Do you love the City of Angels?

[ncr]

Time for a new poll.....

Especially addressed, but not limited, to BKK residents.

[ncr]

Something related from the Nation (http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/02/23/national/national_20001411.php):

Bangkokians an unhappy lot

Bangkok residents profess themselves to be the “least happy” of Thais, citing family problems, excessive materialism and a lack of kindness in their communities as the main factors in their unhappiness.

So says a joint poll by the Thai Health Promotion Foundation and Abac Poll Research Centre of residents of 20 provinces between January 14 and 22. A sample of 4,416 respondents aged between 15 and 60 was categorised into five geographic areas: Bangkok, the Central region, the North, the Northeast and the South.

“The findings came as no surprise because Bangkok residents face fierce competition as well as environmental and housing problems,” said Deputy Prime Minister Suchai Charoenratanakul, who chairs the Thai Health Promotion Foundation. “We will use these findings in planning relevant policies,” Suchai said.

Only 18.5 per cent of Bangkok residents were optimistic that they would be happier soon, compared to 52.9 per cent of respondents in the South, the most cheery lot of all sample groups. Asked the major cause of their despondency, many Bangkokians complained of family problems and a lack of good role models and political leaders. They also faulted neighbours for being unkind and unhelpful, saying people in their community were generally sour and disrespectful.

“Bangkok residents also complained about materialism, selfishness, shamelessness, lack of conscience, lack of religious morals and emotional solace, as well as the high rates of crime and drug abuse in the city,” Suchai said.

Poverty, however, featured most prominently among respondents in the Northeast. Nevertheless, Suchai said the emotional well-being of Thais seemed quite sound overall.

Yeah - that's what Thai people always tell you: people in Bangkok (as opposed to "upcountry") are no good; greedy, selfish, unfriendly, etc. etc. But I must say I don't really share that view. At least my neighbours are generally not "unkind, unhelpful, sour and disrespectful"......!

By the way....... how to call us forum members? 2Bangkokers or 2Bangkokians? ;)

(I prefer the latter.)

[The Enforcer!]

As Kennedy might haved blunder "Ich Ben Und Bangkokian!"

This month I celebrate ten years of having lived here - and no plans to go home yet.


The Enforcer!

[mdechgan]

The traffic is just terrible.
The traffic causes so much wasted, time, pollution.

Bangkokians have to wake up 4-5:00am just to get to work before 8:00am
I left my place at 5:00am to arrive at Don Muang airport at 9:00am! Barely made my flight!

The infrastructure is terrible! If you miss a turn you are screwed.

Too many taxis, too many trucks.

They've gotta do something about the street vendors also.

[The Enforcer!]

The traffic is just terrible.
The traffic causes so much wasted, time, pollution.

Bangkokians have to wake up 4-5:00am just to get to work before 8:00am
I left my place at 5:00am to arrive at Don Muang airport at 9:00am! Barely made my flight!

The infrastructure is terrible! If you miss a turn you are screwed.

Too many taxis, too many trucks.

They've gotta do something about the street vendors also.
So why don't you leave?

The Enforcer!

[mdechgan]

So why don't you leave?

The Enforcer!

Hey, I was just speaking my mind. Don't have to get so protective and upset.

I love the city, the attitude the atmospere, just the traffic sucks which makes it very difficult to stay in Bangkok.

Instead I try to spend most of my time on the Thonburi side.
Only crossing the side when I have to and trying to limit my hours in the city to nighttime.

When I do cross, I make an effort to leave my car and use any other means of transportation possible. Boat, skytrain, subway, walking.

I alteast try to make a difference, instead of telling people just to get out!

[bangyuk]

Its four years since I was in the City of Angels, and I miss it every day. I love the chaos, I love the smells, I love the sights, and I love the people.

OK, the traffic is hell, and its too damned hot, but there is no city in the world to compare to it for fun and excitement.

[PeterB]

This (http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/travel/bangkokletter.html?8dpc) is an interesting article @ NYTimes on the decline of Bangkok nightlife following the government's "social order" campaign.

Hits the nail right on the head, IMHO. :rolleyes: A lot seems to have happened since the 4 years you last visited over here..

[gwmss15]

well i hate this city? why you ask

I stay hear because of my partner thats all and he refuses to relocate out of thailand.

1. traffic everyone can agree on this

2. the buses are hard to use as all routes need to be remembered and there is not intergrated ticket system of any kind. ie uses a smart card or similar

3. extremely high cost of condos and larger apartments. ie 5 to 10 times the total monthly pay of average thais also above alot of farangs like my self there is no one bedroom apartments (not the all in one room types) around 5000baht a month min starting price for these is 20000baht amonth which the same as melbourne australia.

4. high cost of food dispite free trade agreements allowing low tax or tax free supermarket food imports. why do i have to pay upto 5 times what i would pay at home and 3 times that of malaysia.

5. motobikes should be banned from bangkok they cause most of the accidents and increase the traffic jams and drive like idiots most of the time often expecting you to jump out of the way when the come from behind on a foot path that has food stalls on it. if not banned heavy fines 1,000,000 baht for rding onthe foot path or the wrong way down a street and the bike cut up in front of the rider by the police.

6. why cant the street stall cook food that is not thai like in singapore and malaysia where you can get chinese, japanese, thai, vietnamese, western, indian food from road side stalls for equal cost even in non toursit areas.

7. crap rail network needs more lines and easier access to stations (skytrain) too many steps to climb if you have shopping and bags with you.

8. HOT SEASON is just too much

9. needs many more parks and small gardens all around bangkok including in the north and thonburi

10. drivers who never give way and almost hit you when you cross a road ie slam the brakes on

thats all for now

[Wisarut]

3. extremely high cost of condos and larger apartments. ie 5 to 10 times the total monthly pay of average thais also above alot of farangs like my self there is no one bedroom apartments (not the all in one room types) around 5000baht a month min starting price for these is 20000baht amonth which the same as melbourne australia.

Hard to say ....

4. high cost of food dispite free trade agreements allowing low tax or tax free supermarket food imports. why do i have to pay upto 5 times what i would pay at home and 3 times that of malaysia.

Better learnt to live as a local and you'll save lots of money!

5. motobikes should be banned from bangkok they cause most of the accidents and increase the traffic jams and drive like idiots most of the time often expecting you to jump out of the way when the come from behind on a foot path that has food stalls on it. if not banned heavy fines 1,000,000 baht for rding onthe foot path or the wrong way down a street and the bike cut up in front of the rider by the police.

Well, I have to rely on Motorcycle taxi to go form my home to Donmuang Railkway station as a daily basis though ... Just ride motorcuycle alogn SOis intead of of goign through the main streets (unless you are at urgency) and you'll be safe, trust me.

6. why cant the street stall cook food that is not thai like in singapore and malaysia where you can get chinese, japanese, thai, vietnamese, western, indian food from road side stalls for equal cost even in non toursit areas.

You ask a little bit too much for this matter .... Better hang around food centers at Big C, Carrefour, and Tesco and you'll get what you want ....


9. needs many more parks and small gardens all around bangkok including in the north and thonburi

Agree ... but you can go aorud Nonthaburi - Bang Kruay area ANY Way if you live near Rama 6 Bridge .... or even Koh Kret

[Nekochan]

We need to set the rules and standards with strict enforcement. I do not mind street vendors, but they need vacant spaces or some locations to do the business. These require strict land use planning which we are not good at.

Motorcycle taxis .... they are fast, but annoying particular on sidewalk.

Strayed dogs ... I do not blame dogs. I blame people. People who dump living being like used objects. Have you ever seen strayed Cocker Spaniel or Dalmesian on street?? We should offer those people dreadful punishment (I will not sent them to Iraq, anyway)

Once a Chinese guy critisized (aimed at Malays??) about non Confucious based society where everything was just so relaxed. You feel comfortable and the discipline falls. Not quite organised and systematic like East Asian socities.

His son in running Singapore,right now....

Bangkok needs rules and regulations just like that, but what if people do not want to parcitipate....and we just let it go, KARMA thing!

[Wisarut]

I nearly want to torch the hair of those big mouth female merchants at the spots with lighter and gasolene if the REFUSE to give my way! :p

[ncr]

Well, thanks to everybody who participated in the poll so far. I think the results are quite remarkable - not so much that this city polarizes people, eliciting all kinds of responses from euphoria to self-professed hatred (that was to be expected); no, rather that such a high number of persons actually voted for option 1, seeming to think along the lines of, "Let's not be too fussy about all those apparent problems - I'm lovin' it (TM)"......!

(I am one of them, and I would have expected more negativity from the majority.)

[The Enforcer!]

Hey, I was just speaking my mind. Don't have to get so protective and upset.
Sorry - not meant as such but everyday I hear expats bemoaning the city etc etc yet they all have the ability and funding to leave so I just suggest they do.

I choose to stay here (whilst my partner chooses to stay in UK most of the time) because ....

1) It is HOT! I rarely use Air-Con and I love 35 degrees. In UK I freeze.

2) It is CHEAP! Okay I own my own Condo but all other costs - electric, water, food, beer, clothes are so much cheaper than UK. My monthly electric Bill in UK is the same as my annual bill here! even a pint of Old Speckled Hen (UK beer) is cheaper here than in UK and it has travelled 10,000 km to get here!

3) The people are BEAUTIFUL! (No furher comment required)

4) Health-wise I feel better.

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

It is HOT! I rarely use Air-Con and I love 35 degrees. In UK I freeze.I second that. I don't want to claim that I like sweating, but it's still 100x better than freezing your ass off. "Too hot" doesn't exist for me.

The (supposedly 'moderate') climate in Central Europe is terrible.

[mdechgan]

Many people have discussions about what is worse:
Being to hot or too cold.

If one is cold, one can always wear more clothes and indoors, heaters and blankets usually do the trick.

But if living in BKK, when one is hot, the a/c doesn't really do the trick. Let's say from 36 degrees, the a/c would bring it down to about 27-28. The high humidity and ambient temperatures just strain the a/c units to their max.

I've heard warmer weather is better for people with health ailements, but the pollution in BKK is just terrible. I think one loses 5-6 years life expectancy if one chooses to stay here too long. Atleast try to move to the suburbs or spend a few months of the year somewhere else.

If depends on people's preferences though. The cold invigorates me, the hot just tires me down. But maybe I've been here too long, I miss the cold every now and then. Actually is so hot now, especially in April I don't remember what cold feels like anymore.

What is interesting is that we see many people move towards warmer climates. People in Seattle just hate the rain and retire in Phoenix (dry and hot as hell). Also I've seen many many Finns come to Thailand just to bake and fry under the sun which I think they like very much. They get all red and sunburned!

[mdechgan]

Once a Chinese guy critisized (aimed at Malays??) about non Confucious based society where everything was just so relaxed. You feel comfortable and the discipline falls. Not quite organised and systematic like East Asian socities.

His son in running Singapore,right now....



I agree that Thailand needs more better enforced rules and regulations.
Some things are just ridiculous here.

1) Like how slum dwellers illegally move onto property and have to be properly compensated when forced to move.
2) How street vendors just push their stalls onto a street and block a lane of traffic especially during the 5-6pm rush hour
3) How some street vendors make so much money yet don't even pay a % of income or VAT taxes.

but Singapore? The city state that has problems keeping its own population from emmigrating?

This is what makes Thailand so special to many people. Why we see so many just come here for vacation and "just let it go." Many people come to Thailand to escape from their national prisons and relax!

[ncr]

If one is cold, one can always wear more clothes and indoors, heaters and blankets usually do the trick.I don't know, but for my part, I hate to put on many layers of clothes (and take them off again when entering a hot room), as well as stuffy heated air. As for blankets: all nice and well, but the horror of getting up during wintertime, when it's dark and freezing cold (maybe accompanied by a nice wind and drizzle outside), having to get out of your warm and comfortable bed....... (never want to live through that again)! :eek:

Of course you're right that in the end it's all about personal preferences. But I think it's safe to say that hypothermia is more likely to kill than overheating. What we shouldn't forget, by the way - the climate here is certainly advantageous for homeless persons.

But if living in BKK, when one is hot, the a/c doesn't really do the trick. Let's say from 36 degrees, the a/c would bring it down to about 27-28. The high humidity and ambient temperatures just strain the a/c units to their max.Yeah, it's 28 degrees here in the room right now (32 outside), and I find that to be quite ideal. (Below 26 is cold. *shiver*) Of course the poor a/c has to work against the heat generated by the two fridges and the computer as well.... :D

But maybe I've been here too long, I miss the cold every now and then. Actually is so hot now, especially in April I don't remember what cold feels like anymore.True. But I certainly don't miss it!

[jpatokal]

I second that. I don't want to claim that I like sweating, but it's still 100x better than freezing your ass off. "Too hot" doesn't exist for me. The (supposedly 'moderate') climate in Central Europe is terrible.
Agree completely... and then some, as I come from even more northernly climes than "Central" Europe!

[ncr]

Agree completely... and then some, as I come from even more northernly climes than "Central" Europe!
Also I've seen many many Finns come to Thailand just to bake and fry under the sun which I think they like vary much.No reply from you to this interesting claim, jpatokal? ;)

[jpatokal]

No reply from you to this interesting claim, jpatokal? ;)
What to reply? It's perfectly true. Last Xmas me and an (Asian) friend were looking on in shock and dismay as the 18 Finns sharing our dive boat purposely grilled themselves outside until they were the color of a boiled lobster...

[dick]

Fascinating, that's the word I like to use. Since the first stories about Bangkok came to me from family and friends who visited Bangkok between 1949 and 1955, there was an impulse to collect books and maps of Bangkok. Since my first visit I felt "at home". Elusive is the city. It's an combination of factors what makes Bngkok so fascinating. For me it was the overwhelming infrastructure and the stretch that was the most fascinating element. Also fascinating is the architecture, the combination from old classique with the newly-baket highrise buildings; O.K . I'm not a fan of the structure of the skytrain, but Im a fan of the skytrain. Don't be to negative (thats what I read on the forum), but try to see the positive points. Several more parks, I agree, esp. for the future (I ment the Children), that will be good. And do not think about a central park as in New York, no, I mean more an arrangement like Randstad Holland, where 5 million lived together as in a park-city,what once the target was when they start building a new Bangkok a long time ago.

[von Hirschhorn]

O.K . I'm not a fan of the skytrain structure, but I am a fan of the skytrain.

Yes, the structure seems quite blunt, for example the double deck layout on and around the Rachaprasong interchange. On the other hand so overwhelming in her appearance and outrages that it becomes a thing on it self. The poetry of poured concrete, a stone structure where under the citizens dwarf on the pavement of progress.
In any other city people would cry out but it fits Bangkok in here endless dream of becoming a real metropolis.
Beauty is a non objective feeling one can hate or like and even something in between but standing in front of the Erawan shrine its breath taking, one way or another.
Literal of traffic and here fumes underneath – there must be healthier spots on earth – figurative of the sheerness. A moment of lost and no control in finding a balance. This is architecture well thought or not at all.
It is a man made nature and the flowers are grey.

[von Hirschhorn]

And about Krung Thep, the city of angels, a heavenly thing in more than one perspective after years of dwelling and roaming her streets.
It’s not only for her modes of public transportation or dirty canals, a city ones called by the pioneers Venice of the East. Well, the days of gondoliers is a bygone era, the hustle of today is quite different but certainly not less adorable though in another way. It will take a while to conquer her outer lines and understand the fill and feeling as well. I must admit even after the earlier mentioned years there’re still blanks.
For some on arrival Bangkok is a burden for others a festivity at large. The joy of simply being there and roaming at random the streets once in a while, living there on a more permanent base must be another experience.
Speaking for myself I am not so sure although I know some lovely very green Soi’s. Living in a park like Dick stated as what we call in Holland “the green heart.” A lust garden, an endless meadow with cows and glass warehouses for growing the stuff we need to live.
One should not compare and saying that Bangkok is bad only, is shortsighted. A vivid mix, a living theater, it’s up to us how we like to play. ;)