Bus Bodies

[ncr]

By the way, when were the modern Euro-3 buses first introduced in BMTA's service?

[The Enforcer!]

I have heard of the Euro 2 but not the Euro 3 - I must get looking when I am outside.

The Enforcer!

[pong]

the nice orange buses, the first were the Merc-Benz, nrs. from 66.001, very soon followed up by HINO 44.001 and Daewoo.
The very first were in dec. 199?, and used in ChMai at the then Asean/Olimpics (forgot the exact name), before they came to Bkk/BMTA. I think they were then based at rangsit and started replacing the so often broke NGV-MAN buses on route 24.AC.

[ncr]

I have heard of the Euro 2 but not the Euro 3 - I must get looking when I am outside.Sorry, I couldn't remember exactly and must have confused something. That seems to be Euro 2 then. I was referring to the modern orange A/C buses.

Originally posted by pong
The very first were in dec. 199?, and used in ChMai at the then Asean/Olimpics (forgot the exact name), before they came to Bkk/BMTA.Was it the Asian Games? They were held in Bangkok (Thammasat University Rangsit Campus) in 1998, but I seem to remember that they were in Chiang Mai before? Could be wrong, though.

[ncr]

It was the South East Asian Games 1995:
[...]
1989 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
1991 Manila, Philippines
1993 Singapore, Singapore
1995 Chiangmai, Thailand
1997 Jakarta, Indonesia
1999 Bandar Seri Bagawan, Brunei
2001 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
2003 Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam(http://www.internationalgames.net/seagames.htm)

Whereas the Asian Games were held in:1951 New Delhi, India
1954 Manila, Philippines
1958 Tokyo, Japan
1962 Jakarta, Indonesia
1966 Bangkok, Thailand
1970 Bangkok, Thailand
1974 Tehran, Iran
1978 Bangkok, Thailand
1982 Delhi, India
1986 Seoul, South Korea
1990 Beijing, China
1994 Hiroshima, Japan
1998 Bangkok, Thailand
2002 Busan, South Korea(http://www.internationalgames.net/asian.htm)

[pong]

the ORDER for those 66.001 EURO-2, both Merc-Benz (397 in total, prob. the allotted money was a little tight), 200 ISUZU 55.001, then HINO 44.001, was for half in '98 and the next 50% in 99, BUT due to early delivery and probaly other games (student or so, I DO remember they went to ChMai first because of some sporting event), they came in late dec. 97 to the BMTA. I also remember a very long que of those being brought to then Bangkapi garage, on an early saturday, to avoid the jams etc.
tyhe next batches, same design, nrs. 67.001 etc, and DAEWOO and not Mc/Bz, came in 2 halves in 2001 and 2002

[jpatokal]

Greetings,

Could some kind soul proofread my attempt at describing the bus types in Bangkok here?

http://wikitravel.org/en/article/Bangkok#By_bus_2

I ride these things almost every day, but sorting them out with the info available on the net isn't very easy :(

[Pas]

Jpat - good description of Bangkok bus system. Perhaps you could also mention BMA's plan to implement the Bus Rapid Transit system?

Jane's World Urban Transport Guide is another good source of info on type of buses / models, no. of fleet in services etc . Not sure if its publication is also available on line. But I photocopied some pages from the library which I can scan in for you if you like.

Pas

[jpatokal]

This is for a travel guide, not an obsessive busspotter. I'm just trying to get the basics straight... and are you telling me there were no mistakes in my current description? :eek:

[Pas]

^yes you're quite right about the information overload - I just got a bit too excited about it :D

I like your description of the existing bus system. As a layperson I can read and understand it very well. I especially like this bit where you said:

Buses stop only when needed, so wave them down (arm out, palm down) when you see one barreling your way.

I couldn't have said it better ;)

[pong]

the BLUE AC should read: CREAM and blue, they also come in 2 varieties, by BMTA itself and by concessioniares. Tell fares are distance related and the MAX fare is here 16 baht.
the ORANGE are only run by the BVMTA and have EURO2 specification. Fares range from 12-20 baht (4 baht higher for same distance as cream).
SOME all-blue AC-buses are run by private concessionaires and also charge this higher afrescale. SOME orange routes have a ower 10 baht fare for short distance (up to 4 kms).
WHITE buses: the BMTA itself also has white buses and is in fact refurbishing many older red buses and paint them white too! mainly in faraway Thonburi though. these also charge 5 baht.
SURcharge on any red or white bus is 1,5 baht/nighttime or 2 baht for expressway (there are NO nightttime expressway buses!)
Besides these big buses, there are also some 200 additional bus routes, many very short and served by red songhthaew. An average tourist is not likely tu use them very much.
The MICRObuses do NOT have garanteed seat anymore, this was done away when they lowered the fare some years ago to attract custom and compete skytrain.
the SKYTrain also has a few AC buses connecting with their system and these are free, but you must have a ticket from the counter for it.

[Yappofloyd]

Jpatokal,

Your description is generally very good. I particularly like your description of the Green buses.

Most of Pong's suggestions are worthy particulalry the night surcharge after 11pm for red buses.(However, pong, Orange buses now have minimum fare of 10 baht, for many months now, so this should be 10-20 baht as jpatokal has correctly mentioned).

I would like to make a few suggestions;

1) Reverse the order of the list of buses with Orange and Microbus to the top as tourists are more likely to catch air-con buses than green/red. I also thought that the Microbus fare is 20 baht which is what I usually pay not 25 baht.

2) Also, provide a seperate heading for the BTS shuttle buses with a link to the BTS website which shows the routes. Given the similar colour of the BTS and Microbus buses it is already confusing for most falang.

3) Also, in your last para. perhaps mention the 'Bus Routes & Map' guide (50 Baht) publishes by Bangkok Guide as it is the only map I have seen which shows routes fairly clearly.

Well done.

[Wisarut]

Naah, BTSC has leased the buses from Bangkok Micorbus to run as feeders bus liens os changing color is IMPOSSIBLE ...

[jpatokal]

Thanks for all the comments! Here's (http://wikitravel.org/en/article/Bangkok#By_bus_2) a revised version.

One question though: how do the express and/or expressway services work? How do you know which white/red buses will use the expressway?

And I don't know if I'm a representative tourist, but I almost always use the non-aircon buses for short hops to/from/between Skytrain stations. Aircon buses are a bit scary because I'm not sure how far they will go and how much I'll be charged... :confused:

[Wisarut]

Look at the Yellow sign in front of the bus ... If you can see one, it is the one whcih go to expresway ....

[jpatokal]

Can any bus (except the green ones) have the expressway tag?

[Yappofloyd]

Not sure about any bus but I have caught many orange, have seen some red govt buses and some white/blue private buses.

Wisarut is right the yellow sign on front or on side.

The Busway Guide is good for this as it lists all the expressway buses. They are really a great option if you need to go to the outer suburbs quickly, well assume there is not a parking lot on the expressway, or cross.

Eg. 1) Orange # 23 runs The Wet to Samrong via Phetchburi rd than jumps on the expressway to BangNa before going down Sukwit. rd to Samrong.

Eg. 2) Red # 2 often takes about 2 hrs to run from Pinklao to Paknam via Suwit. rd but sometimes in peakhour there are some expressway buses which avoid Sukwit. up to the BangNa interchange.

Eg 3) Blue #166 (aircon, private) runs from Victory Monument to Muang Thon Thani via Pak Kret and Takes the expressway from Victory to Thannon Chaeng Wattana. Very quick if you want to go to Koh Pak Kret on wkend.

Also, have forgotton that some buses have limited stops or only run part of the route and not the whole way. This is shown by a red sign but I can never really tell the diff. so I avoid them. This is probably not important for your online guide though.

Also, one other thought....many routes numbers have both govt. orange and red buses. Sometimes they do not run the same route (eg #60) but mostly they do. This is also the fact for some private buses which sometimes have both fan (White with blue) and aircon (blue) buses.

[pong]

agree with above, as I have now only 2 minsleft, post later with more details

[pong]

to possible confuse even further: there are also WHITE AC buses:
series 9001-9052, artic (bendibus) from a mr. Mercedes, on 511 (a main tourist carrier) and the 145
serie 8001-8050 from Hungary, Ikraus (a most famous busfactory, making even more as TATA, but mainly to the old communist world, wonder how they ever got into BKK....), rarely used, but on 502
the remaining few of the former larger series 1001-1050 (Merc-Bz) and 2001-2050 on NGV fuel, now only on the 503
these are all owned by the BMTA itself and charge the lower AC farescale.
but back to basics, dear mr Patokal:
Ive also visited some 200 different world cities and used the bus there. I would not be first interested in the colour of them (which may change anyway) but the ROUTES, fare system, times of operation (like many quirky US and OZ systems that offer no weekend service............) just tell that the colour of the bus indicates the fare, and as cheating with fares is quite rare here (other as f.e. the bahtbuses/songhthaews in Pattaya and Phuket, which are notorious) just give some broad indication. also tell that all fares are paid ON the bus (in many places you must purchase beforehand) and to the conductor (a very rare person for most), and that change will be given.
also NO rideatwill, discounts, returns/tranfsers etc available: every trip pay again.
I would add the bus''customs'' that many buses even wont stop if hailed (barrelling by....), that youll have to run when they stop in a convoy of up to maybe 5-6 to yours, that they will often let you off at red lights or other places, and that seats are offered to people with children. on many BMTA buses seats are marked as such, also the seats for the monks just behind the doors (even farang will have to clear those).
then the signs, as very usefully described by mr Ofloyd: red for a different route, yellow for Ex-way (most exway are AC only though). SOME routes are exway only (like 166, 139,140,141,142) but many have in the peaks only, exway service. the 23 all day (this is in fact a double set of routes) and the nr 2 WESTbound in the mornings and EAST (to SamRong) in the aftern/early eves. these confuse the average visitor most, as the nr 2 is a very much used route (linking Banglamphu-WTC-Sukhumvit)
I agree about the microbuses, but alas, this ever shrinking network hardly offers useful links for the normal wants of a firsttime visitor.
and did you know there are also over 100 minivanroutes (mainly in the outer suburbs), called ''rot thur'' giving very fast connections if you can even find out where they go. f.e. the 31 minivan doubles with the 511 and 2/exway between the SaiThai terminal and bangNa/crossing, costing 30 baht for this.
but thats probably stretching it way too much for the newcomer.

[The Enforcer!]

Is there a site with Bangkok bus photographs on?

The Enforcer!

[Pas]

Kh Enforcer,
There are photos of the different types of buses at the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) website :

http://www.bmta.co.th/engversion/eng_version.htm

[admin]

Tjarco asks:
I was watching the photos of Bangkok-buses. I was hoping to find the make and type of this one: www.sutp.org/images/articles/acbus.gif

Do you know it?

[ncr]

Well, it's one of BMTA's standard non-AC Isuzu buses, obviously.

But I have no idea about the type.... (should be easy to find out - probably just need to have a look at the back of one when I go out on the street next time!)

[garco]

Well, it's one of BMTA's standard non-AC Isuzu buses, obviously.

But I have no idea about the type.... (should be easy to find out - probably just need to have a look at the back of one when I go out on the street next time!)


Thanks! If you know it, please let me know...

[von Hirschhorn]

Wright, this is a IZUZU with bodywork from TBBW (or subcontractors)
As known in the world of busses; chassis with motor and body are different things.
ISUZU for sure should have a type number, I must admit I never noted it.
Well NCR, go out and do so and maybe you know where TBBW is stand for.

[GWR]

At a rough guess - Thai Bus Body Works. I would also guess that TBBW is either based in Ban Pong or Thonburi, as those two seem to be the great bus body locations in Thailand.

[ncr]

At a rough guess - Thai Bus Body Works.Thonburi, not Thai.

[ncr]

Or, alternatively (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=off&Acronym=TBBW+&Find=Find&sourceid=mozilla-search): The Big Bad Wolf..... :p

[The Enforcer!]

Or, alternatively (http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=off&Acronym=TBBW+&Find=Find&sourceid=mozilla-search): The Big Bad Wolf..... :p
Someone been watching too much Doctor Who?

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Wright, this is a IZUZU with bodywork from TBBW (or subcontractors). As known in the world of busses; chassis with motor and body are different things. ISUZU for sure should have a type number, I must admit I never noted it.You must be right. It seems like the BMTA used a generic bus body on different chassis.

Sometimes they have "Isuzu" stuck on the front and back (of the otherwise identical body), sometimes the Hino name/emblem, sometimes Mitsubishi; but never is any type displayed. :(

Interesting nevertheless.... Would anyone have noticed this before this thread was started?

[garco]

Good work! :D

Maybe you can ask the busdriver... He has to know it ;)

[von Hirschhorn]

…Sometimes they have "Isuzu" stuck on the front and back, sometimes the Hino name/emblem, sometimes Mitsubishi; but never is any type displayed…

Well, the type number can be hidden somewhere on the bodywork in tiny letters or at back on the lid of the engine box or not at all. As I said before I cannot remember and normally I look very careful.
On the other hand even the shiny metal letters on front are questionable. TBBW (thanks for the name I have good guessed my self) orders chassis’s from different suppliers or / and builders. Easy to put a name on or worse put another on if you run out of letter stock by accident. Ask to crawl under it and check for any identification on the chassis or motor it self seems to be a hard and dirty job and only possible at the depot although the gridlocks here and there might give you an opportunity. :eek:
Asking any driver to me seems useless as asking in general in Thailand unless you are fluent in Thai language but still. Complicated questions can not be answered out of fear for loosing face and simple saying sorry I don’t know seems to be a lose already. They will tell you anything as long as you seemed to be pleased. Now you understand why it takes years and years to get the bit and pieces together were they belong. Yes Nils, I was aware of the problem even far before this thread started.

[GWR]

There are lots of buses in rural Thailand with BMW and Mercedes on the back. As far as I can see it just indicates that they are locally bus bodies built round BMW and Merc engines. Perhaps we are wrong in assuming that Bangkok buses are any different.

[The Enforcer!]

Maybe you can ask the busdriver... He has to know it ;)
...and the cow jumped over the moon!

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Complicated questions can not be answered out of fear for loosing face and simple saying sorry I don’t know seems to be a lose already. They will tell you anything as long as you seemed to be pleased.It would probably go something like this:

Q: "Excuse me, what kind of bus is this that you are driving? Is it an Isuzu?"

A: "Yes, Isuzu!"

Q: "Or maybe a Hino?"

A: "Yes, yes. Hino!"

Q: "Or might it be a Mitsubishi?"

A: "Oh yes! Mitsubishi!"

:D :D :D

[von Hirschhorn]

Obviously you are longer in the wonderful world of Thai surprises were exactness seems to be a thing from the West. I think we have to stick to something I described before in another thread about the rusty steam engine (and others plinthed throughout the country) in front of the private war museum near the Thamarkan Bridge in Kanchanaburi. Numbers (here thus names of busses) could be deceptive, what you see is true unless the contrary could be proofed with hard – very hard indeed – evidence. The rest is speculation and for the ordinary Thai a hardly noted thing.
A bus is a bus, they don’t give a damn what sort of vehicle is roaming the streets.

[GWR]

I suppose you might also say that it's easier to gamble over bus numbers than bus engines or busbodies.

[GWR]

It seems the traditional Ban Pong Bus Building Hub may be getting some Chinese input. From the Nation, yesterday: -

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006...s_30010651.php


Chinese NGV buses set for local assembly

Yantai Shuchi Vehicle Co Ltd, a leading Chinese maker of natural-gas-driven buses, wants to build a US$1-billion (Bt37.7 billion) bus-assembly plant in the Kingdom.

The company and Siriproject Construction Co Ltd, in cooperation with PS Natural Gas Co Ltd, yesterday signed a contract to assemble 200-300 natural-gas buses to serve Thailand's southern routes.

Piyapat Temjaroen, CEO of Siriproject, a local operator of domestic air-conditioned buses, said after the signing ceremony that Yantai Shuchi would bring in a few natural-gas buses for a six-month test starting next month.

He said if it was workable commercially, retrofitted NGV (natural gas for vehicles) engines would be used, which cost Bt6 million to Bt10 million per bus. Siriproject currently operates 60 of the 300 buses on the southern routes.

"If the test run is successful, there'll be other bus operators to joining the project," said Piyapat.

He said that with rising oil prices, the NGV bus project would help cut costs. "We believe using NGV will help the company reduce fuel costs by at least Bt5 per litre," he said.

Yantai Shuchi, a joint venture between the Chinese government and private firms, has its own technology for producing a new NGV-bus model with a 230-horsepower engine. The new model can travel 300 kilometres on a single tank, compared with 150 kilometres for current NGV-bus models.

Yantai Shuchi CEO Yang Zhang said his company planned to enter the Thai NGV-bus market. However, it wanted the Thai government to support it by eliminating the 40-per-cent tariff for completely built NGV-bus imports.

He said if the government could eliminate that tariff, the company would invest directly in the Kingdom by building an assembly plant for NGV buses. Which was expected to cost about $1 billion.

Zhang said his company was currently looking in Nakhon Pathom and Ratchaburi for a suitable site. Yantai Shuchi is also interested in NGV gas distribution in Thailand. "The company wants to set up five or six NGV stations, which should cost about Bt50 million," he said.

Yantai Shuchi has produced 120 bus models in China. Last year, it spent 900 million yuan (Bt4.25 billion) on investments and posted 1.7 billion yuan in revenue, derived mainly from domestic sales and exports to Hong Kong and Europe.

Energy Reporters

The Nation

[pong]

Its only now that I see this: nov.06. TBBW is indeed Thonburi and NOT based there at all (guess it has to do with the old dealership for all those JPNese). A gaint bus-body factory is alng the Extesion of Bangna trat road just BEFORE CHOLBURI-city if riding BKK-Pattaya, to the LEFT. Just a tiny bit furhte is SAHAKOL busbodyworks, who often take the overflow and also built all those cute MICROBUSESand rehab/rebuild them now that the original microbus has lost any interest in runing them.
ALL BMTA buses came in big batches of a few 100 each. On THEM (=the ORIGINAL state-owned BMTA, buses have a GREEN band under the window) the mark is right, but me too never bothered to watch type nrs. etc. On the red buses there was a batch of >950 DAEWOO which have now all been withdrawn and sold off/rehabbed to use on the many routes privatised a few yrs ago, (white rot ruam) like 9, 30, 64, 103->175, 40, 44 etc. The first 500 were intended for OMO and had a money-mahcine at the back and a very awkward exitdoor all in front= a big step over the motor, this has nearly always been rebuilt. Also the first batches of shorter 10 mr Hino + Isuzu have gone the same way- most are rebuilt with the currently en-vogue 2 centre doors., like routes 14/17/ 51/ and also a few NON-BMTA outer BKK suburban lineslike 365, 356 (Pak Kred-Don Muang-Rangsit) etc.

[ncr]

The first 500 were intended for OMO and had a money-mahcine at the back and a very awkward exitdoor all in front= a big step over the motor, this has nearly always been rebuilt.Khun Pong, what's OMO? What is a money machine? (Sounds nice, where can I get one? :D )

[pong]

OMO= One Man Operation, thought this was a common bus-term, but its now usuallyOPO (person). As you know, a very uncommon thing here in Thailand for buses.
Mon-mach: no not a free ATM or so, I really did not know the proper english word (koey may phen khon anglit, na!). Those DAEWOO red buses, of the former 70.001 series, delivered like in 90/91, were detsined to become OMO. They had 2 very narrow doors, at the very front and the very back, behind wheels. This was thought to be the single entry: with a turncross and thus something to guard the fare paying. At that time the normal fare was 2 bt, and there were still confusing old+ new coins (the old 1bt was larger, but thinner as the current 5 bt),and the new fare was set to be 3 of those new shiny things. The idea was (you get it) to put 3 of those in that ''machine'' which would then release the turnstyle for 1 person; about like one sometimes sees (here in BKK] on paid toilets. NO tickets, NO LT/RATP style gigantic metro-entrance gates. I think that even if you could pass under it= dek/look=child till 1 mtr, it was free. Can you imagine how this would work here in BKK? It did not last long, 1 or 2 weeks at the most. I just by very accident (at that time only occasioanl visitor to BKK) to see it in motion on route 15 then.
Since then the BMTA has had 2 furhter trails to work with OMO=OPO, both failed,miserably. The longest lasting was with the then new orange EUROII AC-buses, which got a 12 (or 10?) Bt flat fare with forced entry front (like any normal European bus) and tickets issued and no turnstyle. The exit by 2nd door was guarded by outward turning poles/bars. In fact ANY BMTA run bus has a 2-person crew, even the free shuttles at Suv.poom and even when they are ''on hire''to transport groups of children/athletes/whatever the govmt has to provide for.
Interesting in this subject; I was in mainland China last year, its developed south-west zone Shanghai-GuanghZhou, and there ANY of its 100000+ buses had OMO which worked well too: you must know that the Chinese are 100 times as much UNdisciplined as out dear Thai is storming buses with empty seats etc.