1.7 Trillion Baht Mega-Projects

[The Enforcer!]

In the press yesterday they were saying that the spending on the 1.7 Trillion Baht ($42m) Mega-Projects starts on 1st October 2005.

I assume the Purple/Blue extension is in that figure - does it also include the Orange line, Blue Circle & Spur and the remainder of the Purple line?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Definitely, the 1.7Trillion Baht Budget would cover the followign routes:

1) Blue Line & Blue Ring
2) Purple Line
3) Orange Line
4) Yellow Line (if BTSstill rtefuse to sell to Premier Thaksin's kins and cronies)
5) Red Line Commuter Network & Suvannabhum Airprot Link

[ncr]

1.7 Trillion Baht ($42m) Mega-Projects That's 42 billion USD, not million!

[Yappofloyd]

Surely the 1.7 Trillion figure is in respect of all the so called 'mega-projects' (dams, bridges, roads, power stations and other useless pork barreling!) and not just mass transit .

Each subway project is only mean't to cost about 1.5-2.5 billion US each. Or has someone decided to include gold plated escalators and stairs in each station?

42 billion US would build a world class mass transit system for bangkok with about 15-20 lines (corruption included)!

[The Enforcer!]

That's 42 billion USD, not million!
...not after Taksin, Suriya etc have had their cut ... $42m will be all that is left to build the network!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

So accroding to the Post 1.7 Trillion for all the projects and about a third of the figure for mass transit.

From Bangkok Post 26/08/05
The government plans to invest 563 billion baht on new light rail routes in Bangkok to supplement the existing BTS skytrain and Bangkok subway systems. Of the total investment, 425 billion baht will be in civil works funded by the government, with the remainder comprised of investment in rolling stock and equipment to be jointly funded by the government and private operators.

The investments are part of the government's 1.7 trillion baht in megaproject investment plans. In addition to new mass transit systems, the megaprojects include investments in power, water, transport, education and public health facilities.

[ncr]

Aaaaarghhh, that goddamn "Light Rail" again - who planted this word into reporters' heads, never to be forgotten again??? It must have been indelibly burned into their memories. (No matter if it's the Post or the Nation.)

Once and for all, unless we're talking about some vague plan to build a monorail, Bangkok doesn't have and will not have any Light Rail Systems.

[Wisarut]

Details on the Routes to Be Axed, Modified and Added to Please Prmier Thaksin
Bangkok Biznews - August 26, 2005
Thairath - Auigust 27, 2005

After further studies by MFC, some lines would be axed, or modified.
the government will introduce Tram, Monorail & BRT as substitutes ...
based upon the 10 Baht+ (1.2 x N travel km) scheme.

The lines to be modified according to MFC Scheme would be as follows:
Axed: Orange Line (Bang Kapi - huay Kwang - Dindaeng - Bang Plat)
Added: Yellow Monorail (Lad Phrao - Bang Kapi - Sri Nakharin)
Modified: Purple Line
Old: Bang Sue - Wong Sawang - Bang Yai
New: Bang Yai - Ngam Wongwan - Bang Khen
Sparred: Blue Ring and Blue Line
Taksin, Samrong, Paknam, Phetkasem, Paholyothin, Pinklao Extensions of BTS

This would cut doen the burnet from 550 billion Baht to 343 billion Baht

OTP feels UPSET that MFC has come up against OTP Plan.


Note: Those who live in Ramkhamhaeng-Sukhaphiban 3 feel UPSET that MFC
and the governemnt have decided to AXED the Orange Line despiute of the fact
that Orange line is to relive the congestion at Ram Khamhaeng - Lum Salee Intersection

Furthermore, thsoe Muslim students and Southerners in Ramkhamhaeng U. feel that
it is the PURE DISCREMINATION Against both Muslim and Southerners wiuth
the sanction from the government by DEPRIVING the Orange Line to relive
Traffic Suffering.

Even worse, the retaining of Blue Ring has confirmed that MRTA is goign to PLEASE
Premier Thaksin at the Expense of Bangkopkians who come from Southern region
and Muslim Bangkokians.

Sooner or later, MFC and Ministry of Finance and EVEN Premier Thaksin will see
theri EFFIGIES BURNT by Ram Khamhaeng Students .... :mad:

[The Enforcer!]

I see that the Red Route has been severely curtailed - Bang Sue to Rangsit!

Surely the whole point of the Red Route was to cross Bangkok?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Now Ai Pheng hasshown his TRUE Nature, with a consent from Premier Thaksin ...

Pheng Freezing BTS Exrtensions AGAINST BMA
Manager Daily - October 18, 2005
Matichon - October 18, 2005

Minister Pheng has come up with the plan whcih cut down the budget at the
expense of BTS Externsions to relive traffic jam along Sathon Road have been
DELIBERATELY NEGLECTED until the government got MTA to take over BTS
and MRTA. Thecabinate hasjust approved the plan this evening (October 18) -
andthe planwill be officially declatd as "PM Ofice Decree".

The totalbudget is 129.979 Billion Baht, down from 212.362 billion Baht
The biddign will be STARTEDin Feb-march 2006.

Ther are 4 lines to be done
1. Red line commuter-> Bangsue - Rangsit (24.6 km), cutting down from 70.984 billion Baht to
33.025 billion Baht

2. Airport Link extension -> Phyathai - Bangsue - Talingchan (20.4 km), cutting down from
35.154 billion Baht to 27.410 billion Baht

3. MRTA Purple line -> Bangsue - Bang Yai (23 km) , Cuttign down from 42.204 billion Baht
to 31.664 billion Baht

4. Blue Ring (Bangsue - Tha pha, Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae - 27.2 km) , Cuttign down from 64.020 billion Baht to 37.880 billion Baht

The elevated section wouldbe U-Shape to cut down the budget by 30% whiel shorten the
time by 15-20%

The governemtn will have to make 100% investment soas to introduce 15 baht Flat ticket fee (!)

The Phase 2 will come from the saving whic goign to the followign routes
with 69.163 Billion Baht Budget -> 35.638 billion Baht for Civil work and the rollign stocks and signal 33.525 billion Baht

1) Red lien commuter -> Rangsit - Chaing Rak - Ayutthaya (41.5 km)
2) Red lien commuter -> Talingchan - Salaya - Nakhon Pathom (42.6 km)
3) Suvanabhum Airporrt Link -> Suvannabhum - Chachoengsao - Chonburi (Pattaya?)(50km)

The capitalizzation will comeform 4 sources

1) Annual budget
2) Bonds
3) Taxes and Surcharges
4) Loan -> This to be done by the private sector who act as contractors with deep pockets
instead of Goverment (!) ... The governemtn woudl pay back by Barter Trading of Agriculture products (!) -> Rice, Rubber, Palm Oil, Longan, etc ...etc ...


This will be done in 3 years instead of 5-6 years (!) and Rd lien woud go from bangsue to Rangsit
by the end of 2008.

MOTC has invited Russia, France, and China (NOTE - NO direct investment from Germany at this time - due to the clandestine deal with France ... ONLY indirect investment via China ALLOWED)
to invest on this project

MOTC decided to DELAY Samrong & Taksin extension by claiming that thye would hve to wait unti
they get the MTABoard have successfully FORCE BMCL and BTSC to merge into a single operator
soas to introduce 15 baht Flat rate instead of modifying the condition to allow joint venture ..... by claimign Political Footballs done by Democrat.

This harsh and callous respoinse form MOTC have UPSET BMA, BTSC, andevenBangkokians
to such extend that BMA hascomeupwith 2 solutions

1) Temporary bus form Surasak to ThaPhra
2) BMAhas to invest Taksin line (Saphan Taksin - Tha Phra - Bang Wah) via krungthep
Thanakhom and lease the BTSrollign stocks to run the services at that section.

Even Thai netters have used Flame Throwers to write flamming post toward the government
after they have foudn that the governemtn REFUSE to invest onTaksin-Samrong extension

Oneof localThonburi people said

"Please, We desperate for Taksinextension. We suffer from traffic jam, fuel hike, foir too long...
We wait for the governemtn to fulfill the promise but htye have broken the promises (such as both
Bridge & Expressway across Chao Phraya, the new mas transit lien to Thonburi) to PLEASE your own vested interests .... Premier Thaksin, You feel NO SHAME to commit such crime to ROB our tax! We'll punish YOU in the next election"

However, the MPs and BMACiti Council from both TRT and DEM swtill keep pointing the finger to
one anotehr on who are the culplits for this logn delay project ...

BMA hasrespone by allocated2.2 billion baht for Taksin extension whcihhasto be done by BMA

Note: This very long delay Taksin extension & Samrogn extension have already ignited
frustration from Bangkokians inthe same way as the delay that caused the Tragedy at Tanyong Limo

Note2: Most peoploe have BOOED the plan fo Ai Pheng as the followign posts have suggested

http://www.manager.co.th/Daily/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000143161
Sooner or later, they will regret that they have INSULTED Bangkokians in Thonburi side of BKK

[SolidMercury]

Stunning stuff Minister Pongsak. After only a few weeks in office you've been able to cut all the projected spending for Bangkok's mass transit from fairly realistic numbers to Chinese Supersaver Projects, which have no hope of a) return, b) quality, and c) a long life. These proposals are dead-end. You are going to pay double in a few years time, and I hope you've got good insurance and lawyers.

Minister, you've also been able to destroy what had been left of a network-wide planning approach: its a pity the Orange Line doesn't lead to Charansanitwong Rd., then we would still have it. Suddenly, the link from Hualampong to Wong Wien Yai is no immediate issue anymore, and the BTS Taksin Extension can wait (BMA: pls do what you can - for your people).

I can't imagine that people at that level up there in the Thai Government are so shortsighted that they can't see the wall they are running into. Whilst waiting for the big bang to come, I would strongly suggest to Ital-Thai, Sino-Thai, CK, etc. to simply not bid on those underfunded Chinese-funded dreamworks unless you want to risk long-term court battles for your claims.

In summary: the 100 km railway lines with upteen stations access roads, etc. through the city, with tunnels and mostly on viaducts, with trains and all other systems cost less than the NBIA, a plot of say 4 by 4 km. You must be kidding. BTS original 23 km were 40 b Baht, now you want to build the same length of Blue Line Extension (incl. some tunnels) for half that money? Inflation and x-change rate have driven the local prices up by 75% over the past ten years since BTS started building. THIS DOESN'T ADD UP!

My last slim hope: PM Thaksin has a sleepless night and reconsiders this decree before endorsing it. It's gonna kill his re-election.

[The Enforcer!]

It's gonna kill his re-election.
We can only hope.

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

We can only hope.*hope *hope* *hope*

...still an awfully long time to go, though.

The classic 2B photo (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/Skytrain/stop.jpg) that has become the sad symbol of this government's policy. Makes you wanna cry. Or rather, print it out and slap it into the PM's face.

[ncr]

Note: The Skytrain saga is sort of continued in this thread (http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?t=120&page=4), with the latest unbelievable developments. :(

[The Enforcer!]

Am I the only one who realises that the only Mass Transit lines now being built are the Blue Circle/Spur and the northern part of the Purple Line?

All this hype about the Red Line (or the Dark Red and Light Red Lines) is not Mass Transit - it is high speed commuter only as it fails to serve the inner city at all!

When are we going to get TRT to do something about the inner city traffic problem? BTs to Taksin is a small start but painfully too little!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Empress Potjaman want to Punish both unruly Concubine Sudarat and Eunuch Suriya by DESTORYING both Orange line and yellow line (and Purple line for some extends) ... while hauling up thsoe peopel alogn Yellow line and Ornage line into the New City at Suvannabhum like they are hauling cattle :D :cool:

[The Enforcer!]

I am wondering if any of our great transport map makers could revise the Greater Bangkok transport plan to show ....

1. No Purple Line below Tao Pun

2. No Orange Line

3. No Yellow Line

4. No Red Line south of Yommarat

5. No Light Green Line west of National Stadium or east of On Nut

6. No Dark Green Line north of Morchit or south of Taksin

Just show that we can all see what TRT's idea of Mass Transit is ...

TRT = Thai Rot Thit!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

I think that the great resident map-maker, Khun Zoowatch, expressed much frustration about the constant policy shifts on the plans that he gave up attemoting any updates.

However, you could just get a 5 year old to do a quick short scribble on paper and it would probably give us all a better idea of what will be built than what has going on in the goverment!

[Wisarut]

Khun Zoowatch, Ai Pheng (and soem extend Ai Suriya) got abotu 40 Million Baht (or even 400 million Baht) each time he change each route or each project :eek: No wonder, Ai Pheng keep changing the route or the plan
as a daily routine. :eek:

[ncr]

Khun Wisarut,

I believe you these guys are corrupt to the bone, but your accusation is somewhat unsubstantiated......

"40 or even 400 million"..... how did you arrive at these figures - and exactly from who and for what?

[The Enforcer!]

Guys,

I am getting oh so confused!

Now we have 10 lines at 550 Billion Baht but not the original 10 lines - can anyone summarise what the new/revised line network is and hazard a guess if it has any chance of being built (say) in my lifetime?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

10 Lines of mass transit system will be:



1. Dark Red line commuter (Mahachai - Rangsit with extension to Ayutthaya)
This line is to secure the voters from Mahachai as well as voters from Northern BKk Suburbs.

2. Light Red Airport Link (Suvannabhum - Talingchan with extension to Nakhon Pathom) This line is to secure the voters from Salaya, Phutthamonthon, and Nakhon pathom even though those who live alogn phet kasem Road from Nonkhem to Om Noy-Om Yai have kept RANTING to the governemnet that

"Those who live in Salaya DESERVE No Red line Commuter network -> We want ONLY Subway extension form Lak Song to Om Noy-Omyai via Nong Khaem... Those High So from Mahidol at Salaya hve fancy cars which we have NOT ... You just keep driving, That's all "

Those who lvie in Salaya have responsed to thsoe who live that
"What a heck are you talkign about YOU SOBs! We have fed up with the worsenign traffic jam so we badly want to DUMP our fancy cars ... So, the lien that goto Nakhon pahiom is a godsent for us! .... You have BMTA bus and Intercity Buses to serves you .... Why don't you are them to fucntion as feeders?"

3. MRTA Blue Line (Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae, Bangse - Tha Phra) ->
PM HAS to acoomplish this line at all cost

4. MRTA Purple (Bang Yai- Bang Sue) -> The promise that become a big and tightening political NOOSE)

5. MRTA Orange Line (Bang Kapi - Bang Bumru) -> This is the line which Empress don't want to SEE the existence as the punishment fro thsoe Ramkhamhaeng students and the way to protect her dear prince from becoming "princess" .... but the popular demand has puish this line back even though NIOT at the 1st phase

6. BTS Dark Green (Mochit - Saphan Mai) - by popular demand ... btu cut dow the section from Saphan Taksin to Bang Wah sicne BMA has already seized this section.


7. BTS Light Green (Onut - Samrong) - by popular demands but NO line
to Pak Nam at the time

8. Yellow LRT Line (Lad Phrao - Sri nakharin - Samrong) ->
The Empress and Eunuch Pheng don't want the existence fo this line even though the Great Concubien WANT this line so bad that she can reactivate the Mobs from Lad Phrao road to give a HELL LOT to the Empress ...

9. Pink Monorail -> (Pakkret - Chaeng Watthana - Suwinthawongse) -> Nobody would use this line UNLESS there is DIRECT connect with IMPACT COnvention center which the Emperor and Empress DESPITES

10. Pink-Yellow Line (Minburi - Bang Chan - NIDA - Bang Kapi -Samrong)
Thsi lien is to connect Yellow LRT and Pink Monorail ... and this lien will share the same yellwo track from Bang Kapi to Samrong to boost more passengers

Oh -> ANotehr the source said that this 10th Line is ACTUALLY the extension of Orange Line from Bang Kapi to Min Buri via Sukhaphiban 3 Road .... If those who live in Sukhaphiban 3 could poitn out that thsoe who live in Serithai road cna choose either Pink Monorail or the Extrension of Ornage line via Sukhaphiban3 Road due to higher density than Serithai Road .... However thsoe wholvie in Serithai raod such as thsoe who live in NHA Housing, NIDA students or even Siam Park area would YELL aganist who live in Sukhapiban 3 Road to stick with feeder buses ....



This line is To Please Muslim voters and those who live alogn Serithai road .... at the expense of thsoe who live alogn Sukhaphiban 3 road ....

[The Enforcer!]

Thanks Kh. Wisarut for your usual excellent summary of real life.

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Now Premeir Thaksin want to finance the 550 billion Baht mass transit project of 10 lines .... by barter tradign with Jasmine rice sticky rice and Para rubber products ... but Democrat that JEERED Permier Thaksin that it would take millions of acres for rubber plantation to realize such projects.

Now, Minister Thanong of MOF has asked the governemtn to boost mroe savign to finance this megaproject ... Sound good -> but Premier Thaksin, You have spoiled the people with your populist projects and they still sunk into heavy debts ... I just WONDER How can you raise the public savings at all?

You should ask your cornies as wellas your families to sacrifice theri own wealths to finance megaprojects instead of sending your savings into Swiss Bank Accounts as you keep doing ... Now, we have known that you have already trasfer at least 150 billion Baht into Swiss Bank Accounts during and you have picked up your dear son to learn about the codes to access into those accounts durign yoru European trips.

[ooddy]

I have seen somewhere in the Forum regarding the details of each line: i.e. length, number of stations, cost estimate.
Would you be kind enough to recap those items for us?

And what about the implementation schedule, I understand there is going to be a big meeting with all big guys from around the world of rail transit, next week,
and perhaps there is a one big contract let for 500 triilion bahts...for all 10 lines, all at once.

[The Enforcer!]

After listening to Sondhi's latest I assume the 550 Billion Baht is split 183.3 Billion on transit projects and 366.6 Billion for Taksin and his associates?

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

Anyone have any details of which routes were now (finally) proposed and the Foreign reaction?

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Anyone have any details of which routes were now (finally) proposed and the Foreign reaction?

I could imagine the following:

- Incredulous shake of the head?
- Tormented smile?

"No, Prime Minister, we cannot construct all lines and single-handedly advance the investment costs of 550 billion Baht, and above all, we cannot accept Thai chickens and longans as payment." (Note: for some added irony, they should consider paying in peanuts.)

BTW, the whole idea fatally reminds me of a certain infamous project awarded to a company from Hongkong whose name begins with "H" and ends with "L" - wasn't that a turnkey project with massive billion dollar amounts as well, and ultimately failed due to corruption and near-bankruptcy of the contractor........

[ooddy]

I've heard a lot of talk about bartering system to pay for the rail transit system, a la Thaksin.

This is very interesting, is Thailand for sale, big time? Is Thaksin willing to barter the city of Chiengmai for the Purple Line or the Orange Line?

[The Enforcer!]

I've heard a lot of talk about bartering system to pay for the rail transit system, a la Thaksin.

This is very interesting, is Thailand for sale, big time? Is Thaksin willing to barter the city of Chiengmai for the Purple Line or the Orange Line?
Strangely Taksin seems to understand how that corrupt Bartercard system works in that you give out your goods for Barter but also pay a Cash fee to do so - and we all known where the cash fees will go!

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

Channel 11 suggested that there were 'Mega-Projects' designated for the upcountry provinces too; although for the life of me I haven't been able to find any info on this. Given that this is undoubtedly a nod towards the next election, I'd be glad if someone could point out any links or articles on provincial projects; although my instinct tells me they are making it up as they go along, as there are no real plans as yet.

[ooddy]

there seems to be no projects planned for the rural areas...I'm not sure why...

Another thing I'm sort of puzzled at a statement by our fearless PM is that the selection of mega-projects prize winners will be conducted in the most transparent, so much so that he will be personnally involved in the selection process himself.

This is a classic oxymoron of the Thaksin empire. How could you have an transparency of the process with him being there...dictating the decision?

Not only that, as of now, I haven't heard that there is any criteria or terms of reference on how they are going to review and analyse proposers.

[Wisarut]

The Megaproject on Mass transit System in BVKK and vincinities have already OUTRAGED thge voters from the rural areas ...

Those rural folks want massive doubnel trackign as well as the completion of the followign routes

1) Denchai - Chaign Rai - Chiang Saen
2) Khirirat Nikhom - Phang Nga - Tha Nun
3) Bua Yaio - Roy Ed - Mukdaharn - Nakhon Phanom

If the governemtn FAILED to listen to the rural voters, the rural voters wouyld like to Impose "YEAR ZERO" to thsoe Bankokians in the Same way Khmer REouge had applied to those who live in urban areas .... :mad: :eek:

[Wisarut]

The Alternative of "Year Zero" is Thai version of "Death railways" which Hundreds Thousands if NOT Millions are Dead or Buried Alive to Complete the Government's Megaprojects. :D ;) :rolleyes: :cool: :p :eek:

[Yappofloyd]

I've heard a lot of talk about bartering system to pay for the rail transit system, a la Thaksin.

This is very interesting, is Thailand for sale, big time? Is Thaksin willing to barter the city of Chiengmai for the Purple Line or the Orange Line?

Khun ooddy, you will find that in the last couple of years there has been lots of quite silly ideas of bartering farm based goods for high tech equipment from overseas (see http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showthread.php?p=7642#post7642 Fairly strange for a capitalist like Taksin but as The Enforcer rightly says there is usually a cash fee pocketed on the side.

Don't be surprised to see papaya for the Purple Line, mandarins for the orange line and bananas for the Yellow Line. perhaps limes for the lime green line. Maybe we should barter a bunch of TRT pollies for a rolling stock assembly line:D

[Wisarut]

Khun Thanong Pitthaya from MOF siad the governmetn should extend ythe project for 10 liens from 5 years to 7 years, but theo real estate developers said 7 years isNOT enough, 10-20 years is the more probable period

[The Enforcer!]

Don't be surprised to see papaya for the Purple Line, mandarins for the orange line and bananas for the Yellow Line. perhaps limes for the lime green line. Maybe we should barter a bunch of TRT pollies for a rolling stock assembly line:D
LOL!!

As far as I can see the whole 'bartering' thing is a ploy to further delay any start of any Mass Transit network and thus when it all fails they can blame us 'farang' for not supporting Thailand and thus TRT will get re-elected as they will blame their failure on other people!

The Enforcer!

[ooddy]

I sort of heard that rumor from an anonymous source that is the case of a delay tactic too...

But realistically, we all know that this grand sceme is not going to materialise anyway in the near future...No investors are foolish enough to get hooked.

[Wisarut]

SUch a grand schem can be happed ONLY when those power that be have made a Frausian Deal ... just like sellign a soul to Lucifer for a longevity. :D :eek: :cool: :rolleyes: :p ;)

[Yappofloyd]

I don't really understand why you would want 'flexibility' in the TORs. Usually companies want clear TORs for a clear scope of what is wanted and to evaluate security of investment return. "...maximum flexibility in proposing various options...", sounds very uncertain and suspect to me. If the govt is asking foreign firms to come up with projects for various needs then that is a very different process. However, the govt has been selling many of these projects as having been planned and costed. As more time passes it becomes clear that not much has actually been thought through or planned or properly costed. Should we be surprised....unfortunately not!:(

Megaproject bid terms will stress flexibility WICHIT CHANTANUSORNSIRI (Bkk Post 28/12/05)

Project contracts under the 1.8-trillion-baht megaproject programme will not fix terms of reference in order to allow prospective bidders maximum flexibility in proposing various options, says Rungson Sriworasat, deputy director-general of the Comptroller-General's Department. Establishing terms of reference or even stipulating the criteria of eligible bidders would only limit flexibility, officials believe. Mr Rungson said that instead, authorities wanted leading international and local contractors to propose their own solutions on how to best develop Thailand's infrastructure in various areas. He said further details for the bidding process were expected to be finalised this week for review by deputy prime minister Visanu Krue-ngarm.

The megaproject programme will cover hundreds of billions of baht in new projects in the mass transit, power, water, transport, social services and education sectors over the next five years. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has said that top firms from around the world would be invited to participate, deemed critical by authorities to support future economic growth. Mr Rungson said a top-level committee appointed by the cabinet and chaired by the prime minister would be responsible for setting policies for each project. The committee would in turn oversee separate working groups for each project, assisted by technical experts to help evaluate bid proposals.

[The Enforcer!]

I don't really understand why you would want 'flexibility' in the TORs.
I could be wrong but doesn't 'flexibility' in this case covertly refer to corruption .... Companies will get the work depending on how 'flexible' they are?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

If the contractor pays the Leader as well as his associated half the prices of the megaproject,not just 5% or 10% as usual, the project will get speedy approval :p :cool: ;) :D

[ooddy]

With no rules; anything goes. Everything will be ok, it's up to the leader, PM, to decide who will get the job. This will leave a big gap for a shoddy deal to come through, and no one can complain about it. Because they said all along: no rules.

This is a classic third-world procurement process.

[Scott]

While suspicion is certainly warranted, there is a legitimate case for flexibility in TORs. I've been involved in a project where bidding contractors felt that an overly specific ToR had limited their ability to propose more efficient systems. The RFIs that they submitted list numerous suggested alternatives that may have speeded up the construction or improved the quality, but the response was always that the contractor was to follow the requirements of the ToR.

In an article in today's Bangkok Post (http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/29Dec2005_news12.php) Thaksin says all projects over 1 billion baht should be put on hold while e-auction transparency is improved. This should be finished by February, but that assumes that new regulations are in place by then. It sounds like it will probably delay the mega-project bids.

[Yappofloyd]

While suspicion is certainly warranted, there is a legitimate case for flexibility in TORs. I've been involved in a project where bidding contractors felt that an overly specific ToR had limited their ability to propose more efficient systems. The RFIs that they submitted list numerous suggested alternatives that may have speeded up the construction or improved the quality, but the response was always that the contractor was to follow the requirements of the ToR.

Thanks Scott, your comments are appreciated and I hope that the flexibility is for the reason you describe.
However, quotes in an article in todays Nation suggest that there will be more 'backward pikes and somersaults' on this front - see bold (not sure that gymnastic/diving scoring to characterise a tender suitability process is a very good analogy!). Also, the line "and special scores will be awarded depending on each bidders’ proposals on payment, interest cost and other factors" could be interpreted in a number of ways.

Terms for transit project bids settled The Nation Published on December 30, 2005

The Transport Ministry has finalised the draft of the terms of reference for bidding on the Bt550-billion mass-transit project, with a three-stage screening process progressing from construction experience to technology to price. The draft will be given to all companies interested in bidding for contracts on the 10-route mega-project, Therdsak Setthamanop, the deputy permanent secretary of the Transport Ministry, told reporters yesterday.

“The scoring method is like that used in gymnastics or diving circles. We have specific points for compulsory patterns,” said Therdsak, who chairs the mass-transit construction working committee. The bidders will have to submit three sets of tender documents and will have to pass each stage before proceeding to the next.

In the first stage, they will have to show that they are qualified in terms of construction experience, equipment, cash flow, construction quality and environmental monitoring. In the second stage the bidders will have to show their construction technologies in detail, after which their proposed prices will be discussed. In the third stage, two scoring methods will be applied: those with the lowest bid price will score 80-90 points and special scores will be awarded depending on each bidders’ proposals on payment, interest cost and other factors, including the number of routes they are bidding for.

Bidders for more than one route will also have to specify what discount they will offer if they win, Therdsak said. “For example, if the bidder wants to bid for two routes and quotes the first route’s cost at Bt1 billion and the second route at Bt800 million, how much can it discount the combined price?” he said. Therdsak expected the draft terms of reference to be completed by January 20 to give potential bidders ample time to absorb the information. The working committee will then be prepared for their recommendations, he said.

“Our goal is to ensure that the country reaps the maximum benefit from this bidding. We also want to attract as many companies as possible. Thus, we drew a very broad picture on the qualifications ,” he said. The government plans to select bidders for the mass-transit project in the first quarter of next year so that construction can begin in the middle of the year. The mass-transit project is the largest of the Bt1.7-trillion worth of mega-projects planned by the government.

[Wisarut]

Now, ther is arumour insider MOTC that The Leader is going to Kick Ai Pheng out before replacign him with The Great Concubine with Glasses ....

This is a sign from the Leader to warn the Empress and the Prince that they should not meddle into the project that secure the popularity in BKK against Democrat since the melddlign on Mass transit system of the Empress via the Eunuch like AI Pheng have RUINED the popularity of TRT so bad that it will ruin the upcoming Senate Election (where they are goign to put the puppets to run Senate), BMA Election in mid 2006.

The resons for the attempt to CANCEL the orage line are:

1) Revenge against Ramkhamhaeng people who kicked teh Prince out of the university.

2) The Revange against the Great Concubine who live in Bang Kapi area since the great concubine goes rivaling the Empress to gainthe favor from the Leader

[The Enforcer!]

The Great Concubine with Glasses .... the Empress ..... the Prince .... the Eunuch

...and I thought England led the world in Pantomine.

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

Seems the CEO PM is losing his touch....everyone is in the dark on these projects. Very concerning that there is still so much "confusion" about the mass transit plans but this is TRT Thailand!

Briefing leaves investors in the dark Megaprojects' plan details seen as vague
POST REPORTERS (BKK Post 27/01/06)

Many of the nearly 1,300 foreign investors who gathered yesterday at Government House for a briefing on the state's 1.8-trillion-baht megaprojects expressed bewilderment at the lack of clarity of the massive plan. Lothar Herrmann, president and chief executive officer of Siemens Limited in Thailand, said the government failed to clearly describe its proposals or identify the framework and specifications of the project development. His colleague, senior vice-president Joern Grasse, added that such lack of clarity would make it hard for potential investors to evaluate investment costs.

For instance, he said, the government provided only minor details on the proposed 10 new mass transit rail routes without specifying the number of stations and trains for each. Jean-Pierre Gollot, vice-president of Alstom Transport Asia-Pacific, expressed concern about the difficulty of gauging the government's expectations as investors were given only broad guidelines about the projects. A Danish executive of a communication equipment company wondered whether all the projects, particularly those involving defence, have the government's full support in terms of funding. He said barter trade is impractical.

Investors at the workshop yesterday represented leading companies from 29 nations, mostly from Japan, followed by Singapore, Europe and the United States. Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday briefed them about the government-supported megaprojects covering mass rail transit systems, water management systems, information networks, defence modernisation, agriculture, science and technology, culture and public health under the so-called Thailand Modernisation framework.

The government pledged to offer them flexibility and transparency with some regulations relaxed in the bidding contests. The government set a broad guideline promising to give them freedom to design their proposals so they would be able to provide Thailand with the best technology and implementation methods. Mr Thaksin said the process would enable the government to choose the best international expertise with the best offers.

''Generally, for large projects processed under tight state regulations, the opportunity is quite slim for us [the government] to get good things. This time we offer opportunities for those who know their industries well to come up with their proposals for us to choose,'' he said. The government has set April 28 as the deadline for interested parties to put forward their technical proposals. About one to two months later, they will then be invited to tender financial proposals. Screening is expected to be completed by September with the first project to be embarked on by the end of this year.

To ensure transparency, ministry-level committees would screen the tenders before submitting them to the policy committee chaired by Mr Thaksin and the cabinet would have the final say. The government has promised to conduct all of the screening process publicly, such as through live television and radio broadcasts.

Mass transit projects alone attracted more than 400 interested developers and also drew the most critical comments. An executive from a French consulting firm said Thailand's current mass transit system was ''confusing'' and the government's vague terms and guidelines did not help. Denis de Baecque, chairman of the consulting service DB Impact, called on the government to sort out the problem of too many operators in the system.

''Whoever is entering the bid, they have to talk with at least three existing operators for the skytrain and the subway, and more players like the State Railway of Thailand for the airport link and even the former operator like Hopewell for the use of their huge poles,'' he said. ''It will not work to bring in new ideas as invited by the government under this complicated system.'' He suggested that the government look to Hong Kong or Singapore for models of an efficient mass transit system.

Prommin Lertsuridej, the prime minister's secretary-general, said evaluation of proposals would take into account all aspects, such as technical expertise, financing, investment return and the repayment period. Finance Minister Thanong Bidaya said for the financing proposals the ministry would take into account not only financial return but also economic return and net present value.

[The Enforcer!]

My ticket to this event obviously went astray!

The Enforcer!

[ooddy]

As I understand it, Siemens and Alstorm are two contenders ready to jump in whatever it takes to submit the proposals...They must know something nobody else doesn't.

[ooddy]

Now there are some documents regarding the Mass Transit element of the Mega Projects. You need to log in at the NESDB website, go to Thailand: partnership for Development on the left banner, then Modernizing logistics system, Ministry of Transport, and click on document. But unfortunately it's in an .rar format.

You will need to find and download the WinRAR program to be able to unpack the document to .pdf format.

This is a very user-unfriendly way to get access the documents. Whoever thought of the process so no one can get in...!...But I got them unpacked anyway.

There are two files: logistic invitation4; and invitation for proposals__final__MRTA.

[ooddy]

The following are excerpts from the Mass Transit Projects bidding requirements:


5. REQUIRED CONTENTS OF PROPOSAL

Proposals, which are to be prepared in English, should provide a total solution, including:
1. Experience/ Expertise/ Financial Status
2. Analysis / Assessment of Existing situation and future demand
3. Technical / implementation approach & methodology & standard
4. Economic & financial return
5. Financial proposal, term & condition of payment
6. Value & benefit to Thailand & the Thai people
7. Operation model
8. Key milestones for development & project implementation
9. Critical success and failure factors / risk assessment for implementation
10. Obligation of the implementation partner

Specific requirements are outlined below
Qualification of Bidder
Bidders shall provide details of the following:
o Legal Registration applicable for the Works
o Company Financial Record (audited accounts for previous 3 years)
o Company Management Capability
o Company Resources & Workload
o Company Experience
In Thailand & the region
For construction of similar size and type
For the proposed technology
o History of Performance
o History of Dispute Resolution

Mass Transit Network Development Analysis
The bidder will need to demonstrate their understanding of the requirements for the proposed System, including:
o Catchment area
o Ridership, both initial and long term
o Expansion requirements
o Levels of service
o Interface with other transit lines
o Multimodal transport interface
o FIRR
o EIRR


Technical Descriptions
Technical details, drawings and specifications shall be provided to allow assessment for the particular technology proposed. Assessment shall focus on:
o Level of service provided
o General technical standards and quality
o Compatibility with existing technology
o Expandability
o Interface with other lines and multimodal transport
o Reliability, Availability, Maintainability and Safety (RAMS) / systems assurance
o Systems Integration
o Construction impacts

Financial and Economic Benefits to Thailand
Proposals shall detail financial and economic benefits to Thailand as a whole, providing details to facilitate assessment, such as:
o Economic benefit (time related factors)
o Urban Development: (housing / transit orientated development / social & community benefits)
o Property Development: (transit orientated development / social & community benefits)
o Railway manufacturing industry development
o Human resource development


Implementation Plan & Programme
Proposals shall include details that allow assessment of the bidders ability to implement the project and their associated programme, including;
o Programmes & Deliverables: including Construction, manufacture, installation, testing & commissioning and start-up programmes
o Management Process: Project Management & Coordination Plans & Staff Organisation
o Quality Management: Quality assurance and control plans
o Safety and Environmental Plans
o Construction, manufacture and installation methodologies
o Systems Integration Plan
o Systems Assurance Plan
o Start-up Plan: Testing and Commissioning, Operations & Maintenance and Training Plans
o Operating Plan


Financial & Commercial Proposal
Financial information may vary depending upon bidders commercial intentions, but shall include elements that impact the effective cost to the Thai Government, such as:
o Initial cost: (considering initial construction cost, fixed lump sum or other pricing, index pegging and payment currency)
o Life cycle costs: (considering operations, maintenance, upgrading & expansion for target capacity and replacement)
o Government contributions (such as Government land provided and tax benefits)
o Value ($ / passenger – km)

The commercial proposal will include commercial terms and financing models proposed and may include:
o Finance costs passed to Government implications (such as fixed interest rate / floating rate)
o Payment terms (progress payments / balloon payment)
o Undertaking (completion guarantee / guarantor / default provision)
o Source of funding (sovereign / development bank)


6. BIDDING PROCESS AND SCHEDULE

In order to achieve the required implementation programme, the following process will be adopted:

o Invitation to submit proposals issued on 26 Jan 06
o Proposals to be submitted by 28 Apr 06
o Government appointed panel to finalise selection of successful bidder by end Jul 06


The proposal, prepared in English, should not exceed 200 A4 size pages of single line text in a minimum 10pt size typeface, excluding support catalogues or material of a general nature. Five bound copies and one loose leaf copy (suitable for reproduction) and an electronic version on CD should be supplied.
The proposal must be submitted by 15.00 hours on 28 April 2006 in a sealed envelope marked “BANGKOK MASS TRANSIT DEVELOPMENT IMPLEMENTATION PROPOSAL” to the following address:

Chairman of the Mega-projects Management Committee
Ministry Of Transport
Rajdamnemok Avenue
Bangkok 10100
Thailand

Proposals may be sent either by mail, overnight courier, or hand delivered. Whichever method is chosen, the bidder shall be responsible for the actual delivery of the proposal to the address above before the deadline.

7. INFORMATION

For further information please contact:
Director-General
Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning
35 Petchaburi Road, Ratchathewi
Bangkok 10400
Thailand
Tel: 662-2154545
Fax: 662-2167395
www.bangkokmasstransit.com

[Wisarut]

New Subway Ticket Prices on July 3, 2006
Than Setthakij - 16-19 Feb 2006

BMCL has told the press that BMCL is oign to readjust the subway ticket prices from 14-36 Baht to 15 - 39 Baht to be in line with inflation, readjust every 2 years.

BMCL has strong determination to fight for bidding the mass transit megaprojects whcih will be held in April 28, 2006.

[Wisarut]

The current political turbulence has effectively Delayed the MOTC projects from April 28, 2006 to May or June 2006 since they have to see the election results and set up the new committtes to handle the megaproject .... So, the investors will have to submit the plan on May or June 2006 so the decision will be held on August 2006

The delayed projected at MOTC canb be lised as follows:

1) 2000 New BMTA Aircon buses of Euro 3 type with price tag of 23.5 billion Baht.

2) Sri Nakharin - Bang Na - Samut Prakarn Expressway with a price tag of 25.594 billion Baht

3) Sri Rach - Kanchanaphisek Outer Ring road with a price tag opf 19.313 billion Baht

3) the 3rd stage expressway (S2 section) with a price tag of 28.722 billion Baht

4) Ram Indra - Lam Lookka - Eastern Outer Ring Road
with a price tag of 13.70675 billion Baht

// -----------------------------------
550 billion Baht mass transit system in BKK also fell into the victim of cabinate dissolution


Pak Bara Port with price tag of 5.5 billion Baht along with Songkla 2 Port with a price tag of 5.04 billion Baht alogn with the railway track between 2 ports and new road also anotehr victim of house dissolution

The Intercity Motorway such as bang Pa In - Nakhon Ratchasima (200 km) and the 3rd ring road also cannot escape the wrath from house dissolution ......

The list of SRt Projects that falled into the victim of House Dissolution are

1) 1106 km Double tracking

1.1) Northern line

A) Lopburi - Phitsanuloke - Ban Dara Junction (326 km)

This section will include the new Bridge across Nan river parallel with Paramin Bridge.

B) Ban Dan - Huay Rai (25 km) This section is begain to clibe the hill ....

C) Kaeng Luang - Pang Puay (45 km) . This section has a curve parallel with Yom river ... and it is the place that have frequent derails.

D) Lamphun - Chiang Mai (22 km) For commuter line between Chiagn Mai and Lamphun

1.2) Northeast lines

A) Map Krabao - Pak Chong (47 km) - for solvign troublesome section of Karn Khoi - Pak Chong and all cement trains to go through this difficult section.

B) Muang Phon - Ban Phai (31 km) - for Khon Kaen ICD
78 กิโลเมตร แบ่งเป็นช่วงสถานีมาบกะเบา-ปากช่อง
47 กิโลเมตร ช่วงสถานีเมืองพล-บ้านไผ่ 31 กิโลเมตร

1.3) Southern lines

A) Nakhon Pathom - Nong Pla Duk (16 km)
B) Phetburi - Hua Hin (64 km)
C) Prachuab Khirikhan - Chumporn (167 km)
D) Surat Thani - Ban Na (29 km)
E) Khao Chum Thong Junction - Cha Uad (27 km)
F) Laem Tanod - Ban Ton Don (the last station before Hat Yai)


1.4) Eastern Line
Chachoengsao Junction - Sri Racha - Laem Chabang (78 km)
Chachongsao - Klong 19 - Wiharn Daeng - Kaeng Khoi (106 km)
Chord line to form the Triangle at Chachoengsao, Kaeng Khoi and Ban Phachi (3 km)

2) Pak Bara Port - New Songkla Port (184 km)

3) Track rehab Phase 4-6
3.1) Phase 4:
Phisanuloke - Ban Dan (110 km)

Bangsue - Talingchan - Ban Chimplee (18 km) includign the reinforcement of Rama 6 bridge anbd the bridge across Bangkok Noy canal

Thung Song - Ban Ton Done (99 km) .. to solve the proible at Khao Chong - the place where 24 Class Loco that carried steel bars on 20 BCFs with continaers DERAILED

3.2) Phase 5: Kaeng Khoi - Kaeng Suea Ten (37 km), Suranarai - Bua Yai (192 km)

Phase 5 is for Kaneg Khoi - Bua Yai section
to function as byapss routes for cargo trains

3.3) Phase 6: Bua Yai - Nong khai (278 km)
Phase 6 is for the Mekhong

[The Enforcer!]

Isn't politics fun?

The Enforcer!

[jpatokal]

Isn't politics fun?
No. :mad: :mad:

[The Enforcer!]

No. :mad: :mad:
Spoil sport!

Come on my political party in the UK has just elected a leader that will be too old to contest the next General Election let alone lead a government were we to win!

That has go to be funny?

The Enforcer!

[White Nancy]

No. :mad: :mad:

Not only is it not fun, it's a pain in the ar5e for those of us waiting to get on a plane to BKK to do some work and trying to run a home life and several other projects all at the same time!

"Pack your bags, unpack your bags, go to Bangkok, no, make that London, Thailand may be next week!":mad:

A fed up Falang.

[The Enforcer!]

I see from Bangkok Post yesterday that he Mass Transit Workng Group are recommending 7 lines costing 430 BillionBaht to Cabinet next week.

Another variation on the theme it seems.

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

I see from Bangkok Post yesterday that the Mass Transit Workng Group are recommending 7 lines costing 430 Billion Baht to Cabinet next week.

Another variation on the theme it seems.

The Enforcer!
Oh dear, the posters are now saying ... 10 lines of skytrain--300 kms. It will start at the end of this year.

Yet another variation?

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

Beware the Ides of March!:rolleyes:

[otherstuff1957]

Oh dear, the posters are now saying ... 10 lines of skytrain--300 kms. It will start at the end of this year.

Yet another variation?

The Enforcer!

I doubt if this is a new official policy. They're probably just saving money by recycling posters from the last election.:cool:

[The Enforcer!]

Beware the Ides of March!:rolleyes:
Isn't that tommorrow?

Goodbye Taksin?

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

I waiting for the poster that says 300 lines - 10kms! ;) Still hopeful whatever the outcome of the next few months that work on at least a couple of lines will start before the end of the year even with the tender dates put back. Don't ask me to put money on it though...

[The Enforcer!]

I think we can safely say that the 1.7 Trillion baht plan is dead.

RIP

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Enforcer,

Whilst I may have to now agree with your earlier prediction that not one bit of construction for the new lines would begin this year (whereas I was hopeful that construction would at least begin on two lines) and it may be true that the whole '1.7 trillion baht mega-project' program will be scaled down. as it should have been, I don't know that that necessarily means that the all the mass transit plans are completely dead.

Whatever the political process from here on, and for how ever long there will be reluctance to make project committments, I think at least the mass transit plans are in the Bangkokorians minds and the next stable govt will have to make a commitment to build a mass transit network.

MEGA-PROJECTS
Financing obstacles cloud deals Modernisation plan raises more doubts 7 April 06

Finance Ministry officials are concerned about investment returns and financing of the mass transit, transport and other mega-projects proposed under the Modernisation of Thailand scheme by the Thaksin government.
Their concern is based on the fact that the bidding terms of reference for several projects are in the hands of other ministries. For example, the mass-transit investment is being screened by the Transport Ministry while the Finance Ministry, which is in charge of the government's budget, is shut out.


Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra earlier invited foreign investors to bid for the mass-transit projects in Bangkok and the transport and water resource developments around the country. The projects have been delayed due to the political turmoil. Although he has announced his intention to step down from the premiership in the new government, Thaksin promised to push forward the mega-project investment plan, worth Bt1.8 trillion between 2005 and 2009. The cost of the mass-transit projects is estimated to be Bt423 billion for the originally planned seven rail routes, the transport project Bt346 billion, and the water resources project Bt203 billion.

The two key conditions of international bidding for the work are that it must not create public debt and must not involve concessions. Bidders have been invited to propose any investment structure or financing plan. "It is apparently the right model, but nobody knows whether it will be cost-effective or will generate adequate returns," said a Finance Ministry official. If any of the projects fail, taxpayers will ultimately be forced to foot the bill.
Before Thaksin launched the Modernisation of Thailand scheme and invited foreign investment, the Public Debt Management Office proposed a plan of indirect investment in the mega-projects by the government in the first phase, due to its capacity to borrow funds at lower cost.


Thailand Development Research Institute research director Somchai Jitsuchon predicted that the mega-projects would be further delayed because the new government will have only one year in office and will be preoccupied with political reform. Moreover, pressure from public demands for more transparency will also affect the planned investments. During the recent anti-Thaksin protests, a large group of engineers joined the People's Alliance for Democracy campaign. They accused the prime minister of favouring foreign investors at the expense of local construction companies and engineers. They also charge that the Thaksin model leaves big loopholes for possible corruption.


If the momentum of the campaign against the government continues, Somchai said, the new government would come under pressure and may have to review the mega-projects. He would agree with such a review if it aimed to ensure wise investment. In its stock report on Wednesday, Asset Plus Securities said that although the new government is expected to proceed with the mega- projects, it expected further delays due to financing prospects. "There remains opposition to the procedure for carrying out the projects, particularly the mass-transit projects. While the government pursues a comprehensive investment, several agencies, such as the National Economic and Social Development Board, have suggested that the investment should be carried out according to the availability of central budgets."


Meanwhile, the Finance Ministry predicts that public debt, as a percentage of gross domestic product, will drop to 34.6 per cent in 2009 from about 45 per cent currently. It said that, as the public-debt-to-GDP figure is lower than the upper-limit target of 50 per cent, this left more room for government borrowing to finance the mega-projects. Officials do not think the revoking of Egat Plc's privatisation will have much impact on public debt, if Egat has to borrow to finance its investments instead of raising funds from floating shares on the stock market. Egat plans to invest Bt200 billion over next five years in various projects and, according to one official, this is "small money".

Wichit Chaitrong The Nation

----------------------------------

Commuters surveyed 7 April 06

Now that the political stalemate has ended, at least for the moment, hopes are high that major economic policies will resume - particularly the long-awaited Bt550-billion mass-transit development projects. Still, Bangkok residents should not expect to see all 10 rail routes take shape at once, for a recent survey suggested otherwise.

The Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning Office recently produced 500,000 questionnaires, asking residents which five routes they wish to have first. The questionnaires are being handed out this week to commuters using the subway, BTS Skytrain and Bangkok buses. Included are questions on travellers' usual mode of transport and their opinions on appropriate subway fares. A source at the office said it expected about 10 per cent of the questionnaires to be completed and returned - some 50,000 sets. "Then their opinions will be stored and become the statistics that officials will take into account when they are making any policy decisions," the source said.

Under the supervision of caretaker Transport Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal, the subway network is to be expanded from the previously planned seven routes to a total of 10, with investment also raised from Bt423 billion to Bt550 billion. According to a source at the Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning Office, the office has not yet prioritised which routes will be built first, which is why public opinion is being sought. "We are trying to accumulate all the pros and cons to support the government when it comes to make the decision," he said.

Many parties expect further delay in the mass-transit investment projects. DBS Research Group said in a research paper last Friday that other mega-projects could take shape, but not mass-transit development, which should anticipate further delays.

Watcharapong Thongrung, The Nation

[The Enforcer!]

Whilst I may have to now agree with your earlier prediction that not one bit of construction for the new lines would begin this year
But sadly for the wrong reasons.

I think at least the mass transit plans are in the Bangkokorians minds and the next stable govt will have to make a commitment to build a mass transit network.[/B]
I sincerely hope that you are correct.

The Enforcer!

[otherstuff1957]

So, what effect will the recent election have on the mass-transit lines? Will the TRT delay them indefinitly to punish the large number of NO votes? Or will they push forward with them to try to woo the NO voters back?

[The Enforcer!]

With the local government corruption in the BMA, and the election probelms of the National Assembly, is there any Mass Transit actually currently under construction OTHER than the Airport link?

The Enforcer!

[GWR]

;) Oh those poor Thai Ruk Thai MPs who can no longer afford to pay back the loans they were granted on special terms in both Thaksin administrations. Apparently, Krung Thai Bank has taken the decidedly unsporting measure of reminding them that they have to pay up.

We can only hope they don't end up HATING their fellow Thais fror temporarily suspending the Gravy Train.

[The Enforcer!]

;) Oh those poor Thai Ruk Thai MPs who can no longer afford to pay back the loans they were granted on special terms in both Thaksin administrations. Apparently, Krung Thai Bank has taken the decidedly unsporting measure of reminding them that they have to pay up.

We can only hope they don't end up HATING their fellow Thais fror temporarily suspending the Gravy Train.
Thai Ruk Thai? Is that the same as Thai Kammoy Thai?

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

I gather from our illustrious English press that all Mega-projects are now 100% cancelled.

The Enforcer!

[The Enforcer!]

I gather from our illustrious English press that all Mega-projects are now 100% cancelled.

The Enforcer!
They appear to have changed tack: From The Nation ....

The Transport Ministry will today seek Cabinet approval to call for bidding for three mass-transit lines next month, in order to inject some much-needed cash into the decelerating economy, according to ministers.


The government's decision to take the dust-covers off the mega-projects has come amid anticipation of a fresh general election later this year.


The Thai Rak Thai Party's popularity among Bangkok voters has been declining, because of its failure to implement any of the mass-transit lines it had earlier promised.


Thai Rak Thai has also lost points among voters who believe the government's recent attempt to block the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's plan to extend the BTS Skytrain lines was politically motivated.


Caretaker Transport Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal said yesterday the proposal to call for bidding emerged from a joint meeting last week of the Finance Ministry, the Budget Bureau Office, the National Economic and Social Development Board and his ministry.


The agencies agreed the government needed to inject money into the economy and should therefore speed up construction of one or two mass-transit lines this year.


"We need to inject money into the system, not cut off the flow of money," said Pongsak.


"The Transport Ministry has a clear objective of starting with one or two or three lines first, because it's impossible to do all of them at once," he said. The Cabinet is scheduled to decide at today's meeting on which lines it will start calling for bids. It hopes to call for bidding next month, or by mid-July at the latest.


Pongsak said the probable first three lines were the Red Line, connecting Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports to Chiang Rak; the Blue Line, which is an outer ring road to Bang Khae; and the Purple Line, which will connect Bang Sue to Bang Yai.



Wonderful - very clear tactic ready for the October election but absolutely NO COMMITMENT to building the network!

The Enforcer!

[Yappofloyd]

The on again, off again, on again, delayed, uncertain , but perhaps, not sure, definately not, well maybe yes.....ongoing saga relating to the mass transit plans is starting to emulate confusing and contadictary policy annoucements more in the mould of the North Korean govt. or perhaps the Burmese Junta.

For all the supposed leadership of the TRT in past years the meag-project policies, and especially the mass transit plans, really do highlight the populist, short term and idiosyncractic nature of the parties policy platforms. We all know this is TRTs response to Democrat led BMA moves on the Skytrain front in a cycnical attempt to get back some of the lpublic imelight on transit in Bangkok, it will undoubtedly be followed by annoucements in the coming weeks that nothing can be progressed during the caretaker period.

Here is the article post by Khun Enforcer in full...

MASS-TRANSIT SYSTEM Govt dusts off mega-projects The Nation 23/05/06

Transport Ministry says rail investment can be used to inject new life into economy The Transport Ministry will today seek Cabinet approval to call for bidding for three mass-transit lines next month, in order to inject some much-needed cash into the decelerating economy, according to ministers. The government's decision to take the dust-covers off the mega-projects has come amid anticipation of a fresh general election later this year. The Thai Rak Thai Party's popularity among Bangkok voters has been declining, because of its failure to implement any of the mass-transit lines it had earlier promised.

Thai Rak Thai has also lost points among voters who believe the government's recent attempt to block the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's plan to extend the BTS Skytrain lines was politically motivated. Caretaker Transport Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal said yesterday the proposal to call for bidding emerged from a joint meeting last week of the Finance Ministry, the Budget Bureau Office, the National Economic and Social Development Board and his ministry.

The agencies agreed the government needed to inject money into the economy and should therefore speed up construction of one or two mass-transit lines this year. "We need to inject money into the system, not cut off the flow of money," said Pongsak. "The Transport Ministry has a clear objective of starting with one or two or three lines first, because it's impossible to do all of them at once," he said. The Cabinet is scheduled to decide at today's meeting on which lines it will start calling for bids. It hopes to call for bidding next month, or by mid-July at the latest.

Pongsak said the probable first three lines were the Red Line, connecting Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports to Chiang Rak; the Blue Line, which is an outer ring road to Bang Khae; and the Purple Line, which will connect Bang Sue to Bang Yai. "These three lines are ready for implementation," he said. Pongsak said that apart from the three mass-transit lines, the Cabinet would also be asked to approve the purchase of 2,000 natural-gas buses for the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority, in order to save on fuel imports.

Caretaker Deputy Finance Minister Varathep Ratanakorn said the government planned to inject an initial budget of Bt40 billion to Bt50 billion to support the implementation of mega-projects this year, in a bid to stimulate economic activity and growth. "Once the Cabinet approves the proposal, agencies involved in the mega-projects will be urged to seek disbursement of funds from the Budget Bureau, in order to implement them quickly," he told reporters. Asked if the caretaker government had the power to approve the mega-projects, Varathep said the projects in question were different from those under the government's modernisation programme, which would need to be approved by the new administration.

He conceded that a delay in forming the new government until next year's first quarter could affect the planned budget for fiscal 2007, which begins in October. However, he said only planned state investment projects would be affected by such a delay, while fixed expenditures - such as government officials' salaries - could be disbursed normally.Assigned to do so by caretaker Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Somkid Jatusripitak, caretaker Finance Minister Thanong Bidaya had called a special meeting of agencies for today to discuss budget-related problems and solutions, said Varathep.

Meanwhile, caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday returned to work after his month-long break from politics that was meant to ease political tensions."But now the social, economic and political problems have severely affected people to the point where Thaksin can't leave it to caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Vanasatidya to make decisions on his behalf," said Government Spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee.

[The Enforcer!]

I see today that three lines have exited the Mega-Projects brief so that the MoT can 'start' them.... Purple North, Blue Ring & Spur, Red from Phayathai to Chiang rak.

The 'start' will, of course cease once the October held has been held.

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Probably they have to start the least trouble line and the most popular routes ... the Red line ... even though it requires compromises with Royal Household/and the Lord at Klai Kangwon Palace since it MUST pass Chitladda Royal Station.

Next in the lien is the Blue Ring to please the Great leader and thsoe who live in Thonburi ... before Governor Aphirak managing to finish Taksin extension phase 2 at Bang Wah ....

[Yappofloyd]

Of course it is political, opportunistic and designed to undermine BMA intiatives. It is inappropiate in a caretaker government mode, especially given the anullment of the election results, even if the original dates for submitting tenders was delayed from end of April to end of May before the election was called. And of course it is typical of what has occured over the last 2 years with sudden out of the blue annoucements. I must confess that I am almost relieved that at least mass transit is back on the political agenda.....even if for the wrong reasons.

As Khun Wisarut says these are the most politically popular for TRT. However, I would think that BMA Taksin ext will be finished well before Blue line is completed. If it actually gets the go ahead...

CABINET MOVES Row over go-ahead for rail lines The Nation 24/05/06
Academics say the sudden rush to kick-start three lines is political and illegal

A constitutional expert and academic yesterday slammed the caretaker Cabinet's plan to call bids for three mass-transit lines, saying it did not have the legitimacy to approve big-budget projects. Kanin Boonsuwan, an expert on the Constitution, called the plan to proceed with the three mass-transit lines "illegal", because the caretaker government was not entitled to approve investments that require budget-binding obligations. "It runs against the Constitution's intention to have the budget approval screened by the democratic process," he said. "The Constitution makes it clear that the caretaker government should not approve projects that would bind fiscal spending for several years to come," Kanin said, "because we don't have the House to debate the merit of the projects."

Caretaker Premier Thaksin Shinawatra chaired the Cabinet's weekly meeting for the first time since stepping aside six weeks ago. Caretaker Transport Minister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal, said after the Cabinet had resolved to withdraw the three mass transit lines and the purchase of 2,000 natural-gas buses for the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority from the "mega-project" scheme, and make them projects needing "urgent execution". This would pave the way for the caretaker government to proceed with their implementation while other mega-projects would be up to the new government to decide. "With the problem of rising oil prices, if we let these three projects be suspended until the new government, our economy will face serious problems. Therefore, we need to accelerate the execution of projects that already have a source of funding," Pongsak said.

The Transport Ministry would submit the details to Cabinet next week. Pongsak said it planned for international bids for the projects. The three lines are Red, a connecting airport link to Don Muang and Chiang Rak; Blue, an outer ring line to Bang Khae; and Purple, which will connect Bang Sue to Bang Yai. The Cabinet's decision was made before Bangkok administrators are due to approve extensions of the Skytrain lines, today. Sompop Manarungsan, an economics lecturer at Chulalongkorn University, said the timing was not right for the caretaker government to start the three mass-transit lines. "The problem of government legitimacy would increase the costs. Investors would be reluctant to invest due to the continuing uncertainty," he said.

If bids were opened now, investors could ask for a higher rate of return from the government to compensate for future political risks, since the projects would be long-term investments, Sompop said. He felt the caretaker government was aiming to boost its popularity. "The caretaker government should wait another few months until the new government is formed, he said. "If the projects start now it would not benefit the economy as expected due to conflicts that may arise from the absence of government legitimacy."
He questioned why the Cabinet had to rush approval of the projects now, when it should have executed them years ago when interest rates were still low. "The caretaker government will face difficulty in both political and financial management during high political uncertainty and high interest rates - if they go ahead with the projects now."

Korn Chatikavanij, a deputy Democrat Party leader, questioned the Cabinet's move. "I think it's politically motivated. The government has failed to explain why they picked the three routes out of the 10 routes planned, nor the source of funding for the projects that require budget obligations for several years," he said. Korn said if the government was serious about mass transport, it should support the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's plan to extend the three BTS Skytrain routes. "I think the decision to go ahead with the three lines only aims to score political points," he said.

Jeerawat Na Thalang, Wichit Chaitrong The Nation

Thaksin accelerates spending ahead of poll Governors to bypass e-auction contracting POST REPORTERS BKK Post 24/05/06 Note: extracts only

Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra returned to work after 45 days off yesterday and immediately revoked the cabinet resolution announcing he was taking leave until the next government was formed. His next action was to accelerate government funding ahead of the general election for grassroots projects and expanding the commuter railway network in Bangkok.
Government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee said revoking the cabinet resolution enabled Mr Thaksin to officially return to work.

''The prime minister told the meeting to speed up economy-related actions because the current economic situation is similar to back in 2001 when the Thai Rak Thai government took office,'' Mr Surapong said. ''Then people had neither confidence in the economy nor money to spend. But in 2006 people have savings, but are reluctant to spend because they lack confidence.''
budget for fiscal year 2006.

In greater Bangkok, the cabinet has decided to permit the Transport Ministry to remove three electric railway expansion projects from the government's megaproject package so they could be immediately implemented. The three projects are the Red Line from Phaya Thai north via Don Muang to Chiang Rak, the Blue Line comprising a loop and a branch to reach Bang Khae, and the Purple Line from Bang Sue to Bang Yai. Transport Minister Pongsak Raktapongpaisal said his ministry, through the Mass Rapid Transit Authority, had six billion baht to spend this fiscal year.

Ampon Kitti-ampon, secretary-general of the National Economic and Social Development Board, said the spending speed-up was aimed at assuring investors that the government was implementing its projects as planned and injecting money into the national economy

[Wisarut]

Well More details can be described as follows for Ai Pheng's Plan

Pheng Speeding up 3 Mass transit lines
Prachachart Thurakij - May 25-28, 2006

Caretake Minister Pheng decied to speed up 3 mass trnasit project by REMOVING the followign mass transit lines out of Megaproject list so the governmnet can call a bidding for turnkey project which can be signed in the next 30-60 days:

1) Airport Link (Transit version)
(Suvannabhum-Makkasan - Phyathai-Bangsue-Donmuang-Rangsit-Chiang Rak)

Even though the initial phase (Up to Rangsit) has the estimated budget of 77 billion Baht, the final section (Rangsit - Chaing Rak) need further calculation, with the estimation of 100 billion Baht for total budget ...

2) Blue Ring - consisting of
2.1) Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae, 49 billion Baht
2.2) Bangsue - Tha Phra, 46 billion Baht

3) the Controversial purple line, 24 billion Baht

[The Enforcer!]

need further calculation
I think the whole thing is one calculation ....

Can we con the public to vote for us in October?

There is no desire to actually build these lines - witness the past 5 years.

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Well, I know too well that the crony of Thaiksin own the golf club and Bangkok University near Chaing Rak station. Therefore, it is their interest to raise the land price to be sold to the government askign for extension from Rangsit to Chiang Rak (the station between Thammasart Unbviersity - Rangist campus, and Bangkok University - Rangsit Campus) :rolleyes:

[Wisarut]

It seems to me that the feeder aircon bus (12 Baht) for MRTA subway is a failture, so BMTA has come up with feeder non aircon bus whcih cost the passenger ONLY 7 Baht.

On the otehr hand, the feeder vans is quite a success due to the guarantee of seat avaialble ... so BMTA decides to add more van lines to feed subway ...

[The Enforcer!]

I see today that three lines have exited the Mega-Projects brief so that the MoT can 'start' them.... Purple North, Blue Ring & Spur, Red from Phayathai to Chiang rak.

The 'start' will, of course cease once the October held has been held.

The Enforcer!
Now I am confused ... today's Nation says that "The Cabinet yesterday endorsed the construction of three subway lines that are part of the proposed mass-transit mega-project for Bangkok. It said the dark red, light red and purple lines would go ahead."

Light Red instead of Blue?

The Enforcer!

[ncr]

Now I am confused ... today's Nation says that "The Cabinet yesterday endorsed the construction of three subway lines that are part of the proposed mass-transit mega-project for Bangkok. It said the dark red, light red and purple lines would go ahead." Light Red instead of Blue?And of course, the red lines are no subways. (The Purple Line from Bang Sue to Bang Yai is elevated as well, though part of the subway system).

But I don't believe any announcement about mass transit lines anymore, anyway. :mad:

[Wisarut]

The 30-day Pass for SUbway Issued
Dailynews - June 30, 2006

MRTA/BMCL is goign to introduce 30-day pass with a price of 700 Baht to encourage more regular customer to ride subway ....

Note: It would be a lot better if BMCL/BTSC could come up with 30-day pass... but BTS has to install hte smart card system alogn with the joitn ticket system for this matter. :(

[The Enforcer!]

I see that now the tendering is postponed until after a new Government is formed.

Late 2007?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Details for Each lines of 3 Approved mass transits:
Khaosod - August 2, 2006
Matichon - August 2, 2006
Prachachart Thurakij - August 2-5, 2006

Moh Liab (Government Speaker) told the press that the cabinate has approved the budget for 3 mass transit lines with the followign specifications:

1) All 3 liens will be constructed through Design and Build process, NOT turnkey.

2) International Bidding will be applied for the contractors

3) MRTA got the budget allocation for the construction of Both purple line and Blue Ring of 103.306 billion Baht
3.1) Bangsue - Tha Phra 21.668 Billion Baht (Blue Ring)
3.2) Hua lamphong - Bang Khae 40.678 billion Baht (Blue Ring)
3.3) Bangsue - Bang Yai 40.790 billion Baht (purple Line)


4) SRT got the budget allocation for the constuction of 32-km Airport Link Extension (Rangsit - Donmuang - Bangsue - Phyathai) of 42.300 billion Baht

5) The cost for land exappropriation & consultant fees for MRTA subway will be allocated as follows:
5.1) Purple line (Bangsue - Bang Yai): 4.177 billion Baht for land exappopriation and 1.632 billion Baht for consultant fee.
5.2) Southern section of Blue Ring (Hua Lamphong - Tha Phra - Bang Khae): 7.597 billion Baht for land exappopriation and 1.627 billion Baht for consultant fee.

5.3) Northern section of Blue Ring (Bangsue - Charansanitwongse - Tha Phra): 2.566 billion Baht for land exappopriation and 0.867 billion Baht for consultant fee.

No need for land exappropriation on Airport Link extension since it is on SRT land alogn Northern and Eastern railway

6)JBIC Loan will cover 40% of total budget (40-year Maturity with 0.75% annual rate - very barganing in ANY sense).

7) The other 60% will be loan from domestic Banks and Bonds purchased by Pension funds, Social Security Funds, Insurant firms, or local financial institutes to prevent FOREX fluctuation.

Government also considered underground section for Bangsue - Charansanitwongse- Tha Phra to PLEASE voters from Tao Poon. Howeer, they have to take the problems of cost overrun into accounts - which has an early estiomation of 65 Billion Baht AGAINST the elevated track fo 21.6 billion Baht



The insiders said ONLY the big guns like ITD, STECON or CKC will get contract deals since all 3 have connections with Japanese contractors .. The smallers one with NO Japanese connection will NEVER be able to compete with the big 3 since it is RULE for JBIC loan that Thai contractor should get Japanese parnerts to deal with this job.

[The Enforcer!]

Does anyone actually think we will get any ground dug in 2007 or is this the same as the three previous General Elections - just 'political' promises?

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

MRTA Pushigjn Purple Lien Forward Despite of Difficulties to Settle with Landowner
Prachachart Thurakij - August 28-30, 2006

MRTA has hired CB Co.Ltd .to make the new land assessmebntment before exapopriatign the land for Purple line

There will be 16 stations on 23-km of Purple line with price tag of 40.790 billion Baht

1) Tao poon (Interchange for Blue Rign and Purple Line on Tao poon Intersection -
which people have despited - They prefer interchange at Bangsue Instead even thouyh they want Tao poon station)


2) Bang Son (intechange with Southern Trains even thogh tere are so few trains stop here)

3) Wongsawang (Between Krungthep - Nonthaburi 52-56)

4) Tiwanone (Between Krung Thep - Nonthaburi 12-14, near Tiwanone Intersection)

5) Ministry of Public Health (Between Tiwanone 3 and Ministry of Public Health)

6) Nonthaburi (Between Nonthaburi District Hall and Thaicom Office)

7) Sri Pronsawan (Between Rattanathibet 22 and Nonthaburi Bypass road, Carrefour Nonthaburi
and Riochmond Hotel)

8) Nonthaburi1 (Rattanathibet road and anotehr Nonthaburi Bypass road -)
9) phra Nanklao Brudige (The first station in Bangyai side of Nonthaburi)
10) Sai Mah (at the gate of Sue Trong village)
11) Tha It (near Intersection with rachapruek road)
12) Bangrak yai (Near Wongchai village and Pip Inn Hotel)
13) Bang Ploo (Near Blang Ploo Intersection)
14) Bang Yai Intersection (near Kritsadanakhon project 10 village)
15) Bang Yai Market (near Kasemraj hospital, and Big C bang Yai)
16) Bang Phai canal - end of the line

Note; Those who live in Bang Buathong have filed BITTER compalined that they want More extension to Bang Buathogn Intersection (about 5-6 km from bang Yai Intersection)

[Wisarut]

BMCL is goign to offer IPO to clear the debt
Prachachart Thurakij - August 28-30, 2006

BMCL is going to offer 2.755 billion Stocks as an IPO at the stock exchange for the follwoign things

1) Purchasing 5 new set of rollign stocks
2) clearing the debt
3) increasing the Circulating cash

Revenue of BMCL for the first half of Year 2006 is now 700 million Baht, compared with 400 million Baht on the first half of Year 2005. Thsi increasign of revenu is due to the new housings along Subway line

So far, ther are 250000 passenger a day for Subway, increasing by 10,000-20,000 paassengers from the last year ... Howver, the break event will coem only after passing 300,000 passenger a day threshold.

95% of revenue is from tickets while the other 5% come from Metro Mal and advertising ....

Metro Masll will have 2 neqw branches at either places

1) Chatuchak - Thailand Cultural center
2) Chatuchak - Phetburi

[Wisarut]

MASS-TRANSIT PLANS
Only one line at a time, says Pridiyathorn
by Anoma Srisukkasem
The Nation Ocotber 8, 2006


Of the 10 proposed Bangkok rail routes, only the Blue Line (Blue Ring) may get go-ahead


MR Pridiyathorn Devakula, who is to be named deputy premier and finance minister in the Surayud government, said yesterday that the interim administration would probably implement only one of the 10 proposed rail mass-transit lines during its one-year tenure.


Speaking after a seminar entitled "Thailand's Investment Atmosphere in 2007", he said the government would probably pick the 27-kilometre circular Blue Line, running from Bang Sue to Hua Lamphong and Bang Khae, because it was the most important.


The investment cost is estimated to be around Bt60 billion, with 22km of the line being an elevated rail system and the remaining 5km underground (across rattanakosin Island).

MR Pridiyathorn said the rest of the proposed mass-transit lines could be implemented when the government had more resources.


Former premier Thaksin Shinawatra earlier announced his Thai Rak Thai Party would invest in a total of 10 lines worth in excess of Bt500 billion to relieve traffic congestion in Bangkok. Besides the finance portfolio, Pridiyathorn, the outgoing governor of the Bank of Thailand, is also expected to oversee the Transport Ministry, which is responsible for implementing mass-transit schemes.


Pridiyathorn said the Surayud government would also implement the water-resource management project initiated by the previous government so as to increase the competitiveness of the Thai agricultural sector.


Kosit Panpiemras, executive chairman of Bangkok Bank, will be named deputy premier overseeing the agriculture and industry ministries, according to sources close to the prime minister.


Meanwhile, Pridiyathorn, who has been the central bank's chief for the last four years, said the new government would do its best to restore investor confidence.


The government will be more transparent, he said, and would eliminate anything deemed to be a double standard.


He was confident there


would be greater integrity be-cause the new Cabinet would


not have any big businessmen as members and as a result the government would be unbiased in restructuring the economy and in facilitating private-sector business.


Businessmen should be happier because they will not have to be pro-government in order to be successful, as in the past five or six years, he said.


Politically, he said, the check-and-balance mechanisms and independent organisations will be able to function better under the new government, so there will be greater fairness in society. "When there are no more double standards in our society, conflicts, polarisation and discomfort will disappear," he said.


According to Pridiyathorn, the country will be heading towards a better future next year because a new constitution will be drafted and there will be a general election.


Quoting academic Seksan Prasertkul's definition of a functioning democracy, he said there must be three major elements: free and fair elections, freedom to express opinion, and public participation in politics. He said he was not sure if the interim government would allow all the three elements simultaneously or phase them in one by one.


The last general election, he said, was clearly biased because the previous Election Commission took sides.


"As a result, we had only half a democracy. A general election should be free and fair," he said. In addition, he said, freedom of expression had been curtailed for some years, so that for instance many civil servants were afraid that they would be penalised if they spoke out against the ruling politicians.


He said it would be good if the country returned to a fully democratic system soon.

[Yappofloyd]

^ only the Blue Line to be built!?

SRT spokesperson said just over a week ago that they were still going ahead with the Red Line(s) but that there would be delays in the tender to later in the year so work would not commence until later next year.

One lione at a time will mean a 10 line netwrok being built over the next 40 years but given the last 20 odd years of proposals, changes, inaction and confusion perhaps such a time line will be prophetic.

Who knows what will happen as the plans have changed at least 638 times this year alone......I'll wait to see that hard steel rail fastened before I get excited about a new line being built.

[Wisarut]

Wait until SRT chas convinced Mom Aui abotu the Importance fo Red Line commuter (includign Airport Link) and you'll see if Red lien commuter (AKA the extension of Airprot Link0 will be included in the scheme of Mom Aui :D

However, SRT has to convince Royal palace about the design fo the track and station that do NO harm to Chitladda Royal Station ... otherwise, SRT would get into Heaven Forbid situation

[Wisarut]

BMCL Negotiating with Siemens for 5 New Set of Subway Rollign stock
Matichon - October 9, 2006

After offerign IPO, BMCL has cash for purchasign 5 new set of rollign stocks. SO, BMCL is gogin to negotiate wiht SIemens AG on this matter.

Siemens AG said it is working on the assembly of Subway rollign stocks for Taipei Metro and Siemens is gogin to use the same types of rollings stock supplied to Tai[pei Metro for BKK Blue Line Subway - with soem modification to fit with the condition of SUbway tunnels in BKK.

Siemens AG said that Subway rollign stocks for Taipei Metro (and for BKK Subway0 are fo the new generation ... at more affordable prices ....

[jpatokal]

Why does BMCL need more rolling stock -- I thought even the current ones were running half-empty? :confused:

[Wisarut]

1) 5 New Sets are to replace 2 Severely Damage Sets ...

2) 5 New sets are for the future expansion

[The Enforcer!]

The cabinet today approved a master plan to construct five new mass transit lines in Bangkok, one underground and four Skytrain-type lines.

Ministers instructed the Ministry of Transport to draft a detailed plan for the project, which calls for extending five rail lines in the capital -- known as purple, red, blue, light green and dark green.

The Purple line, which is to run from Bang Yai to Bang Sue, and the Red line from Rangsit to Makkasan via Bang Sue will come first.

Later, construction will take place on the Blue line from Hua Lamphong to Tha Phra and Bang Sue to Bang Khae, the Light Green line from National Stadium to Prannok, and from On Nut to Samut Prakan, and the Dark Green line from Mor Chit to Saphan Mai, and from Taksin to Bangwa.

It will be up to Transport Ministry to decide whether it will hold a bidding contest for the construction of all five routes, or one route at a time.

It is expected that the first bid for the rail construction will be held by early next year.

According to acting Mass Rapid Transit Authority of Thailand (MRTA) governor Yiamchai Chatkaew, the Blue line will be the underground subway line while others will be those of skytrain.

Well I never!!

The Enforcer!

[Wisarut]

Gen Surayut and Cabinate Approving "Self-Sufficient mass Transit" - Getting 5 Lines at the price of 3 lines
Thairath - Nov 7, 2006

Gen. Surayut and cabinate had approved 5 mass transit line at the price of 3 lines ... the construction will be started in early Jna 2007 ... after 2 month public hearings

Mr. Yiamchai Chatkaew said 5 lines whcih are supposted to be started in 2007 and done in 2012 are

1) Rangsit - Bangsue - Talingchan (Red lien commuter) 41 km 53.985 billion Baht
2) Bangsue - Bang Yai (Purple line) 23 km 29.16 billion Baht
3) Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae, Bangsue - Tha Phra (Blue Ring) 27 km 53.985 billion Baht
4) Onnut - Bearing - Naval Academy - Samut Prakarn (BTS Bang na -& Paknam extension) 14 km 14.939 billion Baht
5) Mochit - Saphan Mai (BTS Phaholyothin extension) 13 km 14.737 billion Baht


total 118 km and 165.402 billion Baht - same amount of the 3 mass transit line of Thaksin

ONLY blue line will be design and build while the rest will be detailed design before bidding for contractor .


All project will be ready for bidding by April 2007

[ncr]

Gen Surayut and Cabinate Approving "Self-Sufficient mass Transit" - Getting 5 Lines at the price of 3 linesInteresting headline.....

And how they plan to achieve that? Use buffalo carts instead of electric trains ("self-sufficient")? Or is that the amount you arrive at once you deduct all the kickbacks? :confused:

[The Enforcer!]

Rangsit - Bangsue - Talingchan
Weird, Thai Rath and Bangkok Post say this but The Nation says Rangsit-Bangsue-Makkasan.

The Enforcer!

[jpatokal]

And how they plan to achieve that? Use buffalo carts instead of electric trains ("self-sufficient")? Or is that the amount you arrive at once you deduct all the kickbacks? :confused:
Perhaps they'll be importing some technology from one of Thailand's neighbors:

http://www.goworldtravel.com/ex/aspx/articleGuid.1A58B178-F389-4105-8ECC-2BB8B2C8F567/xe/article.htm

[Maverick]

Interesting headline.....

And how they plan to achieve that? Use buffalo carts instead of electric trains ("self-sufficient")? Or is that the amount you arrive at once you deduct all the kickbacks? :confused:

There is no doubt how they can achieve.

The former government plan to invest on civil work and E&M work by their own budget. The concessionaire will be the operator of the system and also do maintenance job.
So, only 3 lines can be building up.

With this government plan, they only will invest on civil work and let the private sector like BMCL or BTSC to invest on the E&M work. So, this way they have enough budgets to build 5 lines.

BMCL and BTSC will get a better position to win the biding for concessionaire as 3 of 5 lines are the extension of the existing lines.

It will be the difficult job of the next government to negotiate with BTS and BMCL to reduce the ticket price.

[Nekochan]

It is very likely that Blue South (Hua Lampong - Bang Kae) will start first, followed by Purple North. A Jica team was in BKK just before the coup to review MRTA's study.

Blue Circumferential (Bang Sue - Tha Phra) will need to wait.

BMCL is in a good position to extend their service, considering the use of Huay Kwang Depot is the right of BMCL anyway. They bought 5 sets of train lately because they are short of it. (One was damaged) Today they operate their trains at 3 minutes (something) headway which is why the trains are jammed back during rush hour. They need more trains to accommodate demand.

The latest BMCL ridership is approximately 178,000 only after the fare hike. 250,000 seems to high for me....(I read MRTA's monthly report).

But do not expect they can start all lines. I do not think the interim government can do much about that. If they can last 1 year from now.

[The Enforcer!]

After Bangson does the Purple Line go directly to Bang Sue or does it follow the previous plan of linking with the Blue Line at Tao Pun first?

The Enforcer!