High-Speed Rail Plans

[admin]

<This is an imported thread from the previous 2B forum discussing the Southern High-Speed Train (http://www.2bangkok.com/2bangkok/MassTransit/mmnews01.shtml#17aa) >

Leng 6
07-31-2003 12:24 PM ET (US)

As Khun Wisarut mentioned before, SRT must be privatised first in order to get more capital to implement these projects. It's nice to know that Bangkok does have many plans to improve railways. Right now, SRT trains are pretty old and a bit scary. so they are not used by mid-income or higher people in Bangkok.

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Wisarut 5
07-29-2003 10:40 PM ET (US)

Hi Ijud,

Siemens has given SRT a model of DESIRO (the same type
of commuter trains used by KLIA Express). DESIRO is ideal for commuter lines (BKK-Lopburi, BKK-Kaeng Khoi Junction,
BKK-Nakhon Pathom, Thonburi-Nakhon Pathom, Wongwian Yai-Mahachai, BKK-Chachoengsao).

However, SRT must upgrade their tracks to Standard Gauge (1.4351 m) and use 60kg/m high resistant rails -> NOT those 40 and 50 kg/m types of steel rails currently used by SRT. The long concrete sleeper which can carry both Standard Gauge and Meter Gauge must be used as well!

Even though SRT has just finished double tracking the commuter lines, they are all standard gauge .... The new long sleepers whcih could cary both Srtandard and Meter guage must be used before laying the 3rd rail to carry the Standard gauge type.

To implement such a plan, The government must give investment package to the existing suppliers (e.g Italian Thai Development PCL or so) so that they will be able to upgrade their steel mills, blast furnaces, as well as the machines to produce concrete sleepers, tools and other relating materials to enable the companies to supply those necessary stuffs to SRT.

All the crossing sections must be solved to prevent delays during the rush hours.

********

Ijud 4
07-29-2003 11:52 AM ET (US)

Hi all,
I'm a frequent visitor of 2Bangkok website and I really admires it. Btw I'm from Kuala Lumpur. I noticed that the model of the train that the railway official hold on the pic(posted by Pas) looks like the KLIA Express isn't it Wisarut? I really looking forward to have joint high-speed rail between Malaysia and Thailand. Hope it will be a reality soon!

********

Wisarut 3
07-28-2003 11:19 PM ET (US)

Dear Everybody,

Such a project requires heavy investment and long-term commitment. The goverment must ask the domesitic suppliers for the steel rails for SRT to upgrade their blast furnaces as well as the steel mills to produce the high resistance steel for the 25-m rails of the 60kg/m type (the standard rails for Shinkansen) and the welded those 25-m steel rails togather into 4000-m rails before laying the tracks. The curent SRT standard of 50 kg/m type is NOT adequate for high speed rails at all!

Furthermore, it is necessary to install the 25 KV power lines and the transformers to tap the power from 69-230 KV lines to power the electric high speed railways ... require another major investment. Better sell SRT stock to EGAT to get the hands to deal with electrification.

Err, SRT MUST BE Privatized to get the cash to finance such ambitious projects. So far, those SRT unions are stansign on the ways ... Better put them into the hard labor to construct the
new routes ..... in place to being in prisons.

Well, SRT plan to expand the northern route from Denchai (in Phrae province) to Chiangrai after it has been stalled for mroe than 30 years. However, the conection to Kunming still an elusive goal.

Well, SRT must revive the rail link between Nongkhai to Viangchan via Friendship Bridge as soon as possible.

TOO bad, the double tracking for the Southern line (Had Yai - Padang Bersa) does not get the same priority as the BKK and vincinity case.

So far, SRT just finished double tracking the Eastern Railway from Hua mark to Chachonegsao Northern Railway from Rangsit to Ban Phachee and Soutehrn Railway Bangsue to Nakhon Pathom for commuter purposes ... The other lines still pending includign the double tracking of Mae Klong line.

Furthermore, SRT also asks the government to grant more budget to get the new 38 diesel locomotives before SRT are going to retire those aging GE and Alstorm Diesel-Electric Locomotive whcih have been used for more than 30 years -> and to meet the demanda for 132 locomotives which SRT cannot fulfill
since they have only 130 servicable diesel locomotives.

********

Leng 2
07-28-2003 09:36 AM ET (US)
I really want this high-speed train to become reality. It will sure boost tourism in the south and help ease the traffic.

********

Ben Williams 1
07-28-2003 07:16 AM ET (US)
I wonder if there's any connection between this project and the project to link Kunming (China) and Singapore by rail? I noticed that Malaysia is gearing up to either build a new line or upgrade the current lines, but haven't seen anything about Thailand's portion.

[jpatokal]

A high speed train to... Prachuab Khirikhan!? Where on earth is a private company (!) going to come up with 36 billion baht (almost 1 billion USD) to fund this? And I don't think Korea's KTX is the best model for this either -- it took them 20 years to complete the first section of the track, going 60% over budget to ~1.6 billion USD, and they've only completed half the 400-km track so far, with the rest coming online in 2010 if they manage to stick to the schedule.

Sure, I'd love to see the Bangkok-KL-Singapore high speed train envisioned in the article, but I don't think I'll see it in my own lifetime...

[Wisarut]

Khun jpatokal,

Those from Thoed Damri Co.Ltd. talk like a fart for me ...
As far as I concern, even Shinkansen shcih could speed up
to 350 km/hr has to limit their travel speed to 200-250 km/hr
due to the noise problems from current collection at the pantographs. Furthermore, I have NEVER heard any
locomotives whcih could pull bogeys of trains at speed 400 km/hr .... ONLY hihg sped EMUs and the Transrapid Meglev
could DO that.

[Nekochan]

I just read about Korat high speed train, both in 2bangkok and Manager on line. I found it very odd. I think it is not a good engineering practice to study one project as we always do in Thailand (TIT).

SRT should have a master plan for existing railway and the future high speed services which includes all possible high speed routes in Thailand and to our neighbours.

As far as I know, they don't!!

Remember NESDB's plan for high speed train to Chonburi? It was a flop!! What's about other services (nop!, they did not consider that!!)

A good master plan will tell you the priority of high speed routes (I think it is BKK-Nakhonsawan-Chiang Mai), phasing of the projects, etc.

I am afraid that they will consider only one project (build one to Korat or not) but regard possibilities for other routes (if it is so, it is not Korat high speed train study anymore!!)

Korat is an intermediate node (or hub) to Esan. It is more logical to plan high speed routes to Udon, Khon Khan and Ubon.

People may think about competition to the existing provincial buses, but I think it is misleading. High speed train is somewhat upper market ..... just like travelling by air. So the competition is from low budget airlines (I think). It is faster and cost less!!

It has nothing to do with Nakhon Nayok, either. If you have just 2 stops along one route, each stop must be highly populated area. It works in Japan!!

(Considering new Ban Na city is a pipe dream!!)

4 months's study is very short period of time to go for detail.

I am waiting for Mr. Wisarut to comment this.

[Wisarut]

Well, even most Thai railfans have cased SERIOUS doubt on such a project since this project is politically motivated .....

However, those Khorat people said too many people have died by automobile accident on Friendship Highway (section from Saraburi - Nakhon Ratchasima) ... during the Newyear, and Songkran .... Furthermore, the intercity bus between BKK and Khorat has to run around the clock - even non-seasonal period.
-> nearly reach the saturate level ...

Furthermore, the railway section from Kaeng Khoi - Pakchong was a big headache for SRT since the very first day the railway has reached Khorat ...... Even today, SRT has to temporarily cut down the cargo train into 2 halves when it reaches Khaeng Khoi before putting togather again when it reach Pakchong or vice versa ....

The route from Khaengkoi to Bua Yai via lum narai has eased some pressure .... allowing SRT to add more train to Khonkaen - Udornthani - Nongkhai ... However, the route to Ubonratchathanee is still a big problem though ....

// -----------------------------------------------------------

Khorat people also said that if those people in Isan region agree to push this high speed train foirward, they will be rewarded with the extension from Khorat to either Ubon or Nong Khai.

[Tower 43]

K. Wisarut,

"Even today, SRT has to temporarily cut down the cargo train into 2 halves when it reaches Khaeng Khoi before putting togather again when it reach Pakchong or vice versa ...."

That raises the question on why the SRT does not use more than one locomotive on heavy trains over the mountains especially between Khaeng Khoi and Pakchong.

I suppose the lack of dynamic brakes could be a limiting factor for controlling a 30 car train on the down grade? If that is the situation why has the SRT not considered purchasing a few locomotives for service with that equipment for heavy trains between Khaeng Khoi and Pakchong or Kharot. It would seem to me that the cement business alone would justify locomotives to be used only in cement service.

[Wisarut]

SRT Runs out servicable locos. Furthermore, Makkasan seems to run out the capacity to handle the major reparation .... and the decomissioned locos are too costly to revive ....

Buying a new one? Heavy-debt enterprise like SRT is unlikely to get the government budget unless they could explain the cabinate about the emergency sitiation ..... Loco for SRT must have light axle load (15 Tons axle load) with high power (at least 2400 HP of ALSTOM or 2500 HP for GEA) ... requiring customization to fit into the system.... more expesive than regular design ....

No ... not that Blue Tiger unless that section has been rehabilitated to accept 20 Ton axle load as Kaeng Khoi - Klong Sip Kao and Chachongsao - Sriracha - laemchabang ....

Heavy use on the steep track from Kaengkhoi to Pakchong cause so many wounds on the steel rails ...

[Yappofloyd]

Consultants competing for high speed train project - translated and summarized by Wisarut Bholsithi from Manager Daily, September 28, 2004
There are two consultants competing for the high speed train with the payment to consultants of 38 million baht. SRT will hire the consultant by the end of October 2004 and then they will take 4 months to study the high speed railway before submitting the plan to the government. Nakhon Ratchasima provincial hall has pushed this project so hard that they have come up with two committees to handle the feasibility. ....(con.t)Nakhon Ratchasima has set the first choice for the route:
Makkasan - Banna (New City) - Pakchong (Phoom Muang Isan) - Nakhon Ratchasima with total distance of 223 km and the travel time of 56 minutes. This will fit into the government strategy as well as helping Thai-foreign travelers, businessmen, bureaucrat men, and the common man in all 19 province within Isan region.

The above is taken from the 2BKK website, SRT rail news section.

Khun Wisarut, wondering if you, or others, have any updated info on this? Which consultants were selected? Have they finished their report? What is the current post-election state politics of this project?

Obviously, the govt. has announced other 'mega-project' priorities and funds are limited but if this project is viable perhaps funding in a few years?

[White Nancy]

K Yappofloyd

The study has indeed started, but late as these things always are. It will be a while before any meaningful report comes out, as there currently 5 seperate proposed routes, and these all have to be considered.

There are also several build options which also need to go into the mix. Following these initial studies, the real work can take place on the feasability of the preferred options.

Sorry I can't be of more help at this point.

WN

[Wisarut]

Well, many of those top brasses iun SRTy said they would prefer the electrified meter gauge tracks with the specifications of the maximum speed at 160 kph :mad:

If people know that SRT top brasses have such a viewpoints, they will go AGAINST thir proposal and even ask for the maximum speed of at least 200 kph on the dedicated standard gauge tracks :( :mad:

[White Nancy]

Yes, those are two of the build options being looked at

[Yappofloyd]

Khun WN,

Thanks for the info. I was beginning to think that even with all the expertise and knowledge on the forum, that we were going to remain in the dark on this one. Delays are expected and I'll await the final feasibility study with much interest even from far away Sudan.

[Wisarut]

I just got the latest news about High Speed Railway ... they have 2 choice of routes (From Than Setthakij):

1) Makkasan - Suvannabhum - Bang Nam Priaw - Ongkharak -
Wiharn Daeng Banna - Pakchong (near Khao Yai) - Nakhon Ratchasima
Total Distance: 223 km

2) Makkasan - Suvannabhum - Chachognsao - Ongkharak -
Wiharn Daeng - Banna - Pakchong (near Khao Yai) - Nakhon Ratchasima
Total Distance: 247 km

The Specifications: 300-350 km Maximum speed with average speed
of 250 kph to ewnsure that those who live in Khorat could reach
Bangkok (Makkasan) within 1 Hour ... and could arrive into
Suvannabhum Airport in 50 minutes.

Wait unit the next 4 months before finalizing the plan.

[White Nancy]

K Wisarut,

Oh, that it were so simple!!

There are further route options being considered than those above.

As I said earlier, there are also 3 build options offering 160, 250 and 300-350 kph.

Results from studies expected in a couple of months.

I still have difficulty working out why a HSL to Korat is being considered and who will pay the premium fare that will inevitably be charged. From what I've seen, SRT struggle to maintain what they've got, as they are kept permenantly broke, so how will they cope with high speed track maintenence. The other alternative is private enterprise, but ridership figures would have to be very good and that just doesn't seem the case at this point. :confused:

Anyone got any thoughts?

[Wisarut]

Well, HST to Khorat is for thsoe well-to-do merchants in the Northeast as well as to attract more tourists to Isan according to Khorat governor's Plan due to the connection with Suvannabhum Airport :D

[Pas]

Thai engineering has an article (http://www.thaiengineering.com/article/civil/transportation/High_Speed_Train.asp) on the Eastern Seaboard high speed train feasibility study (from 1995 NESDB report):

The following map shows possible high speed train route from Bangkok to Rayong.
http://www.thaiengineering.com/article/civil/transportation/images/higt.JPG

[Pas]

The US Department Bureau of Security and Industry also mentioned the high speed train project:
http://www.bxa.doc.gov/DefenseIndustrialBasePrograms/OSIES/ExportMarketGuides/PacRim/thailand.pdf

In August 1994, the Thai Cabinet approved a High Speed Rail project to interconnectBangkok and Rayong province directing that the State Railway of Thailand (SRT) will leadproject development and for the private sector to play as large a role as possible. In September1994, the U.S. Trade and Development Agency (TDA) granted US $500,000 through the Officeof the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB) to the RTG to fund the costof a Feasibility Study. The NESDB hired a U.S. consultant, Wilbur Smith Associates, to conductthe study. Wilbur Smith submitted its final report on the project to NESDB in November 1995. In March 1996, the SRT Board of Directors agreed to spend US $1 billion right-of-way landacquisition, building the track, stations, a depot, a maintenance center, and other facilities. TheBoard also approved a proposal to invite the private sector to supply rolling stock and operate thesystem. Private participation value is estimated at US $440 million. The Bangkok-Rayong routewill be about 200 kilometers in length with and standard gauge track and train speeds at about160 kilometers per hour.

does anyone have more details on this feasibility study report?

[Wisarut]

Khun PAS,

You better goto AIT Centrallibraray so as to take a look at the High Speed TranProject (Huay Kwang Depot - Rayong) whycih is now defunct at the time being since MRTA has used that Huay Kwang Depot for MRTA Subway system :D

[Pas]

oh no.. I was really looking forward to catch a train to Pattaya! :(
I hope someone revive this plan and find a new site for train depot..
I hope.

[Wisarut]

Khun Pas,

before getting High Speed Train to pattaya, SRT Need to run the service to Ban Plutaluang 4 arrival trips and 4 departure trips every day FIRST ... NOT just 1 arrivaland 1 departure ONLY the weekday asit is right NOW. :mad:

[ncr]

before getting High Speed Train to pattaya, SRT Need to run the service to Ban Plutaluang 4 arrival trips and 4 departure trips every day FIRST ... NOT just 1 arrivaland 1 departure ONLY the weekday asit is right NOW. :mad:Oh, how right you are! :( Goddamn political agendas/games being played.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Trying to travel by train on this line is an almost hopeless endeavour under the current timetable. You are supposed to leave BKK on a weekday around 7 am.... :eek: Though I once managed to take a train from Pattaya back to Bangkok..... well, must have been back at a time when I was only a tourist in the LOS, and not working.

[Wisarut]

Well, SRT can extend the Commuter line which currently terminate at Chachoengsao to Pattaya - IF NOT Plu Ta Luang ... but ONLY after the double tracking to Laem Chabang to allow speedy cargo trains.

Plu Ta Luang badly Need feeder van to pick up those passengers at Downtown Sattahip instead of lettign the tuktuk to EXTORT the passenger for 100 Baht/trip to Downtown Sattahip. :mad:


Same canbe said to the lien to KabinBuri whcih deserve the extension to Aranyaprathet and Thai Stop .... but Need to have stringent security checkup to ensure that NO Khmer Beggars ridign the trains all the way
to Makkasan - May Need AK47 Shooting right at the passenger trains and then stabbing with Bayonets to ensure that No Khmer beggers inside staying alive. :p

[Pas]

I agree, they need to upgrade the existing SRT service, which would be most practical step. Kh Wisarut also make good point about modal integration of feeder buses and train.

I still hope to see this high speed train someday.
The obvious benefit would be the reduction in travel time and it would be more environmentally than building a 50km viaduct over the Gulf of Thailand !

[Wisarut]

SRT Starting High Spee Train to Khorat in 2006

Manager Daily - May31, 2005

SRT Director expects to start High Speed Train from BKK to Khorat (200 km) in 2006 and ready to open the system in 2009 with the ticket price of about 200 Baht.

So far, SRT has hired Apsicon and Citech (the joint venture companies) to design High speed train route with aprice tag of 35 million Baht. The price tag for the construction of High Speed railway is 200 Million Baht/km (total 40 billion Baht for construction and antoehr 10-20 billion baht for high speed rolling stocks)


However, the extension of High Speed Train to the North and the South are under consideration. However, the section from Denchai to Chiang Mai has so many mountain to pass ... need TBM drilling to construct very long tunnels. Furthemore, the Southern route seems to have stabilized demands so
it may NOT be worthy to construct the Southern route.

Note: Expect the Burning Effigies if SRT refuses to construct the North-South High Speed Railway.

Note2: The rumour of corruption and collusionon this high spedd rail project seems to be erupted even before startign the project due to the sense of paranoid.

Note3: Full article is here -> http://www.manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000072416

Note4: I SUSPECT that it must be a highspeed electrified meter gauge with the maximum speed of 160 kph since the construction cost is JUSTabout
200 Million Baht/km -> too low for double tracked highspeed on standard gauge but very fair price for the doubel tracked highpeed on meter gauge

[Wisarut]

NOPE, the existing double track lines and even the rehab lines could
carry the locos with axle load of 20 metric tons with the maximum
speed to 120 kph.

However HST has the minimum requirement of 160 kph max speed ...
so installing 25 KV power line and substation alone are NOT adequate
at all ... The radius of curve must be at least 3000 meter with the max
gradient at 10 mill .... NOT that sharp curve of 100-200 meter radius
with the gradient of 24 mills the section from Kaeng Khoi to Pak Chong
[the most troublesome section of all SRT railway network ...even worse
the section from Mae Tan Noy to Khon Tanhaslesss problem due to
wider curve radius despite of 26 mill gradient]

Furthermore , the section form Chachongsao to Khorat via Nakhon Nayok
and Pakchong is the NEW line ... NOT those existing Kaeng Khoi - Klong 19 - Chachongsao line which has been reserved for heavy cargo trains to
Laem Chabang. This section from Laem Chabang to Kaeng Khoi has been aimed for double tracking for cargo trains and the introduction of the new commuter linesto pick up those who live in Ongkahrak, Banna, Wiharn Daeng
and Bu yai .... many of hte have yearned for the commtuer trafficsthough.

Even more stiil, the busy traffic between Lad Krabang ICD and Laem Chabang has ruled out any attempt to rehab the line into high speed railway quality. Better build the parallel line from LadKrabang Station to Chachongsao as the extension of Airport Express and then transform them into HST to Khorat is the ultimate goal for BKK - Khorat HST though.

[White Nancy]

I was sent the article on the BKK-Korat HSL and found it VERY intersting as the feasibility study is only at the halfway point. Obviously someone is jumping the gun and making huge assumptions.

Watch this space..............

[Yappofloyd]

SRT Starting High Spee Train to Khorat in 2006

Manager Daily - May31, 2005

SRT Director expects to start High Speed Train from BKK to Khorat (200 km) in 2006 and ready to open the system in 2009 with the ticket price of about 200 Baht.

So far, SRT has hired Apsicon and Citech (the joint venture companies) to design High speed train route with aprice tag of 35 million Baht. The price tag for the construction of High Speed railway is 200 Million Baht/km (total 40 billion Baht for construction and antoehr 10-20 billion baht for high speed rolling stocks)


However, the extension of High Speed Train to the North and the South are under consideration. However, the section from Denchai to Chiang Mai has so many mountain to pass ... need TBM drilling to construct very long tunnels. Furthemore, the Southern route seems to have stabilized demands so
it may NOT be worthy to construct the Southern route.

Note: Expect the Burning Effigies if SRT refuses to construct the North-South High Speed Railway.

Note2: The rumour of corruption and collusionon this high spedd rail project seems to be erupted even before startign the project due to the sense of paranoid.

Note3: Full article is here -> http://www.manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9480000072416

Note4: I SUSPECT that it must be a highspeed electrified meter gauge with the maximum speed of 160 kph since the construction cost is JUSTabout
200 Million Baht/km -> too low for double tracked highspeed on standard gauge but very fair price for the doubel tracked highpeed on meter gauge

Khun White Nancy,

I noticed your "watch this space" comment on the other thread but in relation to your earlier posting on 12 April you mention that the studies will be finished in a couple of months. However, the Manager Dailt article above, posted by Wisarut, seems to be prempting the studies (I assume the price tag is 35 billion NOT million) given the statements (?) by the SRT Director.

When exactly is the study to be completed? Are you aware if there is a plan to conduct a public consultation process after the release of the study?

[White Nancy]

K. Yappofloyd,

The final report is due to SRT towards the middle of July.

As this is still at feasability study stage, it's probably a bit early for consultation, although I've not heard if this will, or will not, take place.

I was however, a bit surprised to see dates, fares and timescales published.

[White Nancy]

Well, back on a plane the day after tomorrow to sunny Bangkok to complete my portion of the BKK - Korat feasibility study.

I'll be sorry when this is done, as I am not sure when I'll be back out again. I have really enjoyed my time in Thailand, despite the long hours and the heat! The friendliness of the people and the sights of Thailand (oh, and the Singha :) ) have more than compensated.

If this project goes ahead, I hope to be spending considerably more time out there. At least I can afford for my wife to go shopping in Bangkok, something that was a little harder to bear in Copenhagen! I'm also trying to persuade my company that they need a dedicated rail resource (me) in Asia. Well, you can't blame me for trying.

As soon as I have some news that cannot be considered confidential, I'll post what I can.

[Wisarut]

Well give me that TopSecret data so Ican make an assessment from who you got to compare with what I got :D

[Yappofloyd]

Well, back on a plane the day after tomorrow to sunny Bangkok to complete my portion of the BKK - Korat feasibility study.
As soon as I have some news that cannot be considered confidential, I'll post what I can.
Khun WN, thanks for the updates .
Will be interesting to see what spin is put on the feasability study when the details are announced in mid or late July.

[Wisarut]

Khun Yappofloyd,

You better attain the serminar on Megaproject for Khorat on Wednesday June 29, 2005 at Than Setthakij Building (near Hor Wang School, VIbahvadee Highway side) so you could see the SRT plan for the High Speed train from BKK to Khorat :p ;) :D

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Wisarut (AKA Transport Minister),

Thanks for the tip!

I'll try to get there but I may have to 'borrow' the bosses lear jet to fly there and back before anyone notices that I am absent. Of course it may just be easier to catch the new imaginary Darfur to BKK super high speed maglev line!

Perhaps I'll be lucky and a rot fai fan will go and post some info (big hint) ;)

[White Nancy]

I better get one of my Thai colleauges to go to this so I'll know what I should be putting in the feasibility report!!! :confused:

[Wisarut]

Bad News, That serminar is held at Khortat, Not in Bangkok! :(

Wel, we better wait until ThanSetthakoijk has published the results from serminar ...

[Wisarut]

4 Choices for High Speed Train Route - BKK - Khorat
Than Setthakij - July 7, 2005

Mr Somsak Yangpreeda - SRT Chief Construction Engineer - told the press that after the cabinate
has asked SRT about the studies onthe High Speed Train on March 29, 2005 so as to cut down the trave time from more than 2-3 hour to 90 Minutes or less, the final result would come up by the end of August 2005.


There are 4 routes to be chosen such as:

1) The New tracks parallel with the existing Northern and Northeastern line up to Thanonchira Junction [Khorat Station for Highspeed train with downtown Nakhon Ratchasima] - 250 km
with a price tag of 119.352 billion Baht

2) The new track parallel with the existing Eastern Railway, Kaeng Khoi - Klong 19 bypass and Northeastern line - up to Thanonchira Junction - 293 km with a price tag of 127.137 billion Baht

3) Bangsue - Bang Pa In - New Shortcut to Kaeng Khoi - Klong 19 Bypass - New Motorway [Bang Pa In - Khorat] - Thanon Chira route - 254 km with a price tag of 110.183 billion Baht

4) Makkasan - Lad Krabang - New route to Rangsit Klong 14 (Ongkharak) - Banna - Kaeng Khoi - New Motorway [Bang Pa In - Khorat] - Thanon Chira route - 276 km with a price tag of 118.077 billion Baht

Note: I just wonder if SRT has taken the land acquisition for the nw route outside the existing SRT land including the lnadfor Bang Pa In - Khorat Motorway, Lad Krabang - Ongkharak - Banna at all?

[jpatokal]

New Motorway [Bang Pa In - Khorat]
What's this? :confused:

[Wisarut]

In addition to High Speed train to Khorath, The governemtn wants a new motorway from Bang Pa in to Khorat as well ... That's all

[Tom]

According to the 'Intercity Motorways Program 2004-2016' this is route number 6 with 206km length and a cost of THB 25,800 Mil. To be constructed 2007-2011.

[Wisarut]

Tom, Please show me the map of Motorway route No. 6 though :D

[Tom]

According to what I've read the FS and EIA studies have been completed. So there must be a map of the proposed route(s?) somewhere...

But guess the whole plan of having 900-1000km of Access-controlled Motorways by 2016 is a little bit too ambitious. This should be all financed by collecting toll from the users and taking into account the good quality of the existing highway network I very much doubt there will be enough money allocated (and ploitical will) to finish this plan on time. Although it would be a great safety improvement to have e.g the Bangkok - Khorat route as a motorway

[Wisarut]

Take alook at the mapof 4 proposed High Speed train to Khorat here:

http://www.rotfaithai.com/files/highspeedroute1.jpg

[Tom]

Any chance to get that in a higher resolution?

[Wisarut]

I'll askKhun Ron to post better resolution (1.45 MB) scanned map later

[White Nancy]

Just to let you all know. The final feasibility study report into the BKK-Korat HSR line has been submitted to SRT. I got home to the UK yesterday.

I don't know when an announcement will be made, as they have some thinking to do :confused: . I'll try to answer any specific questions that you may have.

[ncr]

I'll askKhun Ron to post better resolution (1.45 MB) scanned map laterWhatever happened to that map? Would be really interesting to see! (The low-res version isn't that useful.)

[jpatokal]

I don't know when an announcement will be made, as they have some thinking to do :confused: . I'll try to answer any specific questions that you may have.
So... can you mail us the whole report in advance? :D But if not, can you say which route was considered the most feasible and the rationale why?

[jpatokal]

So a well-informed source whispered the following in my ear:

The preferred option is #1 on the Rotfaithai (http://www.rotfaithai.com/files/highspeedroute1.jpg) map. This shares SRT alignment most of the way to Korat from Bang Sue station apart from where curves need to be straightened out. There is the need for some tunnelling as SRT wish to have freight trains running alongside the new line so gradients have to be minimised.

The trains will operate at a maximum speed of 200kph on standard gauge alignment, although should the project go ahead, it is recommended that the track is laid to 300kph standards. The intention is to use DMU's initially to save the capital cost of electrification, with the option to retrofit overhead line equipment at a later stage.

Most of the various criteria used e.g build cost, land take and passenger numbersfor line selection put Option 1 ahead of the others. Incidently, all the line selection criteria were carried out by Thai consultants.

Now to start speculating when if ever this will happen.

[Yappofloyd]

This project still seems to be moving ahead. I thought that the final route was going to be selcted soon? Khun White Nancy, do you know when exactly?
TRANSPORT: Hi-speed train needs Bt115.9 bn (August 27, 2005)
Watcharapong Thongrung, The Nation, Khon Kaen
Plans stay, private investors sought. The Transport Ministry will early next month receive a detailed investment plan for the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima high-speed train service costing Bt115.9 billion, apparently showing the government’s commitment to continuing with the Bt1.7 trillion worth of mega-projects amid calls for downsizing the plans.

The diesel-powered train’s speed will cruise at 200 km per hour and will take an estimated 1.45 hours from Bangkok to Nakhon Ratchasima. Planned to commence operations in 2010, the train is designed to transport 1,200 passengers per hour on average. Chitsanti Dhanasobhon, governor of the State Railway of Thailand, yesterday announced the train project during a transport conference. “We’ll let private parties participate in the investment to reduce the state’s burden,” he said.

The tab for the train includes Bt2.2 billion for design, Bt7 billion in pre-construction expenses, Bt68.9 billion in construction costs, Bt18.9 billion for electrical and machinery systems, Bt15 billion to buy carriages, Bt2.5 billion for supplies and training, and Bt1.2 billion for testing. The internal rate of return is estimated at 5.4 per cent. The high-speed train is part of the national logistics network development plan, meant to facilitate better transport of passenger and goods. Phumtham Wechayachai, deputy transport minister and chairman of the conference, said the ministry is gathering information from all stakeholder agencies before forwarding it to Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, probably next month. “After the investment is endorsed by the Cabinet, the ministry is ready to implement the plans,” he said.

Aside from the high-speed train, there are roughly 240 infrastructure and logistics projects earmarked for the Northeast, which will cover a combined length of 695 kilometres and require an investment of Bt45.9 billion. The government has come under pressure for its massive investment budget which could threaten the country’s financial health at a time when national savings are low and imports high. On Thursday, Pichit Akrathit, a member of the Mass Transit Committee, said the committee would soon submit a report to Thaksin recommending that the government reduce the planned number of mass transit rail routes in Bangkok to three from seven, due to financial constraints.

Kamroblak Suraswadi, director of the Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning Office, yesterday insisted that the office would go ahead with the seven routes as earlier approved by the Cabinet. “We haven’t revised the number of routes as the investment in all of them has been thoroughly studied in terms of economic value, energy savings and network connections,” Kamroblak said. Pichit said only three routes have economic value, while potential returns on the other routes are too low to attract participation from private investor. That would put a huge burden on the national purse.

Kamroblak countered that before coming up with the routes, all related agencies had been sounded out for their opinions, including the Finance Ministry, the Transport Ministry and the National Economic and Social Development Board. “We cannot make a U-turn just because of the suggestion of a single man,” he said. He insisted that for maximum value, all routes must be built. Only that would attract more people to use the mass transport mode, which will save energy.

[Wisarut]

Latest news on High Speed Train to Khorat
Than Setthakij - Sept 15-17, 2005

SRTis goign to submit the study results on BKK - Khorat High Speed train to SRT board
in october 2005and then submit the result to the cabinate by the end of 2005 so SRT
coudl start teh new bit in march 2006.

SRT decided to choose Route 1 (Bangsue - Ban Phachi - Khorat) because NO need for
land exappropriation. SRT woudl come up with turnkey financial scheme in the same
way as Suvannabhum Airport Link ... while MOTCwould liek to have prive concession on
this High Speed train.

Now, SRT Duputy Governor said that Epsilon and Sitech are going to come upwith the study
results on BKK - Khorat High Speed train by end of Sept 2005 to be submitted to SRT Board by
the end of October 2005 to finalize the route... After SRT Board approval, cabinate apporval
for financing the project is the nextand theTOR for the contractors woudl follow, ready
for bidding by the end of March 2006.

The consultant said the best route is Route 1 (Bangsue - Bang Phachi Thanon Jira Junction [Khorat]) which is the shortest route (250 km) with lowest cost (119.352 billion Baht for DMU
or 129.352 billion Baht for EMUs) and no need for land exappropriation due to the fact that
it is within SRT land ... The connection with Suvannabum can be done by the extension
of Suvannabhum Airport Link from Phyathai to Bangsue and Donmuang. There is also
ready market at Bangsue, Donmuang, Ayutthaya, and Khorat so it is the best route indeed.

The 2nd option is Makkasan - Chachongsao - Klong 19 - Kaeng Khoi -Khorat -> 293 km
This has dimmer perspective after the proposed new city at Banna has been canceled.
The price tag is 127.137 billion Baht for DMU or 137.137 billion Baht for EMUs.


The 3rd option is Bang Sue - Bang Pa In - 6th Motorway to Banna - Ongkharak - Kaeng Khoi -Khorat -> 254 km. This has dimmer perspective after the proposed new city at Banna has been canceled and the new motorway to Khorat has not been a reality yet.
The price tag is 110.183 billion Baht for DMU or 120.183 billion Baht for EMUs. ... Cheaper is
not the wiser deal sicne too few potential passengers alogn that route.


The 4th option is Makkasan - Lad Krabang - Klong 14 - 6th Motorway (Bang Pa In - khorat) -
Banna -Kaeng Khoi - Khorat (276 km). This has dimmer perspective after the proposed
new city at Banna has been canceled and the new motorway to Khorat has not been a reality yet.
The price tag is 118.077 billion Baht for DMU or 128.183 billion Baht for EMUs. ... Cheaper is
not the wiser deal sicne too few potential passengers alogn that route.

The construction scheme willbe the same as Suvannabhum Airport Link, turnkey finance project
... the private sector invest first and publicwould pay back later. The concession wit
private section has to compiled with the Joint Venture Act of BE 2535 though.

However, MOTC minister sais he prefers Private concession despite of the fact that the private sector has to pass the Joint venture Act. The govermnet would think either 80% Public : 20% Private with revenue sharing as Subway or 100% private as BTS.

Note: Ai Pheng has his own hidden agenda when he comes to make anopinion like that!

[GWR]

Thanks to http://www.rotfaithai.com :-

http://www.rotfaithai.com/files/highspeedroute1.jpg

And Thanks also to Khun Wisaruth for his rundown on the various route options:-

http://www.angkor.com/2bangkok/2bangkok/forum/showpost.php?p=6263&postcount=2

[White Nancy]

You could have had all that weeks ago but for a slight error! :confused:

[Yappofloyd]

Actually, this map was also posted a long time ago in early July by Khun Wisarut on the skyscraper forum thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=218905&page=4&pp=20) (see post #69)

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Wisarut or anyone, is there any update on the final route selection arising from the feasibility study? Is this project going anywhere?

[Yappofloyd]

Is this yet another project fallen into the abyss of confusion and going nowhere fast? Was there even a decision on the final preferred route? Is anybody able to provide some update......

[Wisarut]

According to the Information Disclosed in Rotfai Samphan (a free magazine published by PR Dept of SRT), the new High Speed train would be

1) DMU of Standard gauge to avoid Costly electrification ... whcih require joint venture with foreign contractors which SRT has openly strong HOSTILITY. :eek:

2) 250 kph Max Speed :p

3)The route will go from Bangsue to Thanon Jira Junction (the station in
downtown Nakhon Ratchasima) ... most follow the current SRt Norhtern and Northeastern track ... except that troublesome Kaeng Khoi - Pakchong ... with need TMB Drillign machines leased from other firms.

4) Stops at the following stations.
4.1) Bangsue
4.2) Ayutthaya
4.3) Sara Buri
4.4) Khorat (the new name for Thanon Jira Junction)

[Wisarut]

Furthermore, Ai Pheng is askign SRT to study on BKK - Chiang Mai High Speed train (about 751 km) to Please the Great Leader :p ;) :D :eek:

For this one, it requires Massive Tunneling to Conquere Khun Tan as well as other mountainous areas from Sila At to Chiang Mai.

[Wisarut]

It's the vested interest from our Great leader who has just shifted from Telecom Business to Enegy Business, so he applied his own power via Ai Pheng on SRT to come with High Speed DMU (either High Speed Diesel or BioDiesel) or High Speed NGV ..... Clear and Simple!


Too bad, Now EGAT Power Generators as well as IPP are at the peak of power production, Need at least 10 Power Plant of 1 Gigawatt :eek:

[Yappofloyd]

Khun Wisarut,

Thanks for the update. Good to know that this hasn't fallen completely apart. However, DMU instead of EMU doen't make long term sense.

So any idea of when final approval may be given? Or will there still be a lot of politicing on this way and more delays?

[Wisarut]

Final approcval will become areality when they have successfuilly behind the scene deal with JBIC and TEMASEK ;) :D :p

[Yappofloyd]

I know I probably sound like a broken record, and that nothing is happening on the Nat Govt front, but has there any progress on this project especially on the Korat town hall or Provincial side?

[ncr]

I suspect this project is dead.....?

[GWR]

Samak hopes to build high-speed trains

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said Friday that his government would like to build high-speed trains capable of running at 120 kilometres per hour or 200 kmph.

He was speaking at a seminar organized by the National Economic and Social Development Board on the visions for Thailand for 2027.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30080668

[Yappofloyd]

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said Friday that his government would like to build high-speed trains capable of running at 120 kilometres per hour or 200 kmph.


Since when did 120 kmph become high speed????

[von Hirschhorn]

The perfect example from someone who lives with his head in the clouds. Dream on boy, there’re will be a day the full dimension become visible and no more escape in promising a railway heaven on earth. Decade after decade neglecting or better spoken preserving the way it is, is almost impossible to overhaul and bring it to an updated standard right away. Financial means are the burden unless one is willing to shift a lot of other investment money. In other words make choices. I am afraid the car lobby as a whole has far more influence than the ones who still stick to the railways. Lets be frank, a car owner needs solid ground to move his wheels around. A lot of concrete and certainly not two thin stripes of metal fastened on a piece of wood, something for someone more familiar with the thing, is called rail.

And by the way even 200 km is speed but no high speed, I concider 250 a good start, 350 will be wise.

[Wisarut]

The perfect example from someone who lives with his head in the clouds. Dream on boy, there’re will be a day the full dimension become visible and no more escape in promising a railway heaven on earth. Decade after decade neglecting or better spoken preserving the way it is, is almost impossible to overhaul and bring it to an updated standard right away. Financial means are the burden unless one is willing to shift a lot of other investment money. In other words make choices. I am afraid the car lobby as a whole has far more influence than the ones who still stick to the railways. Lets be frank, a car owner needs solid ground to move his wheels around. A lot of concrete and certainly not two thin stripes of metal fastened on a piece of wood, something for someone more familiar with the thing, is called rail.

And by the way even 200 km is speed but no high speed, I concider 250 a good start, 350 will be wise.

Khun Bob, Totally agree with you for this point.

Well, it seems to me that AI Samak along with his cronies keep spinning the public's heads to such extend that they forget what are they talking about ...

120 kph Max speed hass already been achieved on level section... The next thing to be done is to maintain such relatively high speed on hill sectons with sharp curve and steep grade (Kaeng Khoi - Pakchong, Ban Dan - Denchai, Mae Tan Noy - Khun Tan, Bang Saphan Yai - Chumporn, and Thung SOng Khao Chum Thong) .... alogn with massive double tracking and electrificatons ...

After BKK Suburb areas (Nakhon pathom, Ayutthaya, Chachongsao, Kaegn Khoi, Rajburi or so) - Khorat should be the next on the line ... At least, Kaeng Khoi- pakchong, Khorat to Pakchong, Khorat - Khon kaen, and Khorat - Buriram should get doubel tracking alogn with more DMUs for local trains.

For the case of Hat Yai, revitalize Hat Yai - Songkla line is a must ... in addition to new local train network ...
There are already aircon van services from Trang to Hat Yai at the price of 100 Baht anf Trang to Thugn Song at the price of 70 baht in addition to the existing 50 Baht aircon bus from Trang to Phatthalung... This implied that the existing local trains that pass Hat Yai are not enough to satisfy the passenger demands.

//---------------------------------------------------------------------

If they REALLY want to realize High Speed train project Why don't they secure the loan to back up the project at the first place? Why don't they encourage more saving as collateral for this project?

Are our savings alogn with tax maney are for continuing vote buyings to those buffaloes (Thai term for jackaxxxes) for perpetuating your power without doing any good things for people?

[GWR]

Khun Bob, Totally agree with you for this point.
..........

For the case of Hat Yai, revitalize Hat Yai - Songkla line is a must ... in addition to new local train network ...
There are already aircon van services from Trang to Hat Yai at the price of 100 Baht anf Trang to Thugn Song at the price of 70 baht in addition to the existing 50 Baht aircon bus from Trang to Phatthalung... This implied that the existing local trains that pass Hat Yai are not enough to satisfy the passenger demands.

..........

Khun Wiz! Do you have any recent project plans for the above? I always keep one eye open for new info on this, but there hasn't been any for a long time.

[Wisarut]

Khun Wiz! Do you have any recent project plans for the above? I always keep one eye open for new info on this, but there hasn't been any for a long time.

Not at the time beign ...

However, local slum dwellers began tyo steal the steel rails to the junk yards dealers opn GHat Yai Song Kla line - if the trask has nto been covered by asphant or concrte reinforce.