SkytrainExtensions:3 more Samak

[admin]

<This is an imported thread from the previous 2B forum discussing the Skytrain bridge (http://angkor.com/2bangkok/Skytrain/taksin.shtml)>

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Ron Morris 4
08-07-2003 08:40 PM ET (US)

Toward the bottom of this page
http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Skytrain/taksin.shtml
there are some articles about the apparent government opposition to the Skytrain ("Political vendettas doom Skytrain extensions"). However, it appears that in recent months the extensions are going forward.

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Leng 3
08-07-2003 02:34 PM ET (US)

oh, really! But from what I've read from a newspaper, it said that it will be completed earlier???

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JJJ 2
08-07-2003 08:08 AM ET (US)

Really? I would like to know as well. Please share.

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A frustrated Farang! 1
08-07-2003 12:13 AM ET (US)

Does any one know the inside political problems which might be facing this project... please share it with me...
Thanks
ps; there is a rumour that the project will be delayed! surprised, Surprised!!!!

[admin]

<This is an imported thread from the previous 2B forum discussing the
The five contractors competing for BTS extensions (http://angkor.com/2bangkok/Skytrain/bts03.shtml#78)>

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Wisarut 2
08-14-2003 04:36 AM ET (US)

Khun Praderm (Pradoem),
BTSC expected that The first Phase of Taksin Extension
(Saphan Taksin - Taksin Intersection) will be done and opened on December 5, 2004 while Samrong extension will be done and opened on December 5, 2006 ... The reason for
faster opening date fro Taksin ewxtension is due the medification of Phaseecharoen Eelevated Way .... At least the faster opening date for Taksin extension will help picking up the passengers from Thonburi side of BKK who have relied upon the feeder buses ....

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Praderm 1
08-14-2003 01:30 AM ET (US)

Does the entire extension has to wait for its completion such as Samrong expectedly being completed in end of 2006? Will it be possible that each station starts operation upon its completion?

[Kiku99]

yeah, i really think that the govt. should start the project as soon as possible. And make sure to get the new contract signed before the old one finishes. so the construction can be continuing without any interuption.

[ncr]

RE: Ratchadamnoen Avenue project & mass transit, 2bangkok.com, 20 September 2003

Khun Wisarut,

Great to hear there are plans for a western Skytrain extension (though this one will probably have the lowest priority of all). You know, I cannot look at the National Stadium station on a route map without feeling physical pain.... It is so ridiculous to have a Central Station where two lines intersect, just to have the Silom line end after another 300m, and just one more station. Who came up with this route layout anyway? Couldn't they have built it at least up to Rama VI or Yotse? No question, it must be extended one day.

But as far as the "green line subway" is concerned, do you know where and how they intend to construct the transition from the elevated to the underground section? Must be pretty complicated and space-consuming. Are there any more details about the mass transit systems in the "Manager Daily" article (http://www.manager.co.th/asp-bin/Viewnews.asp?NewsID=4627271553873) you mentioned?

[Wisarut]

Too Bad Khun NCR, They haven't come up with the way to
put the Western Extension to Sanam Luang to become
a subway. However, guess that the space parallel to Expressway is an ideal pleace to do so ... Othse, the land
exappropriation will be applied and it will be a real pain to the
neck to do so ....
Too bad, they considere the area beyond National Stadium has not attraction point to extend ... the area what should be the
target is Bo Bae Garment Market - the intersection of Klogn Saen Saeb and Klong Phadung Krungkasem ... However, the very clamped space to put those pillrs on have barred the mfrom doing so ... and it requires to go across the railway ....

[Robert Stadler]

Hi Everybody

I wonder if anyone know a good map with the planned and suggested skytrain extansions ?

Best regards

Robert

[Robert Stadler]

Hi

I wonder if the north extension will be close to AIT (Asian Institute of Technology) and Thammasat University ?

Regards


Robert

[Wisarut]

Khun Bobby,

Nahh, it ain't go to Thammasart University Rangsit Campous or AIT! It'll head to Lam Lookka Suburb instead since that Big Nose
Governor Samak would liek to please those Air Force Top Brasses who set their retirement castles in the area closed to RTAF HQ.

However before goign to Lam Lookka area, iy must pass though very dense area from Mochit to Saphan Mai .... and go thoug h RTAF area (up to Air Force Academy) ....

Probbaly, BMA don't want to have bitter argument with the Highway Dept who oen the land along Phaholyothin Road from National Memorial (AKA Si Mum Muang Market) ...

Therefore, the extension along Phaholyothin road from
Si Mum Muang Market and beyond is nto possible without
cooperation from Highway Dept .... However, Highway Dept feel afraid that Skytrain extension will zap the customers of
Donmuang tollway ... Think abotu it!

Now trhe Traffic Policy Office come up with the bus at the middle of the road as feeder to Skytrain ... However, I don't think it will work as the way it should be .... Failture for that kidn of bus has
made me feel very distrust on such scheme ...


Wisarut

[Robert Stadler]

What do you guys think , will 2004-2005 be wasted years for the skytrain extensions ? will the project will continue during 2006 ?
Or will restarted earlier during 2004 or 2005 ?

Lets hear some predictions/guesses


Best regards


Robert

[Wisarut]

Khun Bob,

Well, even though the constuction have been on the hold for now ... but the mounting pressure from Thonburi side of BKK as well as the goverment pressure for Mass transit system expansion will force the constrctiuon of extension to be resumed as well as restarted ... However, BMA and BTSC may have to pay very high price for this matter ....

[Robert Stadler]

Khun Wisarut,

What are your guess about then the constructions will restart on the taksin extension ? and then will the start be on the constructions on the other proposed extensions ?

Best regards

Robert

[The Enforcer!]

A learned Thai friend of mine has suggested that the lack of a Thai Rak Thai gubernatoral candidate is a reflection of the fact that TRT thought it could wade in last year, take control of all Mass transit at little cost (i.e. 'nationalisation without compensation') and provide vote winning extensions to Thonburi and Bangna.

Now that has back-fired thus they are keeping out of the running!

The Enforcer!

[admin]

All the articles about the 'progress' of the extensions is here:

http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Skytrain/taksin.shtml

[The Enforcer!]

What was Transport Minister Suriya talking about on Friday (Bangkok Post Saturday) when he says he has approved the SKYTRAIN extension to Tha Phra and Bang Khae?

Wasn't that the Metro?

The Enforcer!

[Hitesh]

clearny he has no idea what he is talking about.
ask him about his 7 series bmw and he will feel more comfortable.

[The Enforcer!]

Originally posted by Hitesh
clearny he has no idea what he is talking about.
So what do we currently know about the Skytrain extensions?

Will Samrong and Taksin/Phetkasem get the go ahead soon?

The Enforcer!

[Hitesh]

Originally posted by The Enforcer!
So what do we currently know about the Skytrain extensions?

Will Samrong and Taksin/Phetkasem get the go ahead soon?

The Enforcer!

I have not heard any actual reports so all I am left with is speculation. People do agree that the skytrain extentions are delayed because of political differences. Be is because Samut Prakan did not vote TRT or because public transport (busses) there are controlled by well connected individuals.
We all know the Taksin extension could have been opened by the end of this year because the structures have been complted for a long time. Reporters claim the government want to purchase a majority stake in BTSC before giving them permission to lay the tracks across the river. Once again, this is all speculation.

The government plans of nationalising BTSC and BMCL, merging them and then privitising them again does seem ridiculous and reeks of corruption.

[The Enforcer!]

Originally posted by Hitesh
The government plans of nationalising BTSC and BMCL, merging them and then privitising them again does seem ridiculous and reeks of corruption.
On the basis that there is absolutely zero benefit being public owned as opposed to privately I have to agree that there is some alterior motive.

System integration, i.e. joint ticketing, joint promotions etc can be done without common ownership.

Let's hope 2005 is a year of Transport movement!

The Enforcer!

[Nekochan]

Feb 2005?

I think we may need to wait a little bit longer until after Feb 2005. At that time Mr. Taksin and his TRT fellows will be back in business again.

I remembered they would have had 5 years to go to complete mass transit projects (they announced that 6 years' plan on Feb 23, 2004).

As projects are proceeded, they will take all credits that they solve BKK traffic gridlock.

Apirak .... WHO?

[The Enforcer!]

Originally posted by Nekochan
Feb 2005?

I think we may need to wait a little bit longer until after Feb 2005. At that time Mr. Taksin and his TRT fellows will be back in business again.
I am betting on a November 2004 election but even if we must wait until February, I think that once they are tidily 'in' for another four years, nothing new will happen on the transport front!

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

Guys!

At this Government TRT Fair this week, there is (I am told) a model of all the new Mass Transit systems ... including the two Skytrain extensions!!

Does this mean that the Government is giving BTS permission to proceed now?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

No, Not Yet ... and BMA is aksing the cental government to help BTS to construct Taksin extension ... and BMA HAVE to lobby Khun Ying Photjaman so that premier Thaksin would approve such a deal.

[The Enforcer!]

Originally posted by Wisarut
No, Not Yet ... and BMA is aksing the cental government to help BTS to construct Taksin extension ... and BMA HAVE to lobby Khun Ying Photjaman so that premier Thaksin would approve such a deal.
How sad - why can't they stop treating the Skytrain like a football!


The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

Read in the Nation today that MRTA are to press ahead with 2 new lines and 2 extensions but BTS is being refused permission for extensions!

It is criminal!


The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

From yesterdays 2Bangkok ....

The Skytrain is five years old - December 5, 2004
"Finally, in the last two weeks came news that the Skytrain was attracting more passengers, mainly from synergy with the newly opened subway, and would be able to finance the extensions on its own and implement joint-ticketing without involving the government."

When was this announced ?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Thsi News has been report around Dec 3-4, 2004

[admin]

It's from this article--BTS show the results after 5-years in service: 431 million passenger and counting - translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Manager Daily, November 30, 2004
http://angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/Skytrain/index.shtml#5th

[The Enforcer!]

Originally posted by admin
It's from this article--BTS show the results after 5-years in service: 431 million passenger and counting - translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Manager Daily, November 30, 2004
http://angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/Skytrain/index.shtml#5th
That is good news. The bad news is, I suppose, the story carried over the weekend that the trackbeds laid already are opposed by OTP and will cost a fortune to re-align!

The Enforcer!

[mrtfreak]

could someone explain why the extensions are currently being held up or taking a long time to complete? thanks.

[Wisarut]

It is ALL about Politicking! Those Who run BTSC and BMCL are the supporters of Democrat . For the case fo BTSC, it is Khun Kasem Jatikawanit's and hsi wife eho have strong connections with Loxley and Kasikorn Thai Bank ... both are the staunch supporters fo Democrat Party.

For the case of BMCL, it is Ch. karnchang who is another supporters of Democrat party - esp Sanm Bin Nam Lien faction whcih has beocme the main force behind Mahachon Party ... after beign reject by New Millenium faction inside Democrat.

Therefore, Ai Suriya and Premier Thaksin are trying to snatch the credit for system expansions for themselves ... by imposing Nationalization of BTSC and BMCL to become government's property and the offer IPO for theri CRONIES.

For the case of Ch Karnchang, the are will to sell the BMCL stocks
since the goveremtn has offered ucrative contractor deals if the agree to sell theri stocks to the governemnt ....

Furthermore, BBL has already taken over the ailing Natural park ... so BMCL stocks are now within the reach of Premier Thaksin and Co.

(BBL = Bangkok Bank PCL - the major creditor and benefactor of TRT -> whoe is the one who help Thaksin's business os premier Thaksin has become a billionair)

However, the case of BTSC is quite tough even though ITD agrees to sell the stocks to the government so as to be qualified for lucrative government contracts, Thanayong REFUSE to follow the suit ....

Furthermore, TRT are goign to PUNISH these Bangkokians who vote for Khun Aphirak (Democrat Candidate) by delayign Skytrain extensions. Furthermore, the rivalty between BMA and OTP are very fierce ..... for Skytrain extensions, Soutehrn Bangkok Transportation center and BRT .... same can be said to the continuing conflicts between BMA and BMTA about the Bus Reforms and the dragging disputes between BMA and SRT abotu Chatuchak Weekend market.

See .... it is the politic have delayt the projhect implementations ..

[mrtfreak]

oh, i understand. thanks wisarut for the explaination. in singapore's case, the north-east line runs through opposition party ground. there was a dispute as to wether Potong Paisr MRT station would be opened or just left with trains passing through. it was in an opposition district. however, the PAP (people's Action Party, ruling democratic party) decided to open the station in the end. i think this was to show that the PAp does think about its citizens and hopes that Potong Pasir would vote for them at the next General Elections. couldn't the thai govt do that too?

[Wisarut]

Yeah, I think that Thaksin could use his power to authorize BMA to handle BTS extensions but the vested interests within TRT badly want to PUNISH the Bangkokians who vote for the Democrat and they want to SELL more cars ... Think about it!

However, Democrate could not come up with any good alternative candidtes for MPs either since many of them (such as Ai Ong-art Klamphaiboon) have keep using verbal attacks the government and they EVEN act more like the 5th column (enemies within) whcih deserved TREASON charges ....

[Nekochan]

They act on their own interest. So, we can vote them out. But eventually they will be back to haunt us anyway.

Any solution??

I think they should be given some orders to do something.

Just like they (suddenly) act diligently on campaign against smoking after Dec 4.

But, what have they been doing for the last 4 years?? Particularly Lady Sudarat?

BTS will finally go for extentions as long as they attract more customers and become more robust.

[dick]

And then for my article: what is a save way to talk about the extension. The article will close januari 1st, and I dont know yet what we can write with conviction about the extension. I mean a date (!?!?) of opening.

[The Enforcer!]

Don't hold your breath!

IF Taksin wins the General Electionon 6Th February witha large majority you can expect severe changes to the transport ownership map and hence expectation of extensions!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Ahoerstemeier,

Thanks for the info. It seems the map is both somewhat recent and perhaps a result of some BMA hype? Don't worry about the full scan.

Well, if you read the conflicts between SRT and BMA ... it is UNLIKELY that BMA would be able to extend the line along Mahachai Railway at all .... SRT would NEVER allow that deliqent BMA to do THAT! :D :p

Now, Governor Abhilux has turn that Onnut - Suvannabhum Airprot route into BRT instead so as to complement but NOT compete with Suvannabhum Airport Link ... He is a lot more a compromiser than that Autocratic Samak.

Khun Wisarut,

Yes the ongoing SRT/BMA spats are a concern but SRT doesn't also seem to get along with MRTA & BTS ("Not a surprisingly, SRT workers keep ranting against MRTA and BTS without making any improvement to their stations to serve both Subway and Skytrain.", 25/08/04, Wisarut report on 2bkk website).

But I am confused about your suggestion that the the BMA proposed BRT Onnut-Suvannabhaum route would not compete with Airport Link as it is essentially the same corridor (not that I can imagine too many airport travellers wanting to spend an hour stuck in soi77/On Nut rd). If BMA wants a connection btn BTS at On Nut and Airport I would have thought that Bang Na and Lat Krabang would be better?

[Wisarut]

Khun Yappofloyd Said:

But I am confused about your suggestion that the the BMA proposed BRT Onnut-Suvannabhaum route would not compete with Airport Link as it is essentially the same corridor (not that I can imagine too many airport travellers wanting to spend an hour stuck in soi77/On Nut rd). If BMA wants a connection btn BTS at On Nut and Airport I would have thought that Bang Na and Lat Krabang would be better?

Well, the route from Onnut to NBIA would PLEASE thsoe who live along Onnut Road and Phtthanakarn which are NOT covered by Suvannabhum Airport Link .... However, I would suggest antgoerh BRT line form Monburi to Lad Krabang via Romkalo and KMITL they they are also NOT covered by Suvannabhum Airprot Link.

[Yappofloyd]

All, buy the BKK post today as it has a colour rap-around by MRTA & BMCL showing all the planned new metro and SRT lines (incl. airport link) with lots of smiling happy faces.
The funny thing though is that it shows none of the BTS exts only restricting the BTS lines to the current network! I hope this is not an indication of future competition and lack of co-operation between the different network operators.....

[ncr]

All, buy the BKK post today as it has a colour rap-around by MRTA & BMCL showing all the planned new metro and SRT lines (incl. airport link) with lots of smiling happy faces.Can someone scan that?
The funny thing though is that it shows none of the BTS exts only restricting the BTS lines to the current network!Does that really surprise you?
I hope this is not an indication of future competition and lack of co-operation between the different network operators.....Bingo! :(

[Maverick]

Translated From the newspaper: Prachachart Turakij

BMA governor set April 27 to open tender price envelops for BTS extension projects (Silom line and Sukhumvit line) The governor said Bangkok cannot wait for any longer so they have to do something to continue the project. A source said there are 4 groups submit bidding documents for the project which are Sino-Thai, Italian-Thai, Ch-Karnchang, Naowarat Pattanakan, Civil Co. and Nam Prasert Ltd.

Do you think this is a good sign ? :)

[Wisarut]

Yeah ... a good political movement inded .. if Governro Abhilux has sucessfully implemneted Samrong and Taksin extension, the prospect
of re-election is very bright indeed :D This wold also secure the
voting for BMA City Council and even the MP election in 2009 ....

ANY obstruction on Skytrain extensions by TRT (e.g. Nationalization
plan) would ONLY hurn TRT's Prospect on BKK areas during the
general election of 2009 though ... unless TRT is movign fast enough
to implement MRTA Blue Ring, Blue line extension, the Purple line and
Orange line .... as well as Suvannabhum Airport Link,
Lad Phrao - Sri Nakharin - Samrong Yellow LRT and
Highway 304 Pink Monorail

[ncr]

ANY obstruction on Skytrain extensions by TRT (e.g. Nationalization plan) would ONLY hurn TRT's Prospect on BKK areas during the
general election of 2009 though ... 1. I hope any obstruction would backfire on the government.
2. I hope TRT realizes this.
3. I hope they'll act accordingly and stop the childish behaviour.

See, I still have some hope left! :rolleyes:

[Wisarut]

Now, the Results are coming out ....

So far, ONLY ITD, STECON-AS and Nawarat Phatthana-Ch. Karnchang
(NC J/C) are qualified for bidding.

The results are:

1) Taksin Extension:

STECON-AS Consortium: 1,033,877,909 Baht -> Winner
ITD: 1,036,579,613 Baht
Nawarat Phatthana-Ch. Karnchang: 1,060,620,800 บาท

2) Samrong Extension Phase 1 (Onnut - Lasalle)
ITD: 4,060,130,289.49 Baht -> Winner
Naowarat Phatthana-Ch. Karnchang: 4,179,264,050 Baht

3) Samrong Exntesion Phase 2 (Lasalle - Samrong) + Samrong Depot
ITD: 4,414,681,852.86 Baht -> Winner
Naowarat Phatthana-Ch. Karnchang: 4,550,500,995.96 Baht

After openign the bidding result, hte Committed will inspect the document for 2 weeks before making the official results.

BMA is preparign the budget form the leftover budget of Year 2005 and Budget of year 2006 ...

If Taksin extension is DONE, BTS woudl get the extra daily passenger of 10,000 passengers a day ... but the feeder bus with modified routes could add even more number of pasengers ...

[TGunner]

I hope BTS will be able to find the necessary money to finance the extensions. So far, somehow, we haven't heard much about the funding part....

[The Enforcer!]

This is all good news ... at least if it is getting press, Suriya is going to have to cat one way or the other.

Only 'no news' is 'bad news'!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Well, If Chairman Maew and Ai Suriya are tryign to woo the voters form Northern Suburbs by Northern Section of Red Line Commuter (Makkasan - Bangsue - rangsit) with a provision for the extension from Rangsit to Ban phachi and the construction of Makkasan Center while REFUSING to grant BMA 9 Billion Baht for Samrogn Extension and TaksinExntesion and antoehr
2 billion Baht for Southern Bangkok Transportationcenter, TRT would lost most of Thonburi, Samut Sakhonand Samut Songkram as wellas Samut Prakarn, and Southeastern BKK.

[The Enforcer!]

Well, If Chairman Maew and Ai Suriya are tryign to woo the voters form Northern Suburbs by Northern Section of Red Line Commuter (Makkasan - Bangsue - rangsit) with a provision for the extension from Rangsit to Ban phachi and the construction of Makkasan Center while REFUSING to grant BMA 9 Billion Baht for Samrogn Extension and TaksinExntesion and antoehr
2 billion Baht for Southern Bangkok Transportationcenter, TRT would lost most of Thonburi, Samut Sakhonand Samut Songkram as wellas Samut Prakarn, and Southeastern BKK.
If only people would actually vote on 'failure to deliver' rather than 'promises to deliver'!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

And does anybody know why the farang chief operating officer of BTS has deserted ship?
Khun Zimmermann, when did this happen? One can only assume that the unique nature of Thai transport politics had some influence?

[The Enforcer!]

See that OTP and BMA are at war about the Samrong extension, which could easily lead to its cancellation!

The Enforcer!

[R. Zimmermann]

COO - Skytrain
Khun Yappofloyd, it must be about a couple of months ago when I first heard
rumours. Myself also just speculate that he must have been frustrated. He is now in Taiwan.

[Nekochan]

OTP always acts as service boy. You khow at once when they adjusted mass transit master plan twice before the election. There were no feasibility studied whatsoever. No future forecast, no fare policy, no ..... nothing.

How could you have mass transit plan (spagetti coloured lines), but you do not khow the fare and ridership?

[The Enforcer!]

OTP = Service Engineer
Are they the same as 'Environmental Engineers'?

The Enforcer!

[Fatwol]

What do the OTP actually do? And the MRTA? I've never understood who does what. It seems neither do they :p

[The Enforcer!]

What do the OTP actually do? And the MRTA? I've never understood who does what. It seems neither do they :p
I could be wrong but ...

OTP stands for Opposition to Transport Planning

and

MRTA stands for Maximise Road-use by causing Transit Accidents

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

That must be it! ( :eek: )

[TGunner]

I could be wrong but ...

OTP stands for Opposition to Transport Planning

and

MRTA stands for Maximise Road-use by causing Transit Accidents

The Enforcer!


:eek: Sad but true.

[GWR]

OVER the TOP PREVARICATION

OTOP is becoming a Thai Buzzword in its own right. The latest variant seems to be ONE TAMBON, ONE PARK.

[The Enforcer!]

OVER the TOP PREVARICATION

OTOP is becoming a Thai Buzzword in its own right. The latest variant seems to be ONE TAMBON, ONE PARK.
or ... One Taksin, One President?

[Or was it Majority party Leader?]

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

I saw in today's 2Bangkok that the Phetkasem extension is being blocked as it will favour The Mall Group.

Is TRT really that pathethic?

Do we know the political aleegances of other groups like Minor, Central, CP, Tang Hua Seng etc

Maybe we are redraw the Mass Transit Map to avoid certain shops?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Yes, we DO know that TRT hasstrong connection with CP whcihown Tesco Lotus .... and Tang HuaSeng is very closed to Premioer Thaksin's palace.
Oh, Cental patthana Group should be counted as well even though Central patthana is actually connected with the Royal Palace.

Yep, Really that partethic INDEED ... so TRT decided to PUNISH the Mall Group which happen to be the alliance of Democrat by deprving the BTS extension and Subway connection as well. :D ;) :rolleyes:

[Nekochan]

You may notice that OTP itself does not own any projects whether they are mega or not. They are to take care of transport policies + implementations that makes them very powerful.

OTP can come up with an eleveated expressway project in the gulf of Siam even it is DOH who will construct it!!

This makes OTP a tool to accomplish any political goals by anyone in power not only TRT!! But before that it was not that nasty and so candid as today.

Thais have one deputy PM as service lawyer. Why not can we have more? Service engineers?

I am afraid that BTS extention might be a forever daydream, except as some guys predicted, Taksin2 may not have lasted longer after 2006.

OK! let's say after Germany 06 World Cup!! Thais will be busy watching football, but after that .......

[ncr]

It's more than pathetic. It's completely retarded! :mad: :mad: :mad:

What a shame.

[The Enforcer!]

It's more than pathetic. It's completely retarded! :mad: :mad: :mad:

What a shame.
Waht a great name .... Thaksin the Retarded!

The Enforcer!

[TGunner]

Man, this is sad and tragic.... For now, I guess we can only hope that TRT will deliver us all their promises with the least amount of corruption... :(

[The Enforcer!]

Man, this is sad and tragic.... For now, I guess we can only hope that TRT will deliver us all their promises with the least amount of corruption... :(
I'm sorry ... which planet are you from?

The Enforcer!

[TGunner]

I'm sorry ... which planet are you from?

The Enforcer!

We all can have a dream. :cry:

[The Enforcer!]

We all can have a dream. :cry:
True.

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

OTP - Obfuscation of Transport Proposals

If TRT is really wishing to punish The Mall group due to political affliations with the Dems then they can just ensure that only TRT voters use BTS stations near The Mall via a new TRT Smart Card!!!

Sooner or later one would hope that community groups and communities near the Taksin/Phetkasem ext start to agitate enough to cause some concern in the TRT party machine. Surely there is a time limit to these games in delaying the BTS exts before a backlash develops.

[Yappofloyd]

I was having a look at the urbanrail website today and saw the new map (http://www.urbanrail.net/as/wuha/wuhan.htm) that Robert has done for Wahun City in central China on the Yangtze. A new metro system with the first line as an elevated line.

The date of completion by 2010 of new lines made me starkly realise just how efficient the Chinese are in building their metros (look at the rapid expansion of Beijing and Shanghai metros) and that they will probably finish these lines before a new BTS ext is completed in BKK!

[The Enforcer!]

With the current 'news' that the Pink LRT and Yellow LRT are being favoured over the BTS, maybe OTP stands for Office of Taksin's Puppets?

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

PLEA TO MODERATOR

Can you please place this Extension Thread into Skytrain - at present one has to make three seperate 'clicks' after Skytrain to get here!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Land Exappropriation for Pinklao extension of Skytain
Dailynews - July 8, 2005
Matichon - July 8, 2005

The serminar on Pinklao extension of Skytrain in Krasatsuek 2 Room, The Twin Tower Hotel at 10:30 AM on July 7, 2005 with 400 attendants have shown the result as follows:

1) 7.7 km Subway line with 5 stations since it must pass through Rattanakosin Island

2) 20-meter deep tunnel with a price tag of 24.893 billion Baht - BMA is investing 19.856 billion Baht
for the consturction while BTSC would invest 5.037 billion Baht for the new sets of rollign stocks
and signals. ---> 3-4 times expensive than the elevated version. The 20-meter depth tunnel is
to avoid hitting the support pillars of the building whichis 4-meter deep.

3) This line requires the land exapproipriation of 100 houses around Hua Chiaw Hospital
[near Bo bae Textile Market] and at Fai Chai Intersection] so as to construct the
station gates and install the ventilators.

4) The other 150 families living along this route would be under temporary interruption

5) After openign this route, it will generate the additional 140000 passengers a day from
the existing 400000 passengers a day

6) Most of the attendants APPROVE this project since it is underground but they are REALLY
worried about the land exappropriation at Wat Saket [Golden mountain], Siriraj Hospital
[near new Thonburi station], Issaraphab Road, Hua Chiaw Hospital, Lan Luang Road, and
Fai Chai Intersection ... so they are asking for the EXACT locations of stations. The consultants
said htey will doing theri best to ensure the minimized land exappropriation with optimal route.

The detailed studies on Skytrian extensions will be done by the end of August 2005 and
they will deliver the result to Mahadthai [Ministry of Interior] in Septmber 2005 to
ask for 50% supports from Central Government so as to start the project (Phaholyothin extension and Phetkasem extension) by the end of 2006 and finish the project by the end of 2011.

The total budget for 4 extensions [Mochit - Saphan mai [11.9 km],
Taksin Intersection - Phetkasem [4.5 km], Samrong - Samut Prakarn [10 km], and
National Stadium - Phran Nok [7.7km]] would be 84.255 billion Baht

[Wisarut]

MOTC & OTP Suspending BTS Extension
Dailynews - July 20, 2005

After the failture to Nationalize BTS, OTP has disqualify BTS from become a parners of Holding Company and SUSPENDs any further extensions of BTS. OTP has come up with the following substitutions:
Canceled:
1) Mochit - Saphan mai
2) National Stadium - Phrannok
3) Taksin Intersection - Phetkasem
4) Saphan Taksin - Taksin Intersection
5) Onnut - Samrong - Samut Prakarn

Substitute:
1) Bangsue - Rangsit [red lien commuter]
2) Hua Lamphong - Lak Song [Blue line subway]
3) Hua Lamphong - Lak Song [Blue line subway]
4) Purple Line [undergroudn section]
5) New Rail line from Makkasanm to Paknam via old Paknam railway

Furthermore, OTP has asked BMA to RETURN the budget for BTS Extension back
since BMA cannot use that budget unless BTS has been nationalized.

NOTE: This Kind of Arm-Twisting Tacting and Bullyings ONLY alienates voters for TRT.

[Yappofloyd]

So finally the full agenda of OTP and the govt is announced. A couple of queries;

1) How stupid is it to cancel the Taksin to Phetkasem ext when most of the viaduct is already built,
2) Is the Paknam corridor the one that goes near Klong Toey ports area (used by fuel trains from the storage tanks) and then south along the river. It doesn't seem to be well located for residential acess as Thanon Suk.
3) How is the govt., already on the slide, going to explain cancelling BTS exts which they very publically pushed and advertised before the election?

[Nekochan]

MAD DOG ON THE LOSE!!

With no solutions for southern unrest, bird flu, CTX scandal, and blah blah blah, TRT starts to shoot themself (again) in the foot.

Mr. 20% stucks with MOT as long as the class of 377 voted for him.

I cannot believe they are so ... callous as if they really owned this nation.

Or they really do?

OTP is .... (sigh) behaving more like servant and it is much worst than when Dr. Yongyut was in charge. It has never been good, either.

[The Enforcer!]

Quelle Surprise!

Suriya is certainly nailing Taksin's colours to the mast!

Perhaps a little political play so ahead of the Reschuffle?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

For Khun Yappofloyd:

Yep, Totally STUPID indeed ... Now, those who live along
Krung Thonburi Road and Ratchapruk road are goign to REVOLT against TRT and OTP. Next are thsoe wholive alogn Phaholyothin Road (Me too!) and Sukhumvit Road ....

Yep, that Klong Toei Port and the old paknam railway Road (teh truck route) ...

TRT would get Karmic Retribution from Bangkokians sooner or later.

For KhunNekochan:

Indeed, They are so callous that they are goign to EXTRACT
40% of 1.7 Trillion Baht Budget for Megaproject in front of
His & Her Majesty. :mad: :(

[Wisarut]

ShinCorp has make a steal by negotiating with the creditors
to buy the BTS debts before BTS has restructured the debts while
OTP has used the dirty tricks to Bar BTS form further extensions so
as to force BTSto sele the stocksat cheap prices.

They are so callous that they REFUSE to LISTEN to both company
and the demands from the people. Now, many Thai netters
are goign to apply black magics and curse the Government, MOTC and
OTP to go to HELL and be DAMNED for the rest of theri lives.

[The Enforcer!]

Now, many Thai netters
are goign to apply black magics and curse the Government, MOTC and
OTP to go to HELL and be DAMNED for the rest of theri lives.
Ahead of sacrificing chickens, and dancing naked ... when are the next BMA Council or BMA District elections due?

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

They are so callous that they REFUSE to LISTEN to both company
and the demands from the people. Now, many Thai netters
are goign to apply black magics and curse the Government, MOTC and
OTP to go to HELL and be DAMNED for the rest of theri lives.

It seems to me that voodoo is about the only recourse to justice most ordinary folk feel they have. (And not just here.) That said, most politicians are only superstitious when they see personal profit from it. The rest of the time, they almost certainly find this perfidious superstition amongst the powerless highly amusing and guaranteed to strengthen their own hand.

Having watched the posturing of Thai male politicians in action for what seems like centuries, I would suggest that their vulnerability will only become apparent when folk learn to ignore them and view them as largely irrelevant;to all practical intents and purposes, that IS exactly what they are anyway. Just like the katoey in every classroom, they need constant attention at every whipstitch to bolster their sad unsatisfied egos; and a curse on 'them' is as good as a ringing endorsement. Just further evidence that they are in charge.

Cursing someone is just another act of obsequiousness. Something far more unsettling is required to put 'them' off their stroke. The male ego is actually extremely vulnerable.
;)

[Wisarut]

:D Well, I know that one [person have suffered maltreatment by Chaingmai Governor, so SHE went to uphold Silp 8 (8 restrains inclyudign no sexual intercourse, eat NOTHING but water after Midday, sleep on the hard beds) ... and put a curase on that Chaing Mai governor, ...

The results, that Chiangmai governor and his wife died by Plane Crash
at Suphan Buri. The curse from thsoe who uphold virtue ALWAYS works ... :D :) :rolleyes:

Beware if you have maltreated those who STRICTLY uphold virtue, your live woyuld be at the end prematurely ...

[ncr]

This whole story is getting more and more annoying....... :mad:
.......and surrealistic! :eek: :D

[GWR]

Beware if you have maltreated those who STRICTLY uphold virtue, your live would be at the end prematurely ...

But alas not in most of the high-profile cases I remember. If you've got a couple of hours to read it, I'll produce a list of folk who are still happily at loose and aloof. :D

[Yappofloyd]

This whole story is getting more and more annoying....... :mad:
.......and surrealistic! :eek: :D
Yes the whole process is almost verging on a Greek tragedy ..... :mad:
Surreal wise it is a bit strange to be reading about black magic and scarificing chikens on the Sky train extension forum but I guess it is all part of the weird, eclectic, karmic world of thai political culture.

[chateaulik]

Should we do anything about this matter? Especially those who live along 4 extended routes. Ai suriya and Thaksin should be cursed by all of those people.

[Fatwol]

Why not organise a giant public cursing? That would get media attention! :)

[The Enforcer!]

Should we do anything about this matter? Especially those who live along 4 extended routes. Ai suriya and Thaksin should be cursed by all of those people.
May be highlight the following Constituencies which were promised the Skytrain ...

12. (Chalermchai Jeenawijarana)
15. (Paweena Hongsakul)
16. (Anusorn Panthong)
23. (Sansanee Nakphong)
24. (Watthana Sengphairoh)
27. (Anek Hutangkhabadee)
28. (Silampha Lertnuwat)
32. (Mana Khongwutthipanya)

Please note they are all TRT held!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Already, many of thsoe who live along Skytrain extension routes have sharpened both bamboo sticks and machetes, or even had sharp shooting
drills (esp with AK47,M16, machine guns, grenad launcher, motars or so),
if NOT playing aroudn with black magic to curse TRT who telling a LIE
to the public, esp in Front of His & Her Majesty. :mad:

[GWR]

I think we should refer to these folks as 'Wisarutites'.

[ncr]

WUMTA - Wisarut's Underground Mass Transit Army

Viva los Wisarutistas! :p

[Fatwol]

Viva! Viva! :D

[GWR]

All Hail W! All Hail W!

[The Enforcer!]

Hail to The Chief!

.. or is it hail to the chef, I can never remember!

The Enforcer!

[Nekochan]

Attach a chainsaw to your hand and invite Stallone and Seagal.

You will have "the Army of Darkness"!!

Will you take prisoners? (what's prisoner?)

[Wisarut]

Now, Governor Abhirak told the press that:

"Ifthe CentralGovernment REFUSES to help BMA to contruct BTSExtension, BMAwill have to conbvewr the consturcted track into BRT Line!" :mad:

[Fatwol]

Now that really WOULD be silly...better to wait. The govt will lose this battle in the end...or the next election.

Btw, does anyone know if there are any plans to plant big new trees on Sathorn? I saw something like this referred to on 2bangkok but then no further details... :)

[jpatokal]

Now that really WOULD be silly...better to wait.
Actually, I think it's a brilliant idea. The viaduct is already there, might as well use it for something to relieve the horrible congestion on/around Saphan Taksin, and as far as I understand it buses are under BMA's jurisdiction and can't be torpedoed by OTP/TRT/... only problem is getting buses and passengers up there at the other end!

[Wisarut]

The BMTA Bushas not been transferred to BMA yet ... so MOTC and OTP cantorpido at will...

[Yappofloyd]

WUMTA - Wisarut's Underground Mass Transit Army

Viva los Wisarutistas! :p
I waiting to read the news reports of WUMT Army engaging in chicken sacrifices and spells put on those corrupt politicians! In my country, in our student days we used to throw and egg or two, or blockade the vehicles of govt ministers when such things were done. A bit of ruff stuff from the police was usually the result but nothing too serious.

Unfortunately, in Thailand , and especially now, such things would probably either get you blacklisted, shot or carted off to the south to reside on a vacant post!

[The Enforcer!]

I waiting to read the news reports of WUMT Army engaging in chicken sacrifices
I took part in a Chicken sacrifice yesterday ... unfortunately I had ordered it cooked but the chef thought otherwise!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Now,Duputy BMA Governor (Ajanr Samart) told the press that this BRT on Taksin extension is for feeder line along Kalaprapruek road
... even though it is necessary to build BRT track on the top of
Taksin extension. :D ;)

[The Enforcer!]

Now,Duputy BMA Governor (Ajanr Samart) told the press that this BRT on Taksin extension is for feeder line along Kalaprapruek road
... even though it is necessary to build BRT track on the top of
Taksin extension. :D ;)
When will they learn that BRT is a waste of money!!

The only way to reduce traffic congestion is to go from Skytrain and Subway extensions.

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Now, Premier Thaksin has shown his clear policy to STRANGULATE by tightening
the noose on the BTSC's Neck to force them to seel the stocksat cheap price
as the exchange for connectign with other systems. The same strangulating tactick
also has been applied to BMCL- despite of the fact thaty MRTA has to pay higher
interest rates on loan than regular rate due to the emergencyloan for purchasing
25% of BMCL.


Government Seriously Pressuring on BTSC to JointHolding Compamny by Forces.
Manager Daily - August 2, 2005

The governemtn SERIOUSLY wants to pressure BTSC to joint in the new holdign company
while comign upwith the 2 NEW lines with a price tag of 40 billion Baht as substitutes for
the cancelled BTSC Skytrain extensions if BSC REFUSES to joint with the new company.

The substitute lines if BTSC refuses to give up some stocks to joint with
the new holding company are:

1) Queen Sirikit Center - Rama 4 - Old Paknam Road - Poochao Saming Phrai - Phra Padaeng
18 km elevated track, 10 billion Baht -> the substitute for Onnut - Samrong

2) Phayathai - Phetburi - Yomraj - Lan Luang - Ratchadamnoen Klang - Sanam Luang -
Thonburi Station (Bangkok Noy) -, 10 km subway [City Train] + 5 km elevated track from Thonburi to Phrannok, 30 billion Baht -> the substitute for Pinklao extension of Skytrain

The otehr substitutesfor BTS extensions are the Red Line COmmuter Networks
as well as the rerouting the Blue lien subweay to Yaowaraj, and of coruse -> the Yellow LRT of Ai Suriya.

If BTS Agrees to surrender some stocks to joint with the new holding company, the number of passenger will go up by 300000 passengers a day/route.

Note: The measure would ALIENATE the voter alogn Sukhumvit road even though those who live alogn Phetburi road and Rattanakosin island would please with such a measure.

[ncr]

The substitute lines if BTSC refuses to give up some stocks to joint with the new holding company are:

1) Queen Sirikit Center - Rama 4 - Old Paknam Road - Poochao Saming Phrai - Phra Padaeng
18 km elevated track, 10 billion Baht -> the substitute for Onnut - Samrong

2) Phayathai - Phetburi - Yomraj - Lan Luang - Ratchadamnoen Klang - Sanam Luang -
Thonburi Station (Bangkok Noy) -, 10 km subway [City Train] + 5 km elevated track from Thonburi to Phrannok, 30 billion Baht -> the substitute for Pinklao extension of SkytrainOne word: LUNACY! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Wisarut]

Totally and Purely LUNATIC indeed!

[The Enforcer!]

One word: LUNACY! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Just for fun I lloked it up .... Lunacy ... intermittent periods of insanity, such as were believed to be triggered by the moon's cycle originally called "month-sickness." !

Sounds like anyone we know?

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

BRT is "small electric trains"!!!??

MASS TRANSIT: U-turn on buyback plan Sucheera Pinijparakarn The Nation on August 29, 2005

Govt rethinks plan to acquire indebted Skytrain, subway firms; still favours single-operator system with fare subsidies. The government is likely to scrap a plan to buy back two mass transit concessions from Bangkok Mass Transit System Plc (BTS) and Bangkok Metro Plc (BMCL) as it weighs up the huge financial burden which has forced it to abort two other planned routes.

A source at Government House said any decision would be based on a study by the Mass Transit Committee which includes Pichit Akrathit, managing director of MFC Asset Management Co Ltd. “The committee suggested the planned purchase be scrapped as it would entail the huge debts that BTS and BMCL have shouldered. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra apparently favours the idea,” the source said. It is estimated the government would have to spend about Bt70 billion to take over BTS, the Skytrain operator, and Bt22 billion for BMC, which operates the subway.

If the purchase is scrapped, the source said, the single operator concept could still go ahead with the government asking both operators to lower their fares, which would be subsidised. The method of subsidy should be discussed today, the source added. Originally, the government floated the idea of purchasing the two systems in order to create an integrated mass transit system operated through a single system by a single organisation. Scrapping the plan will surprise many observers given the government’s apparent indifference to criticism over the huge sums set aside for mega-projects at a time of lower economic growth.

Traffic and transport agencies will meet today to discuss various revisions and submit a new mass transit network plan to the Cabinet tomorrow. Another source in a traffic agency said potential investors had been worried about the single operator concept because profits would be limited. “The investment does not look attractive at all under this concept, which would allow the single operator to control the fares,” he said. “Exacerbated by economic problems, few investors have shown an interest in this project. The decision [to cancel the purchase and the two new rail routes] should turn around the sentiment,” he said.

Deputy Bangkok Governor Samart Ratchapolsitte said he did not understand why the two lines had to be scrapped despite an extensive study. “Particularly the Purple Line. It will run past densely-populated areas,” he said. Samart urged the Cabinet to quickly revise a resolution that bars Bangkok from jointly investing with private companies in the extended part of the BTS route.

Democrat MP Korn Chatikavanij said the government was on the right track in dropping the plan to buy back the concessions. “And now, it should proceed with the resolution to allow Bangkok to proceed with the BTS extension,” he said. The suggestion to drop the plan was made at a meeting on Thursday chaired by Thaksin. Present at the meeting were Transport Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal, Permanent Finance Secretary Suparut Kawatkul, Pornchai Nutsuwan, chairman of the rail transport fund-raising committee, and Pichit.

On Friday, Pongsak announced the government would scrap the two planned mass transit routes – Purple and Orange – as the expected return on investment would be too low. That would save about Bt200 billion and allow the government to spend Bt343 billion on the remaining five routes.

The Purple Line – which would have run between Bang Sue and Bang Yai, and Bang Sue and Rat Burana – was not considered feasible because the return was estimated at less than 6 per cent as most residents along the route travel only in the morning and evening. The Orange Line was to run from Bang Kapi to Sam Sen and Sam Sen to Bang Bamru. Pongsak said the decision could be revised if necessary. A new network plan costing a lot less would still expand the length from 274 kilometres to 283 kilometres, he said.

“We have to admit that previously the government focused more on the overall network, not the returns of each route. Aside from the two lines which are scrapped, others could be revised if the returns are not worth the investment,” he said. Pornchai said yesterday the government would support people along the scrapped routes by adopting the Bus Rapid Transit concept, which relies on smaller electric trains.

The government had spent Bt300 million on designing the Purple Line. Praphat Chongsanguan, governor of the Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand which is in charge of mass transit development, said it was not a waste of money as once traffic along the routes gets heavier, the design could be brushed up in the future. Meanwhile, Kamroblak Suraswadi, director of the Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning Office, is hopeful the two routes will not eventually be dropped and that the government would revise the decision in the future when money is not such a major concern.

[The Enforcer!]

I am pleased they plan to stop the 'purchase of everything' concept but now surely they should use the money saved to expand the network even more?

No one seems to mention the SRT Red Line/Pink Line proposals - would these also come under the one operator scheme?

The Enforcer!

[R. Zimmermann]

I have never understood how the Government can "buy back" the skytrain,
since they never sold it in the first place. It is an entirely private investment
on a concession granted by the City of Bangkok. Or am I wrong somehow?
At best the talk could be about a "buy out". But I am not too worried that
such thing will happen, considering that somehow they seem to be coming to
their senses. Khun (Dr.)Pichit Akrathit seems to be a wise and a brave man:
He said that nationalizing BTSC does not need to be a precondition for an
integrated fare tariff and fare system. Was he allowed to seriously take a look at other transport organizations across Thailand's border? Has this something to do with mighty Suriya having been kicked upstairs? Or what else is going on? Does the PM listen?

[GWR]

Khun Samak (ex-Bkk Guv & hardly my favorite human) has been on a political talkshow on Channel 9 in the last minutes highlighting the case for an upgraded Mae Khlong Line with BTS connections. It seems he also finds the government's attitude to this project & BTS somewhat perverse.

[The Enforcer!]

It seems he also finds the government's attitude to this project & BTS somewhat perverse.
Amazed he knows what perverse means!

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

Incidently, the glossy brochure 'Aye Jamook Chompoo' was brandishing showed a 'new' Mae Khlong Station with no apparent attempt to also develop the Mahachai Line.

[Wisarut]

BTS has installed the new version of TVMs
Manager daily - October 18, 2005

BTSC has install the new versionof TVMs (the Integrated Tecketing Machine) that accept both coins and Banknotes for singel trips - up to 10 singel trips.

Coins: 5 Baht, 10 Baht
Banknotes: 20 Baht, 50 Baht, 100 Baht

These TVMs would give achange as 5 Baht and 10Baht coins andwill be operate from
6 Am until Midnight.

These TVMs have been installed in the followign stations since Octoebr 15,2005

1) Chitlom
2) Asok
3) Phromphongse
4) Victory Monument
5) Saladaeng

// ---------------------------------------------------------------

More Detail on BMA Plan for Taksin extension
Manager - Oct 18, 2005

1) BMA City Council hasapprove the fund of 2.333 billioin Baht for Taksin extension, 1.033 billion Baht for civil work and 1.300 billion Baht for the signal and system

2) BMA Budget Bureau has approved such funding from the 2006 Budget

3) BMA would have to push this project, to be ready for service inOctober 2006.
4) Samrogn extension would have to be funded by Bond) to be under discussion by the end of october 2006.

Note: Most netters have Cheered Governor Abhirak for this BOLT Decision to pushTaksin extension at all cost as the folloing link has sugggested
http://www.manager.co.th/QOL/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000143759

Taksin extension would REDEEM Govern Abhirak from the "Black House Scandal" and
secure the Democrat Seats in BKK and Thonburi.

[Tettyan]

There you have it! Straight from the horses mouth!

Where are all the Thaksin apologists on this board now??? Come out, come out wherever you are. Don't be afraid. We don't bite :)


http://202.60.196.117/breaking/read.php?lang=en&newsid=89703

Thaksin confirms he'll stop BMA Skytrain plan
Published on Oct 21 , 2005

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra repeated Friday that the government would put a brake on a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) move to fund the extension of Skytrain services from Taksin Bridge to Thon Buri.

"Bangkok is not an independent state," he said.

He was speaking after earlier opposing Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin's plan to ask the city administration to raise funds for the 2.2-kilometre extension route. Apirak is expected to seek Bt2.2 billion for the extension from the Bangkok Council on Wednesday.

"Any mass transportation plan must have approval from the country's Transport Committee," Thaksin said yesterday. He said any rushed decision could put an unnecessary burden on people who might be forced to pay higher fares.

THE NATION

[jpatokal]

"Any mass transportation plan must have approval from the country's Transport Committee," Thaksin said yesterday. He said any rushed decision could put an unnecessary burden on people who might be forced to pay higher fares.
:eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: :( :( :mad: :mad:

[ncr]

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra repeated Friday that the government would put a brake on a Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) move to fund the extension of Skytrain services from Taksin Bridge to Thon Buri.

"Any mass transportation plan must have approval from the country's Transport Committee," Thaksin said yesterday. He said any rushed decision could put an unnecessary burden on people who might be forced to pay higher fares.Bah, simply disgusting. What blatant hypocrisy, and what a cheap pretence - certainly the people affected wouldn't mind paying higher fares (*should* they really eventuate) in order to finally get their rail link after wasting time in traffic jams for decades? But that's not the main point anyway.

One cannot stop shaking one's head at the boldness with which the PM keeps telling lies to the public. Who will stop this impertinence?

Excerpts from the other articles linked on the main page:

SKYTRAIN EXTENSION: Thaksin objects to BMA investment
Published on October 21, 2005 (The Nation)

He indicated that Apirak was determined to solve the problems but did not understand enough of the issue to make it work. "[An investment like that] is a short-term action and it’s not worth it. We’ll discuss it, everything has a way out," Thaksin said.

[Mr. Know-It-All]

Agriculture Minister Sudarat Keyuraphan said Thai Rak Thai would call for a meeting of its councillors to find out what prompted their absence from Wednesday’s meeting. She urged the public not to see this incident as a political issue and said the government was supportive of the BMA.

[ha ha ha]

She said the government was working on a master plan of overall Skytrain routes to divide work among agencies for the benefit of the city’s residents.

[yet another pretext]

Train row escalates - PM tells city it is not an 'autonomous state' (Bangkok Post)

The BMA, therefore, could not simply decide to pay for the civil work, stations, tracks and operating systems for the BTS extension, he [Thaksin] said. But Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin said city hall has waited long enough. It would go ahead and complete the extension with or without government approval.

[That means war then....] :eek:

"We must say that we should talk in the [government's] transport committee to agree on what to do. Perhaps the BMA may not have to spend over two billion baht for the BTS," Mr Thaksin said. He explained that the 2.2km extension was very short and, without a good plan or negotiations, an unreasonable fare might be charged for the additional short section and consequently the burden would be passed on to the public. "Do not cause trouble to people. If [the fare] increases by two or three baht, that will be acceptable. Understand? Let's talk," Mr Thaksin said. He confirmed that he understood the BMA's intention was to serve the public but any actions would have to be the result of thorough consideration. "How will they be connected if the BMA invests? How will fares be collected? Which burdens will go to the public? These must be figured out. Be calm and let's talk. The talks have not happened but announcements have been made swiftly. This is not an autonomous state. It [the city] needs to talk," Mr Thaksin stressed.

[You don't really expect anyone to believe that you act strictly with the "benefit of the people" in mind, do you, Mr. Thaksin? (If so, better go and have your mental health checked.)]

Deputy governor Samart Ratchapolsitte insisted the BMA had waited for the government's approval for two years and, at the moment, nothing could stop it from finishing the job. "Today Bangkok traffic is in crisis. The local administration must take action. Only if the Bangkok council passes the expense on Oct 26, everything will proceed right away. There is no use waiting any longer," Mr Samart said. He said the 2.2km extension section does not contradict the government's overall mass transit plan for Bangkok and the state contributing to public transport services is normal around the world. Singapore, Seoul, Hong Kong, Taipei and Melbourne paid all the costs for their electric trains to serve the public and solve traffic problems but Thailand was an exception in requiring private sector investment, Mr Samart said. In response to Mr Thaksin's remarks on the feasibility of the BMA's investment in the 2.2km section, Mr Samart said financial feasibility was out of the question for mass transit projects because they would result in overall economic gains in terms of road traffic solutions. On the government's concern for lower fares, Mr Samart said the government itself had failed in its low fare negotiations with Bangkok Metro Co Ltd, the subway operator, and then had to let the operator raise fares after initial promotional rates.



Finally, on a related note: I think everyone noticed how the [I]Bangkok Post became more and more critical (almost Nation-like....) in its articles and editorials after the takeover (something nobody would have expected)? It seems this attempt at muzzling the media has only backfired so far. Their current web poll even asks: "Has PM Thaksin Shinawatra done a good job in solving Thailand’s problems?" (with votes as follows: Yes 8% - No 89% - I don't know 3%; though I don't want to say this is representative in any way; they don't even show how many people participated).

[mrtfreak]

To me, as someone watching from a global stand point, I find it rather sickening that your extensions are delayed, cancelled mid-way and what not, all because of politicking. Its just, well, stomach churning to watch. Come on, the Thaksin (spelling?) extension is like, partially done, why not just continue with it? Does every project have to become an issue for swinging votes? I think it shouldn't and if the authorities did continue with the projects they might even win the votes that way. All the best for the extensions!

[jpatokal]

Am I the only person who sees this squabble as healthy? More power to Apirak, I say. He's got Thaksin in a bit of a pickle here -- hopefully even the Dear Leader will realize that there are limits to his powers (come next election if nothing else) and will finally back off and let the damn extension be built.

[Tettyan]

I agree, jpatokal. I have actually been cheering for this to happen for the longest time. The reason why Thaksin always ends up eating the Democrats for breakfast is that they don't have any balls. They always like to play "Mr. Nice Guy" and now they find that nice guys finish first.

It really didn't take Apirak that much to finally get Thaksin to publicly oppose the extensions ON THE RECORD. That'll be great for TRT's re-election chances! My only wonder is why the governor bothered to wait this long.

My only wish now is for Apirak not to give up - please don't give up now! From this point on, he doesn't have much to lose.

BTW, did you guys know that Thai law permits allows for Bangkok governors to be "recalled" by popular referandum, a.l.a. California (the way Arnold S. got into office)? It would be so much fun to see TRT try and pull that in the middle of all this. :D

[Hitesh]

BTW, did you guys know that Thai law permits allows for Bangkok governors to be "recalled" by popular referandum, a.l.a. California (the way Arnold S. got into office)? It would be so much fun to see TRT try and pull that in the middle of all this. :D

I doubt that would happen. But if it did, I would definately vote for Apirak again. And im pretty sure most of the people here who are eligible to vote would as well.

[Wisarut]

Democrat lambasting TRT for Obstructing BTS Extensions
Manager - October 23, 2005

Democrat have thrown Supports for Popular BTS Extensions by BMA
with 2.3 billion Baht budget.

MP Korn Jatikawanit (cyhildren of Super K of BTS) haveLambasted Maew abotu the
indicators of "worthy investment project" ... by pointing out the MRTA Purple Lien and
MRTA Orange Line as a good example. Furthermore, MPO Korn has pointed out that
if you give 1 Million Baht for each village aroudn Thailand (total 70 billion Baht), you should
NEVER ask abotu 2.3 billion Baht budget for BTS Extension. No More EXECUTE for
obstruct the extensions after the plan to nationalize BTS-BMCL hasbeen terminated.


At the same time MP Ongart Klamphaiboon haveattacked TRT people as
"Narrow-minded men" who come to obstruct BTS extensions as the way to
destroy the popularity of Governor Aphirak while perpetuatign the sufferigns
of thsoe wholive in Thonburi. Governor AphirakhasbeenaMr NiceGuy for too logn but
Premier AThaksin REFUSES to response. Therefore, Governor Aphirak has to do his best
to deal with Taksin Extension without askign for the Central government Budget.

MP Ongart told the press that if TRT Members don't want to terminate theri
own political careers, they should go AGAINST Maew by supporting BTS Extensions.

If TRT Refuses to work on Taksin extension of 6.7 km, They shouyld LET BMA handle
this section by themselves withotu obstructing them. If they keep obstructing
the popular BTS Extension as they have done for more than 5 years, they would face
the dire consequence in the same way as Soldiers in the "Red Zone" in the next
elections in BKK.

[von Hirschhorn]

Of course; private interest, nothing else to expect. However, if the extension will go forward - believe is to see the first train running - they did a good thing. Unfortunate Politics and Public Transportation does not go hand in hand
If there were bright sighted politicians, they, without thinking twice, will invest in rail bound modes of transportation instead of building roads, concrete and asphalt for smoot moving cars in the wake of deadly fumes.:rolleyes:
I am wonder how much the automobile and gasoline lobby pays to get smoot indeed and how many politicians will harvest a few baht and more. :D
A quick look at the European situation e.g. in the U.K. learns that the shifting from government to the private sector more or less is a disaster. Making profit with transportation is a gold diggers dream. Just invest, a good way to spent peoples tax money without doubt.

[Tettyan]

:confused: I don't think private investment in public transport is a bad idea in principle. Japan is one outstanding example of how privately operated public transport can deliver even better results than public ownership. It's also an example of how it's possible to run an integrated system with many operators WITHOUT the need of outright nationalized ownership or heavy-handed regulation by the central government (as Thaksin and Pongsak like to claim).

Of course, we all know that the intentions of the current government are not that charitable. First, they say re-nationalization (of BTS) and public ownership is a must, now they argue that BMA should allow other private operators to bid on the project. What's it gonna be? Of course, we all know that the framework for privatization in Thailand is anything but transparent. This government is all for privatization, but only if buyers are Thaksin and his friends!

[jpatokal]

:confused: I don't think private investment in public transport is a bad idea in principle. Japan is one outstanding example of how privately operated public transport can deliver even better results than public ownership. It's also an example of how it's possible to run an integrated system with many operators WITHOUT the need of outright nationalized ownership or heavy-handed regulation by the central government (as Thaksin and Pongsak like to claim).
Umm... no, it's not. JR may be privatized in theory, but it still acts like a state company in many ways (witness eg. its refusal to integrate its ticketing with anybody else). Also, track construction (esp. Shinkansen) is still financed and minutely regulated by the government. Most train lines in Japan make losses and profits from the ones that don't (commuter services in big cities, Tokyo-Nagoya-Osaka bullet trains) are used to prop them up.

[Fatwol]

...which is the way any civilised system should be.

[Tettyan]

JR is a bit of a special case. But both Tokyo subway systems (Metro and Toei) have integrated ticketing systems, along with all the private non-JR communter lines (Tokyu, Odakyu, Keio, Seibu, Tobu, Kesei, Keikyu, etc.). Moreover, you can buy transfer tickets from JR to all the private commuter lines. I think you're talking about the one exception - that you can't use JR's stored value tickets on the other lines and vice versa.

According to most of my friends, JR's service is vastly improved ever since the old government-owned Japan National Railways (JNR) was broken up (except maybe for those who live in depopulated areas in the countryside, but JNR service in these areas was a gift from the politicians in the first place anyway). Privitization brought increased investment for stations and rolling-stock, and staff are now much more polite (JNR employees were civil servants, and thus couldn't be fired).

Yes, it's true that comprimises had to be made during JNR's privatization. The government continued with the construction of new shinkansen lines, and profitable lines to some extent subsidize lines in areas like Hokkaido and Shikoku. But as I alluded to above, service on many unnecessary lines have been eliminated or curtailed - something that would have been unthinkable under the old JNR.

The failed privatization of British Rail serves as a cautionary tale, but the structure of this privatization was very different from JR (I don't want to go into details here). Overall, I still think that private construction and ownership can deliver superior results, if handled in a proper and fair manner - this, condition, I admit, would be impossible to meet so long as Thaksin rules Thailand.

On a final note - just take a look at the gleaming Skytrain, and compare that to the services on the government-run SRT. :cool:

[jpatokal]

Don't get me wrong -- I'm in favor of privatization and think that Japanese railways on the whole do a pretty darn good job. But they're not entirely private yet, and the reason they're good is, for most part, not because they're privatized. Japan's incredible population density and heavy early investment into railways is still, in my opinion, the main reason.

[ncr]

More articles on the Skytrain extension controversy - October 29, 2005
Wisarut points out more Thai-language articles about the Skytrain extension controversy

Irregularities on the foreign participation on the four lines of mass transit systems baffling diplomats from seven nations (http://www.thaipost.net/index.asp?bk=thaipost&post_date=28/Oct/2548&news_id=115096&cat_id=600) -
Khun Wisarut, what's the contents of this intriguingly titled article? (And exactly what 4 lines they mean?)

[Tettyan]

Thanks for the replies. I've enjoyed our little discussion about Japanese railways.

The reason why I originally brought this subject up was in response to Thaksin's insistence that all mass transit systems in the metropolitan area must to be brought under the control of the central government if an integrated network is to develop. I wanted to cite Tokyo (as well as Osaka and Nagoya, though I'm less familiar with those cities as I've never lived there) as a counterexample. Most visitors to Tokyo seldom venture beyond JR's Yamonote Loop Line, but there are also nearly two dozen (mostly profitable) independent rail operators in the Tokyo metropolitan area that serve commuters. All the systems have compatible tickets and wickets that can accept transfer tickets (with the exception of JR's stored value tickets and vice-versa). The Metro and Toei subway networks also sell discounted tickets for commuters who transfer between the two systems. The private railways even manage to pool their equipment with the subway systems and run through services.

I recall that BTS in the past said it was willing to negotiate with MRT indepently over implementing a joint ticketing system and sychronizing their networks. This goes to show that heavy-handed government intervention is not necessary to implement a regionwide system. By now, Thaksin's insistence on integration seems little more than a red herring. Indeed, if the TRT government just left BMA, BTS, MRT and SRT to their own devices, Bangkok would probably have a decent mass-transit system by now. :cool:

[Wisarut]

The iregularities mentioned is Thaipost is that the Payment for Megaproject by Bartering System .... Longan & Rubber for Subway initiated by Ai Pheng with a consent directly from the Leader .... This has made USA, Japan, South Koreea, Germany REFUSE to joint the biddign for this megaproject ... due to the violation of Free Trade Agreement .... Seriously

This collusion has Left France (the one with the vested interest with Shin Corp on Sattelite Deal), Mainland China (with the FTA vested interst) and Russia to joitn with this scheme :D ;) :rolleyes: :p :cool:

[von Hirschhorn]

I don't think private investment in public transport is a bad idea in principle.

In principle yes but in the way shaped and worked out - at least in Western Europe - no!! I am not familar with Japan only one thing: nobody speaks or write about the debt that left after the reform and as far as I know still there although the now (more or less) private companies should pay back with there profit if there is any? I mean real economy is one thing, happy book keeping another. :p

[Tettyan]

Thanks for the reply. Let me go into a little detail here.

JNR's (Japan National Railways) debt is taken care of in a couple ways. A big chunk came from the sale of shares in 3 of the regional JR companies. A smaller portion was covered by the sale of miscellaneous assets, such as property, etc. (JNR had all sorts of assets, including a fixed-line telephone network running along the tracks). The remainder, around half, is to be borne by the Japanese taxpayer.

Just to give you a little background, the government privatized JNR in 1987 by splitting it up into 7 companies. JR Freight was set up to handle cargo transport, while passenger operations are now the responsibility of 6 independent regional companies. JR East handles operations in the Tokyo region and eastern Japan, JR West in Osaka and western Japan, JR Tokai in Nagoya and central Japan, while services in the outer islands of Hokkaido, Shikoku and Kyushu are each handled by a seperate JR company.

Unlike in the UK, the operators also retain control of rolling-stock, and most importantly, track infrastructure. A sort of Anglo-Saxon bias against vertical integration left the tracks and services in seperate hands when British Rail was privatized. Railtrack, which controlled the tracks, had no incentive to invest in infrastructure, since they were not allowed to run services themselves - they just collected rental fees from operators. Indeed, their m.o. just became - invest as little as possible in tracks while encouraging the train operators to run even more trains to generate more fee income. The UK Dept of Transport originally proposed a sensible plan along the JR model, but the Treasury had its own ideas, and the rest is, well, history. I'm less familiar with the German case, but as far as I know, the government has no intention of selling any shares in DB, so this doesn't really constitute privatization. All that's changed is that DB is expected to operate "for profit" and it has to compete for contracts to service regional lines.

How's JR doing today? To this day, JR East has not raised fares once since privatization, while service is much improved. The government has sold off all its shares in JR East and JR West (both are profitable ,for the most part). Last I heard, the gov't still owned 39% of JR Tokai, but was planning to sell it all off soon. The situation of the operators on the thinly-populated outer islands is a bit more tricky. The government still subsidizes operations there, though at a much reduced level from the JNR days. After the opening of the Kyushu Shinkansen, however, JR Kyushu finally turned a profit, and they are preparing to list on the stock market soon. Since JR Shikoku and JR Hokkaido serve isolated, depopulated areas, they will probably stay government-owned. But just for a little perspective, most other developed countries would probably not provide any passenger rail service to comparably underpopulated areas.

This whole discussion of JR is beside my original point though. Most of commuter rail traffic in Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya isn't even shouldered by JR. In these areas, numerous companies that have ALWAYS been private provide services over there own tracks (you may have already heard of one of them - Tokyu, they also own a department store in Bangkok). These companies have usually been profitable, and their fares can even be lower than JR's. Back in the old JNR days, if passengers were traveling a route also served by a private line, they would usually choose the private line since the service was always better and the fare lower.

I think the Bangkok area has the population density necessary to support privately-operately transit services. I concede that it would probably be necessary for the government to invest in some of the infrastructure to get started, but it is absolutely NOT necessary to nationalize BTS and BMCL. It's pretty clear from the news I read here that the government's policy in this regard is a red herring. ;)

[jpatokal]

Very, very good post by Khun Tettyan! But a few more points worth noting:

Just because JR Kyushu is turning an operational profit doesn't mean that eg. the Kyushu Shinkansen is actually profitable overall, especially as the second half of the line won't be open until 2010. (Currently, you have to ride a Shinkansen to Fukuoka, change there to an ordinary service, and then change to the Kyushu Shinkansen for the last hop down to Kagoshima!) Track construction is mostly paid by the government and doesn't really show up JR Kyushu's books.

That said, even the "baby JRs" are doing a pretty good job of trying to make their services more attractive, eg. JR Kyushu has opened up Swiss-style premium sightseeing services on scenic lines and gotten ridership and profits up. An informative article here (http://www.jrtr.net/jrtr40/s48_tak.html).

And the full scale of integration achieved by some of the private railways has to be seen to be believed. You can ride a Tokyu train from your Tokyu apartment to your Tokyu-run office where you listen to Tokyu's radio station, go shopping in the Tokyu supermarket of the Tokyu department store and eat at the Tokyu restaurant, play a few rounds at the Tokyu golf course and go for a dip in the Tokyu spa and, exhausted, crash at the Tokyu hotel for a night's sleep. And I'm not exaggerating in the slightest, these are all culled from the Tokyu Group (http://www.tokyu.co.jp/contents_index/top.htm)'s site!

[admin]

A reader also asks: "I follow your website religiously -as it has a wealth of information.
Although I have tried looking on your site I cannot find a detailed map of proposed skytrain extension stations, particularly for the Taksin extension. I have found schematic/diagramatic maps and lists of proposed stations (revised quite often of late I see...) but not accurate road maps showing the exact location to get some idea of and walking distances to/from proposed stations.
I may have missed this on your site or maybe you can provide a link to a map.
Many thanks & keep up the good work!"

Are there any maps yet?

[The Enforcer!]

Road map? - I will you will be very lucky if you find one!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Land Exappropriation for PinklaoUndergroudn Extension to Phrannok
Thairath - Jan 4, 2006

Thairath Correspondents said after BMA has hired the consultant to handle 7.7-km Pinklao underground extension of
BTS from National Stadium to Phrannok so they cansubmit the stuydy result to Committee for Conserving and Deveoping
Rattakosin Island in Jan 2006 to get the approval for undergroudn section to pass Rattanakosin Island with a price tag of
26.285 billion Baht. The track would go undeerground infront of Wat Chaimonkhon, passing Rama 1road,Chakkaraphatdiphongse Road,
LanLuang road, Ratchadamnoen Avenue, Thonburi Railwaystation, Issaraphab road before ending up at Phran Nok.

There will be 5 stations for this Pinklao extension
1) Kasatsuek - undegroudn station at Bumrung Muang infront of Hua Chiaw hospital with the gate in front of Sino-Thai Medical Center,
BKK General Hopital, behind Europena Tower and footpaths before reachign Yotse Lane.

2) Phan fah Leelart - under Ratchadamnoen avenue before reachign Democracy Monument with the gate in front of Thewet Insurant,
Bank Thai, Din So road, and Internal Revenue Dept - BKK Area1.

3) Sanam Luang - under Ratchadamnoen Kal Avenue in front of Government Lottery Office, with the gate in front of Government Lottery Office,
Sanam Luang, WWI Monument, and Khok Wua intersection near October 14 Monument

4) Bangkok Noy - under Arun Amarin road between Siriraj hospital and Arun Amarin Bridge with the gate in front of Siriraj Hospital
(but Wat Amarinthararam would be closer) and Railwaymarket near Thonburi station

5) Yaek Fai Chai -under Phra Nok road, 600 meter far from phranNok Intersection and near the upcomign road from Phran Nok to
Phutthamonthon Sai 4 with the gate at Charansanitwongse 31 and Charansanitwongse 31/1. Thisstation is to itnercvhange with Blue Ring.

Note: The extension would DEFINITELY get very popular approval and the central government would be in SERIOUS troubles if they
obstruct this extension because it would boost more passengers who ride train to Namtok and Kanchanaburi and those who want to go to
Sanam Luang.

Note2: BMA would have to make serious consideration on the feeder buses and vans to pick upthsoe who live alogn Pinklao road up to
Southern Bus terminal to feed into Pinklao extension.

BMA would allocate 2 billion Baht for land exappropriation with the details as follows:

1. Rama1 Road - in front of Wat Chai mongkhon - 337 Sq. Wah, 0.101 Billion Baht
2. Kasatsuek Station - 1.759 Sq. Wah 0.593 billion Baht
3. Phanfah Leelart Station - 259 Sq. Wah - 0.067 billion Baht
4. Sanam Luang Station - 810 Sq. Wah, 0.210 billion Baht
5. Bangkok Noy Station - 5022 Sq. Wah 0.593 billion Baht
6. Phran Nok Station - 1719 Sq.Wah- 1.719 billion Baht


This line is to deal with traffic jam on Ratchadamnoen avenue which is already 16097 cars/day/traffic lane (741 cars/hour/traffic lane)
and Pinklao Bridge whcih already saturated the road capacity sicne the jam level have reached 18796 cars/day/traffic lane.

[The Enforcer!]

I see from the Bangkok Post yesterday that Apirak has stopped all work work on the planning of this extension.

The Enforcer!

[Fatwol]

already? Why?

[Wisarut]

It is an alligation of Bidding Collusions by TRT Members of BMA City Council as a measure for Charactor Assasinations of both BMA Governor Aphirak andDeupty BMAGovernor Samart .... andof course Taksin extension and BRT.

[Fatwol]

**sigh** like watching children playing in the sandpit...

[von Hirschhorn]

All decision makers in the Bangkok public Transport Soap (disaster) deserve a Grammy award for outstanding self interest instead of performance for the metropolis welfare e.g. a well running system and this means lines, lines and more lines, nothing else!:D

[The Enforcer!]

The THREE key questions are:

1. Is there genuine corruption in the BMA Road division?

2. If so, is the Governor involved (either directly or by responsibility)

3. What does either of the above have to do with the Skytrain?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

1) Collusions/Corruption in BMA -> Yes ...
2) Ajarn Samart and Governor Aphirak may turn blindeyes toward this corruption/collusion issue
3) This alligation has forced BMA Civil Engineer to suspend the construction of Taksin extension until the charge is cleared sicne BMA Civil Engineering section has responsibility to oversight the construction of Taksin extension.

This kind of derailign the project by charactor assasinations ONLY the ill-will ofTRT toward BMA

[otherstuff1957]

I have to say that having TRT members - the people responsible for the CRT scandle, the parking lot bribes, the cracked runways, the rent a cow scheme, the one-sided Chinese/Thai FTA, etc.., etc... - accuse anyone of corruption is incredible. The old phrase "the pot calling the kettle black" doesn't even come close to describing the irony here.

[ncr]

The old phrase "the pot calling the kettle black" doesn't even come close to describing the irony here.How true. And this from the same clique who currently try to shut down Corruption Watch! An initiative, by the way, that's not solely aimed at the government, but corruption perpetrated anywhere, by anyone (though TRT personnel is without doubt in the spotlight in these times). Brazen. Impertinent. Not to mention ultra-hypocritical.

Here's a small consolation (and proof for the stupidity of the wannabe censors): I think we can be sure they will go and host the site in a foreign country instead.

[The Enforcer!]

Ajarn Samart and Governor Aphirak may turn blindeyes toward this corruption/collusion issue
So you are saying they are as corrupt as those who actually did the corruption?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Well, Democrat has a Cronyism problem that Plagues the party from becomign the Great Party ...

[Yappofloyd]

Land Exappropriation for PinklaoUndergroudn Extension to Phrannok
Thairath - Jan 4, 2006

Thairath Correspondents said after BMA has hired the consultant to handle 7.7-km Pinklao underground extension of
BTS from National Stadium to Phrannok so they cansubmit the stuydy result to Committee for Conserving and Deveoping
Rattakosin Island in Jan 2006 to get the approval for undergroudn section to pass Rattanakosin Island with a price tag of
26.285 billion Baht. The track would go undeerground infront of Wat Chaimonkhon, passing Rama 1road,Chakkaraphatdiphongse Road,
LanLuang road, Ratchadamnoen Avenue, Thonburi Railwaystation, Issaraphab road before ending up at Phran Nok.

There will be 5 stations for this Pinklao extension
1) Kasatsuek - undegroudn station at Bumrung Muang infront of Hua Chiaw hospital with the gate in front of Sino-Thai Medical Center,
BKK General Hopital, behind Europena Tower and footpaths before reachign Yotse Lane.

2) Phan fah Leelart - under Ratchadamnoen avenue before reachign Democracy Monument with the gate in front of Thewet Insurant,
Bank Thai, Din So road, and Internal Revenue Dept - BKK Area1.

3) Sanam Luang - under Ratchadamnoen Kal Avenue in front of Government Lottery Office, with the gate in front of Government Lottery Office,
Sanam Luang, WWI Monument, and Khok Wua intersection near October 14 Monument

4) Bangkok Noy - under Arun Amarin road between Siriraj hospital and Arun Amarin Bridge with the gate in front of Siriraj Hospital
(but Wat Amarinthararam would be closer) and Railwaymarket near Thonburi station

5) Yaek Fai Chai -under Phra Nok road, 600 meter far from phranNok Intersection and near the upcomign road from Phran Nok to
Phutthamonthon Sai 4 with the gate at Charansanitwongse 31 and Charansanitwongse 31/1. Thisstation is to itnercvhange with Blue Ring.

Note: The extension would DEFINITELY get very popular approval and the central government would be in SERIOUS troubles if they
obstruct this extension because it would boost more passengers who ride train to Namtok and Kanchanaburi and those who want to go to
Sanam Luang.

Note2: BMA would have to make serious consideration on the feeder buses and vans to pick upthsoe who live alogn Pinklao road up to
Southern Bus terminal to feed into Pinklao extension.

BMA would allocate 2 billion Baht for land exappropriation with the details as follows:

1. Rama1 Road - in front of Wat Chai mongkhon - 337 Sq. Wah, 0.101 Billion Baht
2. Kasatsuek Station - 1.759 Sq. Wah 0.593 billion Baht
3. Phanfah Leelart Station - 259 Sq. Wah - 0.067 billion Baht
4. Sanam Luang Station - 810 Sq. Wah, 0.210 billion Baht
5. Bangkok Noy Station - 5022 Sq. Wah 0.593 billion Baht
6. Phran Nok Station - 1719 Sq.Wah- 1.719 billion Baht


This line is to deal with traffic jam on Ratchadamnoen avenue which is already 16097 cars/day/traffic lane (741 cars/hour/traffic lane)
and Pinklao Bridge whcih already saturated the road capacity sicne the jam level have reached 18796 cars/day/traffic lane.

Khun Wisarut, have those BMA consultants finished their work on the Pinklao ext or have they been joining the demos against Taksin? The sooner they finish the study the sooner all people can catch the BTS to Democracy Monument for future demos.

[Wisarut]

The latest news from Prachachart Thurakij (222 - 26 march 2006) said that the consttruction of Taksin extension is DELAYED by 6% ... and the cost overrun alogn with delay on the installation of Signal and systems will postpone the openign date
from December 2006 to March 2007

The ongoing Conflicts between Central Government and BMA also FREEZES the followign extensions:

1) Samrong extension (Onnut - Samrong)
2) Taksin Extension Phase 2 (Taksin Intersectiojh - Phetkasem)
3) Phaholyothin extension (Mochit - Saphan Mai)
4) Pinkalo extension (National Stadium - Phran Nok)

[The Enforcer!]

So no new Mass Transit in 2006 eh?

I wonder who predicted that at the New Year?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Well, It's all about Politicking ... Abhilak wants to make a speedy opening to compete with TRT despite of the Conflict with Siemens on Singal Installations ....

FUrthermore, BMA has drafted the plan for BTS extensions .... by CUTING dow nteh Section from Soi Bearing (BMA Border Pole) to Samrong ... while comign up with the 1st phase of Phaholyothin extension (Mochit - Kasetsart University) as a substitute ....

Well, Not pleasing everybody ... but it HELPS for those who are in need .... :p

[Tettyan]

Update from The Nation. I'm a bit confused about the last sentence. I thought the Cabinet has NOT changed the resolution banning joint public-private investment - the BMA is just funding the extensions entirely with its own money, no? Also, isn't there no way the Thaksin extension will be done by the end of the year?


BMA may draw money from road projects to extend Skytrain
(Update: April 24, 2006)

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) may dump some of its 16 planned road projects worth Bt20 billion in favour of extending the Skytrain lines.

Governor Apirak Kosayodhin said BMA executives would meet Tuesday to discuss the impact of oil price increases and the impact it was having on city residents.

On the agenda to Tuesday's meeting, he said, would be the possibility of extending the Skytrain from On Nut to Sukhumvit soi 107, from Mo Chit to Kaset intersection and from Taksin bridge to Bang Wa.

The On Nut extension was originally planned to Samrong, 8.9km - the extension to soi 107 would be just 5.2km.

The Mo Chit line extension was originally planned for Sapan Mai bridge, the possible Kaset intersection extension stops short of that.

Apirak said reducing the extension of the On Nut and Mo Chit routes would save the BMA a lot of money and make extending three routes a possibility.

The BMA's Traffic and Transport Department estimates the three extensions will cost almost Bt30 billion. Apirak said he had assigned his deputy, Panit Wikitset, to review the 16 road projects currently on the drawing board, to see if some could be postponed and the money reallocated to extending the Skytrain routes.

If the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) plan was to be reviewed, Apirak said he would first consult with the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority. The BRT plan is now before Cabinet and, if approved, may begin operations with a trial service on Rama III Rd from Rajapreuk to Bangkok Bridge, he said.

To avoid corruption scandals like those that have plagued 16 costly road projects, Apirak said an independent panel would be established to monitor the Skytrain extension budget.

The Skytrain extensions have been delayed for a long time because of a 2000 Cabinet resolution that required the project to be 100-per-cent funded by the private sector.

The BMA has petitioned the government to have the resolution changed, to allow the BMA to join in the investment - leading to the BMA-funded Skytrain extension from Taksin Bridge to Thon Buri, slated to begin providing services by the end of the year.

The Nation

[Yappofloyd]

Some goods news at last unless it is just grandstanding. A good way for the BMA to take the lead as it promised to do last year and get some of these extenions under way. Makes sense to do the On Nut ext first as would be the easiest to construct.

There may actually be some light at the end of the tunnel....

[Wisarut]

Demands so High for Onnut - Bearing section that BTS and BMA cannot REFUSE .... So long the track is within Jurisdiction of BMA, The central governemnt cannot Meddle into BMA Affairs .... :p

Sorry for thsoe who live in Samrong/Paknam/Pra Pradaeng though ... You may hve to wait until those who live in Phetkasem and Kasetsart U have their dreams fulfill....

[The Enforcer!]

The central governemnt cannot Meddle into BMA Affairs
We are not taking bets on this are we?

The Enforcer!

[otherstuff1957]

I think that the central government may be just a bit distracted by other issues at the moment.;) This may be a good time for the BMA to proceed with their plans.

[Wisarut]

BMA Planign to Transfer 20 Billion Baht Budget from 16 Controversial Project
to Finance BTS Extension
Manager - April 25, 2006

BMA Board agrees tpo Transfer the budgert of the 16 Controversial project to finance 3 BTS Extension

1) Taksin Intersection - Bang Waht (4.5 km, 4 Billion Baht)
2) Onnut - Bearing (5.2 km, 9.6 billion Baht)
3) Mochit - Kaset (5 km, 11 billion Baht)
Total 24.6 billlion Baht

BMA Boards are asking Deputy BMA Governor Mr. Phanit and Ms. Bannasophit to discuss with BMA traffic bureau and BMA Civil work Bureau to allocate the budget alogn with performing EIA and public hearings for additional Info.

This project is so urgent that BMA Board promptly approve the project.

Section from Onnut to Bearing would carry additional 80000 passengers a day
form the current 400,000-500000 passengers a day ... so there are 5 stations on this section

For the case of Mochit to Kaset, it was initially Mochit ot Saphan Mai but budget constrains along with the problem on Boworndej Statue at Laksi Intersection has compelled BMA to stops short at kaset

Taksin - Bang Wah line can be started promptly since the main structure ... The budget for this Taksin - Bang Wah section can be started in 2007-2008 due to the fact that it is in the budget year of 2006 ....

BMA are compelled to do land exappropriation near Djit Phochana restaurant as the way to go across lad Phrao Intersection. Some part of flyover bridge must be modified ... :(

[Wisarut]

26 Billion for 3 BTS Extensions - with Land Exappropriation
Dailynews - April 26, 3006

1) Onnut - Bearing (5.25 km - 9 Billion Baht)
2) Mochit - Kaset (5.1 km - 11 Billion Baht)
3) Taksin Intersection - Bang Wah (4.5 km - 6 billion Baht)
Total: 26 Billion Baht

BMA would do Bangna extension (Onnut - Bearing) and Taksin Extension Phase 2 (Taksin Intersection - Bang Wah) first ... Kaset extension would not be started until 2007 sicne they have to allcate the Year 2007 budget ... all to be done in 2009 ...

The financeial means for this project is from the 20 billion Budget fro 166 controversial project which has been scrapped ... If BMA Traffic bureau wants to revive some of 16 controversial projects, they have to ask for it in Year 2007 Budget ...

Kaset section has LOTS of trouble to pass Lad Phrao intersection .. There are 2 choices for this

1) Follow Phaholyothin Road and use pillar of 21-meter height to pass DOnmuang Tollway to reach central Plaza Lad Phrao -> 10.20 Billion Baht
2) Turning right after passing Djit Phochana Restaurant and hten turn left after passing St. John School before following Phaholyothin road 9.1 bilion Baht for contruction and 0.39 billion Baht for land exappropriation at Djit Phochana and St. John School

The price for Kaset Flyover Modification to accomodate Skytrain
is 0.6 billion Baht

[Wisarut]

Land Exappropriation instead of 21-mter tall pillars across Tollway
Thairath - April 26, 2006

BMA City hall has come the results on 3 BTS extensions

1) BMA Traffic Bureau had to handle the studies on each project to complete the EIA alogn with public hearings at the shortst time possible.
2) BMA traffic bureau has to cooperate with Metropolitan Polcie Dept to hande the traffic in the starting month of school year in Mid May
3) Budget allocation
3.1) Bang Na extension (Onnut - Bearing - 5.25 km): 6.5 billion Baht
3.2) Kaset Extension (Mochit - Kasetsart U. - 5.1 km): There are 2 choices:
3.2.1) Going alogn Phaholyothin road with 21-22 meter tall pillar across Tollway -> 10.2 billion Baht more expensive and
not fit into engieering perspectives
3.2.2) Land exappropriaiton near Djit Phochana restaurant and St. John University with a priuce tag of 0.3 billion Baht -> total 9.1 billion Baht
Cheaper deal ... but ned to follow the same pattern as Victory Monument CUrve
3.3) Taksin Intersection - Bang Wah (4.5 km): 6.5 billion Baht
Total: 22.1 billion Baht (for land exapproipriation case) or 23.2 billion Baht for 22-meter pillars

[Wisarut]

ASphirak Trying to Push BTS extensions to Kaset - Bang Wah - Bearing
Matichon - April 29, 2006

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9707/2006042907515808qj.jpg

After the visiting the construction site of Taksin extension Phase 1 (saphan Taksin - Taksin Intesection -> 2.2 km) at Charoen Nsakhon station
alogn with the place for constructing Bang na extennsion (Onnut - Bearing) and Kaset extension (Mochit - Kaset) on April 28, 2006,
Governor Aphirak is makign a decisive Strike trying to push the budget plan for 3 BTS Extensions by the end of this year without wating for the central Government Budget. The buget coem form 16 suspeneded projects ... It will take abotu 3-4 years to get all 3 extensions done from 24 billion Baht budget
(with the annual payment of 6-7 billion Baht) which will be in BKK Board on May 2, 2006.

These 3 extnsion woudl be opened phase by phase basis with 2-3 station for each phase. Further public hearing wou