lines
(Km 8 - Nawamin - Kaset - Mochit, Surawongse - Chong Nonsee -
Rama 3 - Krungthep bridge - Ratchapruek Road)
in this April and then you can give him a bad rap as you want if
the project cannot be opened to run Euro 3 Articulated BRT buses
on time (October 2005)

Now, we know that BRT service will run from 5 AM to 11 PM
with ticket price from 10 to 18 Baht

[The Enforcer!]

Khun Enforcer,

Wait until Khun Aphilux got the contractors for BRT lines
(Km 8 - Nawamin - Kaset - Mochit, Surawongse - Chong Nonsee -
Rama 3 - Krungthep bridge - Ratchapruek Road)
in this April and then you can give him a bad rap as you want if
the project cannot be opened to run Euro 3 Articulated BRT buses
on time (October 2005)

Now, we know that BRT service will run from 5 AM to 11 PM
with ticket price from 10 to 18 Baht
Sorry Khun Wisarut, but BRT is a bad idea anyway and its implimentation (whether on time or not) will do nothing to ease traffic congestion, it may actually add to it!

There are lots of simple things he could have done to make his mark on Bangkok and help (as opposed to hinder) the Democrat effort in the recent General Election.

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Agree with you about your viewpoints on BRT ...
However, Premier Thaksin and Co are goining to grab
Subway-Skytrain anyway .. leavign BMA a BRT project as
the alternative.

[Yappofloyd]

I think it is a tad harsh to expect a new governor to achieve much in the first 6 mths as they are usually introducing new policies into the bureaucracy and getting an idea of the main issues. Perhaps, after a year is a more appropiate time-frame to be critical.

I also cannot wait for those smart[B] signs!

Eg.
Q: (to taxi smart sign on Thannon Silom) 'how long has this taxi been parked here in the bus stop area and how much will the driver charge me to go to Siam?'.

A: 'khitwa, song wan lao' (I think, 2 days already), 'Pang muck... banti sii rawy! Khun, pai rot fai far, diigwa.' (Very expensive....maybe 400. Better, you go by skytrain)

Anyway, I also like the fact that BMA proposes to reintroduce 3 defunct canal lines. Can someone pls detail the starting/finishing points of the 3 routes?

Re BRT: given one centre lane on each road will be a dedicated BRT lane then it does seem that it will create more congestion for other buses plying the same route by moving traffic. Ie. on the Kaset section, Thannon Phahon Yothin which is mostly 4 lanes from memory, the centre lanes will go and then traffic be moved further into the left lane mainly used by other buses. On this road there is already about 10-12 bus routes (although I assume a couple may go after BRT is intro'd) so it seems it will create more problems.

Why not just introduce and better enforce bus only lanes as it is already mean't to be on some roads?

Does anyone know if the Euro 3 articulated buses will be diesel or LNG? Why are there not more LNG buses in BKK?

[Hitesh]

With the slow but sure(?) introduction of these new mass transit lines (mrt, bts and brt) I think it is time the bma recognise the need to overhaul the bus system in Bangkok and alter its role a little from transporting commuters across the city (as it is used today) to something resembling a shuttle service serving areas in between train/brt stations.

do you guys think this would be a good idea?

[ncr]

do you guys think this would be a good idea?Sure, their function must be adjusted to become more of a feeder service. Sadly, this intention is still completely missing at the moment! (Try to connect to a subway station by bus....) :(

[Yappofloyd]

Actually, I am sure I remembering reading an article late last year (Nation or Post) about an overhaul of the govt buses which said that once subway lines are all built the number of buses will be reduced and routes changed. From memory it was something like 7K current buses will be reduced to 4K but don't quote me on those figures. (I'll see if I can find the article).

I am not sure what control MRTA has on the private bus concession holders in order to co-ord. future planning to intergrate with mass transit. However, there seems to be a lot of competition for passengers btn govt and private which leads to unnecessary duplication, bad intergration and congestion/delays.

The buses are a good example of poor planning as you can have 4 different types of buses plying the same route (govt. red and orange aircon, private - green & white/blue). Throw in taxis hanging out in bus stop areas, poor traffic management which does not prioritise buses and virtually no respect/enforcement of bus lanes and you have a complete mess! :mad:

The main pertainent query regarding these plans seems to be is whether or not a 'Future Master Transport Plan for Greater BKK' (incl. Samut Prakan, Nontaburi & Pathum Thani areas) exists. A well-research, fully consultative and transparent framework planning document which takes into account traffic flows, mass transit plans, pop. growth, travel patterns etc, etc, etc. Such urban transport plans are done almost everywhere else but I am not so sure about here given the seemingly constant lack of co-ord, (competition?), between different agencies, arms of govt and concession companies.


Does such a 'Transport Master Plan' actually exist and is MRTA or OTP meant to perform this function? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[pong]

there are even more buses: also the minivans (rot thur) on many routes, but not that many in the centre.
there WERE 100 buses on NGV 9thats how they call it at BMTA) since some 10 years ago, series 1001-1050 on Mercbenz and 2001-2050 on MAN, on nrs (now) 503 and 522. However, there were continuous problems with the fuel supply (in the bus I mean) and the 2000 were abandoned after some 4-5 years (when the orange EURO2 came in). on some bad days less as half the normal service could only be provided in the evenings.
as with most things Thai/transpo, of course the answer is money: I stil have to see even on the promised BRT routes (Ithink the ram Indira road, all the way from Bang Khen into Minburi could do well for it) it can only be gross money loosers even at EURO-ACfares - thus for the poor people the white 5 baht buses keep on running. and BKK/BMA still has to accept the fact that good public transport cost a lot of money to subsidize.
apparently BKKians are even averse at paying the charges for the daily refuse collection.

[The Enforcer!]

I think it is a tad harsh to expect a new governor to achieve much in the first 6 mths as they are usually introducing new policies into the bureaucracy and getting an idea of the main issues.
Maybe harsh but he knew when he took office that the General Election was in February - yet nothing appears to have been done on almost any front that would have shown that Democrats have workable policies!!

Most people when they take over a new role, do something fast and furious to 'put their mark' ... we waited four years for Samak's and it never came!!!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

Governor Apirak comes up with BTS & BRT extensions - translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Manager Daily, January 31, 2005

1) The pending extensions (8.9 km Samrong Extension and 2.2 km Taksin Extension)
2) The proposed extensions [according to OTP Plan]
2.1) Paknam Extension (Samrong -Samut Prakarn - 7.9 km)
2.2) Phetkasem Extension (Taksin Intersection - Phetkasem - 4.5 km)
2.3) Phaholyothin Extension (Mochit - Saphan Mai - 12 km)
2.4) Rattnakosin Extension (National Stadium - Phrannok - 7.0 km)
Total 31.4 km
The results from studies will be submitted by the end of 2005.
2.5) Saphan Mai - Lum Lookka (14 km) -> under study

3) The first 2 BRT routes modified
3.1) Charakhae Bua (Ram Indra km8) - Nawamin - Kaset - Mochit [Linking Pink Monorail with Blue Line for those who live along Nawamin Road and Kaset-Nawamin]
3.2) Rajaphruek Road (Taksin - Phetkasem road) - Bangkok Bridge - Rama III Road - Chong Nonsee, Surawongse (Linking line to cover the track not covered by Silom line and extensions)

These 2 BRT lines will be constructed in October 2005
4) New BRT lines as replacements for Samak's pet projects
4.1) Suvannabhum BRT (Onnut - Lad Krabang - Suvannabhum Airport -> 20 km)
4.2) Bang Na BRT (Banna - Wat Sri Lam - Ramkhamhaeng 2 -> 8 km)

5) Improving the canal boat services to function as feeders
5.1) Improved Saensaeb line
5.2) Improved Phaseecharoen line
5.3) Revived Lad Phrao line
5.4) Revived Premprachakorn line
5.5) Revived Phadung Krungkaserm line

6) Other traffic accessories
6.1) 200 smart bus stop signs (done in July 2005)
6.2) 150 smart taxi stop signs (done in June 2005)
6.3) 40 smart traffic signs (done in October 2005)
6.4) 34 smart crossing lights (done in July 2005)

However, BMA needs government approval for modifying the conditions to allow BMA to bail BTSC out of trouble.


Well, honestly, what we've heard from the guy so far have only been good things. He for one is delivering on promises, or at least he tries. Coming up with initiatives and pushing them forward. What a contrast to Ai Samak. Just hope he can go on like this and his ideas get implemented some time.

I also like the proposal about the khlong boat improval/revival. Talk about integration of all imaginable modes of transport!

And then, can't wait to see all that 'smart' stuff on Bangkok's roads! ;) Anyone know what that means in detail? :confused:
Thought that it may be time to give Khun Apirak a score for what he has thus far implemented on the transport front after the big headlines in Jan.

1) BTS - big points for pushing the Taksin ext with a deadline for late 06 and exposing the govts hypocrisy. Hopefully some movement soon on the other exts..

2) BRT - the Oct or end of year deadline always looked unlikely and it is hard to say with confidence that BRT will be operational by end of 2006. Meanwhile Jakarta is raidly expanding their network with 2 new lines about to open after opening their first line in Jan 04.

3) Canal Boats - two new lines from Saphan Taksin to Phetkasem and Rama III. Other lines about to open? Big points here for bringing services back to the klongs.

4) Smart signs -
a) All the traffic density signs seem to be in place (finally bangkok joins other major cities in the world which have used this technology for 10-20 yrs!) which helps alleviate congestion on the roads.
b) I haven't seen too many of the bus stops signs working but I've only been back a few days...these are very important so would be good to know if there are working..
c) ditto for the taxi ones, I seens lots of new taxi stops signs, but only a few of the 'smart' taxi stops all of which were not installed yet. Again, I am not sure that there is a real need for smart taxi stops but anyway...

So in summary and being somewhat generous given how slow things change here, I would give Khun Apirak 6 out of 10 with major pluses being the BTS ext win and new canal routes. The major minus being the slow progress of BRT after raising expectations. It has to be said that he has achieved more that Samak ever did...

Your thoughts?

[Yappofloyd]

Political battle for Bangkok to heat up SUPOJ WANCHAROEN (Bkk Post 02/01/06)
The political battle for power in Bangkok is expected to intensify this year as the Thai Rak Thai party attempts to win back the hearts of Bangkok residents, currently governed by a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) under the control of the opposition Democrat party. The BMA, under the helm of Governor Apirak Kosayodhin, a deputy leader of the Democrats, may be forced to adjust its strategy or risk losing votes to Thai Rak Thai, observers say.

They also say Thai Rak Thai's foot-dragging over the 2.2-kilometre skytrain extension to Thon Buri was politically motivated as it did not want to see Mr Apirak become more popular with city people. Strong public sentiment against the ruling party's tactics forced the government to back down. Mr Apirak's plan to launch a Bus Rapid Transit system, one of his election campaign pledges aimed at alleviating traffic congestion in the city, also faced difficulties when the government rejected the BMA's request for the government to reverse a cabinet resolution which makes the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority the sole authority over bus routes.

In a bid to gain ground politically on Mr Apirak, the cabinet has assigned PM's Office Minister Newin Chidchob to oversee traffic affairs in Bangkok for the government. Mr Newin, who was earlier assigned by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to oversee several ad hoc assignments, including the ''one million cows to farmers'' project, responded quickly to the trust put in him by the prime minister. He has proposed the ''roads of smiles'' project, which aims to provide parking space for taxis at government offices, department stores and in designated areas on the city's streets.

The project, which is due to kick off this month, appears to aim to compete with the ''smart'' taxi stand project launched by Mr Apirak in 2005. The governor plans to provide a number of stands with arched roofs near bus stops or other designated areas. Passengers will call a taxi by simply pressing a button, alerting a control centre which will then ensure taxi dispatchers send a cab to the stand.

[The Enforcer!]

As we start 2006, can anyone put REALISTIC DATES on any of Khun Apirak's projects starting ... BTS, BRT etc.

The Enforcer!

[Pasci]

Hello there...
Bangkok is famous around the world for it's notorious traffic jams which make the cities roads and sois to a nightmare.
The Thai government has been struggeling with this problem very heavily.
2 BTS lines, 1 Subway line, 1 Airport link, oh yea, and lots of air polluting busses. That's all that BKK has to offer in terms of mass transportation. A city with well over 10 million people and many klongs...
Has anybody ever heard of the 'floating train' in Wuppertal, Germany?
Well have a look at the photos here (http://www.u-bahnen-in-deutschland.de/wu/wuppertal-gallery.htm). Wouldn't it be much better to build the new mass transportation network similar to this one?
Pascal
pasci.org

p.s. I tried to upload the photos to this tread but it seems not possible with this forum system.

[Wisarut]

Khun Pasci.

When I look at those phto, I just think it it would be a good substitute for the section whcih are goign to be Monorail (Pakket - Minburi and Moin Buri - Bang Kapi) ....

[Pasci]

Considering the many klongs in Bangkok, it would be really practical to build a train like this over those klongs. Nobody has to move away, and traffic will not be disturbed as was the case for the construction of the skytrain.

[GWR]

I seem to remember Bunchoo Rojanasatien was flogging the idea of monorails over khlongs back in the late 90s. In fact, I suspect Wuppertal was partly his inspiration.

He also advocated a network of expressways lining the banks of the Chao Phraya.

[Yappofloyd]

Well my 6 out of 10 has just gone down to 5 given the suspension of BRT due to corruption.

To answer your query Khun Enforcer it still seems that BTS Taksin can be done by the end of the year but for BRT....perhaps 2010 the way things are going. By the time Bangkok may be opening its first line Jakarta will have something like 12 BRT lines from their current 3!

[Pasci]

Ok, having expressways parallel to the Chao Phraya River would be really ugly. Bad idea.

But what happened to the idea of having trains over klongs?? Why aren't they doing it? Is it too expensive? Is it too difficult to build? Is there any engineer on this forum that could answer these questions?

[GWR]

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/srt/timeline.shtml

Threw up this one liner:-

1996
Proposal for “Khlong Tramway” (monorail along three major canals in Bangkok) by Governor Bhichit Rattanakun– never realised

More here:-

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/MassTransit/oddsends.shtml

A lot more here, on the routes & stations:-

http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/MassTransit/klong.shtml

[BangkokBlues]

NO please never hang that stuff up in Bangkok.

[Wisarut]

Khun Pasci, Have you EVER ask the localpeople who live along Saen Saeb canal (Many are Muslim) if they EVER want thsi project to be implemented? You cannot get project to go alogn the canal withotu theri consent!
Never forget that they have lived alogn Mahanak-Saensaeb canalfor abotu 200 years ....

[The Enforcer!]

Never forget that they have lived alogn Mahanak-Saensaeb canalfor abotu 200 years ....
Gosh! They must be a little grey-haired by now?

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

On top of which, they have managed to fend off an expressway spur through their area. At least, so far!

Anyone know if this expressway spur has ever formally been abandoned?

[Commuter]

As of last Thursday all previous concepts for providing Bangkok with an adequate Mass Transit System are off and Mr. Thaksin, (proud father of 73 billion baht) requests investors to submit creative financial proposals for all or some of the 10 mass transit lines on his wish-list within 90 days! Maybe I am a cynic, but I can't help recalling the article in the Bangkok Post on 5 August 2004 "Chinese Firm Eyes Work on New Train Systems" detailing how one Chinese group was interested in funding and providing a complete system in conjunction with a well known local company. See now the front page of the Business Section of the Bangkok Post on 27 January 2006, the day following Mr. Thaksin's official announcement, where one well known local company announces that it will join with a Chinese Group in bidding for 20 mega projects, including all 10 mass transit projects. To engineer that in one and a half years is quite an achievement. Happy Chinese New Year.

[jpatokal]

I like monorails (when used intelligently), but for the life of me I still can't figure out what the advantage of suspending one is, as opposed to the more rational straddle type...? :confused: I've taken a ride on the Chiba Urban Monorail (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiba_Urban_Monorail), which is pretty much the world's only modern suspended monorail, and it's slower and sways more than the straddle kind. Pretty much the only advantage I can see is that -- theoretically -- you don't have to clean the track from fallen leaves, snow etc, neither of which is a major problem in Bangkok.

[R. Zimmermann]

This forum member seems to remember that the subject of monorails had
been fairly thoroughly discussed some time ago, giving room to various
differing opinions. A number of photos, including Chiba, had been posted.
Please refer.

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Zimmerman is right as we have had many postings on monorail.

Pasci, appreciate that your looking at other ideas but I agree with others who would oppose such a system given the amount of gantry needed to support it. It would really destroy any sense of space on some of the Klongs whioch have generally been fairly abused anyway due to porr planning and use as rubbish dumps. Although some of the BTS and subway lines may pass along some klongs the impact should be minimal.

Anyway, I am not a fan of monorail and especially for a big, densely populated city like Bangkok.

jpatokal, I also do not like Chiba as it is very slow and jolts. However I noticed that there are extending the system.

[Wisarut]

Poll on Mass Transit System Project
Manager - May 17, 2006

The Top 5 of the Mass Transit System are:

1) Red Line Commuter (Rangsit - Mahachai)
2) Pink Airport Link (Talingchan - Suvannabhum)
3) Southenr Section of Blue Ring (Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae)
4) Yellow LRT (Lad Phrao - Hua Mark - Sri Nakharin - Samrong)
5) BTS Sktrain (Phrannok - National Stadium, Onnut - Bang Na - Samrong - Samut Prakarn)


The ticket fee for integrated system is 10-30 Baht

Most people wish that the systme will be construction on 2006 and done in 2012

So far, BTS is trying to negotiate with BMCL so they can come up with Jointed ticket system ....

REF: http://www.manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000064500

[Wisarut]

Pheng Asking for Private Sectors to Invesat on Suvannabhum Airport Link,
Blue Ring and Pruiple Line
Dailyness - June 17, 2006

Minister Pehgn is asking for Private sectors to invest on 3 mass transit line
whcih can be explained in details as follows:

1) Suvannabhum Airport Link Phase 2 (Phayathai - Donmuang - Rangsit) 32 km, 40.5 billion Baht
2) Purple Line (Bangsue Bang Yai) 23 km 46.599 billion Baht
3) Blue Ring 27 km 75.003 billion Baht
3.1) Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae -> 14 km, 49.902 billoion Baht
3.2) Bangsue - Tha Phra -> 13 km, 25.101 billion Baht


Note: the section for Suvannabhum Airport Link Phase 2 may be at grade on Local road from Chitladda
Triangle to Bangsue (or Samsen) to cut down the expense.

Note 2: Pheng You have alientated the private sector to such extend that nobody is goign to bail you out ...
Hope that you are goign to ask for more loan for World Bank, KfW and JBIC ....

[The Enforcer!]

Who wants a bet that, outside of the BMA funded Taksin extension, and the Airport Link, that NOT ONE MILLIMETRE of new Mass Transit railway is laid in 2006.

The Enforcer!
I wrote this on 31.12.05, and it seems that for 2006 I was sadly correct - anyone willling to bet this will be the situation in 2007 as well?

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Enforcer, your words were indeed prophetic!

On the same thread I had wished for at least two lines to begin construction by the end of 2006 but alas....

However I am willing to go out on a limb, in a big way I might add, and be proved wrong again and make the same wish. (Shall we say dinner at the Bangkok establishment of the winners choosing?)

Who knows, I may even contribute financially and buy some steel to get a couple of feet of new railway line laid should 2007 be yet another year of wasted opportunity!:rolleyes:

[The Enforcer!]

at least two lines to begin construction by the end of 2006 ....make the same wish

To go boldly where no man has gone before yeh?

The Enforcer!

[TGunner]

I read it on skyscrapercity.com that that it would take at least 24 months to get the construction of the blue and purple lines started (thanks to the tedious regulation of joint gov't-private sector investment..and the determination of the new government for transparency in every step of the way.) So realistically, possibly only the red line will have any chance of getting bid, and hopefully beginning its contruction in 2007. No words on the extensions of the two green lines though.... :mad:

So if one line (the red line) can begin its contrcution in 2007.....I'd be very very happy. :)

By the way, the contruction of the green line extension on Sukhumwit (also fundded by BMA) began this year.... Not if you guys counted this.

[The Enforcer!]

By the way, the contruction of the green line extension on Sukhumwit (also fundded by BMA) began this year.... Not if you guys counted this.

Has it been laid? Certianly no construction as started as far as I can see just moving wires and pipes and things. But yes, it would be nice if this was built and track laid in 2007.

The Enforcer!

[TGunner]

I think you are right. It's only been the preparation work so far on that line. Hopefully it will be completed on time.

[The Enforcer!]

Hopefully it will be completed on time.

"Somewhere over the rainbow....."

The Enforcer!

[TGunner]

:p ............ :) Haha...

[Yappofloyd]

Has it been laid? Certianly no construction as started as far as I can see just moving wires and pipes and things. But yes, it would be nice if this was built and track laid in 2007.

The Enforcer!

For the On Nut to Soi 107 ext I thought that the original plan was for supporting pillars to start being built from Jan for the first few months and then work would progressively start on the viaduct. Obviously this will take most of the next 18 months. What will be interesting is if they start building stations immediately after a section is finished which would make sense to reduce overall construction time and interruption of traffic but....

I for one wasn't counting this line nor the airport line. I am hoping that the 24 month lead time is a furphy and that something will start on the Purple and Blue by end of 07. I have less hope for the Red Line given SRT politics.

[GWR]

Am I alone in thinking that this is Bangkokians' reward for not grumbling much about the coup? :D (Note that the number six reported below differs from the thread headline. I decided to change the headline to reflect the eventual decision for five routes): -

Construction of six much-welcomed Bt165bn mass-transit lines set to begin

The Cabinet will today consider six proposed electric-rail routes costing Bt165 billion. Construction is due to commence in October.

Environmental-impact assessments have been completed for the Red Line only.

"We propose to start with construction of the Bt11 billion, 15-kilometre Bang Sue to Taling Chan route. Bidding will kick off in April," Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning director-general Maitree Srinarawat said.

"Construction plans are designed to match loan approvals from the Japan Bank for International Cooperation," Maitree added.

Of the six new routes, the Bang Sue to Taling Chan, Bang Sue to Rangsit and Bang Sue to Makkasan legs form the Red Line.

The others lines are known as Purple, Green, and Blue.

Construction of all routes should start before June 2008. Deputy Prime Minister MR Pridiyathorn Devakula said each route would take three years to build.

Finance Ministry, Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning, State Railway of Thailand (SRT) and Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand officials are working out financing.

In today's Cabinet submission the Transport Ministry said a detailed financing plan should be ready soon.

"The Cabinet is considering a rough plan. Details concerning money, financing sources and construction schedules will be submitted later," said SRT chief engineer Prasert Attanant.

The Cabinet will today consider the results of a public hearing conducted by the ministry and the Suan Dusit Rajabhat University.

Public hearings were done over the Internet and in person-to-person interviews and workshops. Most people support the new rail links and suggested starting with the 60-kilometre Rangsit to Bang Sue to Taling Chan route.

Two thirds of respondents suggested fares between Bt13 and Bt36. One third suggested a fixed fare of Bt24 for all distances.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/06/headlines/headlines_30026084.php

[GWR]

Cabinet approves Bangkok's mass transit projects

The Cabinet Tuesday approved in principle the general details of five Bangkok mass transit projects proposed by the Transport Ministry.

Government agencies will have to provide details of construction and funding for each project and submit them to the Cabinet for final approval. Construction of some projects may be broken down into phases. The first phase bidding is for the 15-km. "red line" route set for this April, Mass Rapid Transit Authority Governor Prapat Chongsanguan said.

The government said the projects will be funded by bond issue and loans from the Japan Bank for International Cooperation.

- The Nation



http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30026111

[TGunner]

Awesome. I hope the whole projects will be carried out seamlessly by the new government (after the election) too. No more hiccups please. :fingerscrossed:

[Wisarut]

The Details:
1) Red Line Commuter (Bangsue - Talingchan) Bidding April 2007, Constructed October 2007, Done March 2010
2) Purple Line (Bangsue - Bang Yai) Bidding May 2007, Constructed December 2007, Done June 2011
3) Blue Ring (Bangsue - Tha Phra/Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae) Bidding December 2007, Constructed April 2008 Done November 2012
4) Red Line Commuter (Bang Sue - Rangsit) Bidding October 2007, constructed April 2008, Done March 2012
5) Geen Phaholyothin Extension (Mochit - Saphan Mai) bidding December 2007 constructed June 2008, Done March 2011
6) Red line commuter (Bangsue - Makkasan - Hua Mark) Bidding Dec 2007, Constructed June 2008 and Done November 2012

Total cost: 149 Billion Baht

Even thouhg Governemnnt is aimgn for JBIC Loan, MOF has to find an alternative if JBIC REFUSES to accept the projects.


NOTE: No Paknam Extension (Bearing - Samut Prakarn) at the time being until the settlement on the issue of goign across BMA Border has been solved.

[The Enforcer!]

NOTE: No Paknam Extension (Bearing - Samut Prakarn) at the time being until the settlement on the issue of going across BMA Border has been solved.

Don't the Red, Purple and Blue go over the BMA border? Or do you mean because it is BMA funded it cannot?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Ther Red lien commuter, Purple line and Blue RIng belongs to Central Government so it can go across BKK Border.

The Skytrain Extension belogn to BMA (local government) so it cannot easily go across the Border

[TGunner]

K. Wisarut, I don't quite get this part, "Red line commuter (Red line commuter (Bangsue - Makkasan - Hua Mark) )"...thought they would only have to link it upto Phayathai station. You know why they said, Bangsue - Makkasan - Hua Mark?

A bit confusing to me. (But great news nonetheless.) I'd love to know what their plans for the other lines too (Red line to mahachai...the rest of the purple line, the yellow line, the brown line and the pink line..etc.) Or they would leave all those to the future government?

[Wisarut]

For the case of Overlapping section, It's SRT long wish list to put DMU on elevated tracks ...

[TGunner]

For the case of Overlapping section, It's SRT long wish list to put DMU on elevated tracks ...

Ahh I see. Thanks krab K. Wisarut. That's a great idea. That will definietly help with the traffic where the railways and roads intersect.

[TGunner]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/06Mar2007_news11.php

SRT 'ready to accept bids for Red Line'
Construction forecast to start in October

AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

The State Railway of Thailand has set conditions for building the 15km Red Line rapid transit railway from Bang Sue to Taling Chan and is ready to accept bids from contractors, an SRT source said. Construction, expected to cost 12 billion baht, is forecast to start in October and to be completed in three years.

The terms of reference, open to both local and foreign bids, have gone to Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen who will submit them to the cabinet for approval.

If approved, the SRT will invite tenders through an electronic auction system next month, the source said.

The route is to have three stations. It will be elevated from the Bang Sue station, then run on the ground from Bang Bamru station to Taling Chan station.

For financing, the SRT will issue bonds guaranteed by the Finance Ministry.

The SRT will take tough action to evict people who live along the route, the source said, adding that it will not tolerate any delays in preparing construction sites, like those encountered along the Airport Link railway which will link the inner city with Suvarnabhumi airport in two years.

When the Red Line from Bang Sue to Taling Chan is complete, the SRT will have a wholly-owned subsidiary run the system. The subsidiary will hire outside experts for work the SRT cannot handle, such as electric train maintenance.

Meanwhile, the Mass Rapid Transit Authority (MRTA) is preparing details of two other electric railways _ the Purple Line from Bang Yai to Bang Sue, and the extended Blue Line loop from Hua Lamphong via Tha Phra to Bang Khae and from Bang Sue to Tha Phra.

MRTA chairman Kriangsak Lohachala said the two lines are estimated to cost a total of 81.7 billion baht.

The Purple Line will be built first, he said. Details of the line will be finished in four months and construction should start this year.

:)

[TGunner]

Uh Oh...people, really bad news from Chalongphob, the new minister of finance. He wants to cut down the mass transit projects to just two lines citing the short term of the current gov't and too much burden for the future gov't as reasons. NOOOOOOOOOO!

Didn't the public sector just urge the gov't to build all five lines to stimulate the ailing economy? What's Chalongphob thinking? I hope he will change his mind!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[The Enforcer!]

I hope he will change his mind

Most of this government's decisions have been u-turned within days!

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Anyone else here tired of all the perpetual flip-flopping?

Seems the only thing that's constant (with this and the previous government) is the inconstancy.

[Wisarut]

It's a tendency for Ministry of Finance to dewnsize the projects ... to minimize the impact of budget constrains. The other option is to increase the tax whcih is definitely unpopular decision ANYWAY

[TGunner]

Hopefully he will come to his senses after he talks with Theera. I'm sick of all these flipfloppings and mixed signals from the government. How can any potential investors be confident with this kind of daily u-turns from the gov't?

I also don't understand why all the ministers just can't keep their mouths shut while they still need to discuss matters with each other. Why keep sending all kinds of different signals to the public when there's still no coherent final resolution? It's really frustrating to see this happen again and again. Whatever they announce, I'll never get my hopes up again. These people were supposed to be really experienced and know better. Chalongphob impressed me a great deal today. :( Ahh..anyway I guess my rant is over for now. :mad: :p

[Wisarut]

They want yto show that they would NOT continue the policy of predecessors no matter how good hte policy is ... they just want to show that they are not the slave of the predecessorrs even though the public will consider such a person as an IDIOT.

[The Enforcer!]

Most of this government's decisions have been u-turned within days!

The Enforcer!

Green light again for five transit projects

(BangkokPost.com -Breaking News 1138) - The government has reversed once again, and now plans to go ahead with all five mass transit rail lines in Bangkok, Deputy Prime Minister and Industry Minister Kosit Panpiemras said Thursday.

Quelle Surprise!

The Enforcer!

[Nekochan]

Can anyone confirm the report that Thai government scrapped the Megaprojects?

A friend of mine working in Purple Line North Project said they crapped the project today. I think they did for all 5 lines.:confused:

Added: Green Line from Morchit - Sapan Mai will go ahead, I think.

Even MRTA was granted some JBIC loan, they could not go ahead. That means..Thailand is really broke??

So, that was my question few months ago. Where is the money?

[TGunner]

Can anyone confirm the report that Thai government scrapped the Megaprojects?

A friend of mine working in Purple Line North Project said they crapped the project today. I think they did for all 5 lines.:confused:

Added: Green Line from Morchit - Sapan Mai will go ahead, I think.

Even MRTA was granted some JBIC loan, they could not go ahead. That means..Thailand is really broke??

So, that was my question few months ago. Where is the money?

I read it on Dailynews today that the gov't is reviewing the contract they are supposed to sign with the company that will supervise the construction of the purple line. They want more transparency and want to make sure that thing will go smoothly without a hitch later on. This might be a source of confusion for your friend. I hope all the five lines will still go ahead as planned...

Anyway, here's a piece of news about the five lines from today's the Nation:

Siemens ready for five routes

German-based Siemens is ready to bid jointly for the extension of five electric-rail routes, says Lothar Herrmann, president and CEO in charge of Thailand, Cambodia and Burma.

"The company is in talks with many local firms to jointly establish a business alliance, but whom we will be participating with has not been concluded yet," he said, adding that it would depend on the bidding conditions from the government.

Herrmann is confident that the extension of the electric-rail projects will go ahead, because Bangkok is a big city in which convenient mass-transit systems are needed. Considered one of the world's leading international suppliers to the railway industry, Siemens is ready to support the projects.

Herrmann said the company had supplied electric-train facilities to other projects in Bangkok, such as the Skytrain and the subway, as well as the Airport Rail Link project expected to open over the next few years.

He said Siemens was also studying the feasibility of constructing an electric-train-carrier assembly plant in Thailand.

"If the company won the bidding for any electric-rail route project, it would still be interested in setting up an electric-train-carrier assembly plant in Thailand. This is aimed at using some of the local raw materials in the country, " said Herrmann.

In addition, he said the company had invested in training 400 staff in repair and maintenance of transport systems. "In the future, Siemens will invest more in technology transfer," he said.

Herrmann said it was possible to have an electric-train-carrier assembly plant in Thailand, depending on support from the government, as well as business allies and favourable returns. "If all factors are favourable, the company will make a decision to invest," he said......

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/03/22/business/business_30029910.php


The last (highlighted) part really excites me! That would be awesome!! (Though I could sense that it's a negotiation ploy by Siemens to ensure that they will be the sole provider of the train system. Still. It would be awesome! It could mean that there would be even more construction for the expansions and the new lines!)

[Nekochan]

Perhaps, I should have used "halted the megaprojects", since no one has changed the master plan. But I still have a feeling that the government does not have the money.

Initially, JBIC did not want to grant any loan. Then they said "OK", but increased the interest rate from 0.75% - 1.50% (if I remembered that right). Purple Line was MRTA's top priority for bidding in June. PCI came in....with lots of expats. After a few weeks, I was informed that everything was stopped.

When it comes to public information (sort of), Sorayuth's admin performs very poorly. Think about buying back the aging Thaicom3, Singaporians have spied on Thailand, new year bombs by Thaksin's supporters....

I will wait for 2-3 months to see this. If nothing happens, it means they are buying time until the next election.

[The Enforcer!]

Shall we wager on no new Mass Transit project contracts being signed in 2007?

The Enforcer!

[Nekochan]

Now, it seems the projects are back! I think it has something to do with FTA agreement with Japan. Some journalists said Japan had held the loan until Thailand complied.

Detail? I do not know.

Purple Line North will go for bidding first, followed by 2 Blue lines.

When? Must check newspaper.:D

[TGunner]

MASS-TRANSIT FUNDING
Officials confident of getting JBIC loan

Finance Ministry believes contract with Japanese agency will be signed in May

The Finance Ministry and the Japan Bank for International Co-operation (JBIC) are expected to conclude a loan agreement to finance mass-transit projects in Bangkok next month.

Despite reports that JBIC was reluctant to extend loans to the Thai government due to the political situation and other issues, officials at the Finance Ministry are confident that a contract is in the offing.

"We have repaid previous JBIC loans, and the bank has ample liquidity, so we think that JBIC will give us the loan," said an official.

The official said that a loan from JIBC would be cheaper since JBIC charged the lowest interest in the domestic or US market.

JIBC also offers loans of up to 30 years. The interest rate if converted into a baht loan currently would be about 2.7 per cent.

The Finance Ministry plans to borrow US$300 million (Bt10.5 billion) in the first batch.

JBIC's representatives are expected to come to Bangkok next month to discuss the terms.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/23/business/business_30032431.php

[TGunner]

Apparently the gov't has aksed the BMA to delay the BTS exteion plans....so I guess we will be really lucky to see any electric train route get off the ground within this year. Man, I am not optimistic. The only thing I've been hearing from them is one delay after another. I won't be surprised if they also have already secretly decided to shelf the Bang Sue-Rangit and Bang Sue Makasan lines. :mad: :mad: :(

[TGunner]

http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/nws/scripts/hotnewskt.php?lang=th&newsid=257524&type=ktbu

คลังเผยญี่ปุ่นยืนยันเข้าประเมินปล่อยกู้รถไฟฟ้ า 28 พ.ค.นี้

นายพงษ์ภาณุ เสวตรุนทร์ ผู้อำนวยการสำนักงานบริหารหนี้สาธารณะ (สบน.) เปิดเผยถึงความคืบหน้าในการเจรจาเงินกู้กับในโครงการ รถไฟฟ้า 3 สายกับตัวแทนรัฐบาลญี่ปุ่นว่า รัฐบาลญี่ปุ่นยืนยันจะส่งคณะรัฐบาลหรือ Government Mission มาประเมินโครงการเงินกู้รถไฟฟ้า 3 สายแก่ไทยในวันที่ 28 พฤษภาคมนี้ ซึ่ง สบน.ก็เตรียมสรุปภาพรวมภาวะเศรษฐกิจ รวมทั้งแผนความคืบหน้าโครงการรถไฟฟ้า 3 สายด้วย

ทั้งนี้ในการหารือรัฐมนตรีคลังของไทย และรัฐทมนตรีคลังญี่ปุ่น รวมทั้งคณะ เมื่อครั้งไปประชุมประจำปี สภาผู้ว่าการธนาคารพัฒนาเอเชีย ครั้งที่ 40 ที่ประเทศญี่ปุ่น ก็สำเร็จด้วยดี ขณะที่ ธนาคารเพื่อความร่วมมือระหว่างประเทศแห่งรัฐบาลญี่ปุ ่น หรือเจบิค ก็ได้ผ่อนปรนเงื่อนไขการกู้เงินโดยจะลดอัตราดอกเบี้ย ให้ 0.1% เหลือ 0.65% ต่อปี โดยวงเงินที่จะขอกู้สำหรับรถไฟฟ้า 3 สาย ซึ่งประกอบด้วยสายสีม่วง สายสีน้ำเงิน สายสีแดง เป็นเงิน 8.4 หมื่นล้านบาท คิดเป็นสัดส่วน 52% ของวงเงินในการก่อสร้าง 1.6 แสนล้านบาท โดยวงเงินที่เหลือจะเป็นเงินที่มาจากงบประมาณและกู้เ งินภายในประเทศ

อย่างไรก็ตาม รัฐบาลญี่ปุ่นก็มีความเป็นห่วงเรื่องผลกระทบด้านสิ่ง แวดล้อม ซึ่งรัฐบาลไทยก็เรียนไปว่าในส่วนสายสีม่วงได้ดำเนินก ารเสร็จแล้ว ส่วนอีก 2 สายก็จะเร่งให้ผู้เกี่ยวข้องดำเนินการ ก็คาดว่าจะแล้วเสร็จก่อนกำหนดการเปิดประมูล ซึ่งมั่นใจว่าจะสามารถลงนามในสัญญาการกู้เงินได้ก่อน การกำหนดการประมูลโดยการประมูลรถไฟฟ้าสายแรกมีจะในรา วเดือนสิงหาคม หลังจากGovernment Mission เข้ามาประเมิน โดยหลังการประเมินเสร็จคาดว่าจะรู้ผลได้ราวเดือนมิถุ นายน ขณะที่รถไฟฟ้าสายที่แดง จะสามารถเปิดประมูลได้ในเดือนมกราคม 2551 ส่วนสายสีน้ำเงินเปิดประมูลในเดือนกรกฎราคม 2551
...............................

JBIC has agreed to reduce the interest rate by 0.1% to 0.65% per year for the loan, and the Japanese gov't will send their gov't mission to inspect the three mass transit routes (Purple, Blue and Red lines.) The JBIC loan would account for 52% of the total cost of the mass transit projects (84 billion from JBIC out of 160 billion of the total cost.) The rest of the funding would come from the Thai gov't budget and domestic loans.

The Japanese gov't is a bit concerned about the environmental impacts of the three lines, but the Thai gov't has told them that the environmental impact study on the purple line is finished and the studies for the other two lines have been expedited and expected to be completed before the biddings take place.

The purple line is expected to be open for biddings in August of this year, while the biddings for the red line and the blue line should take place in January 2008 and July 2008 respectively.

We should know the result of the findings by the Japanese gov't mission in June.
..........................................

:fingerscrossed: I hope all this will go well as planned and without any unexpected hiccups. No more delays please. :o

[Wisarut]

Hmmmm ... JBIC Loan .... Need to allpw Ch. Karnchang/ITD and Japanese Contractors (xxxx Gumi) to handle the construction ... Furthermore, MRTA and SRT have to purchase EMUs from either ALSTOM or Japanese producers (Hitachi/Kawasaki/Nippon Sharyo/Kinki Sharyo/Tokyu Sharyo)

For the case of SRT, it is not a problem at all since the Japanese rolling stock manufacturers mentioned here are the familiar firms for SRT since 1936. :D :p ;) :)

However, it may cause soem trouble with MRTA .... Now, JBIC is going to revenge to MRTA for NOT Ordering French-Japanese rollign stocks .... :eek:

[TGunner]

Hmmmm ... JBIC Loan .... Need to allpw Ch. Karnchang/ITD and Japanese Contractors (xxxx Gumi) to handle the construction ... Furthermore, MRTA and SRT have to purchase EMUs from either ALSTOM or Japanese producers (Hitachi/Kawasaki/Nippon Sharyo/Kinki Sharyo/Tokyu Sharyo)

For the case of SRT, it is not a problem at all since the Japanese rolling stock manufacturers mentioned here are the familiar firms for SRT since 1936. :D :p ;) :)

However, it may cause soem trouble with MRTA .... Now, JBIC is going to revenge to MRTA for NOT Ordering French-Japanese rollign stocks .... :eek:

Oh... Khun Wisarut, if that's the case, I will be quite all right with it. Japanese products are usually of great quality after all.

More news from the Nation:
http://breakingnews.nationchannel.com/read.php?lang=T&newsid=257580

คมนาคม คาดเปิดประมูลรถไฟสีแดงบางซื่อ-ตลิ่งชัน ในมิ.ย.
12:57 น.
นายสรรเสริญ วงศ์ชะอุ่ม รมช.คมนาคม คาดว่า จะเปิดประมูลงานก่อสร้างโครงการรถไฟสายสีแดงเส้นทางบ างซื่อ-ตลิ่งชัน มูลค่า 1.3 หมื่นล้านบาทได้ภายในเดือนมิ.ย.นี้ คิดว่าน่าจะประกวดราคาช่วงบางซื่อ-ตลิ่งชันได้ก่อน ซึ่งมีแบบรายละเอียดอยู่แล้ว ประมาณเดือนมิถุนายนก็น่าจะประกวดราคาได้

เขากล่าวถึงเรื่องนี้ หลังเสร็จสิ้นการประชุมร่วมกับตัวแทนกระทรวงการคลัง, การรถไฟแห่งประเทศไทย(รฟท.) ซึ่งเป็นหน่วยงานเจ้าของโครงการรถไฟสายสีแดง และสำนักนโยบายและแผนการขนส่งและจราจร (สนข.)

นายสรรเสริญ กล่าวด้วยว่า สำหรับโครงการรถไฟฟ้าสายสีม่วง ยังคงคาดว่าจะเปิดประมูลได้ในเดือนส.ค. ขณะที่โครงการรถไฟฟ้าสายสีน้ำเงิน จะเสนอให้คณะรัฐมนตรี(ครม.)พิจารณาได้ในเดือนก. ค.-ส.ค.นี้

ขณะที่โครงการรถไฟฟ้าสายสีเขียว เฉพาะเส้นทางหมอชิต-สะพานใหม่ คาดว่าจะเสนอให้ครม.พิจารณาได้ในเดือนมิ.ย.นี้
.........

Bangue-Taling Chan section will be open for bidding in June. (WOW! Really?)
The bidding for the purple line will take place in August (as earlier reported.)
The Blue line will get considered by the cabinet around July-August. (Not sure what this means really... Hmmm... Pretty vague...)
And Mochit-Sapan Mai section will be submitted to the cabinet for the consideration in June. (Nice....I don't know what this means either. How many times do all these lines have to be approved by the cabinet? Hmmm.)


Cheers krab! :)

[Yappofloyd]

Slightly strange editorial insofar as there is a complete failure to mention the politics around Apiraks pet projects of the BTS Taksin ext & On Nut ext and no mention of BRT. Although there is one ref to "mass Transit" one would think that some extra context of the importance of specific mass transit in reducing traffic and vested interests opposing public transport would give some extra beef to this editorial.

EDITORIAL Bold initiatives for Bangkok Bkk Post 23/06/07
No one ever need wonder about Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin's favourite colour after the events of the past six weeks. It was no coincidence that a spate of policy initiatives designed to reduce the size of the capital's carbon footprint came after he had firmly established his green credentials at a gathering of 40 big-city mayors in New York in mid-May.

That was preceded by his stewardship here of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change conference. Quickly following that was the signing of the Bangkok Declaration on May 9, which committed the city administration to combatting global warming, reducing energy consumption, greenhouse gas emissions and raising awareness about the impact of rising global temperatures.

This was no passing fad. A month later, Governor Apirak did what national governments are supposed to do and set a target to reduce carbon emissions in the capital by 15% over the next five years. This was a bold, if rather optimistic, political "first", which he hopes to achieve by planting more trees, retro-fitting buildings with more energy-efficient lighting and cooling systems, encouraging car pools, developing renewable energy sources, improving and expanding mass transit systems and by banning driver-only vehicles from entering areas with heavy traffic congestion. Such vehicles will need a minimum number of passengers. This measure is certain to be even more unpopular than car pools and just as difficult to enforce. Previous attempts have been embarrassing flops, although the logic is sound.

What alarms Governor Apirak the most, and has won him the support of the Clinton Foundation, is the rise in Bangkok's average temperature of two degrees in the past four decades, which means that the capital is responsible for about 24% of the country's greenhouse gas emissions. He obviously cares about this and his fellow citizens should share his concern, but human nature being what it is, this concern might stop short of willingness to actually make the kind of painful sacrifices necessary to stop the rot. Mr Apirak has a valid point in blaming traffic but he is overlooking another factor contributing in no small measure to the overheating of Bangkok. And that is the legacy of the haphazard approach taken in recent decades by his predecessors to urban planning. True, he has introduced a comprehensive city plan which should ensure that no one in a residential area suddenly finds a slaughterhouse opening for business next door to them, but he cannot undo the considerable damage already done.

People battle this daily while trying to negotiate traffic-clogged streets interspersed with a never-ending profusion of shopping malls and a lack of adequate parking space. And they are in no hurry to see the growth of still more towering concrete monstrosities which trap the hot and polluted air in the streets. Unless we make future planning approvals contingent on strict environmental criteria, we will doom ourselves to live in a hot, humid and soulless concrete jungle with all the loss of character, identity and individuality that entails.

Instead of more parks we see construction projects relentlessly encroaching on the fun tourist attractions of the Suan Lum night bazaar and Chatuchak Park among others. The car plague must take its share of the blame for climate change, but turning our streets into concrete canyons has not been without repercussions. Contrary to public relations hype, it has not made them tourist attractions. Those are falling victim to the wrecking ball.

Governor Apirak's master plan will take final form in August. But as he works on his grand design, he must not overlook the more mundane aspect of running a big city. Futuristic schemes such as arranging for taxis to use global positioning systems; introducing "smart" bus stops to tell commuters when a bus is coming; "smart" traffic signs to tell drivers where traffic is backed up and "smart" pedestrian crossings are well and good. But let us not forget more down to earth matters such as pollution, petty crime, poverty, food hygiene at roadside vendor stalls, flood prevention and traffic calming. It is these less glamorous issues that elections are usually won or lost by, and Governor Apirak's bid for re-election is less than 15 months away. So far he has done nothing he need regret.

[Yappofloyd]

Roll up, roll up - place your bets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Enforcer!
Who wants a bet that, outside of the BMA funded Taksin extension, and the Airport Link, that NOT ONE MILLIMETRE of new Mass Transit railway is laid in 2006.

The Enforcer!
I wrote this on 31.12.05, and it seems that for 2006 I was sadly correct - anyone willling to bet this will be the situation in 2007 as well?

The Enforcer!

Khun Enforcer, your words were indeed prophetic!

On the same thread I had wished for at least two lines to begin construction by the end of 2006 but alas....

However I am willing to go out on a limb, in a big way I might add, and be proved wrong again and make the same wish. (Shall we say dinner at the Bangkok establishment of the winners choosing?)

Who knows, I may even contribute financially and buy some steel to get a couple of feet of new railway line laid should 2007 be yet another year of wasted opportunity!:rolleyes:

Khun Enforcer, I had to go way back in this thread (post #36 & #37) to find this. I think that I may owe you dinner.

Actually the BTS On Nut ext did start this year but the other lines which should have been tendered in April and May have not even got to that stage so you have been correct yet again.

[GWR]

http://www.metroland.org/images/metroland/met01.jpg
Competition rises for condos on electric rail

BANGKOK, Oct 15 (TNA) – The 17th House and Condo Fair ended Sunday with a flurry of success as some 70,000-80,000 members of the public visited the event with many showing interest in buying commercial buildings and condominiums located along routes where electric mass transit rail projects are to be implemented.

Issara Boonyoung, chairman of the organising committee of the event, said it is expected a purchasing amount in the fair would reach around Bt3 billion, equal to that of the previous year.

About half the visitors had paid great attention to commercial buildings and condominiums since most projects are located along routes where the electric mass transit projects will be implemented and there is convenient access.

He said although the public's purchasing power has fallen due to the economic slowdown and higher cost of living, many factors -- including the political situation and the electric train construction scheme began to become clear.

These factors coupled with the low interest rate had encouraged people to decide on home purchases. He suggested the government restructure property taxes as a whole if it wanted to see the property sector recover and help stimulate the economy.

Currently, he said, property developers had carried very high burdens of taxes and various fees. In addition, developers wanted government to extend the reduction of the special business tax and the mortgage rate fee to 0.01 per cent for another year since the relaxation is due to end this year, he said. (TNA)-E005

Last Update : 2007-10-15 / 15:42:03 (GMT+7:00)
http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=32201

Related post on similar 'Metroland' fever in Malaysia's Selangor State:
http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=15002&postcount=99

[TGunner]

Roll up, roll up - place your bets!





Khun Enforcer, I had to go way back in this thread (post #36 & #37) to find this. I think that I may owe you dinner.

Actually the BTS On Nut ext did start this year but the other lines which should have been tendered in April and May have not even got to that stage so you have been correct yet again.

The red line, Bang Sue - Taling Chang, is being tendered right now. And actually ten companies already have tendered their bids. The decision is expeted to be made by SRT in a few months from now (from what I understand.)

[The Enforcer!]

I think that I may owe you dinner.
Very kind indeed but it was virtually a sure bet so I will not collect!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

Extract from Post article on Ch. Karnchang.

Ch. Karnchang to grow in region 14/01/08
''But this year would be better as the new government is expected to kick off mass transit projects to drive economic growth,'' said Mr Prasert. ''And they must do it as construction projects could generate a huge multiplier effect to the economy, especially employment.''

The government has announced plans to spend 150 billion baht on five rail projects around Bangkok. CK plans to join in bidding for two rail projects likely to be launched this year with a combined value of 80 billion baht, Mr Prasert said. Bidding terms for the elevated Purple Line, worth 30 billion baht, are scheduled to be released for bidding this month, while the 50-billion-baht Blue Line will follow later this year.

''With our experience of more than 10 years in infrastructure projects, we have not seen any problem joining the bidding for these projects,'' Mr Prasert said. ''As oil prices have kept rising, these rail networks are crucial for the economy and to ease traffic by transporting people who live in the suburbs to central Bangkok.'' At present, Bangkok has three rail lines _ two elevated and one underground, carrying 600,000 passengers a day. By expanding the network, the government hopes to boost traffic to eventually reach one million people daily.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/14Jan2008_biz21.php - Note: link will expire in one week

[GWR]

MRTA favours BMCL for line
Published on January 16, 2008

The Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand (MRTA) will propose the government award the extended Blue Line urban rail-network concession to Bangkok Metro (BMCL).

MRTA director Kamropluck Suraswadi said yesterday that from the agency's study, if BMCL were awarded the concession for the routes - Hualamphong-Bang Khae and Bang Sue-Tha Phra - the cost would be 20-per-cent lower than that of other contractors.

BMCL currently operates the subway, which runs from Hualamphong to Bang Sue.

Kamropluck said if a new concessionaire were to be chosen, it would need to invest in all facilities as well as the ticketing system, and the construction cost would as a result rise by Bt3 billion.

He said if BMCL operated the entire route, it would also mean greater convenience for commuters.


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/01/16/business/business_30062416.php

[GWR]

Utterly ridiculous! Three years of absolute traffic chaos that will do little else other than fill the pockets of greedy bastards. This will then be followed by a period in which hardly anyone uses the new systems. They are hard pushed to get decent PAX numbers on the Skytrain and Underground as it is. People have to get used to using these systems gradually with a sure but steady growth of the network. We will end up with another catastrophe of sloppy and skimped work even bigger than the SBIA fiasco, only to see lines that few people will use initially. Probably five at once was also too many. Nine is just flat-out pig-headed, irresponsible and greedy!:mad:

MASS TRANSIT
PM: Cabinet approves train development tomorrow
Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said the Cabinet will approve the development of the 9 urban train route development, which is slated for completion in 3 years.

"The development plan could be slightly altered, but all the planned lines would be kicked off starting with the Purple Line," he said at the conference with civil servants on Monday.

He said that a special committee would be established to oversee the development.

To finance the development, aside from loans from Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC), the Finance Ministry could issue bonds worth Bt300-Bt500 billion. With interest rate of 4-5 per cent, Samak is confident that the bonds would be warmly welcomed by domestic savers.

Aside from the urban train development, the government would also push forward the construction of the double-rail train.

Samak also highlighted the possibility that the government would acquire a stake in Bangkok Mass Transit System Plc (BTS), by having the Finance Ministry purchase the company's 89 per cent shares from foreign creditors. He insisted that the procedure would not affect BTS concession.

- The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/02/25/business/business_30066389.php

[TGunner]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/02/25/business/business_30066389.php

HAHAHahha...I believe that it's more likely that I'd see a pig fly than these nine routes completed in three years. Typical pie in the sky PR bullshit by these crooks.

[GWR]

This article indicates the projects will be split up into two phases, but it doesn't give a timing for each. So I imagine that we can deduce from previous posts that Phase 1 will last three years:

POST FORUM: B700 bln for rail projects

BangkokPost.com
The government plans to spend big for the construction of nine mass transit rail projects, Transport Minister Santi Prompat said at Post Forum on Monday evening.

According to Mr Santi, the nine routes, which will link central Bangkok to outskirts, will be developed in two stages -- five routes are planned to be completed in the first phase while four others are expected to be completed in the second phase.

A budget of 280 billion baht is planned for the first phase while the cost for the second phase is estimated at 420 billion baht, he said.

The cabinet is to approve the projects at its weekly meeting tomorrow.

He added that the government also plans to improve quality of life for the people living in the capital by developing mass transit systems to encourage people to use public transportation in order to alleviate traffic problems.

More public transportation will be offered to transport people living out of town to subway or skytrain stations and from the stations to their residences, he said.


Link may expire:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=126145

[TGunner]

This article indicates the projects will be split up into two phases, but it doesn't give a timing for each. So I imagine that we can deduce from previous posts that Phase 1 will last three years:


Link may expire:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/topstories.php?id=126145

It's the nigh on impossibility of finishing ONE SINGLE line three years from now, so how the heck are they gonna finish "phase one" in three years? This is just an absurd blatant lie.

It's just like when their boss (who's coming back to the country in a couple of days) announced he would solve Bangkok's traffic problems in six months during his reign as the interior minister of Chavalit administration. Absurd pie in the sky PR crap.

[Wisarut]

New lines with a price tag of nearly 700 Billion Baht
Thai Post - 25 Feb 2008

Mr. Santi (MOT) said he will have full committement for the first 5 lines initiated by the Old ginger Government which can be listed as follows:

1. Red line commuter: Talingchan - Bangsue - Rangsit - Makkasan with a price tag of 105.9 billion Baht
2. Purple line: Bangyai - Bangsue -> 54.8 billion Baht
3. Blue Ring: Bangsue - Tha Phra - Hua Lampahong 58.2 billion Baht
(No section from Tha Phra to Bang Khae at the time being)
4. Paknam extension: Bearing - Samut Prakarn 24.6 billion Baht
5. Phaholyothin extension: Mochit - Saphan Mai 30.7 billion Baht

These 5 lines have reached the point that PPP will have no hope to win the new election from BKK voters as well as investors asnd unless they have started the construction and approving the funds for these 5 lines initiated by the old Ginger ... a calssing case of the intiiator and the one who finis the project are not the same person.

For the case fo 9 Neww lines of Samak, it can be classified as follows:

1. Hua Lamphong - Mahachai 53.5 billion Baht -> need negotiation and connection with Crown Property bureau since the line will have to pass through Si Phraya area which belongs to Crown Property bureau .. to ensure approval for this section

2. Donmueang - Rangsit (Rangsit extension of BTS to win popular votes by pickign up regular passenger at Future Park, Major Rangsit, Si Mum Mueang market) - 12.6 billion Baht

3. Saphan Mai - Lam lookka (Lam Lookka extension) to please Samak as well as RTAF since his men has real estate deal aroudn Lam Lookka area. - 16.4 billion Baht

4. Bang Wah - Phutthamonthon (New extension of BTS after transferring the section fo Blue line from Tha Phra to Bang Khae to BTS) - 20 billion Baht

5. Bang Na - Bang Plee -> the line to Southern terminal of Suvannabhum to please Samut Prakarn voters as well as those who work and study along Bang bang Pakogn highway - 8.2 billion Baht (! -> at Graded line?!)
6. Salaya - Minburi -> the expanded Orange line beyond Bang Kapi and bang Bumru - 109.400 billion Baht ... passing near Chitladda palace
7. Bangsue - dao Khanong (the SOuthern section fo Purple line) ... need connection to Sukhothai Palace - 52.9 billion Baht
8. Gold Ring - Bang na -Bang Wah - Bang Na -> almost the same as the ring line initiated when Samak was BMA governor - 140.2 billion Baht

9. Wat Yai - fort Chulachomklao - 7.5 billion Baht (Another at Graded line)

The lines which will be tagged alogn the 5 lines of the old Ginger are

1. Donmueang - Rangsit (Rangsit extension of BTS to win popular votes by pickign up regular passenger at Future Park, Major Rangsit, Si Mum Mueang market) - 12.6 billion Baht

2. Bang Wah - Phtthamonthon (New extension of BTS after transferring the section fo Blue line from Tha Phra to Bang Khae to BTS) - 20 billion Baht

3. Salaya - Minburi (the expanded Orange line beyond Bang Kapi and bang Bumru - 109.400 billion Baht ... passing near Chitladda palace)

Total cost of The 9 lines by Samak: 420.2Billion Baht
Total cost of The 9 lines by Samak + 5 lines by the old Ginger: 695 Billion Baht (!)

Now, Minitry of Finance and JBIC is drafting the loan contract for the first batch of JBIC loan at 18 billion Baht (from total loan of 33 billion Baht). The contract will have to be issued year by year ... and Wayuphak Funds 2 will cover the rest ... of Ministry of Energy refused to allow Ministry of Finnace to meddle on energy funds.

[The Enforcer!]

So the unneeded Red lines are back on the schedule ... how sad.

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

^I was also surprised to read this article returning on a plane last night. The Red Lines are back?!? I do think they are useful if they are electric, standrad guage and intergrated into the other lines (which currently it seems the SRT is not proposing).

All rather confusing as there was no mention of them in the Samak 9 line plan. But we have the new Transport Minister announcing on Monday at the Post Forum that the Red Lines will be bid this yea along with the Purple.

So really the new 9 line Samak pet policy is really 11 lines (with the two Red Lines). I make it that 7 lines are intended to be bid this year (Purple, 2 Red, Blue, BTS Mo Chit Ext, BTS Bearing Ext and ???).:confused:

And if the Rangsit Red goes ahead it really does seem to be a duplication to propose a BTS ext to Future Park.

Bids for 3 train routes to be called this year - AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK Bkk Post 26/02/08
Tenders for three new train routes will be called this year as part of a 700-billion-baht plan to develop the nine mass transit lines covering about 300 kilometres in greater Bangkok. Transport Minister Santi Prompat said the three routes will be the Purple Line running from Bang Sue to Bang Yai in Nonthaburi, the Red Line from Bang Sue to Taling Chan and the Red Line from Bang Sue to Rangsit.

He was speaking at Post Forum 2008 at a Bangkok hotel. About 700 billion baht would be invested in construction, with 520 billion baht drawn from the state budget. Private investors would be asked to put the other 170 billion baht on the operating systems for the trains.

The nine routes proposed by Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej will have a total length of 350 kilometres. Construction of the first five routes, costing an estimated 280 billion baht, would hopefully begin this year, he said. If all goes as planned, construction of the other four routes, costing about 420 billion baht, would start next year. Land expropriation, network design, and an environmental impact assessment study, would have to be completed first.

The mega-project would take six years to complete and all the routes were expected to begin serving commuters in 2013, Mr Santi said. The network design would be based on the idea of thinning out the densely populated centre of Bangkok, moving city residents to outer areas, he said. The route extensions would also provide low-income earners in surrounding areas with the opportunity to use the subway.

Mr Santi said mass transit centres at the final stops of each route would be built to connect commuters to other kinds of transport. The ministry also plans to develop river and canal routes to reduce the expensive costs of road transport. At least four million people were expected to use the services in the first year alone when the extensions are completed in 2013.

Mr Santi said investment funds would be drawn from many sources, including through the issuance of debentures by Krung Thai Bank to finance the construction work, and low-interest loans from the Japan Bank for International Co-operation (JBIC). He said even China had expressed an interest in investing in the project. Mass Rapid Transit Authority (MRTA) Prapat Chongsanguan said JBIC had agreed to extend loans to finance the Purple Line from Bang Sue to Bang Yai.

He said the ministry also had a policy to increase other modes of transport, apart from vehicle transport, aimed at reducing the logistic costs of the country. Presently, about 86% of the country's transportation was by road vehicle, with about12% water transport, about 2% rail and 0.9% air transport. This is resulted in high logistic costs, totalling up to 16% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP). The energy price hike would increase the country's logistic costs unless its transport structure was changed.

Mr Santi said the Transport Ministry's target was to reduce the logistic costs to 13% through the promotion of more rail and water transport. It had a plan to also lay double tracks for trains extending over 832 kilometres nationwide. Mr Santi said the ministry would develop a land bridge linking transport from Andaman coast to the Gulf of Thailand in the South. The project required about 400 billion baht in investment. The private sector would be invited to bid for the project.

[Wisarut]

^I was also surprised to read this article returning on a plane last night. The Red Lines are back?!? I do think they are useful if they are electric, standrad guage and intergrated into the other lines (which currently it seems the SRT is not proposing).

All rather confusing as there was no mention of them in the Samak 9 line plan. But we have the new Transport Minister announcing on Monday at the Post Forum that the Red Lines will be bid this yea along with the Purple.

So really the new 9 line Samak pet policy is really 11 lines (with the two Red Lines). I make it that 7 lines are intended to be bid this year (Purple, 2 Red, Blue, BTS Mo Chit Ext, BTS Bearing Ext and ???).:confused:

And if the Rangsit Red goes ahead it really does seem to be a duplication to propose a BTS ext to Future Park.

Bids for 3 train routes to be called this year - AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK Bkk Post 26/02/08
Tenders for three new train routes will be called this year as part of a 700-billion-baht plan to develop the nine mass transit lines covering about 300 kilometres in greater Bangkok. Transport Minister Santi Prompat said the three routes will be the Purple Line running from Bang Sue to Bang Yai in Nonthaburi, the Red Line from Bang Sue to Taling Chan and the Red Line from Bang Sue to Rangsit.

He was speaking at Post Forum 2008 at a Bangkok hotel. About 700 billion baht would be invested in construction, with 520 billion baht drawn from the state budget. Private investors would be asked to put the other 170 billion baht on the operating systems for the trains.

The nine routes proposed by Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej will have a total length of 350 kilometres. Construction of the first five routes, costing an estimated 280 billion baht, would hopefully begin this year, he said. If all goes as planned, construction of the other four routes, costing about 420 billion baht, would start next year. Land expropriation, network design, and an environmental impact assessment study, would have to be completed first.

The mega-project would take six years to complete and all the routes were expected to begin serving commuters in 2013, Mr Santi said. The network design would be based on the idea of thinning out the densely populated centre of Bangkok, moving city residents to outer areas, he said. The route extensions would also provide low-income earners in surrounding areas with the opportunity to use the subway.

Mr Santi said mass transit centres at the final stops of each route would be built to connect commuters to other kinds of transport. The ministry also plans to develop river and canal routes to reduce the expensive costs of road transport. At least four million people were expected to use the services in the first year alone when the extensions are completed in 2013.

Mr Santi said investment funds would be drawn from many sources, including through the issuance of debentures by Krung Thai Bank to finance the construction work, and low-interest loans from the Japan Bank for International Co-operation (JBIC). He said even China had expressed an interest in investing in the project. Mass Rapid Transit Authority (MRTA) Prapat Chongsanguan said JBIC had agreed to extend loans to finance the Purple Line from Bang Sue to Bang Yai.

He said the ministry also had a policy to increase other modes of transport, apart from vehicle transport, aimed at reducing the logistic costs of the country. Presently, about 86% of the country's transportation was by road vehicle, with about12% water transport, about 2% rail and 0.9% air transport. This is resulted in high logistic costs, totalling up to 16% of the country's gross domestic product (GDP). The energy price hike would increase the country's logistic costs unless its transport structure was changed.

Mr Santi said the Transport Ministry's target was to reduce the logistic costs to 13% through the promotion of more rail and water transport. It had a plan to also lay double tracks for trains extending over 832 kilometres nationwide. Mr Santi said the ministry would develop a land bridge linking transport from Andaman coast to the Gulf of Thailand in the South. The project required about 400 billion baht in investment. The private sector would be invited to bid for the project.


MRTA and BTS are using 750 VDC ... but SRT plan for electrification is 25000 V AC ... just electrification issue alone .. is totally DIFFERENT .... incompatible due to the different need!

[Nekochan]

If you see a map of Mr. Samak's 9 MRT lines, it is ... a piece of (oh! you know the word). Expect he drew it while in toilet at home. It came with no references, operations, and blah blah blah.

Oh! they want to build all 300 km within 3 years? London has roughly 300 km of MRT network and it started in late 19th century! Today's London network took more than a century to implement!!

Middle class Thais may be a little bit excited, it is another form of populist policies (why blame glass root people?)

But considering Mr. Santhi is the Transportation Minister, you may presume that Mr. Samak sent a messege to anyone who wanted to interfere.

That is...Samak is in charge. (Indeed he is the Defence Minister?)

[The Enforcer!]

London has roughly 300 km of MRT network and it started in late 19th century! Today's London network took more than a century to implement!!
It is actually 401 km, most of which was constructed from 1863 to 1926 with another burst 1946-48 but I get your point - it could not have been done in three years!!

The really sad thing, however, is not the time but the lack of 'interchanges' - London's Undeground was built by different companies competing so few lines interchanged. Bangkok had the golden opportunity as it was starting from scratch to ensure 100% interchangability and yet the first two lines do not interchange at all! [Sorry but walking 200m overground from Si-Lom to Sala Daeng can hardly be called an interchange].

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Now, teh contract for the first batch of 3-year loan from JBIC of 18 billion Baht is about to be signed up ...

JBIC has promised that if Thai govenremnt is a good debtor by keep payign interest and principles on time and to the thign in Japanese favors, JBIC woudl approve 700 billion Baht loan to finance the 9 mass transit lines in BKK.

This implication stated that if Thai government approved Japanese contractors (which Thai contactors have established the connections), Japanese Suppliers (Hitachi, Nippon Sharyo, Nippon Steel, or so) and Japanese consultants, the Japanese loan will go on and on ....

[GWR]

Now, teh contract for the first batch of 3-year loan from JBIC of 18 billion Baht is about to be signed up ...

JBIC has promised that if Thai govenremnt is a good debtor by keep payign interest and principles on time and to the thign in Japanese favors, JBIC woudl approve 700 billion Baht loan to finance the 9 mass transit lines in BKK.

This implication stated that if Thai government approved Japanese contractors (which Thai contactors have established the connections), Japanese Suppliers (Hitachi, Nippon Sharyo, Nippon Steel, or so) and Japanese consultants, the Japanese loan will go on and on ....

JBIC to give Bt700 billion loan for Thailand's mega projects

BANGKOK, March 7 (TNA) - The Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC) affirmed on Friday it was ready to grant a Bt700 billion loan to finance Thailand's mega projects.

Speaking after talking to a senior JBIC official, Transport Minister Santi Prompat said the Japanese agency would grant a loan for nine electric train extention routes.

Other countries have also shown interested in extending loans for the Thai government's mega projects, he said, adding that the Ministry of Finance would accept loans from the source giving the best offer.

JBIC is also interested in giving Bt5.6 billion in loans to the Thai government for the second-phase of construction at Suvarnabhumi international airport.

The Airports of Thailand Public Company Limited (AoT) plans an extension to beginning later this year to serve a rising number of passengers using the Suvarnabhumi terminal.

The final decision rests with the new AOT board to be announced March 14.

Mr. Santi said beside seeking loans from JBIC, AOT might issue new shares to finance the airport extension project.

Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand (MRTA) governor Prapat Chongsanguan said that JBIC and the MRTA will sign a contract for the first portion of a loan of Bt18 billion out of a total of Bt300 billion, for construction of the Purple Line electric rail project later this month. (TNA)-E004
http://enews.mcot.net/view.php?id=3168

[GWR]

URBAN RAIL ROUTES
France's Alstom enters the bidding
Published on March 13, 2008

France's Alstom is ready to compete with Siemens of Germany and Canada's Bombardier in supplying train carriages for all nine proposed urban rail routes, particularly the first to be constructed: the Purple Line.

Transparent bidding will ensure standard and fairly priced train systems for Thailand, Marc Chatelard, senior vice president for the Asia-Pacific at Alstom Transport and country president for Alstom Singapore, told a press conference yesterday.

Chatelard is confident Alstom's technology is competitive and gave assurances there would be no connection problems, even though all existing Bangkok Skytrain and subway trains are operated by Siemens' carriages and signalling system.

"Several countries opt for several suppliers. Alstom is ready to transfer technology to Thailand in the way we did in South Korea," he said.

Aside from the carriage supply, Alstom has showed interest in investing in other fields, such as a train-assembly plant or maintenance facility, depending on investment conditions.

Despite a presence in Thailand since 1950, Alstom's only business in the Kingdom involves the subway system's track work and ventilation.

Separately, Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej yesterday chaired the first meeting of the mega-project committee on transportation.

Samak vowed to proceed with rail-network investment of Bt770 billion, including three extended Skytrain routes. The government will fund the infrastructure development and seek private operators for the rest.

The Public Debt Management Office estimates the government will need to spend Bt553 billion on infrastructure, with the private sector contributing the other Bt217 billion. Some of the funds will be raised domestically through 30-year bonds starting next month.

The government will also pursue a plan to take control of Skytrain operator Bangkok Mass Transit System, which will require an additional Bt50 billion.

Watcharapong Thongrung
The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/03/13/headlines/headlines_30067990.php

[Yappofloyd]

Interesting In Brief in the Post giving some timeframes for tenders. In summary;

Red Line (Taling Chan) - winner announced next month
Purple Line- tender in April
Blue Line - tender in June
BTS Saphan Mai ext - tender in June/July
BTS Mo Chit to Samat Prakan - tender in June/July
Red Line Rangsit - tender in June/July

Of course these will change but I was surprised that Taling Chan will be announced next month and that the Blue Line seems to have finally progressed even with the Samak routing change.

New Train Routes - Go Ahead Bkk Post 11/03/08
All six new skytrain routes will go ahead this year, at an estimated cost of 270billion baht, Transport Minister Santi Prompat confirmed yesterday. Tender documents for the Purple Line from Bang Yai to Bang Sue will go on sale early next month, and for the Blue Line from Bang Sue to Tha Phra in June.

Bidding terms for the Light Green Line connecting Mor Chit and Saphan Mai, the Dark Green from Suhumvit 107 to Samut Prhan, and the Red Line from Rangsit to Bang Sue will be out in June and July. The winner of the bidder for the construction of the Red Line running from Bang Sue to Taling Chan would be announced next month.

[TGunner]

Taling Chan section has been tendered since Oct or Nov of last year, if my memory serves me right. The only sticking point (that has been delaying the announcement of the winner) is that the two companies that have bidded might have some qualification problems. They are suspected of colluding I think.

Also, from what I've read, the only section of the blue line that will be tendered is from Bang Sue to Ta pra. No words on Hua Lampong extention section. So I guess it's still possible that section will be scrapped by Samak.

I also wonder why no one bothers to do anything with the geen line National Stadium to Pran Nok section. I think that section is very important to boost tourism in Bangkok, and it's also not that long of a section. Why does no gov't seem to care to build it? Really frustrating and disappointing...

[The Enforcer!]

The winner of the bidder for the construction of the Red Line running from Bang Sue to Taling Chan would be announced next month.
... and the winner is

(a) A company in which the last Transport Minister has shares
(b) A company in which the last Prime Minister has shares
(c) A company in which the current Transport Minister has shares
(d) A company in which the current Prime Minister has shares
(e) Any combination of the above

Take your pick.

The Enforcer!

[TGunner]

... and the winner is

(a) A company in which the last Transport Minister has shares
(b) A company in which the last Prime Minister has shares
(c) A company in which the current Transport Minister has shares
(d) A company in which the current Prime Minister has shares
(e) Any combination of the above

Take your pick.

The Enforcer!

or

(f) A company in which the last Transport Minister's wife has shares
(g) A company in which the last Prime Minister's chauffeur has shares
(h) A company in which the current Transport Minister's housemaid has shares
(i) A company in which the current Prime Minister's son has shares
etc..etc
(j) Any combination of the above

:( :mad:

[Wisarut]

Now, AI Santi has threaten BTSC that the new extensions of BTS will become SEPARATED LINES if BTSC REFUSE to allow Nationalization process through the debt buiying of 50 Billioon Baht.

For example, No Link between Moichit station and Lad Phjrao station (in font of Hor Wang School) ... as well as NO LINk between Bearing and Samroing station ... necessitate the transhipment by feeder bus

This kind of ARME TWISTING and COERCIVE MEASURES will ONLY FUEL more and more Rages and Wrath from Bangkokians as well as Samut Prakarn People!

[GWR]

Urban train construction period shortened to 2 years
Transport Ministry earmarks to shorten the construction period for all urban train routes to two years.

The Samak government earlier said the construction works would be completed within three years, after construction contracts are sign