Victory at any cost

[Baton Rouge]

The October Election strategy of PM Thaksin Shinawatra is beginning to become apparent.

1) More pay for those all important government officials who are capable of steering the public to victory if the incentives are right.

2) More promotion for old military buddies, just as long as they play the game. This strategy has already run into a few problems , however.

3) Sudden talk of basic pay increases. The cynical might suggest you have deliberately kept them low for several years so you can afford to announce a big one if there is any chance you might lose an election.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/07/21/national/national_30009235.php

4) The resumption of the 'War on Drugs'. It's good election strategy to snuff out a few thousand small fry, just so long as you don't touch the Big Fry. We don't want to upset the party financiers do we?
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/07/21/national/national_30009229.php

Any others that you have noticed in the last few days?

[Wisarut]

Clipping the Wing of Thaksin' Cronies in Top Brasses:
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000093336

[Wisarut]

Royal Decree for October 15, 2006 Election Approved & Issued - with String Attached of REMOVING the puppet EC OUT:
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000093620

[Wisarut]

Supremee Court Siad: "Royal Decress for Election in October 15, 2006 is NOT a Pardon for the puppet EC - Those EC may have to be in Prison Cells before proceeding the upcoming election"
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000093810

[Wisarut]

Third Army Commander Exposing the Lackey Generals who keep Telling a LIE to Thaksin for theri own gains
http://www.manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000093140
http://www.manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000093199

Note: The insider said Maj Gen. Manas Paorik (The commander of the 1st Cavalry Division [Phetchabun]) is one of the Lackey General for Ai Maew


CHamlong Pointout out that "Thaksin must Quit ..."
http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000093835

[Wisarut]

Ai Pornchai Kranloed is another Lackey general for Ai maew ....

REF: http://www.thaiinsider.com/board/view.php?No=3419

Praise the 3rd Armuy Commander of Fort naresuan - Phitsanuloke
http://www.thaiinsider.com/board/view.php?No=3418

[ncr]

Praise the 3rd Armuy Commander of Fort naresuan - Phitsanuloke http://www.thaiinsider.com/board/view.php?No=3418Hmmmm, could you elaborate/translate? What was so praiseworthy in what he said?

The latest cartoon by Stephff is just too lovely and fits nicely into this thread......:
http://www.2bangkok.com/06/Sonthi%27s-annual-military-re.gif

[Tettyan]

So it seems that the much-rumoured coup did not take place on Thursday. Instead, we saw 129 Thaksin loyalists transferred out of key positions in the army:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/07/20/headlines/headlines_30009175.php



MILITARY TRANSFERS
Sonthi stuns by shifting PM's allies

Army chief sidelines officers close to premier; rifts likely to widen further in armed forces

July 20, 2006

Army chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin caught many by surprise after it was made public that he has just issued an order to transfer a number of middle-ranking officers who are close to Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's military school classmates.

Out of the 129 transfers, more than half of the mid-ranking officers had been working under the command of generals who had graduated from the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School's Class 10, which Thaksin has close ties to.

These men were deemed to be essential to the Army's chain of command as they directly command troops and battalions on the ground, mostly attached to units based in Bangkok.

Sonthi's order was issued on Monday and posted on the Army's website yesterday. It is unusual for the Army to issue transfers at any time of the year other than December.

The move came amid ongoing tension in the military as General Prem Tinsulanonda, the president of the Privy Council, has been seen wearing a combat uniform over the past week. Prem has called on soldiers to support the monarchy and the country.

Sonthi's decision came amid reports that Thaksin was planning to kick him upstairs to the ceremonial post of Armed Forces Commander-in-Chief and replace him with General Pornchai Kranlert, the assistant Army chief and a key member of the Class 10 circle.

Sonthi left for the deep South yesterday on a trip aimed at strengthening the Army's relations with Muslim leaders. More than 1,300 people have been killed in the region due to insurgent violence since January 2004.

According to a source, Sonthi had discussed the transfers with Lt-General Anuphong Paojinda, the commander of the First Army Area. Although Anuphong is a Class 10 member, he is not considered to be linked politically to the Thaksin camp. He said the Army chief does not want officers with political links to be in key positions.

But Major General Prin Suwanathat, the commander of the First Infantry Division (Royal Guards) in Bangkok and a key Class 10 member, was kept in the dark by Sonthi. In fact, a number of Prin's soldiers under his command were transferred.

Prin found himself in the political spotlight last year after he handed a letter to Sonthi Limthonkul, a leading member of the anti-Thaksin movement, urging the media tycoon to refrain from making reference to the monarchy when attacking Thaksin.

Other key mid-ranking officers transferred under the Monday order include Lt-Colonel Khosit Shinwalan, commander of the Fourth Cavalry Battalion, an armoury unit based in Bangkok. He was transferred to a unit in Saraburi province. Khosit has family links to a Class 10 member.

Lt-Colonel Wejachak Khan-ubol, commander of the First Infantry Battalion, was transferred to a unit in Lop Buri, while Lt-Colonel Anuparp Sirimonthon, commander of the Third Infantry Battalion, was transferred to the South. Both battalions are under the Fist Infantry Division (Royal Guards), under Prin's command.

A group of Class 10 members, led by General Pornchai, had lunch together at the Royal Army Auditorium on Tuesday amid growing anxiety over the political situation. Afterwards, rumours of a military coup swirled around all evening and continued all day yesterday.



ANALYSIS
PM outflanked ahead of annual military reshuffle

July 21, 2006

The routine Army order to transfer 129 battalion-level commanders signals the start of a power play between professional soldiers and caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

By approving the rotations, Army Commander-in-Chief General Sonthi Boonyaratglin sent a message to Thaksin that the military would not get involved in nor condone his attempts to cling to power.

Just days after Privy Council president General Prem Tinsulanonda drew an analogy - comparing the military to a horse and the government to its jockey - Sonthi made it clear that the horse is prepared to bolt from under the rogue jockey. As the jockey, Thaksin had better be prepared to keep a tight grip on his reins or else he might fall off his steed.

Sonthi's move on Monday amounts to a pre-emptive strike, crippling the ability of Thaksin's military allies to intervene in or exert undue influence over political affairs. If Thaksin wants to retain his clout and use the military as a power base, then he has to plot round two to counter Sonthi's blitz.

Since taking the government helm in 2001, Thaksin has given his blessing to fast-track promotions for officers from Pre-Cadet Class 10, his classmates at the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School.

Even though he is an elected leader, he knows that when push comes to shove in real politics, his military allies can play a decisive role in ensuring his survival.

As the political crisis has gripped the nation for months, Pre-Cadet Class 10 officers have emerged as defenders behind Thaksin's throne.

Last year, the embattled prime minister manoeuvred for the appointments of his allies to key positions dominating the military presence in Bangkok, the seat of government.

Assistant Army chief General Pornchai Kranlert, First Army Area commander-general Lt-General Anupong Paochinda and First Infantry Division commander Maj-General Prin Suwanathat are seen as the linchpins of Thaksin's control over the military.

This coming October, Prin is due for a transfer after completing a three-year term. Pornchai is slated for promotion as Thaksin wants to see him wield greater influence on his behalf.

Anupong faces an uncertain future after government supporters spread rumours that he might be wavering in his loyalty to Thak-sin. Lt-General Jirasit Kesakomol, seen as a staunch Thaksin ally, is expected to succeed him.

Jirasit is presently the commander of the First Army Corps.

To push for Pornchai's promotion, Thaksin's allies have hinted that Sonthi might be kicked upstairs. If the government gets its way, Sonthi is likely to succeed Supreme Commander General Ruengroj Mahasaranont, who faces mandatory retirement in September.

Before Thaksin could make his first move to re-align the Army chain-of-command, Sonthi ordered sweeping transfers of combat commanders.

Top combat commanders, seen as close to Prin and Pornchai, were moved to staff positions or units located upcountry. Key infantry, cavalry and artillery commanding officers in Bangkok were completely shuffled out.

Many new commanders are veterans from the Queen's Guard of the 21st Infantry Regiment based in Chon Buri. These officers came from crack troops known for their valour and professionalism.

After Sonthi drew up a new line-up of combat forces, he won kudos for distancing the military from politics.

With the backing of combat commanders, the Army chief has gained the leverage to try and deter Thaksin from meddling in top-level transfers.

However, Thaksin still has the final say in the composition of the list of annual military rotations as it is up to him to seek the royal nod.

After his subordinates were delegated to inferior positions, Pornchai may not have the clout to replace Sonthi.

Thaksin would drive a wedge in the Army if he insists on bypassing seniority to promote his ally Pornchai.

A possible compromise is for Sonthi to keep his job while Thaksin has his say in elevating Pornchai to the position of deputy Army chief.

Should the government decide to transfer Sonthi regardless of the consequences, Thaksin may have to choose between two lead contenders, assistant Army chief General Paisal Katanyu and Army Chief-of-Staff Sophon Silpipat.

Compared to Pornchai, the two officers are more acceptable among the ranks to carry the Army's torch.

The replacement of Prin will likely generate heated debate.

Thaksin has lined up many division commanders from Pre-Cadet Class 10 as candidates to succeed Prin. As Prin's division is the most crucial unit in projecting military influence, the government obviously wants its trusted ally at the command post.

If professional soldiers are to stay in their barracks without fear of political reprisal, it is imperative that Prin's successor should be a career soldier and not a government crony.

Avudh Panananda

The Nation

What seemed to suprise everyone in light of this was that the King signed the election decree yesterday after his surgery. Many think it doesn't make sense. But look again at the military transfers. The Thaksin loyalists were transferred from field unit positions throughout the country to either inactive posts or units in Lop Buri, Saraburi, or the south (areas known to be loyal to Prem, where they can be kept under control). It was rumoured that last year, Thaksin used his loyalists in the military to campaign for him throughout the country (esp pressuing soldiers in units under their control to vote TRT). With this element neutralized now, and having gained the upper hand (at least for the time-being), perhaps "the network" may be sufficiently satsified enough to allow the election to go ahead.

If Thaksin's criticism of "phu mee baramee" last month was a declaration of war on "the network", then Round 1 goes to Prem and "the network". Stay tuned for Round 2...

[Tettyan]

The BKK Post's coverage of the same stories:

Two top army brass launch war of words
Seen by observers as political proxy clash

WASSANA NANUAM

July 21, 2006

Discord erupted in the army yesterday after the Third Army commander voiced dissatisfaction about a certain member of the pre-cadet Class 10 military group _ classmates of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra at pre-cadet school. Observers saw the war of words as a battle between political proxies within the army.

The heated exchange followed the army reshuffle on Wednesday.

In the reshuffle, 129 middle-ranking military commanders were transferred from 38 army battalions to inactive posts without troop mobilisation authority.

Most of the 129 commanders reportedly have close connections with the caretaker premier's classmates at the Armed Forces Academies Preparatory School. They have been replaced by officers connected to high-ranking officers who are known to be Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda loyalists.

Third Army commander Lt-Gen Saprang Kalayanamitr yesterday indirectly referred to a certain member of the pre-cadet Class 10 clique as a ''bad guy'' after he received flak for being overtly critical of the Thaksin administration.

Lt-Gen Saprang told the media yesterday: ''Most of my subordinates in the Third Army who are members of the Class 10 group are good people and responsible military officers. They supported my promotion every time, except some bad guy in the group.''

He said the ''bad guy'' mixed up personal and national interests, slandered superiors, sought career advancement by smearing others while claiming collective achievement as his own, and leaked confidential military information to the public.

''The 'bad soldier' often told national leaders distorted information about my conduct,'' he said.

''He smeared me just to flatter the prime minister and didn't take into account the damage it could cause to the army and to the country. He just wanted to climb to the top post in the Third Army,'' the commander said without naming names.

However, the Class 10 member, later identified as Maj-Gen Manas Paorik, had claimed earlier that the Third Army commander had been preparing troops comprising three to four battalions.

''He claimed the troops would be mobilised to step up security in the city. Actually, they would be mobilised to stage a coup.

''His friends in Bangkok also ordered their troops to be trained during night time. They also incited their subordinates not to be under government control,'' the major-general was quoted as saying.

Dismissing Maj-Gen Manas' claims, Lt-Gen Saprang said the Third Army's training was common military practice as it had to train to defend the country.

''I affirm that all soldiers in the Third Army are very much united. They are the nation's and His Majesty the King's soldiers. They are disciplined and will strictly follow the orders of their commanders,'' he said.

Meanwhile, Defence Minister Thammarak Isarangkura na Ayudhaya warned that no one should talk about a coup amid the current political crisis.

''A coup is illegal. Tell me who is planning to do it. I will have police arrest the person,'' said the minister.[/quote]



ANALYSIS / MILITARY RESHUFFLE
A rude shock for Thaksin's classmates
Class 10 officers of the prime minister's clique find 'their men' have been sidelined in the latest reshuffle

By WASSANA NANUAM

Like lightning in broad daylight, the news made public yesterday about the transfer of 129 middle-ranked military officers, including 38 battalion commanders, has sent shockwaves through the military, especially among the former classmates of Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra at the Armed Forces Preparatory School. Army Commander-in-Chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin endorsed the reshuffle list, which was separately prepared by the commanding generals of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th regional armies and vetted by an army panel headed by General Vichit Yathip, the deputy army commander-in-chief.

The most significant thing about this shakeup is that most of the battalion commanders _ especially those based in Bangkok and nearby provinces and who were seen as being closely connected with Mr Thaksin's former classmates, or Class 10 of the pre-cadet school _ have been sidelined to positions not responsible for commanding fighting troops.

Officers shunned include Lt-Col Kosit Chinwasant, commander of the 4th cavalry battalion of the Royal Guards which, in the past, played a crucial role in coup attempts _ he is the son-in-law of Maj-Gen Sanit Prommas, commander of the 2nd cavalry division of the Royal Guards and a member of Class 10; Lt-Col Wechasakdi Khantha-ubon, commander of the 1st infantry battalion of the first regiment; Lt-Col Anuparb Sirimonthon, commander of the 3rd infantry battalion of the first regiment.

Well-informed army sources said Maj-Gen Proen Suwannathat, commander of the Bangkok-based first division who is a member of Class 10, was well aware of the move to sideline his men to insignificant posts, and raised his objections with Lt-Gen Anupong Paochinda, also a Class 10 member but regarded by his former classmates as an ''outsider'' for not toeing Prime Minister Thaksin's line.

Gen Vichit, said to be uncomfortable in his role as chairman of the panel vetting the reshuffle list, reportedly complained of the infighting between opposing Class 10 officers about the shakeup. In the end, however, the list was quickly wrapped up and sent to Gen Sonthi who approved it on July 17, pre-empting any attempt by the dissident officers to raise the matter with the prime minister _ and thus avoiding the prospect of Mr Thaksin's interfering with the list.

Sources said the Class 10 members had always had their way in previous transfers of mid-ranked officers, because their superiors were reluctant to intervene as they felt krengjai or considerate of those members' close connections with the prime minister.

Gen Sonthi's endorsement of the latest reshuffle _ in which most, if not all, the protege{aac}s of the Class 10 officers have been removed from key troop-commanding posts _ is seen by observers as a bold and significant move to counter-balance the growing power of the Class 10 corps.

Others view this as a sign of growing defiance against the prime minister's interference in military affairs, in which he allegedly curried favour with selected groups of officers to prop up his political stability.

Interestingly, the reshuffle has come less than a week after Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda reminded military officers that they must place their loyalty to the monarchy and the nation as their foremost priority, not towards politicians or political parties.

Seen in the context of a confrontational atmosphere _ with Mr Thaksin on one side and on the other an opponent he has mysteriously identified only as ''a charismatic person'', though widely thought to be Gen Prem _ the recent military reshuffle clearly demonstrates which side the incumbent army chief has chosen.

When asked about the reshuffle by reporters yesterday, Mr Thaksin appeared uneasy and told them to refer their question to Gen Sonthi instead.

Sources said that there was mutual distrust between Gen Sonthi and the Class 10 corps, which consequently contributed to the coup rumours which, from time to time, have been spread across the city.

During the height of the anti-Thaksin protests in March and April, it was reported that Gen Sonthi surrounded himself with security guards brought directly from the Lop Buri-based special forces which he once commanded, instead of from the cavalry division commanded by one of the Class 10 generals.

Informed sources said the guards also equipped themselves with anti-tank missiles in case they were attacked by coup makers.

Meanwhile, the Class 10 corps nurses doubts about Gen Sonthi's loyalty towards Prime Minister Thaksin.

They cited a case in April when the army chief allowed media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul, who spearheads the anti-Thaksin movement, to see him at army headquarters.

Whatever the case may be, the latest military reshuffle serves as an umistaken message to Mr Thaksin and his ex-classmates at the pre-cadet school, that Gen Sonthi's first and foremost loyalty is not towards them.

The rift among the officer's corps between Class 10 officers and non-Class 10 officers is widening as never before, thanks to the meddling in military affairs by Mr Thaksin during his five years in office.

The military's fundamental rules of promotion, which put emphasis on competency, seniority and resourcefulness, have been completely discarded and replaced by one, single rule imposed by Mr Thaksin, that is nepotism. Thus, former classmates, friends and relatives have always come first in his choice of promotions.

Equally to blame are the officers themselves, who flocked in greater numbers to kowtow to politicians in return for a promising career path.

The rift in the military is undeniable, but whether this will lead to a confrontation remains to be seen.

What is obvious from this interesting development is that Mr Thaksin is finding himself being squeezed tighter into a corner, with more and more of his once-trusted people jumping ship or turning against him.

As prime minister, Mr Thaksin still has a say in the annual reshuffle of higher-ranking military officers. He can replace Gen Sonthi with one of his former classmates, Gen Pornchai Kranlert. But with his declining influence and growing defiance against his alleged misrule, it is doubtful he would dare to axe the army chief, as that would put him on the firing line.

[Scuba22]

The network is clearly strong enought to win some early battles, but does it have staying power? Thaksin has youth and wealth on his side, though continued cash flows will depend both on what he does with his Shin sale windfall and how much tycoon/jao por support he retains. It's hard to see him putting that cash to work in Thailand - he'd take the risk of losing it all - but it's also hard to see him investing it outside of Thailand - what message would that send? Without investing it, he could find the cash dwindling - even rich people like Bloomberg need external contributions to make campaigns happen, it's immensely difficult to sustain with a personal fortune, even with US$2 billion.

But the youth is critical - not kids, but being relatively younger than the network leaders. That's the major problem - where is the next generation of network leaders? Well, that's what Thaksin is setting himself up to be, the heir apparent - or at least in cahoots with that. For the forseeable future, I don't see how anyone can credibly challenge that.

Does anyone thing Thaksin will lose the next election? If he wins, will that slince his critics? The Economist said this week that investors are expecting the Oct elections to return the country to stability. I sure hope their reporters in other countries are better than whoever they have here, because their Thai reporting just sucks.

Cheers,

Scuba22

[GWR]

Some observations from Chang Noi on how Thailand continues to be ripped asunder by opposing greedy factions.

I always enjoy Chang Noi, but sort of get the impression that he has nothing new to offer. For that matter, who does? It might even be suggested that 'Mai Pen Rai' is about the only recourse both ordinary locals and dogsbody farangs have in a country where the wealthy and powerful are determined to ensure that no one else EVER gets a look in: -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/07/24/opinion/opinion_30009392.php

Two stories on the origins of Thai democracy

How did Thailand become a democracy? In recent decades, there have been two different ways of telling this story. Each version contains its own explanation of why this democracy seems to have so many problems.

The first version goes like this.

In the colonial era, Siam's old elite cooperated cleverly with foreign powers. As a result, Siam got the worst of both worlds. The economy fell under foreign domination, while political power remained in the hands of a tiny elite.

A movement arose that questioned why Siam remained poor and backward, even compared to neighbouring countries under colonial rule. This movement argued that the old elite was "farming on the backs of the people".

Those who benefited were the old families and the colonial firms. In 1932, this movement was able to overthrow the absolute monarchy. The new leaders brought in a constitution and parliament, rewrote the treaties that submitted Siam to colonial economic domination, and began work on social and economic development.

But the task was hampered by fears of a counter-revolution by the royalist-colonialist rearguard that had benefited under the old regime. The new leaders hesitated over pressing ahead with democratisation.

Military officers took this opportunity to seize power. At first, their domination was rather shaky. But that changed after the US selected Thailand as a base during the Cold War. The Americans provided military rulers with funding, arms, and strong external support. The result was 50 years in which the military dominated Thai politics in varying ways. For most of this time, the people had no political rights, and free debate was suppressed.

The US also promoted the growth of a capitalist economy, which created a new and powerful class of big businessmen.

This military domination was overthrown by a popular movement that was initially led by students but supported by a large swathe of the population. There were leaders, such as Pridi Banomyong and Thirayuth Boonmee, who had a strong belief in democracy. The media played a key role in promoting democratic ideas. The businessmen gave guarded support to democratisation in the hope it would lead to more liberal policies.

Military rule was undermined through a series of political crises that brought massive numbers of people onto the streets in political demonstrations. The democracy movement used the strategy of writing constitutions to whittle back the power of the military.

By the 1990s, there was a functioning parliamentary democracy in place, but it still had many problems. Politics and business were too closely intertwined. Money dominated. The rural mass of the population still seemed poorly integrated into the democratic system. Perhaps this was because the history of Thailand's democracy had been very much an urban story in which the countryside had only a peripheral role.

The second version of the history of Thailand's democracy is very different. It also starts back in the colonial period, and goes like this. Siam avoided colonisation because the old elite took the lead in modernising the country. There was no demand for democratisation because this modernisation was so successful. By 1930, the old elite was preparing to grant a constitution and move towards parliamentary rule, but this plan was disrupted by the 1932 coup.

Even though the coup was only the work of a hundred or so impatient adventurers, King Rama VII had the good sense to cooperate in order to avoid conflict and bloodshed. He granted a constitution. But this cooperation eventually broke down because the new leaders were power-hungry and self-interested. The king abdicated, proving that he was more democratic in spirit than his opponents. Politics were taken over by gangs of generals and business cronies, who fought over the spoils of power for the next 50 years. Parliaments were set up, constitutions written, and elections held, but these did not really work.

Thailand is unique and such foreign imports do not suit the local culture. Underneath this institutional veneer, politics was a crude battle for power and profit. His Majesty the King carved out a special role in this unstable environment.

The monarch's ability to intervene is limited because he is above politics and must always conform to the Constitution. But he acts as a moral force countering the self-interest of politicians, and is able to play a role in defusing crises when all other mechanisms fail.

These histories are so contrary that they could come from two different countries. In one, the old elite outwits colonialism and pioneers modernisation. In the other, the old elite allies with colonialism and keeps the country from progressing. In one, democracy is something granted from above and constantly overseen. In the other, democracy is achieved by people asserting themselves against old power holders. In one, people remain essentially subjects. In the other, they become citizens.

In one, constitutions are foreign imports that fail. In the other, they are spearheads of change for the better. In one, Thailand is unique. In the other, it is not really different from many other countries.

In the context of the second history, the current crisis is nothing new or surprising. Thai politics has been going astray ever since the country lurched towards constitutional democracy in 1932. This is just another in an inevitable series of crises that have to be overcome.

But in the context of the first history, the current crisis is much more complex and potentially tragic. The constitution of 1997, vaunted as the most democratic ever, delivered power into the hands of the least democratic leader of recent years. Attempts to remove him because of his abuse of democracy have utilised both media pressure and street demonstrations, which were the tools of the democracy movement in the past. But these have given him the chance to portray himself as a defender of democracy. All the wires have become crossed, and there is a real danger that the lessons of this version of the history are getting lost in the static.

Chang noi

[Wisarut]

For the case of 2 version of Thai Democracy, it has to be these 2 unreconcilable versions ...

NEVER forget that thsoe graduate from French Military Academy or French Ecole have considered those wh ograduate from Eton, Oxford and Cambridge or other British & Prussian civilian & military academies as those "Old Regime", deserving Tarutao Penal Colony or Bang Kwang Central Prison ... or live in exile ....

On the otehr hand, those royalists who suffer from persecution by those from People Party have considered those French-graduated people as "Bloody Babarians" who advocated from Bloody Purge of French Revolution as well as "Cruel Communists" who want to repeat the same thign the RED GUARD had done to Czarist regime ....


Oh, did you know that one member of Seri Managkhasila MP of the Great Leader has ACCUSED His Majesty fro contributing 700000 Baht to Support Democrat Party in 1957! :eek:

[Wisarut]

Khun Pramote Nakhasab has pointed out the COnnection between Thaksin and the former Leftists such as Choocheep Chiwasutthi [AKA Comrade Somchai], Comrade Sek, and Moh Phrommin [AKA Comrade Charat] ) who got Indoctrined by Khmer Rouge at Political & Military School 305 in Samrong, Cambodia.

http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000094202

[Wisarut]

Khunying potjaman has decided to purchase a fleet ofg M60 Tanks to protect her husband :p :rolleyes: ;) :D :eek:
http://www.manager.co.th/Pjkkuan/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000094327

[Wisarut]

Opinion 8:

5 Demon Guards for Great leader

1. Wizard Newin - Khmer Rusputin of Buriram - Bigaboo 120

2. Doctor Mink - a Homo doc with a medality of Communism

3. Papa Phadung with grey hair - a couple of major Sitha Thiwaree (a big gay of Klong Toei)

4. Doctor Liab - a doc set up certification mills to pump more Quacks along with becoming a major drug dealer and speaker who speaks NOTHING but Trash ... who licks the balls for the great leader.

5. Happy Shooter Yongyut who can shoot anybody at will ....

Opinion 69

Those left-wing intellectuals in Midnight University are Anti-Royalists by nature. They keep smoking Bongs inside the room before comign up with analyses whih NO good to ordinary citizens like us. So Boring ...

They are trying to think about alternative to the current system without THINKING about the consequence from doing so. Do they want Thailand to become a Living HELL as Burma and cambodia... Defintely they DO since they live in ivory towers ... whichign Politicians who they have indoctrine to treat them as members of Royal Academy

Did you hear wehat I'm talking about, Dr. Nithi Iawsriwongse? Dr. Somkiat Phongphaiboon? Dr. Somchai? Please No More Smoking Bongs and coming uyp with TRASH like this!

Condolescense to those intellectual in Dark World ....

// ------------------------------------------------------

Opinion 68 by Red Sinha of Thammasart University:

Dear Thai Compatriots,

If there are no good general like Papa Prem and His majesty, Thailand will become another Communist Country. Definitely, at least millions of Thai people would be either in graveyards or refugees to be persecuted.

Durign the first 10 years of Communism in Laos, there are about half a million Lao citizen who become refugees

Sinve we have good king, what is the reason why you are going to be with farang?

I heard that those Politburo form Indochina Communist party lamented about their frustration abotu FAILTURE to take over Thailand due to the luck to have good and Samrt His majesty.


For Those Anti-Monarchist, Let me ask you some questions:

1) DO YOu want to set up Serrminar Camps that put thousands of top brasses and higher ranks so you can TORTURE them at your will?

2) DO you want to set up Jusistical Lynching System (People Tribunal Court) for merchants, landlords, loan sharks, bankers or even noblemen so you can force them to dig theri own graveyards before being beaten to DEATH?

One thing to be sure, Thaksin will be LIQUIDATED by those 5 Demons aroudn him once he has successfully overthrown Monarchy ...

Khun SOndhi Sae-Lim, Be careful .... You cannot delayed the FINALY Showdown Any Longer of those 5 Demons will KILL YOU.

[GWR]

From the tone of most of the preceding comment, no wonder the PM and his family are feeling bullied. The bully has also replied: -

Thaksin says daughter teased by political science teacher

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said Sunday that his youngest daughter was teased in the class by a political science lecturer of Chulalongkorn University.

He said the teasing took place in a big class.

"The teacher said 'Paetongtarn, are you still studying here. I thought you've quit," Thaksin said, quoting his daughter as replying "yes".

"So, it's uncomfortable for me to gossip your father," Thaksin quoted his daughter as quoting the lecturer as saying.

He said his daughter replied "Go ahead, but in the future I'll gossip you in return".

The Nation
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30009363


Ung Ing's words 'twisted'

An assistant professor at Chulalongkorn University yesterday criticised outgoing Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra for seeking public sympathy ahead of the capital's local elections by saying university lecturers had verbally harangued his daughter.


Dr Supawadee Mitsomwang yesterday said she was the one who had teased Paetongtarn Shinawatra, caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's youngest daughter, but denied that she meant to hurt "Ung Ing".


She said she had heard reports about Paetongtarn quitting Chulalongkorn University during the vacation and she was surprised to see her on the first day of the new semester. "I just asked her 'Have you quit school? I cannot gossip about your father, then.' Ung Ing laughed and said, 'It's OK, I'll allow [you to]. It was just a chat between a student and a lecturer. I had no other intention,'' she said.


Supawadee said she lectured on the subject of social and cultural changes, so it was impossible for her not to mention government leaders during class.


"I still have to mention them, even if it's not Ung Ing's father. I need to demonstrate political analysis to the students. I also criticised the People's Alliance for Democracy. But I always avoid mentioning the name of the girl's father,'' she said.


Supawadee said the dean of the Political Science Faculty had set a policy that lecturers could discuss politics but not to put students at a disadvantage.


"I believe the girl jokingly told her father [about the conversation], but the prime minister spoke a half-truth and distorted the facts by saying that his daughter was bullied," Supawadee said. "I am not sure what the prime minister's objective is in mentioning this story now, when I have been talking about it for months. Or maybe he wanted to distort the facts because of the disappointing results of the local elections [for Thaksin's party, Thai Rak Thai]."


She said Thaksin should not have criticised the university as it was not fair to the other lecturers.


"He should have criticised me or written a letter to rebuke me directly. He should not have dragged the name of the institute into it," she said.


Supawadee said she felt sorry for Ung Ing because the girl had become a political victim. The academic said she did not want to take any action against Thaksin.


"Everyone knows this leader, that he is like that. I do not want to have anything to do with him or talk to him,'' Supawadee said.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/07/25/national/national_30009499.php

[ncr]

Found this gem in the Breaking News (http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30010552) section of the Nation (09 August 2006):

Thaksin cancels plans to hand out land deeds, cows

Khon Kaen - Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra Monday cancelled his plan to hand out land deeds, tree seedings, and cows to villagers in this northeastern province.

The cancellation came after criticism that Thaksin might violate the election law for abusing his authority to gain advantage during the run-up to the October 15 election.

Thaksin Monday visited villagers in None Sila district and preparations had been made for him to hand out Sor Por Kor documents to 400 villagers, cows to 50 villagers, Physic nut seedings to 500 villagers and much more.

But handout ceremony was cancelled.

The Nation

****

Political horse-trading..... "I give you cow, you give me vote!" In German language this makes for a far better joke, as we call it "Kuhhandel" (lit. cow-trading). :D

[Wisarut]

Opinion 25 by A concerned citizen

Yuth Duyen (Thai version of the Butcher) is one of the most diabolical TRT members, almost matching the party's Rusputin, Newin, who like his Russian counterpart is said to possess a strong spell over his master. In any case, both need a lot more than a mere religious ceremony to be kept at bay.

[Baton Rouge]

Each day brings another litany of indirect bribery from the totally shameless and amoral Thakkin Shinawatra. By 'remote schools', I think we can read 'anywhere where folk are vulnerable to the quick fix'. You can bet your bottom dollar that most of these laptops will have broken down in a few months. i.e. after the election: -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30010947

One Laptop per Child Project to be tested in November: Thaksin

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said Saturday that the project to provide a laptop computer to each primary school student will be tested in November.

Speaking during his weekly radio programme, Thaksin said the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Media Lab would deliver 30 prototypes of low-cost laptop computers to the Thai government in October and another 500 ones in November.

Thaksin said he would send the laptop computers to be tested in remote schools.

He said the if the test yielded satisfactory results, students would carry a laptop computer to school instead of carrying books and their books will be digitised and accessed on the computers.

The Nation

[Wisarut]

Same can be said to the rush to open Suvannabhum for Domestic fligth on September 15, 2006 ... whcih cause the insurection from Thai Inter Labor Union as well as th demestic airlines ... They are goign to Boycott the governemtn's plot to win the Election by rushign the openign of the Airport .... on the groudn of unsafety ...


// -----------------------------------------------

Now, many business communities are growing disillusioned with the Great Leader and cronies .... even thogu htehy wish that the new election would fix the problem ...

Howeever, thsoe left-leaning Eunuches aroudh teh Great Leaders want to wreck havoc to the society as the way to set up the Coup to Overthorwn the Monarchy ... a regenge to Octoebr 6, 1976 ... without THINKING abotu teh consequence .... They just want to get power for tehri own selfish interests aeven they have to swim in the sea of blood as well as stamping on the skulls and skeletons of those who stand on theri ways .... :eek:

[BangkokPundit]

Each day brings another litany of indirect bribery from the totally shameless and amoral Thakkin Shinawatra. By 'remote schools', I think we can read 'anywhere where folk are vulnerable to the quick fix'. You can bet your bottom dollar that most of these laptops will have broken down in a few months. i.e. after the election: -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30010947

So isn't it a smart idea to only take 500+ laptops first to see if they work as intended? Such a horrible thing to do by Thaksin and take up the offer from Negroponte. Thaksin would be crazy to pass up on the deal to test the system. No external electricity source is required to run the machines and the whole system seems very well thought out - the Wiki is here (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Table_of_Contents).

I don't think the manufacturer would want 'most of these laptops' to break down as you seem to think. It would hardly help them. Or you somehow aware of more information than us mere mortals?

So any policy which is somehow beneficial to somehow becomes automatically labelled 'indirect bribery'? Or does only apply when it comes from TRT?

[Baton Rouge]

No one is casting any aspersions on John Negroponte, MIT or the lap-top manufacturers. Thai politicians of all parties deserve ALL the flak they get.

As a mere pleb, I know that most computers are prone to glitches that are sometimes difficult to sort out - even in Bangkok.

[Scuba22]

So isn't it a smart idea to only take 500+ laptops first to see if they work as intended?

Are you aware of what "work as intented" actually means? Have you seen how PC's donated to schools tend to be used? It's not unusual that they stay wrapped in plastic because nobody wants to risk breaking them. It's also not unusual to see people in fairly large Thai businesses tapping out numbers on a calculator and then manually entering those calculations into an Exel sheet. I can show you spreadsheets I've received that are 100% hard codes.

I've been involved with several educational initiatives in Thailand, some involving computer training, and I've seen a few really good ones and plenty of total disasters. The hardware is the least of the issues, even cost-wise. Negroponte's intiative is aimed at far poorer populations than Thailands. For the most part, it's not that critical that every child have a laptop - a few PC's for a one school can do just fine. The far more critical issues relate to whether the teachers understand how to incorporate them into classroom work effectively.

I'm certainly looking forward to hearing about your extensive experience in developing country IT education. Or perhas you continue to feel that effective policy implementation is irrelevant so long as the policy itself sounds good on the surface. That certainly explains your continued support of TRT despite have no understanding of how these policies actually work (or rather don't) on the ground.

Shall we try this again - which TRT policies are you prepared to defend as practiced rather than as advertised: 30 B health care? OTOP? FTAs? SOE privatizations? War on Drugs? Southern conflict? Debt moratorium? TAMC?

Over to you.

Scuba22

[BangkokPundit]

Are you aware of what "work as intented" actually means?
Have you seen how PC's donated to schools tend to be used?

Actually, I am. I spent time studying at a Thai high school in a small rural city which had computers (ok, just one computer room). I don't know whether they were donated or purchased, but the computers were certainly used. Now, I don't doubt that the computer room was not always used efficiently as the computer room was certainly empty for chunks of time - particularly for latter year students who were focused on the entrance exam. This was when the Democrats were in power, but I am not going to blame them for this.

I'm certainly looking forward to hearing about your extensive experience in developing country IT education.

I never professed to be an expert on the subject. You do realise I was responding to the initial poster who said that most of the laptops would break down. I was responding that taking an initial 500+ computers hardly sounds like a bad idea. Newspaper reports state (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33279) that Nigeria has already paid for 1 million of the laptops. This hardly makes the 500+ computers sound unreasonable. It is a pity you can't bring yourself to even say something mildly positive about Thaksin

See now we get to get whether the computers actually work and whether it is practical for each student to have their own computer as well.


Shall we try this again - which TRT policies are you prepared to defend as practiced rather than as advertised: 30 B health care? OTOP? FTAs? SOE privatizations? War on Drugs? Southern conflict? Debt moratorium? TAMC?


Haven't we done this before. We just got into an endless debate which went on for days which achieved nothing.

What don't you enlighten me of your brilliant ideas for solving the Southern conflict and how you propose to implement them?

[Scuba22]

I spent time studying at a Thai high school in a small rural city which had computers (ok, just one computer room). I don't know whether they were donated or purchased, but the computers were certainly used.

Well that's the point, isn't it? You don't necessarily need to give everyone a laptop, you need to make sure that what is available is effecively used. There are demonstrably useful rural IT projects using just one computer. Handing laptops out to everyone is an excellent marketing exercise for a political party; it doesn't necessarily make a whit of difference in actually educating anyone.

I was responding that taking an initial 500+ computers hardly sounds like a bad idea.

Yes, that's right, it SOUNDS like a fine idea. Until you actually think about it. Then you realize that it hardly qualifies as any idea at all, bad or good. Do you really think it's a problem that kids don't have laptops? It's much like making a big noise about enacting new legislation on some area where the old legislation isn't enforced. It's an empty gesture intended to score political points.

It is a pity you can't bring yourself to even say something mildly positive about Thaksin

OK, here's a few postive things about Thaksin:
1. He's engaged the rural populace and made them feel they have a political voice
2. He got an excellent valuation on his Shin Corp sellout
3. He's built a very good information collection and dissemination infrastructure extending down to the village level

There, that's three positive things. Of course, NONE of these have anything to do with public policy. I'm perfectly willing to listen to any discussion of actual positive TRT public policy. You got one?

Haven't we done this before. We just got into an endless debate which went on for days which achieved nothing.

It achieved something very important. I learned from you that so long as policies sound good, how they're implemented doesn't really matter. It was an astounding comment, completely explaining why you are such a Thaksin fan.

What don't you enlighten me of your brilliant ideas for solving the Southern conflict and how you propose to implement them?

Did I claim to have brilliant ideas for solving the Southern conflict? Well, for a start I would suggest that the actual history of Pattani and its relationship to
the Thailand be better publicized as I've been constantly amazed at how little Thais know about this. Translating the ICG report into Thai and printing it in Thai Rath and the Daily News is a practical way to implement this.

You do claim to have a particular interst in the Southern conflict, and you are critical of TRT policies there. Similarly, you will find that anyone with actual expertise in any particular policy area is similarly critical of TRT policies in those areas. Thaksin's policies only SOUND good if you don't know much about the field - hence my contention that these policies are not meant to solve anything, they are merely ploys for getting votes. Mr Baton Rouge was completely on target in calling this a bribe.

In areas where you actually know something, even you feel this way; yet you cannot bring yourself to realize that this is a recurring pattern and instead choose to give him the benefit of the doubt in areas you know nothing about rather than taking the time to understand these other areas.

That's poor punditry.

Cheers,

Scuba22

[Tettyan]

It achieved something very important. I learned from you that so long as policies sound good, how they're implemented doesn't really matter. It was an astounding comment, completely explaining why you are such a Thaksin fan.

Hey, give that thread a little more credit! At least we all agreed that Thaksin's wealth was a more a result of luck (getting the favorable AIS concession just before the industry was set to take off) rather than policy manipulation.


Similarly, you will find that anyone with actual expertise in any particular policy area is similarly critical of TRT policies in those areas. Thaksin's policies only SOUND good if you don't know much about the field - hence my contention that these policies are not meant to solve anything, they are merely ploys for getting votes.

That reminds me of an encounter I had a few months back. I met the Chief Secretary (Palat) of an upcountry Tambon Administrative Organisation (TAO), who professed to be an admirer of Thaksin. But we got around to discussing his job and local government reform, the guy had absolutely NOTHING nice to say about Thaksin's policies on local government! In the end, he admitted that he looked up to Thaksin not for his policies on local government, but his "personal accomplishments", whatever that means. Perhaps there's something about the "spell of Thaksin" that can't be explained logically 100%.

[BangkokPundit]

Well that's the point, isn't it? You don't necessarily need to give everyone a laptop, you need to make sure that what is available is effecively used. There are demonstrably useful rural IT projects using just one computer. Handing laptops out to everyone is an excellent marketing exercise for a political party; it doesn't necessarily make a whit of difference in actually educating anyone.

The traditional model has been many students one laptop. Negroponte is arguing for the one laptop one child. I actually heard of this project through the BBC World Service before I heard Thailand was interested.

One reason I like the project is that there are actual behind the project running it and who are working on the technical issues. This is a long term project with a number of backers.

Yes, that's right, it SOUNDS like a fine idea. Until you actually think about it. Then you realize that it hardly qualifies as any idea at all, bad or good. Do you really think it's a problem that kids don't have laptops?

I actually think it sounds like a good idea. Most of the kids at these schools hardly get much of an opportunity to use a computer now. This would change under OLPC (one laptop per child).


It achieved something very important. I learned from you that so long as policies sound good, how they're implemented doesn't really matter. It was an astounding comment, completely explaining why you are such a Thaksin fan.

That is an interesting take on the discussion. This is exactly why I am not going to waste my time discussing anything with you. We get nowhere and then you claim victory.

Mr Baton Rouge was completely on target in calling this a bribe.

Like tax cuts or governments spending money, all a bribe.

[Scuba22]

One reason I like the project is that there are actual behind the project running it and who are working on the technical issues. This is a long term project with a number of backers.

I am well aware of the project and I don't have a problem with the idea of creating a US$100 laptop. Making useful technology cheapter and more accessible is all fne and good. The problem is that it doesn't really address the issue of technology education, and hype like this pretends that it does to the detriment of activities that actually do help.

Working on technical issues is fine - but do you really think that the major problem with IT education is a techical one? That PC's are too expensive? A reasonable desktop system right now can be had for as little as US$500 - so with existing technology you could have 100 computers instead of the 500 that you're so thrilled about. You think 500 computers with no change in how those computers are used is more useful than 100 computers with a radical improvement in teaching methods?

If you really want to make a difference, you work on how the computers are used - that's where there's severe problems. But this is not very sexy, so who cares. Typical Thaksin stunt.

I actually think it sounds like a good idea. Most of the kids at these schools hardly get much of an opportunity to use a computer now. This would change under OLPC (one laptop per child).

So you're saying that the major barrier to the "opportunity to use a computer" is that not all children have their own personal laptops? Is that really your position? I'll have to save this as one your classic quotes. Yup, it *sounds* great, like "spreading freedom" or "quick weight loss". Unfortunately, ideas that "sound good" are not the same as ideas that actually *are" good. OLPC is red herring, a distraction, and you're falling for it.

That is an interesting take on the discussion. This is exactly why I am not going to waste my time discussing anything with you. We get nowhere and then you claim victory.

Here's your own words on the 30 B health care scheme from http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=1315&page=2

"Ok, your problem seems to be with the implementation of the scheme, not the scheme itself. Well, I will defer to your knowledge on the problems of implementation. Like most reforms, it will take time."

and then:

"If implemented badly and there is no change to the present system which is lacking money, yes it could do more harm. I just expect as the economy expands that more money will go into healthcare so don't think it will do more harm. But we'll just have to look at the policy in 10-20 years time to see what happens."

The first comment draws the distinction between "implementation of the scheme" vs. "the scheme itself" - an "interesting take" indeed.

The second comment is an excellent defense of a flawed policy, kind of like the Bush administration's line about Iraq - only history can decide. No, not true. You don't need to wait 10-20 years to know that a generalized capitated system runs into problems. It's been tried before, it's never worked, and it won't work now. Global history and experience with health care reform were completely ignored in coming up with this scheme. It's inherently flawed and it doesn't take 10-20 years to figure that out.

Oh by the way, how's that "as the economy expands it will all get better" theory working out?

I don't understand why you think we get nowhere. We usually find out pretty quickly how superficial your knowledge is of the particulars of policies you support - as soon as we get into details, you run away. That's certainly "getting somewhere" - with regards to your credibility at least. The health care discussion continued for some length after you made your "implementation doesn't matter" comments and disappeared. If you're not prepared to discuss a topic at length and in depth, why are you surprised that someone else might "claim victory." My "victory" was not "I'm right", it's that "you don't know much about this, do you?" - which you admitted yourself in the above comments.

Wasting your time discussing with me, eh? Well, you accused me of not being able to say anything good about Thaksin, I said three positive things, and you ingored them. You snidely asked me for my "brilliant ideas" about the Southern conflict, I gave you an idea, and you ignored it. Who's wasting whose time here?

Like tax cuts or governments spending money, all a bribe.

You tell me that you'll give me a tax cut or spending for my pet project, what else could it possibly be than a bribe? Of course it's a bribe - what double-thinking mental gymnastics must you do to think otherwise? Now, you tell a group of Issan farmers that your SOE privatization scheme will include mechanisms to make sure your friends get privileged access to discounted shares, that would not be a bribe since the Issan farmers aren't directly benefiting from that policy. But I don't see Thaksin making that speech anytime soon.

Now, do you have anything real to say about IT education development, or are you going to run away again?

Cheers,

Scuba22

[Scuba22]

At least we all agreed that Thaksin's wealth was a more a result of luck (getting the favorable AIS concession just before the industry was set to take off) rather than policy manipulation.

Hey welcome back, good to see you! I was actually referencing a different thread, about the grassroots policies in general and 30 B health care specifically (the reference is in my other comment). But I would amend your comment above - I don't think it was a matter of luck "rather than" policy manipulation; I think that luck had more to do with it than I had previously considered. Giving luxury cars to generals handing out concessions still has a strong whiff of policy manipulation (and that's a kind euphemism) about it.

But we got around to discussing his job and local government reform, the guy had absolutely NOTHING nice to say about Thaksin's policies on local government!

It's typical of every Thaksin supporter I've ever met - as soon as you get into specifics, their arguments completely fall apart, or more accurately, there really isn't any argument at all. The more you know, the less of anything positive you have to say.

I have yet to meet anyone with any expertise in any field who is supportive of Thaksin's policies in that field. The assumption seems to be that since he's got so much money, he must be smart in some other field. A fascinating perception.

It's only a matter of time before this monster house of cards collapses. Unfortunately, events are shaping up such that it will be easy for him to blame all sorts of others for this when it happens.

Cheers,

Scuba22

[BangkokPundit]

You think 500 computers with no change in how those computers are used is more useful than 100 computers with a radical improvement in teaching methods?

A single system where all the laptops are using the same/very similiar software would make it easier to train teachers and to provide support for students when they have problems.

So you're saying that the major barrier to the "opportunity to use a computer" is that not all children have their own personal laptops? Is that really your position?

I am not saying it is an absolute requirement that students have their personal laptop, but if students have their own laptop they will have an opportunity to use a computer. Regardless of how technically illiterate the teachers are, many students will become proficient in using a computer. I see this is inherently better than using the computer one period once every week/2 weeks.

I'll have to save this as one your classic quotes. Yup, it *sounds* great, like "spreading freedom" or "quick weight loss". Unfortunately, ideas that "sound good" are not the same as ideas that actually *are" good. OLPC is red herring, a distraction, and you're falling for it.

And you wonder why I don't want to get into a discussion with you.

[Scuba22]

A single system where all the laptops are using the same/very similiar software would make it easier to train teachers and to provide support for students when they have problems.

You know what would make it even EASIER to "train teachers and to provide support for students"? A teacher training program and a support system for students. You see either of these in current or proposed education policy?

This program is a face-lift for a cancer patient. Purely cosmetic, addressing a minor issue while leaving major issues untouched for the sake of looking good instead of doing much that's useful. In other words, a typical TRT policy.

Regardless of how technically illiterate the teachers are, many students will become proficient in using a computer. I see this is inherently better than using the computer one period once every week/2 weeks.

Speaking of "technical illiteracy", let's do some numbers... the MIT group's target is US$100/machine. Current desktops are around US$500 per machine. Therefore, the 500 computers in OLPC could pay for 50 PC's while leaving half the money left over for teacher training and student tech support. That's 1 computer for every 10 kids instead of 1 computer for every kid. Over 2 weeks, that's a full day of computer training per kid - given a 5 hour school day, that's 1/2 hour per day or one hour every two days + after-school time for those particularly interested in following up.

Now, a far better way to teach kids how to use computers is to incorporate the machines into other aspects of learning rather than focus specifically on "computer classes." For example, an experimental school I visited in rural Chiang Rai had a science class where they sent kids through the local farm fields to collect bugs, and then had them look up the life cycle of those bugs on the internet to make presentations on the local ecosystem complete with powerpoint charts and graphs. These were 10 year olds, and their output was better than what I've seen from local investment banks. By your logic, by giving everyone a computer, some kids would figure out how to do this by themselves, so there's no reason to design learning experiences like this.

Incidentally, 1 PC for every 10 students is not far off what I had going to college and grad school in the US. It might even be better.

So this is your reasoning: giving laptops to all students and hoping some of them magically pick up what to do is better than a 1/2 hour a day on directed activies on the computer integrated into the rest of their studies. Great idea - give everyone a computer and some of them will figure out what to do with them. Maybe it doesn't work for bank employees, but it will for poor kids. "technical illiteracy" indeed.

And you wonder why I don't want to get into a discussion with you.

Actually, when you make comments like the ones above, no, I don't wonder at all. It's painfully obvious.

Cheers,

Scuba22

[Wisarut]

Now, the head of Constitution Protecton Club has file lawsuit AGAINT Khunying Jaruwan due to her activity ot investigate the tax evation of Shin Corp Deal :eek:

http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000104994

http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-08-17/15-07.htm

[Wisarut]

Now, Khun Pramote has poitne otu that Thaksin and cotnies are WILLIGN to Destyroy National Security for theri own politcal and financial gains .... at the expense of national Unity ,.. He is willign to SELL OUT Thailand and see the country ERASED from the surface of earth so logn that he is still at the top ...:eek:

http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000105079

Thaksin Under Seige
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/2006/08/17/w001_130001.php?news_id=130001


Homo relationship between MCOT Dirctor Mingkwan and Ai Sorayut
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000105052

Teh 3rd Army Commande Said he Never fear the threats by thsoe corrupt politicians .... After all thsoe in power right nwo is Traitor to Motherland and to His Majesty :eek:
http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-08-17/10-03.htm


ANother Bad Mouth of Thaksin ... about lices that stuck on his skin ...

http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-08-17/16-49.htm

[Wisarut]

A true PATRIOT 03/04/2006 22:28

Dear Mr. Taksin:

Here are the reasons why you must step down without any further delay:

1. You are a cheater- you never worked for Thailand- you worked all the way for your own business interests and family's interests - sitting in the Prime Minister's chair. If You do not want to accept the truth, and step down, you will be exposed soon.

2. You indulged in corrupt practices to further your own interests and that of your cronies. Those who wanted to tell the truth were threatened and silenced -particularly the press media sufferred the most. You treated them with impunity and disrespect. A free press is the very foundation of a democratic system. You behaved like a tyrant and tried to silence them with your power. You are a destroyer of democracy and democratic values in Thailand.

3.You indulged in activities that does not befit a Prime Minister of a nation- you know it for yourself and this list is very long. Thus brought disgrace to the whole nation.

4.You consider yourself and your chair more important than the country itself. You have proved this - by dissolving the Parliament and calling for fresh election when the country is suffering from deficits and financial strains openly admitted by your own Finnce Minister. You did this to protect yourself and hold on to the chair-somehow. When the academics and the educated public who are aware of your misdeeds asked you step down by organising Rallies, you organised counter rallies by calling the innocent and ignorant village folks to fight the educated. Thus you divided the country. No Prime Minister in the world has every indulged in such acts of treason. You are fit to be punished for Treason- for dividing the country's population in so many ways.

5.You caused undue humiliation and frustration to millions of honest tax-paying citizens of this great country, by gloating over your "achievements" of making Billions for your family without the need to pay any taxes to the country. You claim you always acted within the Law of the land.!!! What audacity. You are perhaps the only Prime Minister in the whole world to cheat and insult one's own country and countrymen, and calling yourself their leader..

6. Even if an iota of ehtics and morality was left in you, you would have long back renounced your chair to which you are still shmelessly clinging to. Just look at the neighbouring South Korean PM or Japanese PMs or other Ministers in Asian countries. You caused shame to the whole country and brought disgrace to all your honest and patriotic countrymen. The people finally gave you the slap you richly deserved by their massive "No Votes" . Yet, you are shamelessly sitting in the chair and asking why should one resign when the others have voted you. Do you want to be disgraced in public like the naked Emperor who was brought to his senses by a child. ?


7. Just because you can somehow sit and continue to sit in the chair does not mean that you can command RESPECT. Respect to the Chair is totally different. Commanding RESPECT by one's own virtues and moral and ethical conduct in one's life is another. You have LOST the RESPECT of the Thai Public LONG LONG BACK. But being true Buddhists they are gentle and humble as they always were. Thus you are unfit to be their PM.


8.Elections cannot earn RESPECT to a Dishonest and immoral person . You are what you are- A DISHONEST PRIME MINISTER-everyone in Thailand knows your TRUE COLOURS. Citing the number of votes, if you wish to cling to power- THAILAND will soon show to the World how they will treat their " Marcos " .

My associates have many more reasons to add to this list. Every student in Thailand and his/her family will soon wake up to teach you a lesson. Before you stir them up to angry outbursts, mR. TAKSIN please gracefully walk out.

[GWR]

This appears to be the organization that is promoting OLPC: -

http://www.laptop.org/

Picture of one such model: -

http://www.laptop.org/OLPC_files/orange-rotate.jpg

[Yappofloyd]

It seems that some of Taksins supporters/security are taking the term political thuggery a bit too literally!

Forget about the protection of freedom of expression in the constitution, just go back to the bad old days and beat the crap out of anyone. Very scary indeed when some feel they have the such impunity that they can bash an eldery demonstrator right in front of the TV cameras.

I wonder HM of these thugs are moonlighting police?

[Wisarut]

Now, Thaksin has illigallty armed 8000 Thugs in Black uniform to be in use to Shoot down PAD ....
REF:
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000113771

[Wisarut]

Opinioon 77

For the HONESTY in to the กกต job. (We) Taxpayers should mandate these 5 elected - Election Committee (กกต) members to SWEAR-IN, in front of their Parent’s graveyards
(or alive parent(s), if they are not dead).

What’s a SHAME? - Thailand has 68 PROSTITUTE senators in the house. Extremes left (#74) - If you’re ming, leab or poomtum, just say it like A MAN, don’t need to hide under
these prostitute senators’ skirt like a PIMP

COmrade Yim



Opinion 74

When you don't get what you want, you cry foul or corrupted. Why don't you guy pick whoever you want then and claim that is fair.
Sore looser.. go cry to your Charismatic or go walk again. Our PM will still be here and make Thailand more prosper.
Extreme left

Opinion 73

The block votes are obviously not from individual consciences but reflected the results that were influenced and should not be counted valid. How could it be that 68 senators voted the same if no rewards are expected. These are senators for hired. Their names should be revealed and compared with their previous votes in the senate. They should be reprimanded. This institution should not tolerate this behavior because it is so obvious. SOUCHON, YOU ARE A DISGRACE.
Bustard
Bustard


Opinion 51

This is; in Thai: Sure-Cha-Sa-Poj-Maan maak maak!
Very sad for Thailand na, P.A.D. go ahead to fight further till Tax-Sin and the proxies brought to domestic and Int'l Courts and jailed!!!
U.N. >>>> WHERE ARE YOU ALL?? Why you are working so slowly like a Late Turtle, ha? Why? Don't understand maak maak loei!!
Thadas

[Wisarut]

After the selction of EC, We have learnt that one of those who has become of 5 EC is actually a state prrosecutor can Buy ... His name is Sumet Uppanisakorn.... a disciple of the former Supreme Court Judge Pramarn Chansue ... who is a judge MONEY can buy .... :eek:

Another possible candidate is AI praphan since he was in the Attoney General Office, he to an annual salary of 1.3 million Baht. After he become a member of the Borad fo Director at Expressway Authority, PTT and Thai Oil, his income boosted up to nearly 4.8 million Baht a year .... When he is goign to be a memebr of EC, he'll get EC salary of 1.2 million Baht ... very syuspecious movement INDEED ... since becomign EC will make him lost the right to be Senior Judge until he is 70 ...

// ----------------------------------------------------
Now Maew has made anotehr ceremony at Dhammakaya to prevent the curse from Lunar Eclipse ... according to the advice from Newin ... Durign the ceremony ... He got a Big Treatment from the female disciplesof Dhammachaiyo ..

// ------------------------------------------------------
Now, there is a rumour that his ONLY son got ..... HIV ..... after akign a secret blood testign ... since he loooks more and more like walkign corpse ...

Maew also plan to Kill Prachai Liawphairat ... even thoguh Maew plan the fake target at General Phanlop ....

http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/NaNaJitTang/2006-09-09/13-35.htm

[Wisarut]

Burmese Astrologer E.T. .. The one who is a cunsultant for Tahksin and SLORC
http://www.manager.co.th/IndoChina/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115462

[Wisarut]

Now Those TRT sychophants are rappign against thsoe professors and graduatre students from NIDA ....
http://www.manager.co.th/IndoChina/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115462

[GWR]

Thanks to Asiper (frontpage today) and Khun Wisaruth. There had to be a better reason for visiting Burma/Myanmar than visting Than Shwe: -

[Manager]
http://pics.manager.co.th/Images/549000013481101.JPEG

New "ET" - September 12, 2006
Asiper reports: As featured on the Nation Channel…last night and this morning (left). Her name is E.T. (in Burmese language) She is blind, her leg and arm are atrophied, but she can forecast very correct. The big person and rich person often use her service and she charges at least 50,000 baht per time. She doesn’t speak English. People who go to ask her can only ask five questions.
For Thai people we know that the leader of Thailand, PM Thaksin went to see her and believes in her so much. It is believed that Thai rich person (the PM?) took her from Burma to Thailand sometimes. She forecasted for Mr. Tanchuoi, the leader of Burmese before.

Burmese Astrologer E.T. .. The one who is a cunsultant for Tahksin and SLORC
http://www.manager.co.th/IndoChina/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115462

Today's Nation on ET: -

Disabled Burmese muse guides our superstitious PM

Why do Thai leaders visit Burma so often? To meet ET.

Before you draw conclusions about extra-terrestrials, it might help to know that ET, alias E-Thi, is an astrologer and she knows all about Thaksin Shinawatra. She even knows about the bad and good things going to happen to him.

According to an informed source, ET has been to Bangkok on several occasions. "She would be flown in to meet top leaders and give them personal suggestions," the source said.

ET is also much sought after by the first couple of Burma's ruling junta — Senior Gen Than Shwe and his wife Kyaing Kyaing — according to the latest issue of The Irrawaddy.

ET is a disabled Burmese woman whose speech impediment makes her suggestions incomprehensible. However, her sister translates the blurry prognostications for those seeking her counsel.

Those who have interacted with ET said that she has telepathic powers and the ability to foretell the future. One local journalist said that she correctly mentioned the sequence of numbers on a banknote inside his pocket.

It is an open secret that Thai politicians, especially Thaksin, have used astrological skills from Burma and Cambodia including black magic.

One well-informed source said the prime minister, several ministers and politicians have long respected ET.

"The normal story is when you first meet ET and take out a banknote from your own wallet, ET would be able to read all the serial numbers without looking," said the source.

"Then, ET would speak 'broken English' to convey her message. At one time, the queue was as long as 10 (a cabinet meeting) until ET had developed a headache and had to turn down many waiting admirers.

"ET is known to be very accurate for a short-term event prediction (less than one year)," added the source.

According to The Irrawaddy, before overthrowing then prime minister Chatichai Choonhavan in February 1991, Thailand's conspiring generals were rumoured to have made a secret trip to Rangoon to seek advice from an astrologer. So, they made offerings at a temple in order to ensure a successful coup and retain "energy".

They returned to Thailand without touching the earth, as instructed - always walking on red carpets, travelling by car and aircraft, and then to the seat of power in Bangkok.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/09/13/headlines/headlines_30013488.php

[Scuba22]

The thing is, everybody pretty much knows that all these guys are banana republic tinpot dictators... it's only Thaksin who tries to potray himself as some kind of modern-day techno-savvy global-capitalist with his telecoms and media savvy and satellites etc. etc. How is it that anyone takes him seriously as anything other than a pandering demagogue? And why are all the common arguments against him so retarded? He's getting advice from some random old Burmese woman... shouldn't that be enough to certify you insane and unfit for office? Damn.

Scuba22

[Wisarut]

Political Astrologers
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115968

100 Truiks of ET Astrologer
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115967

Ill-intended Ambition
http://www.manager.co.th/Columnist/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000114914

Astrologer Kijja pointing out that Ai Maew is a regualr customer of ET Astrologer
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115586

Are Cxabinates resolitoon More validated than Constitution?
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115703

Pracharat Party pointoptu that For Sake of National Security, Removign Singaporean Army and Airforce Bases in Thaioland NIOW
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115849

[GWR]

The thing is, everybody pretty much knows that all these guys are banana republic tinpot dictators... it's only Thaksin who tries to potray himself as some kind of modern-day techno-savvy global-capitalist with his telecoms and media savvy and satellites etc. etc. How is it that anyone takes him seriously as anything other than a pandering demagogue? And why are all the common arguments against him so retarded? He's getting advice from some random old Burmese woman... shouldn't that be enough to certify you insane and unfit for office? Damn.
Scuba22

Thaksin speaking on a prerecorded talk show programme aired on Channel 5 Thursday morning. This stuff gets more like Haiti's 'Papa Doc Duvalier' and 'Baby Doc Duvalier' every day.


Thaksin said later his son bought him a black wristband which microchip to cancel low frequencies and prevent them from affecting his brain and heart and body.

"This wristband helps me to have more concentration and be cool," Thaksin said.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30013605

[Wisarut]

Now, Thaksin are willing to Loss SOuther part of Koh Kood and much of Klogn Yai district of Trat (a privince that SUpport Democrat) to gtet 30-year concession of oil and gas in Cambodia ... Also Ban Romklao in Uttaradit to get mroe coincession with Lao government

Thai National Security Issue have been known in Navy and Army for a logn time ... but Thakisin want to put coutnry at the highest risk ONLY for his own gain

AI Kamnan Poh also side with Hunsen to sell out Thailand so he can expand his own Koph Kogn Casino (abotu 300 meter from Boundary Pole)


http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116146

[Scuba22]

Wristband with microchip to concentrate and keep cool. Leading Thailand into the future, yup. This country is doomed - no stable institutions and no competent leadership. Doomed, I tell you, doomed. Thank god for the hot chicks and and great food, let's enjoy it while it lasts. - Scuba22

[Wisarut]

Now, Khun Sonthi seems to have received "Thunderbolt from heaven" so he dares to make a showdown with the delicate National Security ... without worryign about the consequence ....
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116146
http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Inside-akeyuth/2006-09-14/16-20.htm


Sunset for Thaksin
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116327


Moh Mink Tryign to tell the Publci that the plan to Sell Out Ban Romklao to Laos, Klogn Yai - koh Kood to Cambodia is a LIE
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116455
http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-09-14/17-09.htm

ET Astrologet and Car Bonk
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116310

More Car Bonk and ET Astrologer
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116316

From Car Bonk to cabaret
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000115276

[Wisarut]

Ajarn Somkiat phongphaiboon Point out that Even Thaksin is ousted ... it is NOT safe at all since he has come up with 4 - Demonic step plan to be back to Thai Politic.

Step 1: Waiting until the Jutisdiction of His Majest is waining after
October 1, 2006 ... when the good judges in Supreme Court are at retirement ... whiel His is spinning the gfeign news to district Army from Going Coup against him ....

Step 2: Spin Doctors in Action by milling the fresh news and rumours to obliterate the old news .... throguh interviews .... Givign VCD durign election campaign .... to gain more public sympathy from rural areas .... esp those organized & brainwashed masses in Northeast, and North .... As the frist step to Overthorow His Majesty ... and papa prem

Step 3: Usign Machaviallian tricks to fool public at large .... By spnjing even more news about "Down but NEVER OUT" still be No. 1 in the party List .... tyo ensure public Sympathy from the North and Northeast ... He is going to turn Chidchai (or even Somkid and Surakiat) to be his own puppet Prime Minister .... if those from TRT are not convincign publci, he will ask and hire Banharn to do this down and dirty job as puppet PM for him ...

Furthermore, Ai Maew is now sending Ai praphat Panyachartrak to be emmebr of Chard Thai party ... as the way to distract the public ....accordign to the plan of Comrade Mink adn Comrade Liab ....

He DID learn from Senior Minister Lee Kwan Yoo that he should NEVER repeat the same mistake as Dr. M by making the final retirement in 2003.

Step 4: Plan to reclaim the Throne to protect his own selfish interests and cronies's interests from being confisticated by the new government .... by using millions of organized and brainwashed masses in the North and Northeast to demostrate agaisnt the new but Puppet PMs ... This will take a few years to become a reality since his puppets have promised him that tehy will NOT stay as Puppet PMs for mroe than 12 months ....

This reclaiming of the throne is will DEFINITELY be the confrontation that DWAFT even October 6, 1976 Massacre -> a full scale Civil war with NO doubt ->.... since they have applied divided-and-rules tacting which have already taken a deep root durign the 6-year of ruling ... very difficults to change by jsut reforms ... a clear plan to Establish Republican regime ....

REF:
http://www.manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116314

[Wisarut]

Supreme Commander Ruengroj trying to convince Sondhi that there will eb NO loss of land as Sondhi claimed
http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116510

Open Letter from Sondhi to Suprem COmmander Rueangroj abotu the possibel of the loss of land for Selfish interests
http://www.manager.co.th/Home/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116100

Vietnamese Naval fleets reconning around Koh Kood
http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000116513

Opinion 38:

I'm one of the THAI citizens in USA please let me know when and where!!!! i'll definitely go back and fight for our 1" of our royal perimeter!!!
I'm willing to fight and die for THAILAND no matter what how and when.
FREE THAI 2006

[Wisarut]

Ajarn Phichit Likhitkitsomboon of Thammasart U. is still a moutyhpiece for Thaksin as susual ... Now ... Attackign those October Generation
http://www.bangkokbiznews.com/2006/09/15/w017_137224.php?news_id=137224

Ai Kuthem Attackign on Sindhi's claim of the cession of Koh Kood for Gas concession
http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-09-15/18-03.htm

[Baton Rouge]

The man is totally inexorable. I see his latest pre-election pledge is mass transit projects in every province. The bottom line is always the next election with Thaksin, and never the essential needs of the country. This guy definitely needs taking out, since it is obvious that he and his party of political tarts have designs on everything that moves. Pure megalomania!

[Wisarut]

Totally inexorablev Maew? Well, that's due to a big dose of sped pills .... :)

Now, Both UK and USA diplomats said theri governmetn would NOT support that Fatso Faggots from Thailand to be UN Secetariate due to the following wrongs spotted by their diplomats in Thailand ....

1) Thaksin Keerp Attacking Royal Family and Armed Forced, the legitimated insitutes in Thailand ... a clear sign that Thaksin government no logner have ANY legitimacy in the eyes of international communities ...

2) Financial Irregularity of that Fatso Faggots ... Openign the offshore account in British Virgin Island ... with frequent financial transaction despuite of the fact that his own Thai restaurant in Harrod's (Thai House) is sunk into heavy debts.

3) His Sexual Preference which is about to be a Big scandal .... alogn with his/her neurotic habit to sack the bureaucrats in Ministry of Foreign Affairs at his/her wills without basis to convict them at all ...

The former Thai dipoats said the Fatso Faggots hasd made very wrong strategy. He should secure the votes from the Big 5 First andf Formost of all ....

http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-09-15/18-54.htm

Thai Astrologet Pointign out that the obvious candidate for Tahksin's puppets
are not very good ones at all

1) Somkid has been under bypass surgery in early 2006 ... and hsi iois abotu to be in hospuital again by hte end of this year

2) Chidchai is okay ... but heis stars are nto at veyr good position and the stars of TThailand in Year 2007-2009 is not very good at all ... probably anotehr 1997 crash ....

3) Surakiat;s stars ar not at very good position ....

Theerfore ... bter take a look at dark horses
http://www.thaiinsider.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/Political/2006-09-15/14-00.htm

[Wisarut]

Plan to Burn Election Commission Office to Destroy the Eveidence of Election Frauds
http://www.akeyuth.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/SetIndex/2006-06-20/09-59.htm

Bribing Isan People 200 Baht each head to provoke urban riot and insurgency as the way to declare Emeergency

http://www.akeyuth.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/SetIndex/2006-09-19/16-47.htm

For the case of Phitsanuloke - they have paid 1000 Baht for each to provoke riots
http://www.manager.co.th/lite/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000118042

Thaksin is goign to Apply Treason Charge on Sondhi and PAD
http://www.akeyuth.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/SetIndex/2006-09-19/18-05.htm

Thammasak jsut givign an alibi that the Military Shuffle durign Election time myust get an approval from Election Comission
http://www.akeyuth.com/ShowNews.php?Link=News/SetIndex/2006-09-19/15-41.htm

Chidchai Threatentign PAD that the 3rd Hand will purge them
http://www.manager.co.th/lite/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9490000118077

[Wisarut]

Now, Thaksin is declaring EMERGENCY DECREE in BKk a few minutes ago! :eek:

[bangyuk]

I'm very sorry and sad to hear this news. I hope Thailand isn't dragged backwards by this. My love for the country makes me very concerned right now, although I hope that in the best Thai traditions no blood will be shed.

[Scuba22]

I'm hearing the BBC reporter talking about how "shocking" the coup is and how far Thailand had come along democratically since the last coup. It's comments like this that makes me wonder how someone who has so little understanding of Thailand's political development can become BBC's Thailand reporter.

Though of course I hope for a peaceful outcome, I must say that a positive aspect of the coup is to lay bare the immature status of Thailand's "democracy".

Cross your fingers....

Scuba22

[nathawat]

I'm hearing the BBC reporter talking about how "shocking" the coup is and how far Thailand had come along democratically since the last coup. It's comments like this that makes me wonder how someone who has so little understanding of Thailand's political development can become BBC's Thailand reporter.

Though of course I hope for a peaceful outcome, I must say that a positive aspect of the coup is to lay bare the immature status of Thailand's "democracy".

Cross your fingers....

Scuba22

Our democracy is moving backward 15 years by this. You said here come new ear of democracy and "cross your fingers". Wake up man.

[Scuba22]

I honestly don't believe democracy made much progress in Thailand in the last 15 years. Democratic development is about people getting more and more effective in ruling themselves. Thai people are nowhere near this, as various elites who control Thailand have little interest in the people becoming self-ruling.

This is a battle of two personality cults, a step sideways in my opinion. We're no closer or farther away from democracy than we were a year ago or 15 years ago.

Scuba22