"Ramasun" station Udorn Thani

[airlana]

Not sure if this is an "Engineering" topic or perhaps "Thai History"

Anyway here goes
--------------------------------

The US Military bases and activities in Thailand during the Vietnam War is quite well covered elsewhere, either in print or on the web.

Apart from the numerous air bases in Thailand, one area that is still difficult to get detailed information is that of intelligence operations.

During the Cold War & Vietnam War, intelligence gathering especially radio signals was big business and the US operated a number of high frequency direction finding stations throughout the world including Germany, UK, Philippines, Alaska, Japan, Italy and Thailand.

These were huge installations, consisting of several concentric rings of antenna several hundred meters in diameter. Officially known as AN/FLR-9 they were more often known by their nickname “elephant cage”

The Thailand installation was constructed about 20kms south of Udorn Thani, on the eastern side of the highway to Khon Kaen.

It was capable of gathering signals from several hundred to thousands of kms. One would guess 'eavesdropping' on Vietnam and Laos was its main purpose.

Couple of photos here (http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/airlana/ramasun.htm)

First two are aerials pics showing its huge size. Highway is at left.
Then another photo which I took in 1979.

The Udorn complex was known as “Ramasun” and supposedly the second largest of its type in the world. Literally a self contained 'town' in the middle of nowhere.

Ramasun officially closed in 1976. After that I don’t know what happened. Did the US dismantle it? Did the Thai government take it over? Is it still there?

Perhaps someone can complete the story………………

airlana

[ncr]

Fascinating. I am 90% sure I spotted it (on Google Earth, but the imagery on Google Maps is the same):

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=17.292134,102.869024&spn=0.034878,0.055610&t=k&hl=en

Well, one would think they dismantled the metal structure; but we can still see the footprint in the form of a a dark circle with a diameter of 400 metres. Compare with the colour airphoto. (There's now a lake in the northeastern corner - or it is just a seasonal inundation? -, but apart from that it fits quite well. Note the buildings and the shape of the small forest to the east.)

This site is 16 km southeast of Udon city centre.

[Wisarut]

I just wonder if Rammasun Camp has become Fort Prajak Silapakhom (the name of Prince Prajak Silapakhom - the founder of Udornthani) ;) :D

[airlana]

Fascinating. I am 90% sure I spotted it (on Google Earth, but the imagery on Google Maps is the same):

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=17.292134,102.869024&spn=0.034878,0.055610&t=k&hl=en

Well, one would think they dismantled the metal structure; but we can still see the footprint in the form of a a dark circle with a diameter of 400 metres. Compare with the colour airphoto. (There's now a lake in the northeastern corner - or it is just a seasonal inundation? -, but apart from that it fits quite well. Note the buildings and the shape of the small forest to the east.)

This site is 16 km southeast of Udon city centre.

Yes, that'll be it. Appears much clearer after playing around with the image in photoshop. [oh for some decent high resolution for all of Thailand]

Another photo I have clearly shows the lake. Probably water supply for the 'town' which housed several thousand military at its peak.

No doubt the scrap metal dealers made a baht or two from the metal structure :)

airlana

[GWR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Pacific_typhoon_season

Many sites inform us that 'Rammasun' was the name of a 2001 Tropical Cyclone contributed by Thailand's Metereological Johnnies. The other names from Thailand for the same year were Durian, Morokot, Chaba & Khanun. Durian & Khanun are obviously fruit. Chaba is a flower, I believe. Morokot is an Emerald, but might also be used fror fruit or flowers I suspect. The round shape of these surveillance systems and cyclones suggests that Rammusun might be a flower.

????????????????????

[airlana]

The following quote is from William Bogart's website which 'disappeared' ages ago.


"Ramasun borrowed its name from the powerful Thai mythological "God of Thunder". According to mythology, Ramasun is in eternal pursuit of Mekhala, the beautiful Goddess of lightning. In futile attemps to capture her, Ramasun hurls his huge axe which Mekhala blocks with a magic gem casting powerful rays. The crashing of the axe into the gem results in the thunderclap and lightening we observed. Thai mythology foretells of Ramasun's pursuit of Mekhala which will continue until the world is destroyed by fire.

Over 50 million dollars was devoted to making Ramasun Station one of the finest installations anywhere in the world. It was completely self-sufficient and included its own power plant and water supply. Virtually all facilities on post were air-conditioned and of permanent construction. Streets and sidewalks were paved and fully lit at night. Lawns were landscaped, well attended, and enhanced by a variety of plants and shrubbery."

Unfortunately my knowledge of Thai mythology is pretty basic.

Anyone ?

airlana
.

[ttaaee]

Found the following on this defunct page (www.dreamseeker.org/Eirias/Thai_MekalaRamasoon.htm )


" Mekala and Ramasoon "

When clouds thunder and lightnings flash over the sky in Thailand, a Thai child looks up and spreads her tiny hands and shouts: “That is Ramasoon’s axe and Mekala flees with the help of her crystal ball!”

Mekala, a very beautiful nymph, was born in the frothing white foam of the sea. She was young and blessed with bewitching eyes, black locks of hair and a gay poise. She could fly at her will and she often sported in the air and in the clouds with her crystal ball in hand. The crystal ball was her weapon of protection. If she willed and turned the crystal ball, it shot out fearful flashes of blinding light.

As Mekala had a rather quiet time in her palace, she would frequently slip out, fly through the layers of clouds high and higher through the sky and flit about. Often she would be alone. She loved this sport. At other times, she would fly about with her friends of the same age, sparkling with jewels and in bright and colorful clothes. Mekala had the crystal ball at all times, concealed within her clothes.

The soft beauty and charm of Mekala attracted Ramasoon, born in the storm clouds and with rain as his cloak. The greatest friend of Ramasoon was Rahoo, the god of Darkness. Ramasoon always carried his axe as his weapon. If Ramasoon so willed, he called upon Rahoo to create thick darkness all around.

Ramasoon had the evil desire to capture Mekala and carry her away to his den.

One day, Mekala was frolicking amongst the fluffy clouds that lay in clusters high above the sky. Suddenly, there was a thick layer of black and ominous clouds rolling towards her. It was Ramasoon who was rushing to ensnare the lovely nymph, and Mekala understood the look in his greedy eyes. She rushed up to meet the wicked Ramasoon as he kept himself concealed under the cloak of thick clouds, for she could see through his cover with her celestial eyes. She lost no time bringing out her crystal ball and willed that the ball should send out its blinding flashes.

Ramasoon threw his deadly axe to injure Mekala so that she could not flee, and there was a thunderous crash of clouds and deafening sound. But Mekala’s crystal ball did not fail her; the blinding light had made Ramasoon miss his mark. After each flash of blinding light came the sound of the axe’s crash as it missed its mark and slipped down in the layers of dark clouds. Finally there came the heavy rain at Ramasoon’s will and under the cloak of pouring rain Ramasoon withdrew.

Mekala returned to her beautiful palace, undoing her dripping black locks of hair to dry them. The crystal ball was carefully put away.

Despite the danger, Mekala remained undaunted. She continued her sport, but always with her crystal ball. Ramasoon could never give up his infatuation for the beautiful nymph. He often tried to trap Mekala and lame her with his deadly axe. Always, Mekkala escaped with the help of her crystal ball and its blinding flashes of light.

That is why we in the world of men see the flash of lightning when Mekala’s crystal ball flashes blinding rays into Ramasoon’s eyes and hear the deafening crash of thunder as his axe misses its mark. And the rain falls heavily as the defeated Ramasoon withdraws, denied the object of his desire.

Story Adaptation from:
Folk Tales of Thailand by Roy Chaudhury

[ttaaee]

There is a picture (http://www.udonmap.com/file_upload/fileupload/US_ARMY_CAMP_NONG_SUNG.jpg) of the structure on this forum (http://www.udonmap.com/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?session=E9xlg0oV2Bl0GGqpRwfwnuk1cM&forum=27&thread=460&page=1)

Polehawk, a member of the forum says

Thank you both, TWalk and Admin. The Ramasun pic brings back memories for me. I helped install a microwave radio site at Ramasun in early '67 when it was a tent city and the elephant cage wasn't there yet. An interesting snippet: the LOS (line-of-sight, not Land of Smiles lol) radio path to Udorn AB was surveyed first and the outside plant engineers found that a tree at the Ramasun end was obstructing a clear shot. Cutting down the tree would have been a simple solution but the contractor had to get local Buddhist monks to first remove phi's (spirits) from the tree and move them to another tree in the vicinity. The monks could very well have come from the Temple in the picture. Anyway, work progressed smoothly after the blocking tree was removed. Hard to imagine a 10 lane highway now outside of the facility.

[ttaaee]

The picture mentioned above is this one:

http://www.udonmap.com/file_upload/fileupload/US_ARMY_CAMP_NONG_SUNG.jpg

A view of the Ramasan US Army Camp in Non Soong from the top of the water tower next to the Temple. In the background is a large metal beam structure which was the main antenna there. It was called "The elephant cage" by the people living nearby. In the lower left part is the entrance gate to the Non Soong Temple. Photo By Tim Walker

Source: http://www.udonmap.com/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?session=khDX9krJrmcdlSkmWxidfArc3g&action=&forum=27&thread=460&user=&query=&msgid=&page=1&sort=&do=&key=&others=

[ttaaee]

Also found this one here (http://us-seasia.tripod.com/id6.html)

http://www.geocities.com/ttaaee/ramasun.jpg

Source: http://us-seasia.tripod.com/id6.html

[airlana]

Great material ttaaee - thanks

That's an interesting story about 'Ramasoon' and easy to see why the station was so named.

I guess there are quite a number of ex-service people around who worked at Ramasun. No doubt there's all sorts of snippets of information out there - must take a look at some of the US military forums

thanks again

airlana
.

[bangyuk]

There was a similar installation in Bedfordshire, UK, which was manned by the US's largest group of personnel in Europe, numbering several thousand.

Strangely, I seem to remember it was also nicknamed the elephant cage, rather less apropriately than the one in Thailand!

Ian

[ASA73-80]

I was stationed there and yes the base was totally self sufficient. We monitored everything in southeast asia. The antenna was 366 meters across.
1200 US personel and employed 1400 Thais, and there was no "lake". The water supply was in water towers. Below is part of my AOL "signature"


Intelligence and Security Command / Army Security Agency
33S2H Electronic Warfare/Intercept Systems Repairman/Instructor, 1973-80
Electronic Maintenance School, Ft. Devens, Mass, 73-74, 77-80
7th Radio Research Field Station, Cobra-7 Ramuson, Thailand, "Elephant Cages", 74-75
Torri Station, Okinawa, 76-77
Thailand, Laos, Cambodia TLCB Member # 472 http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org
VFW Post 7674, Life Member
American Legion Post 235
National Army Security Agency Association http://www.nasaa-home.org
National Rifle Association

[airlana]

Welcome ASA73-80 and many thanks for your input.
Every bit of information helps in putting together the story of this facility.

Another one that's of interest is the 17th Space Surveillance Squadron radar station at Kho Kha a few miles south of Lampang in northern Thailand.
Primary use was tracking People’s Republic of China missile launches and southerly launches from the Soviet Union during the 1970's.

The radar antena and buildings were still there many years later and dismantled in late 1990's

airlana

[ncr]

A description (http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/classic_bullseye.htm) of the technology at FAS.org. They call it the "AN/FRD-10 [newer model than during the Vietnam war era?] circularly disposed antenna array (CDAA)".

Also given are the current operating locations (NSGA = Naval Support Group Activity):

* NSGA Brawdy, Wales
* NSGA Diego Garcia
* NSGA Edzell, Scotland
* NSGD Guam
* NSGA Hanza, Japan
* NSGA Homestead, FL
* NSGA Keflavik, Iceland
* NSGA Rota, Spain
* NSGA San Diego, CA

Actually I found this info completely by chance, when perusing the results of The Register's Google Earth "Spot the Black Helicopter" competition (http://www.theregister.com/2005/10/14/google_earth_competition_results/) (also highly recommended stuff). On page 9 they mention the AN/FRD-10 facility at the Rota US/Spanish Naval Base near Cadiz (Andalucia). Satellite image here (http://www.theregister.com/2005/10/14/rota_elephant_cage.jpg). And contrary to what they said, the imagery is still there - make a search for "Rota, Spain" in Google Earth, then look at the northwest corner of the airstrip. Or see Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rota,+spain&ll=36.656413,-6.366148&spn=0.015438,0.041096&t=k&hl=en). The outer circle (not the antenna ring proper) is roughly 400m in diameter, as that one near Udon.

Rota Base was already mentioned earlier (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/20/google_earth_democracy_two/page2.html) on The Register (images 6,7,8,9 on the page).

(The San Diego facility is here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.593540,-117.129289&spn=0.004285,0.006951&t=h&hl=en), by the way.
Edzell (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Edzell,+Scotland&ll=56.808773,-2.603931&spn=0.021069,0.082191&t=h&hl=en)
Homestead (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Homestead,+FL&ll=25.372181,-80.421724&spn=0.017387,0.041096&t=k&hl=en) - just outside the high-res area; this (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Homestead,+FL&ll=25.449901,-80.429020&spn=0.004344,0.010274&t=k&hl=en) nearby installation also features intriguing shapes...)

Could not find the remaining five yet. The competition is open, try your luck!

[airlana]

The AN/FLR-9 was the system operated by USAF Air intelligence Agency

Similar version operated by US Navy was the AN/FRD-10

Know idea what the technical differences are/were, nor which was first.

I guess we can assume the current system is much improved compared to "Ramasun" of the Vietnam War era.

airlana

[Gary S]

Wow where to begin. Quick history is @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/wullenweber. Basically the technology was developed by the Germans during WWII. After the end of the war Russia got some of the developers and the "west" got the rest. How the "West"and it allies used the technology: 3 variats of the Wullenweber was developed -
1. The AN/FLR-9 which was used by the USAFSS and Army (ASA)
2. The AN/FRD-10 which was used by the U.S. Navy (NSG)
3. The AN/FRD-13 Pusher system. Exactly what that means, I do not know. However, my understanding the FRD13 is the same as the FRD10 but has a smaller footprint, space issue in UK, and was used by the British.
OK, the really interesting topic is how the "Allies" had the ability to intercept ALL HF and DF traffic in the northern and parts of the Southern Hemispheres.

Note: as far as I know the the Air Force, Navy, and Army did not directly share information. In other words each had their own missions and for the most part had their own antennas.

The current name of the U.S. Air Force Intellegence branch is AIA, air intelligence agency. Prior to that is was the ESS and ESG, Electric Security Squadon or Group. Prior to ESS and EST, from about 1960-1973 or so, it was name the U.S. Air Force Security Service. The point is that if you wish to do research about this agency during the 1960-1973 period USAFSS would bring better results than AIA.

Moving along. The Air Force had facilites at Misawa, Japan; Karamursel AS, Turkey; Clark AFB, Philippine Islands; San Vito, Italy, RAF Chicksands, UK;
Elmendorf AFB, Alaska. The range of the FLR9 is between 20 and 5000 Kilometers. If you were to spread out a world map, pin point each of the FLR9 antenna, "circle out" a 5000 klick range of each facility you might just be amazed of the coverage.

Now, the U.S. Navy had a similar array, AN/FRD10, with the same approximate "range". There were at least 3 on the U.S. east coast, 3 on the U.S. west coast, 1 at Guantanimo(sp), Cuba, 1 at Diego Garcia, and 2 others I believe.

Moreover the U.S. Army had FLR9's at Udorn, Thailand; and Ausberg, Germany. In addition to all the FLR9s and FRD10's plus the FRD13 Pushers, there were countless smaller arrays dotted all over both the Northern and Southern Hemisphere, but mostly Northern. Overlaping all the array's provided unprecedented HF/DF intercept capabilities.

A few side notes:

1. The U.S. Air Force overall program was called "Iron Horse"
2. The U.S. Navy overall program was called "Bullseye"
3. The U.S. Army - don't know.

4. There are 2 FLR9's active as of 1/10/2006: Misawa AB, Misawa Japan, and Elmendorf AFB, Elemendorf, Alaksa.

5. While it has been said all FRD10's have been deactivated. The facilities at Imperial Beach, California and Wahiwa, Hawaii seem to have a lot of cars in their parking lots. Personal visual during 2005.

6. There is a difference between the FLR9 and FRD 10. While I do not pretend to understand it the FLR9 is "coaxial" and the FRD10 is something else. I think other than that and some bandwith there are the same???

The above is a bit of a stretch regarding Udorn history, but it is not really suprising that a FLR9 ended up in S.E. Asia. Since the declassification of Iron Horse, Bullseye, along with a huge quanity of cold war info it is now possible with abit of "mucking about" on the internet to partially recreate the intelligence gathering that was going on. Also, the Soviets had about 20 of the Wullenwebers.
I do apologize again for meandering off.

Gary S.