Nation-building & Nationalism

[GWR]

'Co-operation with and Resistance Against Japan During the War' - Field Marshal P. Phibunsongkhram
FM Phibun's Account:-
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/hist244/Phibun.html
Also the account of Phibun's wife, La-iad Phibunsongkhram:-
http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/courses/hist244/La-iad.html

[GWR]

Follow the major links in the following linked article. There are perhaps things here better left unposted. The articles speak for themselves, and it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out why they materialized in this string:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsuji_Masanobu

This is a rather mindblowing account of a Japanese 'war-dog':-

http://www.warbirdforum.com/tsuji.htm

From this account, it seems almost certain it was Tsuji who tried to enlist the support of Thai Police in Songkhla to help him cross the border into Malaya [Could this be the same story that in which there was a novel plan to smuggle Japanese soldiers across the Sadao border in a charabanc of Hat-Yai dancehall 'hostesses'?];who then came under fire from the same Police Station, despite a 'pay-off' having been organised prior to the invasion.

http://www.ean.co.uk/Bygones/History/Article/WW2/Malaya_and_Singapore/assets/images/auto_generated_images/a_Tsuji.jpg

[numpty]

the revolutionary king by warren talks about him quite a bit

there is also a singapore published book, the name escapes me, by ian ward (?) about him...

[GWR]

Thanks!

Find it more than ironic :rolleyes: that both Jim Thompson & Tsuji Masanobu (or is it the other way about?) may have fallen foul of tigers.

One wonders if it was revenge. It wouldn't have been very difficult to organize Tsuji's disappearance in a neighboring state. And his fate was almost certainly deserved. He seems to have been highly instrumental in many of the atrocities carried out in China, Burma, Malaysia & Singapore.

His Chief of Staff, Col Masanobu Tsuji, is generally believed to have been responsible for the Bataan Death March of prisoners caputred in the campaign, but it was Homma who was executed for it.

http://www.us-japandialogueonpows.org/Nelson.htm

Tsuji:-

http://www.us-japandialogueonpows.org/docs/Nelson/Tsuji%20small.jpg

Not too surprised that the 'machiavellian' Plaek eventually had flee Thailand too. Unfortunately, what replaced him was even worse. And remains so to this very day.

[GWR]

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=4862&postcount=4
The text is from "Singapore The Japanese Version" by Colonel Masanobu Tsuji who was the "Chief of Operations and Planning Staff, 25th Japanese Army. Malaya". The book is long out of print - the English translation was in 1960.

airlana

http://www.members.optushome.com.au/airlana/Thai.htm

[airlana]

Another worthwhile read is

"Thailands Durable Premier - Phibun through Three Decades 1932-1957"
by Kobkua Suwannathat ISBN 967-65-3053-0

Published by Oxford University Press, Malaysia 1995

Got mine when released at Asia Books, Chiang Mai.
Maybe now out of print??

airlana

[GWR]

From one of this site's occasional contributors (perhaps unfinished):-

http://www.geocities.com/thailandwwii/phibun.html

And on Phibun's sometime ally/adversary, Pridi Phanomyong:-

http://www.geocities.com/thailandwwii/pridi.html

[GWR]

From the 'Thailand and the Second World War 1941-1945' website created by Bangkok-based P. Klykoom, an occasional poster in this forum. We have featured PKV's site before, but a great deal of additional text and illustration has been added in the last few weeks. PKV tells me this particular article was largely composed on 'Coup Morning' - A fine time to reflect on trends in modern Thai history

I also recommend that you take a close look at the recently revised articles to the various invasion points of WW2, that are linked from the same page.

Nation-building and the Pursuit of Nationalism

Luang Phibunsongkhram's assumption of the premiership in 1939 ushered in a new era in the history of Siam. It was a five-year period characterised by accelerated modernisation and an upsurge in extremist pan-Thai nationalism, typified by the Field Marshal's nation-building – “ sang chart ” policies.

http://www.geocities.com/thailandwwii/nationalism.html

And a link to the article on 'The Japanese Invasion of Songkhla': -

http://www.geocities.com/thailandwwii/songkhla.html

[Wisarut]

Luang Phibunsonghgram assumed PM Position on December 16, 1938, but he launched the purge to Eliminate the rival (Colonel Phraya Songsuradej) along with his disciples from Schol of Warefare in Chiang Mai (in Fort kawila area) ... 18 were shot by firing squard in Bangkwang Prison while the rest went into hell on earth at Koh Tarutao and Koh Tao, includign Prince Rangsit Prayoonsak (adoped son fo Queen Sawangwatthana) ... :eek:

It is nto until 1943-945 that those poor prisons includign Prince Rangsit Prayoonsak were released from the hell in Koh Tarutao/Koh Tao

[Pkv]

You are indeed correct, Khun Wisarut (although in my defence I should add that the mistake was corrected a few hours before your posting).

;)

Wasn't Phraya Thephatsadin another inmate on Tarutao? IIRC, two of his sons were executed in 1939 as a result of the purges.

[Wisarut]

Lt. Gen. Phraya Thephassadin had been sentenced to Life Improsionment alogn with prince Rangsit ... When there was an execution of his 2 sons, the inmates refused to tell teh truth whcih hurt the old General too much ... :(

[Pkv]

Recently a poster on another forum made the following uninformed comment:

Forced Alliance? Don't forget that Thailand what a pro-fascist and pro-japanese regime with archi-fascist leaders like general Prayoon (chief of the thai version of the Hitlerjugend, called Yuwachon) or Admiral Sindhu... The Thai resistance against Japanese on 8th december 1941 was symbolic. It's not the case concerning the French Thai war and the participation of the Thai army in the invasion of Malaysia and the heavy fighting between the RTAF and the USAF in the sky of Thailand between 1943 and 1945. Thailand first objective in WW2 was to recover his "lost territories" (taken by France and Great Britain at the end of the XIXth century) and saw Japan as the lonely country able and agree to help Pibul's war objectives.

I of course was quick to write a reply, and was so pleased with it that I've decided to post it here (for no particular reason other than because I'm quite pleased with it).

1. The Phibun regime was hardly pro-Japanese. In fact, it was pro-Thai – Phibun was one extremely fickle man who acted according to his perception of national and personal interest (not that there’s any real distinction between the two). If you’d bother to read up on the crucial months of 1941 you’d find the Janus-like Phibun doing his best to court the Allies in an attempt to ward off the impending Japanese invasion while at the same time preparing to lay the groundwork for a move into the Japanese camp (should it become necessary). For example, in early December he made an impassioned argument to win support for cooperation with Japan, while on the following day he declared with the same amount of conviction his rejection of Japanese pan-Asianism.

2. Remember that in those days Fascism was very much in vogue. The leaders of the three independent nations of Asia – China, Japan, and Thailand – admired national socialism and its capability to foster the discipline needed to rapidly modernise and strengthen their countries.
Prayoon may have been half-German and leader of the Yuwachon, but it should also be remembered that the man had very little political clout (he was after all rescued from the political wilderness following the conservatives’ debacle in the early ‘30s because Phibun wanted to use him for liaison with the Germans). His advocacy for cooperation only furthered his political isolation. Phibun’s deputy – and therefore the second most powerful man in the army that formed the basis of his power – was General Mangkorn, who even though he headed the 1940 goodwill mission to Tokyo was viewed with suspicion by the Japanese and whose elevation to the post of defence minister was applauded by the British and American.
Sin of course had always been enthusiastic when it came to dealings with the Japanese ever since the Thai naval procurement mission of 1935. This was a result of the IJN’s willingness to assist his service, which had always played second fiddle to its rival, the army. His enthusiasm however was reduced considerably as the war progressed.

3. Thailand’s first objective was to ride out the storm, not to regain her lost territories. Phibun’s first objective was to ride out the storm and to stay in power. Allying with the Japanese was not done out of any ideological fervour; it was a necessity that spared Thailand destruction. Expanding the kingdom’s borders was simply an added bonus for being on the “winning” side of the war, and was probably seen by the ever opportunistic Phu Nam as a cheap way to increase his personal prestige.

4. In Phibun’s absence the armed forces’ standing orders were to resist any invaders. The fighting against the Japanese on December 8 was no symbolic act to save face; it was the rational thing to do (especially for a population that’s been constantly exhorted to defend their nation’s sovereignty by the regime’s remarkably effective propaganda machine). No different from what the Dutch, Danes, Belgians and Norwegians did in 1940.

5. From mid December 1941 to March 1942 Thailand considered joining the Axis alliance, mainly because many in the country’s leadership felt that the alliance with Japan and the declaration of war on Britain and the US had not sufficiently boosted Thailand’s standing in Axis circles. Such a move however was discouraged by the Japanese, who feared that this would undermine their right of leadership in the Asian sphere.

6. The Thai-Japanese alliance was no smooth affair. The two countries bickered often over such issues as the management of the local Chinese community, the disposition of Allied property in Thailand, as well as various economic matters. Phibun’s refusal to personally attend the Greater East Asian Conference as well as the Thai government’s half-hearted recognition of the Wang Ching-wei government too did nothing to endear them to the Japanese.

As a matter of fact, clashes between Thai and Japanese troops occurred in December 1942 and again in July 1944.

7. Pridi refused to sign the Thai declaration of war; the absence of his signature allowed the post-war government to rescind it. So one could argue that Thailand was never legally at war with the Allies... but just keep in mind that Phibun's government did actively support Japanese military operations.

Feel free to dispute my views... I won't bite :)

[The Enforcer!]

7. Pridi refused to sign the Thai declaration of war; the absence of his signature allowed the post-war government to rescind it. So one could argue that Thailand was never legally at war with the Allies... but just keep in mind that Phibun's government did actively support Japanese military operations.
This is not correct as far as I am aware. Whilst Pridi did not pass on the declaration of war to the US government the Phibun regime did declare war on Britain on 25th January 1942 and Britain reciprocated

The Enforcer!

[Pkv]

I'm afraid you're quite mistaken. It was Seni, the Thai minister in Washington, who refused to deliver the declaration of war to the State Department (contrary to what he would later claim, he did not dramatically denounce his government's decision to Cordell Hull in a face-to-face meeting). The Thai minister in London was however concerned about the fate of his family in Bangkok, and so had no scruples in following Phibun's instructions.

On January 25 only two of the three regents signed the declaration of war; Pridi was away at his Ayutthaya home on that weekend. While there was no constitutional clause that demanded that the regents' approval be unanimous, Pridi nevertheless later branded the declaration illegal, "null and void" because he had not signed it.

[The Enforcer!]

Sorry yes got my Pridi's and Seni's mixed up. However the point I was trying to address was that it is wrong to say "So one could argue that Thailand was never legally at war with the Allies". It was.

General Chao Phya Pichayendrayodhin and Chao Phya Yamaraja both signed the declaration of War on Britain, and it was handed to our Foreign Office.

The Enforcer!

[mdechgan]

Pridi and Phiboon were ultimate adversaries and everyone knew it.

Pridi was considered a staunch leftist and in the end he went to China for voluntary exile. Some say his ideaology of nationalising land and labour were almost communist in nature. I think he died in France

Phiboon ultimately went to Japan and I think was tried for war crimes. I think Phiboon was stuck between a wall and a hard place. The Japanese warships were going up the Chao Phraya river and the Thais were not in a position to fight a war with the Japanese powerhouse. If he didn't submit to the Japanese they would have bombed Bangkok, but if he did submit to the Japanese the British and Americans would have retalliated which they did.
In the end many said he did what was best for the Thai people and joined forces with anyone that had a warship up the Chao Phraya river. If you can't beat them then join them.

[The Enforcer!]

In the end many said he did what was best for the Thai people and joined forces with anyone that had a warship up the Chao Phraya river. If you can't beat them then join them.
Do the words 'Vichy France' come to anyone's mind?

The Enforcer!

[FarangBha]

I think he covered both bets, looking back for the good of the country. Later and earlier actions show that ultimately what was good for the country was good for him.

[Wisarut]

Pridi and Phiboon were ultimate adversaries and everyone knew it.

Pridi was considered a staunch leftist and in the end he went to China for voluntary exile. Some say his ideaology of nationalising land and labour were almost communist in nature. I think he died in France

Phiboon ultimately went to Japan and I think was tried for war crimes. I think Phiboon was stuck between a wall and a hard place. The Japanese warships were going up the Chao Phraya river and the Thais were not in a position to fight a war with the Japanese powerhouse. If he didn't submit to the Japanese they would have bombed Bangkok, but if he did submit to the Japanese the British and Americans would have retalliated which they did.
In the end many said he did what was best for the Thai people and joined forces with anyone that had a warship up the Chao Phraya river. If you can't beat them then join them.

Pridi was in Exile in China from 1947 to 1968 and he spent the rest of hsi life in Paris. ZOn the otehr han the Leader (Plaek Phiboonsonggram) wetn to japan after the coup on 16 Sept 1957 ... and passed away on 11 Juen 1964.

[Wisarut]

Sorry yes got my Pridi's and Seni's mixed up. However the point I was trying to address was that it is wrong to say "So one could argue that Thailand was never legally at war with the Allies". It was.

General Chao Phya Pichayendrayodhin and Chao Phya Yamaraja both signed the declaration of War on Britain, and it was handed to our Foreign Office.

The Enforcer!

Well for the case of Regent of that Year (1942), they were General Chao Phya Pichayendrayodhin and Phra Ong Chao Athit Thipphayaabha .... General Chao Phya Pichayendrayodhin passed away in mid 1942 and Phra Ong Chao Athit Thipphayaabha passes away in May 1946 due to liver cancer.

Air Colonel Chaophraya Yommaraj (Pan Sukhum) passed away on 30 December 1938 though.

[The Enforcer!]

Air Colonel Chaophraya Yommaraj (Pan Sukhum) passed away on 30 December 1938 though.
That was a bit strange as according to the Royal Thai Government he signed the Royal Petition to form the tenth National Assembly on 7th March 1942. see http://www.cabinet.thaigov.go.th/eng/cab_10.htm .

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

That was a bit strange as according to the Royal Thai Government he signed the Royal Petition to form the tenth National Assembly on 7th March 1942. see http://www.cabinet.thaigov.go.th/eng/cab_10.htm .

The Enforcer!

Better check the ROyal Garzette for this matter:
The Royal Garzette VOl. 59 No. 15 Kor (pubished on 10 March 1942) stated that the Committee of Regency consisted of

1. Athit Thipphayaabha
2. General Phitchayen Yothin
3. Pridi Banomyong

This must be due to errors by those who tyupe English pages abotu Thai Cabinate
REF: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2485/A/015/646.PDF

[GWR]

A thread on current politics has also recently been exploring the issues of WW2 era nationalism and nationbuilding:

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=2913