Former Australian PM insults Singapore

[ncr]

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4468644.stm).

Interesting remark, that...... :p

Anger as Singapore hanging looms

A former Australian prime minister has called Singapore a "rogue Chinese port" for ignoring appeals to save a drug smuggler from the death penalty. Gough Whitlam, in office in the 1970s, made the remark in an interview about the case of an Australian national who is due to be hanged next week.

Australia has appealed for clemency to be granted to Nguyen Tuong Van. Singapore insisted the law must take its course, saying that drugs ruined the lives of addicts. Nguyen's lawyer welcomed Mr Whitlam's support but said his remarks about Singapore would not help.

Mr Whitlam said the Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, should go further by raising the issue at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Malta on Friday. "If [the meeting] is of any use then it should be raised there, because it concerns many other countries - some larger, some smaller than the rogue Chinese port city," he told The Age newspaper.

Nguyen is due to be executed on 2 December after being convicted of trafficking 400 grams (14.11 ounces) of heroin in 2002. Mr Howard said he would not campaign for support in Malta for his clemency pleas, saying that would likely harden Singapore's determination.

Singapore seems to be a frequent target of foreign defamation; I seem to remember that Taiwanese politician who compared the size of the city state to "a piece of dried nasal mucus" (dictionary definition of the word in question) earlier this year......

[Yappofloyd]

Yes intersting remark....

Perhaps would have been better to refer to lack of freedom of the press, lack of independent judiciary or the lack of an independent electoral system in Singapore whilst discussing this case which has caused a lot of contraversy in Australia.

Some federal parliamentarians have suggested that the Singapore Airlines (owned by the Govt ultimately) request for granting Pacific air routes through Australai should be linked to this case.

[onslaught]

I beg to differ.

Firstly, it is every right of a country's to have its sovereignty. sovereignty is defined by having the right not to have other countries interfer in your political, economical and social affairs, including the law.

Secondly, THe australians are trying to make singapore change its laws, they think they are superior enough that when PM Howard appeals to Singapore not to exceute nguyen, Singapore will do it. You must understand that Singapore has been exceuting drug dealers who consume or sumggle drugs above the stated limit. if singapore does it for nguyen, wouldnt it be unfair for the rest who have died? and mroe to the point, would it make Singapore as drug-free as possible? Don't forget, nguyen has smuggled drugs before, so if he was caught, put into prison, went out, didnt repent and smuggled drugs again, wouldnt it be right jsut to punish him for once, because he has missed his second chance?

Thirdly, Singapore's press freedom has significantly increased over the past years. You must note, that the initial stage for a government has to be press freedom, we dont want to remind the public of your bad acts when you have jsut been given a chance to prove your capabilities, which the existing Singapore government has done! Do you know that TT Durai, the CEO the national kidney foundation was charged with embezzlement after a report on gold toliet bowls and taps that cost at least a S$1000 each? would this have come into light without the freedom of the press? dont forget, TT Durai is a very influential person. The Government can protect him by not letting the article from the press to be brought out!

[jpatokal]

Thirdly, Singapore's press freedom has significantly increased over the past years.
Say what? Can you give me one example of this? And can you explain why, for example, the editorial board of Today was fired and the tabloid was rolled into Streats when they started getting uppity? Oh, but that's right, you haven't heard about this because it was all censored. :mad:

You must note, that the initial stage for a government has to be press freedom, we dont want to remind the public of your bad acts when you have jsut been given a chance to prove your capabilities, which the existing Singapore government has done!
What "initial stage"? Singapore's been independent for forty years, if you can built three lines of subway and Asia's biggest port then it can't be too much to ask to grow a backbone during that time.
Do you know that TT Durai, the CEO the national kidney foundation was charged with embezzlement after a report on gold toliet bowls and taps that cost at least a S$1000 each? would this have come into light without the freedom of the press? dont forget, TT Durai is a very influential person. The Government can protect him by not letting the article from the press to be brought out!
It wouldn't have come out if TT Durai hadn't been a bloody idiot and sued SPH, which is a GLC and way better connected than NKF ever was. Incidentally, can you explain to me why when NCSS smelled a rat and denied NKF's fund-raising license, MOH stepped in to override this and let them carry on as usual? (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sg_Review/message/2128) And why hasn't your "free" press examined this?

[onslaught]

Well, from what I gather, i guess you are a Singaporean, and a rather anti-government one. I can't say that I'm totally for the government, and that are somethings in the world that I do not really like the government for. But have you ever thought, how our anscestors were blessed enough to land in Singapore, not some other country, like vietnam, which was seriously tortured by the vietnam war, and some others, plagued by disease. We have to have a sense of satisfaction, a sense of respect for the government, for without them, what would become of us, would we have hosues to live in, our would be out in the streets, have we forgotten about the builders that a set of harsh words is all we have for them?

I seek to inquire the source of information which you obtained the 'sensored' news from. No one can deny that there are gossip newspapers in circulation in Singapore, with gossip news even in prestigous newspapers. More to the point, I would like to request you give me your position in the media, for it is there I have infered you are, how you obtained the news and what your intention is. The re-election for the president has come and went. Andrew Kwan, candidate for the role as president was rejected. Does it mean that the government appoints people to be one of them, not the people appointing a candidate? No, it obviousy implies that Mr. Kwan was not up for the job. Its a matter of integrity, its a matter of respect and reputation. Why did members of his company step up to criticize him? was it beacause of affilation to the government? While we cannot rule out that fact, it seems to be that his colleagues, who have worked with him, has found him incapable of running the company, let alone running the government! what a potential disaster he would have made!

Compare our history with others. Is 40 years a long one. Who built those facilities and convienience for us. Have others who have a longer history attained that? Who do we have to thank?

Suing for defamation is a clear example in your post. Calling someone a 'bloody idiot' is definately not a refined way to express your dislike for someone. Don't forget, who caused him to sue the SPH?

i cannot guarantee the source of the email address, since its a discussion in a group, but definately, NKF got its license, which is your proof. However, I can say that almost the whole of Singapore's population do not know about the NKF case, let alone the ministry of Health. it probably thought that NKF was doing its part, since the organization often stressed that it was in need of funds. Previous auditors may have been corrupted, although TT Durai might have also been smart to conceal the facts. Although either reason can be probable. We need to consider the background of TT Durai. Was he a respected man, worthy of trust? What made him him attain his position of such a immense task and a huge organization? In the beginning, was the government wrong to place TT Durai in charge? Maybe greed took over, causing him to commit this crime? Its an issue of integrity, and I am sad to say that we have lost such a capable man.

An assumption made is that you have accepted the first 2 points regarding this society since the thread reads "Former Australian PM insults Singapore "

[jpatokal]

Well, from what I gather, i guess you are a Singaporean, and a rather anti-government one.
You make a lot of assumptions in your message about me, nearly all of which are incorrect. How about we concentrate on the issues instead?

But have you ever thought, how our anscestors were blessed enough to land in Singapore, not some other country, like vietnam, which was seriously tortured by the vietnam war, and some others, plagued by disease. We have to have a sense of satisfaction, a sense of respect for the government, for without them, what would become of us, would we have hosues to live in, our would be out in the streets, have we forgotten about the builders that a set of harsh words is all we have for them?
I think Singapore is a slice of paradise compared to many of its neighbors, and I do applaud LKY & company for their drive and vision -- I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Singapore has the best standard of living by far in all ASEAN.

However, the one thing that worries me the most about Singapore is the fact that the government is, basically, not accountable to anyone for its actions. This works just fine as long as you have a guy like LKY at the helm, which means that the government is basically disinterested, thinks long-term and takes the right decisions... but what happens when absolute power corrupts, as it always does, sooner or later? If the next corruption case isn't at NKF, but at a government ministry, who will tell?

Andrew Kwan, candidate for the role as president was rejected. Does it mean that the government appoints people to be one of them, not the people appointing a candidate? No, it obviousy implies that Mr. Kwan was not up for the job. Its a matter of integrity, its a matter of respect and reputation. Why did members of his company step up to criticize him? was it beacause of affilation to the government?
Um... obviously? Would you step out of line and hurl accusations at an ex-colleague who was in line to become president of Singapore, especially in a defamation-happy country when saying anything bad will get you slapped with suits? Read this piece (http://www.newsintercom.org/index.php?itemid=352) in Sintercom to better understand what happened.

Suing for defamation is a clear example in your post. Calling someone a 'bloody idiot' is definately not a refined way to express your dislike for someone. Don't forget, who caused him to sue the SPH?
Err... the fact that a contractor installed a S$1000 golden faucet in his bathroom, and that this fact was printed in the Straits Jacket?

[onslaught]

I would describe it as rather interesting for you to know all these facts unless you frequent the singapore forums and news, but i must applaud your interest in the current affairs of other nations, much of which I can say I'm lacking in. After all, the best detective makes the most appropriate guesses, although many a time it can land him into something serious and undesirable...

I think Singapore is a slice of paradise compared to many of its neighbors, and I do applaud LKY & company for their drive and vision -- I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Singapore has the best standard of living by far in all ASEAN.

However, the one thing that worries me the most about Singapore is the fact that the government is, basically, not accountable to anyone for its actions. This works just fine as long as you have a guy like LKY at the helm, which means that the government is basically disinterested, thinks long-term and takes the right decisions... but what happens when absolute power corrupts, as it always does, sooner or later? If the next corruption case isn't at NKF, but at a government ministry, who will tell?


Ah definately, the least we can say and do is to speculate.

Err... the fact that a contractor installed a S$1000 golden faucet in his bathroom, and that this fact was printed in the Straits Jacket?

Partly so, with TT Durai anxious to calm the public down, but infact it got worse