Happy Happy Joy Joy Bhutan

[jpatokal]

I have to give a tip of the hat to Bhutan's PR department, it's amazing how they manage to get such positive coverage for their little tinpot dictatorship -- esp. when compared to Nepal next door. I wonder why "Gross National Happiness" doesn't seem to include the 100,000+ Nepali-speaking Bhutanese who were stripped of their citizenship and have been festering in refugee camps for the past 10 years?

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/btn-summary-eng

[skunkaroo]

Wow, so we are just "a little tinpot dictorship" eh?

I am Bhutanese, and I am trying very hard not to get offended by someone from another Buddhist Kingdom dismiss my country in such a disparaging manner. Did you stop to think why there were a 100,00 Nepalis in a "little tinpot dictatorship" as you say, or why they want to go to back to the "little tinpot dictatorshop"? Have you heard about what the Nepalis are capable of doing to their own people?

Its not just PR, and you would realize that if you ever visited Bhutan.

BTW. Here is much more balanced, unsentimental view on Bhutan's human rights record.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61706.htm

[jpatokal]

Well, Bhutan is little, it's a dictatorship (= absolute monarchy), and tea is served from tin pots so yeah, it's a little tinpot dictatorship.

You've already pretty much lost the argument when you start calling Amnesty "unbalanced" and "sentimental" (!) and when you start excusing your own government's problems by whining that somebody else is even worse, but even your link isn't exactly a love letter:
• limited right to change government [ed: that's putting it mildly]
• restrictions on speech and press
• restrictions on assembly and association
• restrictions on freedom of religion
• limited political expression
• restrictions on political parties
• discrimination against the ethnic Nepali minority
Also note that I was talking about Bhutanese of Nepali descent who have been there for decades or centuries, and the way you refer to them just underlines my fundamental point: those not of pure Bhutanese racial stock aren't considered Bhutanese, especially as the darn heathens are Hindu and not Buddhist to boot.

[skunkaroo]

Japtokal,
The point of my posting the U.S human report on Bhutan was NOT to try and white wash everything that goes on in Bhutan and make it seem like the perfect place. No Sir! The point of it was to show everyone here that things are NOT NEARLY AS BAD as bleeding heart liberals with holier than thou attitudes (such as yourself), make it out to be. If you had skimmed through the report in even in a half assed manner, you would have easily seen that.

The problem with holier than thou people like yourself is that, in your quest to feel good about yourself, you'll highlight all of the bad things about other people/groups and use that judge them. This is precisely what you've done with the report: Taken the one section that highlighed all of the problems and cited it. Did that make you feel better about yourself?

As for the Nepali immigrants, it doesn't matter what you think or what any of your uppity friends at Amnesty international think. We are not going to let them come into our country and trash it like they have their own country.

[jpatokal]

Do you realize that your post above consists of nothing but calling me names and making bizarre accusations about Amnesty's motives? If you think what they're saying about Bhutan is bad, take a look at their report on Nepal (http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/npl-summary-eng). This, incidentally, is one of the wonderful things about AI, unlike the State Dept they bitch about everybody :D

As for the Nepali immigrants, it doesn't matter what you think or what any of your uppity friends at Amnesty international think. We are not going to let them come into our country and trash it like they have their own country.
Now you'll remember that this lovely chat of ours started when I asked how Bhutanese of Nepali descent -- remember, these guys were passport-holding Bhutanese citizens, until they were arbitrarily made stateless -- fit into the whole Gross National Happiness thing. Obviously they don't, which was, of course, my entire point. :(

[Baton Rouge]

Given the choice of a piece of Govt. PR and an AI report, I'd be less wary of the latter.

I always find it highly amusing :) when someone reaches for that 'Bleeding Heart Liberal' stereotype. It kind of presupposes that BHLs (whoever they might be, b'd if I know!) are running the world and messing it up, when it is blatantly obvious to most ordinary people that big business and vested interests are running the world and messing it up. Another trick 'they' have is to continually preach about moral values, but when someone decides to take them at their word it's back to that BHL stereotype. (Have you ever noted that modern organizational phenomenon of asking people to write 'reflective' reports so you can figure out who's next on the chopping block?);)

[ncr]

An unexpected reference to the Bhutan Happiness Principle:

TNA (http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=22302) 04/06/2006, as linked from the frontpage -

Economists warn Thailand to prepare for world economic downturn

BANGKOK, June 4 (TNA) - Leading economists have warned that Thailand could encounter a new round of economic problems due to global economic uncertainty and the country should be well prepared if US and world economies retreat.
retreating economies]...

Virabongsa Ramangura, former finance minister and deputy prime minister, told participants at a seminar Saturday that Thailand's economy was quite volatile in response to global economic uncertainties, especially capital flows into and out of the Kingdom, which had become larger and unpredictable. Influence from the continuing economic growth of China, India and Russia is affecting the economic structure of the world and it could be problematic for Thailand to cope with a significantly changed economic situation in time if the world economy falls, said Mr. Virabongsa.
[again! now it 'falls'.... what's going on with the economy!?]

He said the current sharp increase in oil prices, terrorism threats and oil hedge funds would also affect Thailand's domestic growth. Dhurakijbandit University rector Varakorn Samkoset observed that the government needed to find a way to measure national economic conditions more accurately because the use of gross domestic product (GDP) figures did not always reflect economic prosperity. Prosperity need not translate to happiness, according to Paiboon Wattanasiritham, chairman of Thailand's Centre for the Promotion of National Strength on Moral Ethics and Values, as the country was facing economic hardships, people should rely more on His Majesty the King's self-sufficiency economic policy.

Mr. Paiboon urged the government to devise a tool to measure the happiness of the people instead of using the GDP, a method which was successfully achieved by Bhutan.

[now, this government is certainly the right bunch of persons to address in this matter; I am sure they will heed his advice :rolleyes:]

Instead of GDP, Bhutan uses the Gross National Happiness (GNH) Index to measure the country's level of well-being. (TNA)-E111