Erawan Destruction

[Scott]

I found it interesting that Reuters was the only source to note the religion of the vandal in the story about Pra Pom. And in the headline no less! Did any of the Thai language papers stress this detail?

My understanding is that it had nothing to do with violence in the South. Was this guy really Muslim?

[Scuba22]

While destroying a sacred shrine is sad, the far bigger tragedy in my mind is the vigilante justice displayed by the people who killed the deranged vandal. Yet, there's hardly any mention of this amid the talk of reduced tourism numbers and shopping mall revenue.

Does anyone else see some severely misplaced values in this incident?

Scuba22

[GWR]

The killing happened about 100 meters away, directly opposite the Police hospital.

[ncr]

Meanwhile, Surakiat Limcharoen, Patumwan district director, said he had paid bail for the two city cleaners accused of murdering Thanakorn and they were back at work today.

"We will seek ways to help them out, because what they did was aimed at protecting the Great Brahma statue. They did not intend to kill the man," said Surakiat.

(From: Security will be beefed up at revered sites: Apirak (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/03/22/headlines/headlines_20003343.php), The Nation)

The destruction of the statue is quite unbelievable, but this is as well.

:eek: :mad: :(

NB: According to the reports, the statue was already destroyed and the perpetrator fleeing the scene; and then they ran after him and beat him up. Now that was certainly "aimed at protecting the Great Brahma statue", with no intention to harm him, wasn't it.........

[airlana]

No doubt the 'lottery hopefulls' won't be happy with this act of destruction.

Seriously though, a sad and useless act. Isn't anything sacred any more?

I first visited Erawan shrine back in about 1978. Became a regular event for several years as we no had no telex and used the telex facilities of the Erawan hotel. Would call in all hours of the night to collect and send our telexes and often spend a moment or two at the Shrine.

One of the few places in BKK where amongst the noise and busy pace of everyday life, a rather unique peacefulness prevailed.

airlana

[Scuba22]

Sad and useless indeed - the news reports have been saying that the man was psychotic. That's a sickness - he needed to be caught, locked up, and treated. How can you possibly claim that beating a man's head with a iron bar doesn't intend to cause harm?

Here's an article from the Onion that May be appropriate here:

Scuba22


God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule

September 26, 2001 | Issue 37•34

NEW YORK—Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.

"Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."

Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called "an unending cycle of violence."

"I don't care how holy somebody claims to be," God said. "If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again."

The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.

"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"

"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"

Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."

God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as "wonderful, pious people," calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.

"This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason," God said. "There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club."

Continued God, "Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some assholes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain."

God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.

"I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades."

Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: "Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp."

"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"

"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm fucking serious!"

Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders began to shake, and He wept.

[j.j. havellas]

I too was shocked at this. A lynching right here on the streets of Bangkok.

My Thai teacher tried to explain the saying "som nam naa" to me - I think this, unfortunately, is an example of when it will be used. :confused:

[Nekochan]

Once Dr. Therayut criticized Thai people of having low moral and ethical standards, people lamblasted him in the web using vulgar words. This includes the likelihood that Thai tend to see everything in their own perspectives. And stick with it.

I see this as a prove as Dr. Therayut said that right.

Much worst, Thai ego-centric mentality does not help much in this situation. If you learn Thai history in the nutshell which states "Siam is located in SE Asia surrounded by Burma, Malaysia blah blah blah....

So we are at the center of SE Asia. And we once reigned supreme.

The World is rotating around Siam sort of.

When people see themselves above all else, including their belief. It is likely they will do everything at all costs by all means to defend it.

This mad man insulted us, he had no purpose to exist. We made that so. We feel no remorse and no regret.

The same mentality applied to these insidents:

Karen rebels killed in a Kanchanuburi hospital (ordered by Mr. Nice Guy Slow Step Chuan). They resisted arrest (?) and ended up with bullet holes on the back of their necks (how?).

Students shot, raped, burnt, hung, stampeded on Oct 6, 1976. Those murderers were an average Joe next door. Mr. Samuk is still around right? and a lot of people like him.

Krue Sae, Tak Bai, 2,500 deaths from the CRUSADE against drug trafficking OK! need any more samples?

And we hardly say about loss of lives, either good or bad.

National security, traditions and nation and everything people use as a good excuse.

This is one reason I belief that Thailand will find it .... difficult to be on the World stage imposing her own values when some are just senseless and unexplainable.

Not only nonsense here, it is universally nonsense...everywhere.

[Wisarut]

Khun Nekochan, ... Have you even noticed the Mural pictures in temples showing many foriegners who did not SETTLE down as "Mara" (Demons) who allied with Lord of Demon to attack Lord Buddha jsut before enlightenment ....

Furthermore, the old laws that prohibited marriages between Siamese people foreigners, WITHOUT ROYAL permission ... This is the one that severed the head of Phra Preechakijkorachak (Samang Ammatayakul) and caused the (temprary) downfall of the Ammattayakul family in 1878-1879 ....

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Well, even though what you said here are RIGHT, mny of my country folks or even many intellectuals who DISAGREE with Ajarn Theerayut said:

"The causes of all current troubles are that we FAILED to adhere the traiditiosn alogn with Nationalism .... The failure which causes the youths to become ROOTLESS and BRAINLESS people! ... Cannot Stand the Storms of Globalizastion" :eek:

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[The Enforcer!]

The destruction of the statue is quite unbelievable, but this is as well.

Why?

Sad to say when this was discussed by Thai friends and I the day it happened, I suggested the two guys would be let out and the case not seriously pursued and I was complimented on how well I understood Thailand!

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

It probably seems a bit churlish to the majority of locals to punish cleaners for doing what their Superiors would have done in a flash. The cleaners probably thought it was part of their job description. (Indeed, it might even have been on their job description in a slightly toned-down form.) Despite the value Buddhists supposedly place on life, I don't think many locals buy into the idea - often opined in leafy suburbs - that a piece of old statuary isn't worth a single life.

[Scuba22]

I had a good chat with a friend last night about this and he mentioned something that made sense to me - we don't really know the circumstances around how the vandal was killed.

After all, here's a clearly violent guy who had just taken a sledgehammer to a statue in a big crowd - one can reasonably assume that he might be dangerous. Did he still have the hammer? Was he threatening people around him with it? Did he swing it at the people trying to stop him? Were the people who were trying to stop him afraid for their own safety and defending themselves?

I can definitely imagine a situation where the killing was a tragic but understandable action, more an unavoidable accident than a deliberate lynching. But I can also imagine the opposite situation.

What bothers me is that no one seems to care about getting to the bottom of it.

Scuba22

[von Hirschhorn]

I have to correct some of the text with my series of the Ratchaprasong Intersection on the site. (2nd link below) Not all pictures I send were posted so the words: here seen the building in progress on 12.2.1999 matches a not posted picture.(same spot seen from beneath and ironically called "Bangkok the beautiful") http://i5.tinypic.com/157magw.jpg
What you see is the progress of building on: 13.04.1996 / 10.05.1997 / 15.03.1998 and in service on 09.02.2000.
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/buildings/erawan/erawan2.shtml